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Jotaro (EoH) VS Jiren (DBS)

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LeSupremeKing1 said:
Thats not opening thats halfway through the fight LMAO

When he activated it initially Pucci was a distance away. Rat was EXTEREMELY far away, Kira was definitely far as well.
10M away? Cool so Jiren uses his AOE air punch, or uses Danmaku, which one shots. He uses TS to dodge? Cool, gets one shot with the next attack, since time stop has a "recharge time". So regardless that still doesn't help Jotaro's case.

K so he opens by studying his opponent rather than the actual timestop, while jiren can just open with AOE attacks that one shot.

He uses it to indicate someone is about to lose consciousness. And if we know that if he loses consciousness he dies, and in jojos death is more or less unfixable, and it's not stated he loses consciousness but does come back despite all of that, then I would think hes just on the brink of dying, not actually unconscious. But hey, since you are probably gonna repeat what you said already, I won't push that point any further.

I never strawmanned what you said, nor was I being fallacious. In fact im literally quoting everything you say lmao.

Because Joseph wasn't dead, it was just a matter of returning his blood to him, and making his blood circulate through his body to him.

Yeah I have a different interpretation of that, and already addressed it. You can repeat yourself, thats perfectly fine, but unless my interpretation that he was just ABOUT to lose consciousness/die is contradicted, it would be upheld.

Again stands vary in functionality, you don't use how another stand works and apply it to all stands. Thats proof by example.

They aren't, they just use two names for it.

So it's bullshit for me to argue Jiren can analyze and predict what Jotaro is about to do? Interesting. Nice appeal to stone.

Does he have resistance to it? Nope. So that argument doesn't work.

OOC.
Click to expand...
Where do you get the "time has a recharge" from? Based on what?

Joseph was dead, who says he isnt???

"Again stands vary in functionality, you don't use how another stand works and apply it to all stands. Thats proof by example." In this case, it doesnt. You do know that there are different types of stands, and likewise, that many of them are also in the same type, right? Weather being sentient being used as an example of an sentient stand like Star Platinum, isnt different. They're sentient. Having different powers and what not, has nothing to do with a stand being cognizant. Speed, stats, powers, etc, doesnt matter, it doesnt even affect a stand being sentient, so, where are you getting this notion from?

Guy has his eyes go totally white, doesnt respond anymore, isnt even aware, infact, mid-way DIO's swing, we see Jotaro's eyes snap open, and when DIO misses, we still see Jotaro looking up ahead just like how he opened his eyes.
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Thats like, obvious as shit. Can ya like, not act blind to it? Your like the first dude to ever go far for something like this. Please fix your reading ability my dude, its not even funny. Bruh.
 
What the hell is being argued anymore? I thought we came to the conclusion that, jiren is outside SP'S range so jotaro needs to move at non infinite speed to get closer which gives jiren the chance to blink jotaro away. I don't even remember.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
What the hell is being argued anymore? I thought we came to the conclusion that, jiren is outside SP'S range so jotaro needs to move at non infinite speed to get closer which gives jiren the chance to blink jotaro away. I don't even remember.
Click to expand...
ro has higher range than that
also Jiren resisting time stop isn't much of a problem since he is still slowed down by it iirc
 
the thing about speed equalized not equalizing speed of the stand was considered "dumb enough that some don't even believe it exists" and yes it doesn't work like that contrary to what people are saying at least to what the latest mention by a staff/mod. speed equalized is meant to equalize speed and speed of attack/ability (except passives). stand still falls under abilities.
 
TheGreatJedi13 said:
the thing about speed equalized not equalizing speed of the stand was considered "dumb enough that some don't even believe it exists" and yes it doesn't work like that contrary to what people are saying at least to what the latest mention by a staff/mod. speed equalized is meant to equalize speed and speed of attack/ability (except passives). stand still falls under abilities.
Click to expand...
Aren't stands passive? I thought their always active since I haven't watched jojo.
 
I see, thanks.

That means the stand speed would be decreased as well and wouldn't retain its speed.
 
TheGunsFinalWrath said:
Where do you get the "time has a recharge" from? Based on what?
Click to expand...
Based on the fact directly after jotaro overlaps his time stop with dios, hes frozen in time and unable to activate it again? Based on the fact dio experienced the same thing?
Joseph was dead, who says he isnt???
Click to expand...
Answered already.
In this case, it doesnt. You do know that there are different types of stands, and likewise, that many of them are also in the same type, right? Weather being sentient being used as an example of an sentient stand like Star Platinum, isnt different. They're sentient. Having different powers and what not, has nothing to do with a stand being cognizant. Speed, stats, powers, etc, doesnt matter, it doesnt even affect a stand being sentient, so, where are you getting this notion from?
Click to expand...
I never argued against the stands being sentient. I did however, argue against the stands being able to act for a knocked out user. Stands being sentient doesn't defeat that lmao. Especially because the state of stands and their users are generally reflected. Using how other stands work to cite a general rule is still proof by example, being able to percieve/feel things doesn't defeat that lmao.
 
Teezar said:
I see, thanks.

That means the stand speed would be decreased as well and wouldn't retain its speed.
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No because Star Platinum is treated as an ability. Star Platinum itself is a Jotaro technique as said in the Notable Powers and Abilties, so anything Star Platinum does is counted as Attack Speed, which is separated from Jotaro's own combat speed.
 
Teezar said:
Eternity is time that's basic knowledge nothing distance.
Click to expand...
Eternity means infinite or unending time and in that context, when its used to describe something spatially and not temporally, it still implies the space is endless.
We can discuss in dms, this isn't the thread to talk about WoV lmao.
ZillertheBucko said:
I'm just gonna go with Jotaro cause he speed blitzes infinitely here
Click to expand...
Reaction speed is an aspect of combats speed, and speed equalization applies.
Also reaction speed doesn't even allow for a blitz
 
LeSupremeKing1 said:
Reaction speed is an aspect of combats speed, and speed equalization applies.
Also reaction speed doesn't even allow for a blitz
Click to expand...
The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.

Jotaro still has infinite speed reactions and perception, whenever you like it or not.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
What the hell is being argued anymore? I thought we came to the conclusion that, jiren is outside SP'S range so jotaro needs to move at non infinite speed to get closer which gives jiren the chance to blink jotaro away. I don't even remember.
Click to expand...
actually, star plat can move into that range, he just would be weaker, and a slower degree of inf. But star plats hits were never gonna do damage anyway. Or, Star plat can just reality warp from there
 
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LeSupremeKing1 said:
Eternity means infinite or unending time and in that context, when its used to describe something spatially and not temporally, it still implies the space is endless.
We can discuss in dms, this isn't the thread to talk about WoV lmao.
Click to expand...
Eternity and infinity are different if you don't know this then I won't even indulge you in this.
 
StrymULTRA said:
The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.

Jotaro still has infinite speed reactions and perception, whenever you like it or not.
Click to expand...
I'm actually reading it as speed is still equalized since you said stand is an ability.
 
StrymULTRA said:
The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.

Jotaro still has infinite speed reactions and perception, whenever you like it or not.
Click to expand...
I already addressed that, you are just arguing from repetition
 
LeSupremeKing1 said:
I already addressed that, you are just arguing from repetition
Click to expand...
No you didn't.
Teezar said:
It says it would be equalized also.
Click to expand...
Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.

No.

Let's take that Character A has 10 as Combat speed, 30'000'000 as Attack speed/Reactions, and Character B has 2000 as Combat speed.

Under speed equal, B would have their speed recuced to 10, thus character A would have their Attack speed/Reactions reduced of 200 too, aka just 150'000, while both have just 10 as Combat speed.
 
The_Legendary_Vin said:
this equal speed system is needlessly complex, and seems intentionally made to be inefficient and create shit like this
Click to expand...
It's not. It's just the Dragon Ball fans who make up shit in order win fights in a dishonest way.

It clearly says that only combat speed is equalized, any other type of speed is just reduced to the same multiplier. Jotaro's own combat speed is Superhuman, Star Platinum, which is a TECHNIQUE separated from his own regular speed is infinite. Jotaro from himself doesn't trow punches at the same speed of Star Platinum, that's why there's still the gap in Speed, because is the character who's made in this way.
 
The_Legendary_Vin said:
this equal speed system is needlessly complex, and seems intentionally made to be inefficient and create shit like this
Click to expand...
It's like that actually so character's with certain attacks meant to be faster still retain their intended purposes and function, for example, imagine a gunslinger, who has a gun that, ya know, acts like a gun and is faster than him and can hit foes at a distance, but because of speed equal, his gun is just as fast as both him and his enemy, it'd make the gun completely useless and not work as it's meant to and it'll never hit a foe who's just as fast as the bullet and thus can dodge it with ease from afar.

It's to prevent shit like that.
 
The_Legendary_Vin said:
until we get shit like an infinite reaction speed
Click to expand...
I mean, wouldn't that be doubly so, if a character has something ridiculous like that, and is meant to be ridiculous and way beyond his base speed, equalizing it so it's on par completely ignores the point of it, it's meant to be fast and beyond what he is normally capable, it'd be even worse compared to the gun example. Like imagine in a situation where you equalized Made in Heaven or equalized BIG's speed, completely negating the point, or imagine in a match if Goku's transformations didn't amp speed (they do fyi in matches, only Goku's initial speed is equalized), and so on. If fast thing is meant to be > base speed, they stay > base speed, they still get equalized to an extent, but only to the point they're comparatively still the same to the base speed.

And i mean, to be fair, Plat is meant to be way beyond Jotaro's base speed and his speed is actually one of his main selling points, which is why it's mentioned all the time, he's meant to be faster than Jotaro and just about everyone and attack and defeat foes with blinding quickness. Now if we were talking about like The Hand who's speed is meant to be whatever and actually meant to be on the slower end I'd understand a bit more but Plat goes brrrr is a character trait, he's Jotaro's gun in this situation (Jotaro even makes a analogy against Dio treating his Stand as a gun and that he and Dio were about to have a western, pun intended, stand off).
 
StrymULTRA said:
No you didn't.

Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc.

No.

Let's take that Character A has 10 as Combat speed, 30'000'000 as Attack speed/Reactions, and Character B has 2000 as Combat speed.

Under speed equal, B would have their speed recuced to 10, thus character A would have their Attack speed/Reactions reduced of 200 too, aka just 150'000, while both have just 10 as Combat speed.
Click to expand...
Okay but infinite - infinite = infinite.
But how do you decrease speed via multipliers is it constant like a certain number?
 
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