Illumina Major Downgrade Part 2

[Theuser789]

Infinte's Null space is stated to be infinte in size by both Eggman and Sonic so that's not really a good comparassion, also in Shuffle dimension and world always mean universe in as well as the oficial adaptation of Shuffle in Archie aproved by Sega also has the dreams being universes.

TBH most of the staff that agreed aside you, Cal and Matt don't really participate in Sonic discussions so they aren't that knowledgeable on the franchises, meanwhile alot of regular user who are knowledgeable and participares in multiple Sonic related discussions are against the downgrade.

I would have liked at least a counter argument for my last POST before the edit ir a warning

 

[Darkmon_cns]

You can't really criticize the stuff for having not participated in the thread well claiming more people backed your side, most of those people just said "I agree with shadow" and didn't comment again.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Infinite's Null Space wasn't actually proven to be infinite in size, and Archie comics is a completely different continuity that should be permanently dropped when comparing to Game Sonic. The actual game lacks any proof of any individual dreams being universes, so we cannot assume they are universes. Maginary World is the only one that is confirmed, but it's also the one that's far bigger than every other dream put together.

Matt is actually one of the biggest Sonic experts here, he just doesn't have enough time or energy to participate here which is why other staff members had to step in. Everlasting is also one of the most knowledgeable Sonic experts so between contacting him alongside Cal, he also approves of the downgrades. Dark649 said he was neutral since he's not familiar with Sonic Shuffle, but I'm sure he trusts Matt and Everlasting's sense of judgment.

Also, it isn't worth arguing in endless circles or deliberately wasting the time or energy of both staff and non staff. And I we did give counter arguments that you're apparently not even reading nor were the details that were actually stated by the canonical index being taken accounted for on the those opposing the downgrade's side.

Also, our goal is to make each verse having accurate statistics ratings. We don't want bad blood between fan bases; however, we are well aware that there are people who are deliberately going to try and start that anyway. So we're also trying to keep the site drama free on top of everything here.

 

[Theuser789]

You can't really criticize the stuff for having not participated in the thread well claiming more people backed your side, most of those people just said "I agree with shadow" and didn't comment again.

I was saying Sonic threads in general, not just this one, and Zamasu for a long time was the only one arguing in favor of the downgrade.

 

[The_Smashor]

Well, you know what, this whole thing was great, but I have other things to do. I'm just gonna go downgrade 2-B Mario now. Good luck not going insane, everyone

 

[Theuser789]

Infinte's Null space is stated to be infinte in all versions of Forces so what you are saying is wrong about that.

That was a adaptation that even told you to play the game to know the rest of the story, It wasn't part of the main continuity, even Ian Flynn says that those are canon to the games:"The Sonic Stadium: Are these stories basically meant to take place in the game canon?

Ian Flynn: More or less, but it varies from project to project. The "Sonic and the Black Knight" tie-in was almost shot-for-shot, word-for-word the opening sequence so it's obviously the same thing. "Sonic Colors" will be a little more liberal, but it's still true to the source, so you can take it as a retelling or a synopsis

And I said that those were knowledgeable though, I was talking about the rest

I read the guide, one of my main arguments are in it, you are the one that keeps ading assumptions and headcanon in it, like that Marginary World is way bigger than the rest( that would be like saying that the stars at night are smaller than the Earth because we see like that from here) or it is the only universe even though I proved many times that doesn't that with multiple comparassions

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ian Flynn isn't word of God and he's admitted that not even he knows the full canonicity of the games. It's been brought up before and rejected. We will not be merging Game Sonic or Archie Sonic's canonicity; not now or ever. In fact, Illumina has two separate profiles for that reason. And if we are going to take account Archie comics for Illumina, then Sonic Shuffle would just be non-canon.

And now, all dreams are literally inside the Maginary World; calling them entire universes is the same thing as calling Earth, the Sun, the Moon, or the Milky Way Galaxy Universes. So that is a backwards statement right there. And the actual headcanon is calling the individual dreams universes.

 

[Theuser789]

Ian Flynn is the writer though, How would he not be word of god? and I am not talking about merging Sonic and Archie, stop putting words in my mouth, I was talking about the adaptations, for example both Team Sonic Racing and Sonic Forces have oficial, confirmed to be canon, comics adaptation.

And I already proved how they can all be in Marginary World and also be universes with multiple comparassions, they are pocket universes, that's why they are represented as projections on a screen, not as physical worlds or bubbles

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Look 789, if it makes you feel any better about the downgrade being applied I actually went through both threads and counted everyone that supported either side, the downgrade won the popular vote 17 to 14

 

[Darkmon_cns]

17 For: Zamasu chan, cal,somebodydata,Wokistan, DarkDragonMedeus,MicDanel,HammerStrikes219, Matthew Scroeder,DMB 1 (said was leaning towards cal's agument), AKM sama, Triforce Power1, Ercosore, Darkmon cns, JJSliderman, 22Easy, Antvasima


14 Against: shake,shadow, the smasher,inverted tempest, ED INFINITUM, Spinoirr, Theuser789, VioletVoid100,Oblivion Lighting,Spinoirr, Jjmil3827, Neon Battle bind, Sadistic Sleuth, Glaceon Gamez471, The Axiom of Virgo, generic stickman

 

[Theuser789]

Welp, R.I.P Illumina 2-B

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ian Flynn would only know much about the Archie Comics; he's an Archie Comics writer and not a Sega representative. He's more so just a big fan of the games, he doesn't have ownership of the game's canonicity and wouldn't know everything about the games.

Proving that they "Could be" doesn't prove they 100% are universes. Once again, only Maginary World is confirmed to be a Universe and none of the other worlds it contains. The others only have showings of pocket realities.

Just because Pocket Realities can be universes doesn't mean pocket realities are automatically assumed to be universes.

 

[Genericstickman]

Pocket realities can be universes you know

 

[Theuser789]

Sega talks directely with Flynn and tell what's allowed and what isn't, he even tells in his Bumblekast what Sega tells him, he even mentions that in the interview were he confirms the adaptations as canon:http://info.sonicretro.org/Ian_Flynn_interview_by_Sonic_Stadium_(November_7,_2010)

They have been refered to worlds and dimension when they always refered to universe in this game, and dimension has always refered to universe in this franchise

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Sonic forces, Tails, 'your that sonic from another dimension' clasic sonic is established as from the past in generations, they even make a generations joke later in the moi- game, later in the game.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He literally said zero things about Sonic Shuffle in that interview. And he basically said his opinion on the canonicity is up to the reader. Which kind of goes to show that he's not the one to ask regarding Game Sonic's lore or canonicity. The Archie Adaptations are not canon to the games. And again this is all based on assumptions regarding the definition of "Dimensions" or "Worlds". Dimension hasn't always meant entire universe and in Generation it once simply meant time period.

 

[Theuser789]

Izuka confirmed in the latest Q&A that Classic Sonic was from another universe, so Tails statment still counts

 

[Theuser789]

He said about game adaptations in general.

Wrong, he says that it's up to the reader to decide If they all take place in the same zone, he does confirm that they follow game canon: "The Sonic Stadium: Are these stories basically meant to take place in the game canon?

Ian Flynn: More or less, but it varies from project to project. The "Sonic and the Black Knight" tie-in was almost shot-for-shot, word-for-word the opening sequence so it's obviously the same thing. "Sonic Colors" will be a little more liberal, but it's still true to the source, so you can take it as a retelling or a synopsis"

In Sonic Shuffle those terms have only refered to universe, so it's not really a assumption

In Generations the word dimension isn't even used

When Classic Sonic was confirmed to be from another dimension Zamasu even made a thread trying to upgrade the Time Eater to 2-C

Dimension always meant universe in game canon, even in Shuffle is used meaning universe