Goku vs Jotaro, but OP videogames version.

[Sir_Ovens]

Wouldn't blame him, the thread is hella long to read through.

 

[Akreious]

Okay so here's my thoughts: Goku's Shenron Mode>Jotaro. Why? Because Jotaro needs to punch stuff for his power to come in effect, Shenron Mode is capable of using reality warping at a ranged. It doesn't matter if Jotaro's more potent if Shenron Mode is way more versatile than "I have more potent reality warping but I can only use it to power null and warp stuff at an arm's punch range". Goku could also easily go into his own space and slow Jotaro down to the point that he could IT behind and blast, or he can begin with sealing which he did ASAP against Omega Shenron.

Edit: Also, the time stop resistance in JoJo is actually fairly disappointing. I have my doubts on Jotaro's time stop being able to effect Goku here. Also, range =/= potency, or else a pistol is vastly Superior to a shotgun.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Okay so here's my thoughts: Goku's Shenron Mode>Jotaro. Why? Because Jotaro needs to punch stuff for his power to come in effect, Shenron Mode is capable of using reality warping at a ranged. It doesn't matter if Jotaro's more potent if Shenron Mode is way more versatile than "I have more potent reality warping but I can only use it to power null and warp stuff at an arm's punch range". Goku could also easily go into his own space and slow Jotaro down to the point that he could IT behind and blast, or he can begin with sealing which he did ASAP against Omega Shenron.

This is good and all, but does he do this in character right off the bat?

 

[Akreious]

In character, he seals off the bat. That's what I know for absolute sure. You'll have to ask about other knowledgeable for confirmation for the other abilities. And I know he uses his space thing quite frequently.

 

[SirBrownBear]

So let me get this straight, because he did it with a single character he knew from past events, and chose sealing specifically because of said enemy's make up, you say he'll always open with it, regardless of who he's fighting?

 

[HST_Master]

@Brown https://m.imgur.com/gallery/uekb2

Towa stopping time across the multiverse

That's obviously not the case if he's continuosly powered up acordingly, alongside the fact SP is visible(Stands are visible for the same reason Shinigami from bleach are) Jotaro does not look normal

So him hitting himself or yelling "Star Platinum!" isn't an indication of him doing something?

 

[Akreious]

He senses his opponents and if he knows they'll be a viable threat, he opens with his Hax and gives them no room to get an advantage unlike canon Goku. This Goku simply realized And knew that Omega Shenron was going to be a pain in the ass and therefore responded appropriately. It's called context my friend.

 

[SirBrownBear]

Ok, now where does this affect (or apparently not affect) Goku?

Except he's not, Stands don't work by "powering up". And SP might be visible, but to someone like Goku it's just another floating alien looking fighter, that. again, doesn't hit much harder than he did when he was a teenager, there's no immediate threat or energy/ki radaiting from SP or Jotaro that would make Goku max out immeditly to take them out instantly.

Why would he hit himself? The self buff thing was an assumption based a healing feat he did, he's never been shown to punch himself to make himself stronger. Timestop and other abilities works on a mental trigger, Dio and Jorato yelling out "the world" and "Star Platinum" is just for viewer fanfare, it's not required to a activate.

https://youtu.be/QuTi6zYYuig?t=4m19s

https://youtu.be/skjIgOAGa7I?t=55s

 

[Akreious]

Lol at first I thought you were talking to me, so I made a huge paragraph talking about basically nothing and in huge confusion before scrolling up. Rip 5 minutes

 

[HST_Master]

If that's broken all time stops, Goku and co are then sent by Chronoa

You'ee reasoning for Goku not to even use a decent amoumt of his stremgth was that he's fighting for fun, then after its revealed hes more pragmatic you still say hes not going to power up because SP does not have an aura

>Demigra did not have an Aura and Goku fought him accordingly

>Gravy had no aura and Goku fought him accordingly

And the fact he has no energy to ssnse means Goku is going to be on guard EVEN MORE and try to end the fight quicker before Jotaro can pull something

Then that takes away the only legit counter argument Jotaro had

Yelling an attack in general is most of the time not a requirememt(Such as Naruto using rasengan or Goku just blasting Kamehameha without the chant) And to boot timestop would not work on him anyway so it's irrelevant whether he yells it or not

 

[Marco_Shark]

lol Jotaro voters ran out of argument or were debunked

 

[Akreious]

Yeah, that's actually true. Since this Goku is WAAAY more cautious, he'd definitely be wary in case someone's suppresses their power in order to catch him off guard. They abused power lowering in Namek saga so they become undetectable, so Xeno Goku with his naturally more cautious nature will definitely still be cautious and not trust someone's he's fighting who has a low power.

 

[SirBrownBear]

He senses his opponents and if he knows they'll be a viable threat, he opens with his Hax and gives them no room to get an advantage unlike canon Goku. This Goku simply realized And knew that Omega Shenron was going to be a pain in the ass and therefore responded appropriately. It's called context my friend.

Probably should have asked this from the start as there seems to be a lot of last second "feat" mentions, but where's your source for this even happening?

Also if this is a goku that goes through time to refight various old enemies, then it stands to reason that he already knows Omega from a past fight, which would prompt him to try and seal him away quickly considering he's comprised of corrupted dragonballs, He wouldn't have that kind of forethought or knowledge of Jotaro, nor sense any kind of threating displays of power or energy to force him to break out a show stopper like that off the bat, he's just a teen with a floating alien looking thing next to him, something Goku isn't exactly a stranger to seeing. So why don't save the smug, smart aleck quips for when you present a credible arguement, and not baseless "I think he'd do this just cause" assumptions.

 

[Akreious]

It's literally a matter of what you'd think. Lowering your power level to catch an opponent off guard is nothing new in DB, so why would you assume a more cautious Goku would still drop his guard to a person he's fighting? And he certainly didn't pull any punches against opponents who seemed weaker just because they didn't have an aura or has a lower power level. I'm sorry if I seemed rude but where's your source that Goku would suddenly start behaving like Canon Goku, lowering his level just because his opponent is lower in terms of power? MY source is what I've observed, you can go out and look for the fights themselves to judge for yourself. And my "last second feats" are because I entered this thread literally an hour ago. Not much time to go put up my thoughts/arguments earlier in the thread.

 

[SirBrownBear]

If that's broken all time stops, Goku and co are then sent by Chronoa
You'ee reasoning for Goku not to even use a decent amoumt of his stremgth was that he's fighting for fun, then after its revealed hes more pragmatic you still say hes not going to power up because SP does not have an aura

>Demigra did not have an Aura and Goku fought him accordingly

>Gravy had no aura and Goku fought him accordingly

And the fact he has no energy to ssnse means Goku is going to be on guard EVEN MORE and try to end the fight quicker before Jotaro can pull something

Then that takes away the only legit counter argument Jotaro had

Yelling an attack in general is most of the time not a requirememt(Such as Naruto using rasengan or Goku just blasting Kamehameha without the chant) And to boot timestop would not work on him anyway so it's irrelevant whether he yells it or not

Ok, mind showing a clip or screenshot?

No, it wasn't, a few of you offhand mention some feats without anything to back it up, there's nothing for it on the page, and after looking through videos and wikis, nothing backs your or others claims of this apparently hyper alert, several steps ahead Goku.

Maybe they didn't have a firey aura, but they did have a crapton of ki/energy. And there's just a little bit of a big difference between a multiversal threat dripping with energy and an intimidating appearence, and a teenager with/or without his floating ghost. As far as that verse is aware, Jotaro's just another Mr Satan type, a strong human with no energy/ki proficiency .

 

[HST_Master]

That's already context enough to be on guard

>Some kid with an alien dude behind him with no energy isn't normal even for him

>Again Goku fights the time breakers on the regular

┬ÀDemigra

┬ÀGravy

┬ÀTowa

┬ÀMira

┬ÀPutine

┬ÀShroom

┬ÀChamel

┬ÀMechikabura

Aren't old enemies he's fought before

And even then the Dark Dragon Balls embeded in his past enemies like Cell grant them Dark Evolutions which grants them new abilities and strength

So regardless of the enemy he's staying pragmatic

 

[Akreious]

This is a Goku that's seen more experience and battles than Super or GT Goku. He's faced many enemies that spring up surprises and special abilities he's never seen before. This is literally the best Goku out there. The argument that he isn't going to take this alien boy seriously isn't valid since I recall many younglings with super strength (SSJ Teen Gohan anyone? Toonforce Arale? Beat?)

 

[SirBrownBear]

I didn't say absolutly every enemy was a rematch, but I digres, This is starting to sound like a lot of "I think/well he should" those are assumptions, not facts. Where're your sources for this new and improved Goku?

 

[SirBrownBear]

MY source is what I've observed, you can go out and look for the fights themselves to judge for yourself.

That's not how a debate works, if you present a point and you're asked to back it up, YOU have to back it up, it's not my responcibility to fill in your blanks. And for the record I have looked it up, the wiki's had nothing and videos were nothing but player controlled actions, nothing clearly scripted, and nothing that reflects what's been stated.

 

[Akreious]

Exactly. That's why I said you'd have to draw your own conclusions. I drew my own conclusion in the fact that the few times we see Xeno Goku fight without input, he never held back and went immediately for sealing against an enemy to ensure that they don't become a bigger threat.

 

[HST_Master]

Correction it's Beat and the Kai avatar who are shown moving through stopped time, yet still extends to Xeno Goku

We're mentioning feats without back up? You're sitting here and claiming that Jotaro's timestop is universal in potency because of it's range and that Hits is garbage compared to it

So you're saying Goku would assume he's like Hercule even though he has Star Platinum hanging around......and again lowering your ki is not new

 

[HST_Master]

Also at the end of Extreme Butoden Goku wastes no time sealing Omega and his negative energy after his fight with Beerus

 

[SirBrownBear]

Exactly. That's why I said you'd have to draw your own conclusions. I drew my own conclusion in the fact that the few times we see Xeno Goku fight without input, he never held back and went immediately for sealing against an enemy to ensure that they don't become a bigger threat.

Personal interpritation is not a credible arguement. If that were the case Goku is standard laser blaster tier.

 

[HST_Master]

Regardless I'm going to sleep, I'll rebuttal anything you have when I get up

 

[Akreious]

Well how else would you judge him? It's not personal interpretation, it's observation to the best of my abilities. I SEE that this Goku, without player input, went to seal Omega Shenron ASAP and very rarely drops his guard. Also, personal interpretation IS credible since in layman's terms, it means "argument". AKA what this whole thread is about. In the case where two people observes the same feat differently, it becomes more of a agree to disagree thing if those two can't find a compromise.

 

[Marco_Shark]

Yeah, people dont understand Jotaro gets stomped.


Whats the vote count anyways?

 

[Akreious]

No idea.

 

[SirBrownBear]

Correction it's Beat and the Kai avatar who are shown moving through stopped time, yet still extends to Xeno Goku
We're mentioning feats without back up? You're sitting here and claiming that Jotaro's timestop is universal in potency because of it's range and that Hits is garbage compared to it

So you're saying Goku would assume he's like Hercule even though he has Star Platinum hanging around......and again lowering your ki is not new

And your reason for assuming such?

What do you think range means in that instance? That he can extend his arm out and touch the edge of the universe? No, the point of a stand's range is to display how wide of a range their ability can effect. Standard SP and other close combat stands are restricted to a 2 meter range because, well they punch. Stands woth AOE effects like C-Moon are able to affect anything within it's range at once, like when it caused the prison it was in and everything else within a 3 kilometer range to have it's gravity inverted at a 90 degree angle. http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/C-Moo, and then you have stands with a universal Range, such as SP, The World, and Made In Heaven, the last of which uses the opposite of time stop and accelerates the time/gravity of the universe to infinity and resets the universe. http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Made_in_Heave

I'm sayng he wouldn't act with such caution or reservation with someone like that, he's never shown to do so. No one wants to post sources of this constantly on guard and high alert Goku, so i'm going off the standard In character Goku.

 

[Akreious]

What's "standard in-Character" Xeno Goku for you? Because frankly, I have not yet seen Xeno Goku dropping his guard nearly as much as canon Goku. AKA, he takes these fights seriously. And your argument could also be flipped backwards, Xeno Goku is distinctly NOT Canon Goku nor is he the same character anymore to canon or GT Goku. Where's your evidence that he doesn't display caution against potential enemies lowering their power level or hiding a special ability he doesn't know about?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Jotaro FRA.

 

[Marco_Shark]

Why tho? We have debunked all of pro-jojo votes.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

I read plenty of comments and decided to vote for Jojpinions.

Also,doesnt Hit skip time?In anime it says that he skips time and saves it for himself to create his dimension,not stops.

 

[Akreious]

Time skip and time stop are explicitly different powers Hit has, at least from the explanations given in other threads.

 

[SirBrownBear]

Again, I've looked, and nothing matches or shows what's been mentioned here, so either cite your sources, or drop the points, cause this is getting old.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@Akreious

Vados or someone said that Hit skips time and saves it for himself,not stops it.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

@SirBrownBear

What are you about?

 

[Akreious]

Why're you telling us that? We're both in the same boat for this. Same argument can be flipped for you, you haven't shown that this Goku has the same weakness as the canon one. Your argument is that Goku won't have the same cautiousness against Jotaro, and I contest that. But since we view the characters in such different ways, we can't agree. Neither of us has cited anything to back our arguments completely yet, and I'll do that in the morning (it's like 3 AM right now), but don't tell us to cite things and drop our points when you haven't cited or proved yours yet either. At least about Goku.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

goku wins this fra

 

[SirBrownBear]

Exactly, you contest it, in which case show your reasoning for doing so, my reasoning is that none of my findings through videos, the wikis, or the page here shows Xeno Goku's personality to be any different from what's shown in the manga/anime. You claim it to be different, yet refuse to show any evidence to back your claims, that doesn't prove your point. My not finding evidence and you refusing to show anything only backs my claim that there is no evidence at this point, but since you think that's your irrefutable checkmate, fine, i'll do your work for you, i'll even overshoot and check xenoverse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMaL60uExns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YqUZABrrhI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYB40wy8ZnU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjKeOuapyAg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u-5ygGPTaU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wcu1Wqr8TI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzoPVVqOWj4

Please point out where this always on guard, powers up to max/2-B instantly at the start of a fight, hyper cautious, planning ahead, ready to kill specifically with the strongest abilities version of Goku is, cause after wasting my time going through all of these because you wanna play this vague guessing game, I couldn't find a single instance that matched anyone's descriptions, not even the apparent off the bat mafuba omega shenron feat, just a long series of Goku and co hanging out with an OC while acting in character.

"Well what I saw it had it in it"

Then show some proof or drop the arguement and move on to a legitimate, citable point.

 

[Han_Solo7]

Goku can resist Jotaro's timestop like he did with Hit's Toki Tobashi and Towa's abilities. Also he can slow down time to gain speed advantage since speed is equalized. Goku one-shots.