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I VOte XENO GOKU!!!!! Xeno goku is MTFTL plus so Star platnium can't react to Him when he blasts or punches him.
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Goku vs Jotaro, but OP videogames version.
- Thread starter ArgentinianDeadpool
- Start date
- Status
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Seed is equalized
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Also I Still Vote Xeno Goku For other reasons/ the reasons that have already been said for Goku
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Xeno Goku wins because he has close and wide reality range manipulation while Jorato only has close reality range manipulation
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Got a battle music theme:
Titanium Batt - No More Heroes 2 Desperate Struggle Music Extended
Titanium Batt - No More Heroes 2 Desperate Struggle Music Extended
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@Ovens I've only watched playthroughs for obvious reasons but the game is the shit... or may be it's just shit. ovo
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@Brown
So far you haven't proven he's not cautious
From SDBH
>He didn't go off fighting Xeno Frieza wildly
>Transformed to SSJ3 right away and started with ki blast like I said
>Did not resist fusing when needed
>Did immediately power up to SSJ4
So far you haven't proven he's not cautious
From SDBH
>He didn't go off fighting Xeno Frieza wildly
>Transformed to SSJ3 right away and started with ki blast like I said
>Did not resist fusing when needed
>Did immediately power up to SSJ4
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From God Missions
>Did fight Demigra accordingly and start with a kamehameha
Xeno Goku did not appear in the Xenoverse Series or any other mission before the God Missions
So far you just solidified my point
>Did fight Demigra accordingly and start with a kamehameha
Xeno Goku did not appear in the Xenoverse Series or any other mission before the God Missions
So far you just solidified my point
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It allows him to not be affected by itYobobojojo said:
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@hst
Your, and more specifically the others "point" was that Goku was this hyper aware, straight to the point, strongest techniques only, end the fight instantly fighter, in none of those instances did he do or display ANY of these. He's powered up to either match fighters he's fought before,or get ready to fight those who's power he can already sense, that's it. There's no instance of an instant Mafuba use, IT for a point blank attack, blitz the opponent, etc. He may of powered up, yes, but for specific reasons, and to a specific point to match his opponent at the time, otherwise he fought just as he normally would.
Your, and more specifically the others "point" was that Goku was this hyper aware, straight to the point, strongest techniques only, end the fight instantly fighter, in none of those instances did he do or display ANY of these. He's powered up to either match fighters he's fought before,or get ready to fight those who's power he can already sense, that's it. There's no instance of an instant Mafuba use, IT for a point blank attack, blitz the opponent, etc. He may of powered up, yes, but for specific reasons, and to a specific point to match his opponent at the time, otherwise he fought just as he normally would.
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How so?
I never said he was hyper aware, but that he was more pragmatic in his approach, and powers up accordingly which has not been proven otherwise and you yourself solidified this with the trailers
You however are making a huge asumption that he would lower himself to High 8-C(Why he would that when he can't even feel his energy idk) for the lols
You assume he uses mafuba due to lack of knowledge, he seals in Extreme Butoden
He teleported to Demgira for a point blank IT
Also I never said he would point blank IT, but spam it, something which does not need to be point blank
I never said he was hyper aware, but that he was more pragmatic in his approach, and powers up accordingly which has not been proven otherwise and you yourself solidified this with the trailers
You however are making a huge asumption that he would lower himself to High 8-C(Why he would that when he can't even feel his energy idk) for the lols
You assume he uses mafuba due to lack of knowledge, he seals in Extreme Butoden
He teleported to Demgira for a point blank IT
Also I never said he would point blank IT, but spam it, something which does not need to be point blank
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It allows him to not be affected by it
Okay, im sorry for this. Do you know what your saying? Thats a utter NLF. First of all, resistance=/=immunity, if Hit's 1 second time stop was enough to overwhelm him, do you really think he could take nine seconds. At this point its clear you're wanking Goku to insane degrees. Unless you can find one time he resisted that much timestop, you're argument is invalid. Point Blank IT does nothing either, since Hotaro overwrites his blows and him out of existence.
Okay, im sorry for this. Do you know what your saying? Thats a utter NLF. First of all, resistance=/=immunity, if Hit's 1 second time stop was enough to overwhelm him, do you really think he could take nine seconds. At this point its clear you're wanking Goku to insane degrees. Unless you can find one time he resisted that much timestop, you're argument is invalid. Point Blank IT does nothing either, since Hotaro overwrites his blows and him out of existence.
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We just gonna forget star platinum being not litterally jotaro circumvents? Or his timestop being on par with twoh?
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"And others", i'm not just responding to your points. Anyways, key phrase, "powers up accordingly" He doesn't just drop into a fight and goes max for the heck of it, he powers himself in accordance to the threat he's facing, whether it's an old foe who he already knows is strong, or a new one who's energy he can already sense and knows not to take lightly.
That said, yes, it stands to reason that Goku, who powers up in accordance to who's he's fighting, isn't going to bust out an overly high/max power form and aim to blitz immeditly on an opponent who's not radiating with large levels of Ki and he's never met before. Does that mean he's gonna derp lunge into the fight without a care in the world, no, but it does mean he's not going to go all out instantly and shoot to kill on an opponent who doesn't show any reason to warrent that kind of power responce, not being able to sense KI has always meant they're either holding back, or don't have any, in both instances the character's weaker until they power up and bring it out, or they just don't have it and they're weaker, what reason would Goku have to be intimidated by this?
I don't assume that, others have, I'm saying he doesn't use that off the bat (if at all).
Did he IT point blank right off the bat at the start of the fight? If not it's irrelevent to my point, I'm not saying he'd never do that period, just that he won't open with that, especially not against an opponent that's nowhere near Demgira's level of power.
And like I said earlier, Goku's responce to a beam attack working/not working has always been go in and start punching, i'm not sure where this "IT spam" fits in.
That said, yes, it stands to reason that Goku, who powers up in accordance to who's he's fighting, isn't going to bust out an overly high/max power form and aim to blitz immeditly on an opponent who's not radiating with large levels of Ki and he's never met before. Does that mean he's gonna derp lunge into the fight without a care in the world, no, but it does mean he's not going to go all out instantly and shoot to kill on an opponent who doesn't show any reason to warrent that kind of power responce, not being able to sense KI has always meant they're either holding back, or don't have any, in both instances the character's weaker until they power up and bring it out, or they just don't have it and they're weaker, what reason would Goku have to be intimidated by this?
I don't assume that, others have, I'm saying he doesn't use that off the bat (if at all).
Did he IT point blank right off the bat at the start of the fight? If not it's irrelevent to my point, I'm not saying he'd never do that period, just that he won't open with that, especially not against an opponent that's nowhere near Demgira's level of power.
And like I said earlier, Goku's responce to a beam attack working/not working has always been go in and start punching, i'm not sure where this "IT spam" fits in.
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It allows him to not be affected by it
Okay, im sorry for this. Do you know what your saying? Thats a utter NLF. First of all, resistance=/=immunity, if Hit's 1 second time stop was enough to overwhelm him, do you really think he could take nine seconds. At this point its clear you're wanking Goku to insane degrees. Unless you can find one time he resisted that much timestop, you're argument is invalid. Point Blank IT does nothing either, since Hotaro overwrites his blows and him out of existence.
You have not been reading the thread have you......
Goku stomps Jotaro's time stop by Beat and co. being able to move after time was stopped by Towa across the multiverse
And to boot Jojo timestop is not impressive in anything other than range
Instead of accusing me of wank, read the thread
@J-Man
Could you be more specific?
And the only thing TWOH and SPOH got were reality overwrite and in TWOH's case indefinite Timestop
Okay, im sorry for this. Do you know what your saying? Thats a utter NLF. First of all, resistance=/=immunity, if Hit's 1 second time stop was enough to overwhelm him, do you really think he could take nine seconds. At this point its clear you're wanking Goku to insane degrees. Unless you can find one time he resisted that much timestop, you're argument is invalid. Point Blank IT does nothing either, since Hotaro overwrites his blows and him out of existence.
You have not been reading the thread have you......
Goku stomps Jotaro's time stop by Beat and co. being able to move after time was stopped by Towa across the multiverse
And to boot Jojo timestop is not impressive in anything other than range
Instead of accusing me of wank, read the thread
@J-Man
Could you be more specific?
And the only thing TWOH and SPOH got were reality overwrite and in TWOH's case indefinite Timestop
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@Brown
Yes you are assuming
You're assuming that I'm saying Goku would start at his max which isn't true
I'm saying Goku is looking at an suspicious looking opponent with some ghost like person behind him who he is not sensing energy from, that's more than enough reason to keep cautious.
I am NOT saying that he would start from Super Saiyan 4 in this situation I am saying he would not lower himself to ridiculous levels against an opponent he knows nothing about, he would stay at his starting strength, Which is more than enough to one shot Jotaro
And yes saving Beat he immediately started with an IT Kamehameha and a ki blast respectively
Again an assumption, an irrelevant one seeing as Goku is an actual martial artist and can dodge SPOH's punches
Jotaro has no stake in this anymore
Yes you are assuming
You're assuming that I'm saying Goku would start at his max which isn't true
I'm saying Goku is looking at an suspicious looking opponent with some ghost like person behind him who he is not sensing energy from, that's more than enough reason to keep cautious.
I am NOT saying that he would start from Super Saiyan 4 in this situation I am saying he would not lower himself to ridiculous levels against an opponent he knows nothing about, he would stay at his starting strength, Which is more than enough to one shot Jotaro
And yes saving Beat he immediately started with an IT Kamehameha and a ki blast respectively
Again an assumption, an irrelevant one seeing as Goku is an actual martial artist and can dodge SPOH's punches
Jotaro has no stake in this anymore
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IT spam is a solution in several situations he's been in whether physical or ki blast starting.
Which has been a thing he's done multiple times
Again never said he would start with IT spam
IT to catch someone off guard for a ki blast, yes
Which has been a thing he's done multiple times
Again never said he would start with IT spam
IT to catch someone off guard for a ki blast, yes
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How is that assuming? He clearly amps himself up to differing levels depending on who he's fighting.
"You're assuming that I'm saying Goku would start at his max which isn't true"
>D. Goku's still 2-B regardless the form Jotaro still gets one shotted
I never said he'd lower himself, just that he's not striking with full force aka going for the kill/win immeditly on an opponent who's vastly weaker than him in a dueling setting. Battles like this are treated like random encounters/arranged duels unless specified otherwise, so it's not like Jotaro's a past villian or an active villian, so attributing Goku's actions towards known antagonists and unknown antagonists attacking allies to dueling unknown opponents isn't valid.
It's not an assumption when it's based all of a character's standard, clearly displayed actions, and you're still assuming Goku's immune to timestop after admitting there's zero evidence of him doing so, or that he would specifically dodge the punches (as if he somehow knew about override and conviently avoids contact with the fists, which he doesn't) rather than just blocking the feeble blows like he would in literally every fight shown.
"You're assuming that I'm saying Goku would start at his max which isn't true"
>D. Goku's still 2-B regardless the form Jotaro still gets one shotted
I never said he'd lower himself, just that he's not striking with full force aka going for the kill/win immeditly on an opponent who's vastly weaker than him in a dueling setting. Battles like this are treated like random encounters/arranged duels unless specified otherwise, so it's not like Jotaro's a past villian or an active villian, so attributing Goku's actions towards known antagonists and unknown antagonists attacking allies to dueling unknown opponents isn't valid.
It's not an assumption when it's based all of a character's standard, clearly displayed actions, and you're still assuming Goku's immune to timestop after admitting there's zero evidence of him doing so, or that he would specifically dodge the punches (as if he somehow knew about override and conviently avoids contact with the fists, which he doesn't) rather than just blocking the feeble blows like he would in literally every fight shown.
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@Brown
Yes Goku is 2-B no matter the form
>In Base he's 2-B
>In SSJ he's 2-B
>In SSJ3 he's 2-B
>In SSJ4 he's 2-B
If he is at his base level of strength, no powering up or nerfing, he is going to be 2-B
In other words a casual strike from him ki blast or physical obliterates Jotaro
He has zero reason to power up nor to lower himself
It is an assumption if you choose to ignore several other battles in his lifetime(Xeno Goku's) and so now you're trying to say Goku doesn't dodge attacks? What?
You're contradicting yourself:
>You say Goku has no way of knowing how strong Jotaro is
>But then you say things like "Blocking the feeble blows" and he would lower himself past his normal strength like he knows how strong Jotaro is, which he does not, therefore he has no reason to not fight at his normal strength.
And again Jotaro's TS is useless, it has no feats against being resisted other than people being able to think and see and is only universal in range
Range =/= potency
While we have Goku having 2 resistance moments to say that Jotaro's wouldn't be effective while Jotaro has next to none himself
Yes Goku is 2-B no matter the form
>In Base he's 2-B
>In SSJ he's 2-B
>In SSJ3 he's 2-B
>In SSJ4 he's 2-B
If he is at his base level of strength, no powering up or nerfing, he is going to be 2-B
In other words a casual strike from him ki blast or physical obliterates Jotaro
He has zero reason to power up nor to lower himself
It is an assumption if you choose to ignore several other battles in his lifetime(Xeno Goku's) and so now you're trying to say Goku doesn't dodge attacks? What?
You're contradicting yourself:
>You say Goku has no way of knowing how strong Jotaro is
>But then you say things like "Blocking the feeble blows" and he would lower himself past his normal strength like he knows how strong Jotaro is, which he does not, therefore he has no reason to not fight at his normal strength.
And again Jotaro's TS is useless, it has no feats against being resisted other than people being able to think and see and is only universal in range
Range =/= potency
While we have Goku having 2 resistance moments to say that Jotaro's wouldn't be effective while Jotaro has next to none himself
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If that's the case then transforming would be irrelevent.
That's what override punches are for. Speed's equal, so it's not like Jotaro can't respond to it.
I already explained why he'd act the way he would in an innitially non serious duel against a human with no substantial ki, i'm not reposting it.
Again, actions and behaviors towards battling against known villains and ones attacking allies =/= dueling a random dude. And no, he dodges attacks, but when it comes to punch barrages he specifically blocks or counters the hits every time this has come up.
How is that a contradiction? He wouldn't know how strong he is, yes, this doesn't mean he's going to go full force in a random encounter duel, he'll spar in order to guage them, he looks like an average human and doesn't have a Ki reading outside the standard life force of a human, so why would be be striking with any overly excessive force off the bat? Again, this isn't a serious battle to the death with a past antagonist or an unknown antagonist who's attacking his allies, he's not going to respond to Jotaro as such, at least nor right off the bat. In the case of blocking punches, if Jotaro were to open with a barrage, Goku will quickly figure out that they're not really that powerful compared to him, nor before the fact, during and after.
That's what override punches are for. Speed's equal, so it's not like Jotaro can't respond to it.
I already explained why he'd act the way he would in an innitially non serious duel against a human with no substantial ki, i'm not reposting it.
Again, actions and behaviors towards battling against known villains and ones attacking allies =/= dueling a random dude. And no, he dodges attacks, but when it comes to punch barrages he specifically blocks or counters the hits every time this has come up.
How is that a contradiction? He wouldn't know how strong he is, yes, this doesn't mean he's going to go full force in a random encounter duel, he'll spar in order to guage them, he looks like an average human and doesn't have a Ki reading outside the standard life force of a human, so why would be be striking with any overly excessive force off the bat? Again, this isn't a serious battle to the death with a past antagonist or an unknown antagonist who's attacking his allies, he's not going to respond to Jotaro as such, at least nor right off the bat. In the case of blocking punches, if Jotaro were to open with a barrage, Goku will quickly figure out that they're not really that powerful compared to him, nor before the fact, during and after.
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@Sir it wouldn't be irrelevant, just make Goku an even higher end of 2-B.
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@Brown
Saying he'll go full force or not is irrelevant, because full force(aka full strength) and his normal strength Are both 2-B
As soon as Goku sees the Punches negating his attacks he's going to switch it up and start spamming(especially if it looks like Jotaro is using some kind of Hakai)
Goku can also use his space to slow Jotaro down
Or Shenron Mode
Again Im not saying he will go full force, I am saying that he will start with a Ki blast and as soon Jotaro negs it will fight accordingly
Simply because Jotaro looks human is not going to make him drop his power, especially since Lowering your ki for a surprise attack and other sources of unsensable energy by certain people like Kiri and God ki exist this would not be Goku's 1st time fighting someone who seemingly has no energy signature, hell Goku himself has done this before. And you're still ignoring Star Platinum's visibility already pointing out Jotaro is not normal
That's also assuming Goku will not dodge like he's done with
>Krillin twice
>Nappa
>Ginyu Force
>Gohan
>Goku Black
>Demigra
>Himself
>All of them regualarly dodge in their squabbles
Saying he'll go full force or not is irrelevant, because full force(aka full strength) and his normal strength Are both 2-B
As soon as Goku sees the Punches negating his attacks he's going to switch it up and start spamming(especially if it looks like Jotaro is using some kind of Hakai)
Goku can also use his space to slow Jotaro down
Or Shenron Mode
Again Im not saying he will go full force, I am saying that he will start with a Ki blast and as soon Jotaro negs it will fight accordingly
Simply because Jotaro looks human is not going to make him drop his power, especially since Lowering your ki for a surprise attack and other sources of unsensable energy by certain people like Kiri and God ki exist this would not be Goku's 1st time fighting someone who seemingly has no energy signature, hell Goku himself has done this before. And you're still ignoring Star Platinum's visibility already pointing out Jotaro is not normal
That's also assuming Goku will not dodge like he's done with
>Krillin twice
>Nappa
>Ginyu Force
>Gohan
>Goku Black
>Demigra
>Himself
>All of them regualarly dodge in their squabbles
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And thanks to speed equal you can't Goku could tell by his attack speed, in actualitiy Jotaro blitzs if speed was not equal
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Goku should take this for the reasons stated above.
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4 seperate transformations that are multitudes stronger than the prior just to stay in the same tier? How does that work? He's already multiversal, if he doesn't become multiversal+/2-A, how does he improve, yet stay the same?
This is all assuming Goku even opens with a beam, just because he did it in few instances against past antagonists and ones atacking allies doesn't mean that's how he'll always open a fight every time with any opponent. On average, canon or in game, he's much more likely to open up with hand to hand.
And for the last time, I'm not saying Goku's gonna drop his power/lower himself Ki wise to Jotaro's level, there's such a thing as pulling punches to guage an opponent, and striking in accordance to how strong sensing makes them out to be. And no, SP isn't normal, that doesn't change the fact that a majority of Goku's encounters , especially against unprovoked new opponents, start with hand to hand.
This is all assuming Goku even opens with a beam, just because he did it in few instances against past antagonists and ones atacking allies doesn't mean that's how he'll always open a fight every time with any opponent. On average, canon or in game, he's much more likely to open up with hand to hand.
And for the last time, I'm not saying Goku's gonna drop his power/lower himself Ki wise to Jotaro's level, there's such a thing as pulling punches to guage an opponent, and striking in accordance to how strong sensing makes them out to be. And no, SP isn't normal, that doesn't change the fact that a majority of Goku's encounters , especially against unprovoked new opponents, start with hand to hand.
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The gap between 2-B and 2-A is infinite, just because he doesn't become 2-A with transformations, doesn't mean he isn't much more powerful. But it doesn't matter anyway, even base Goku one-shots, heck, if Goku wastes time powering-up instead of just attacking, it will be even worst for him, because he's giving JoJo a chance to hit him and use Reality Overwrite.
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@Brown
In the game canon he starts with Ki blasts in his appearances as Xeno Goku, he starts with ki blasts
Goku can not sense his energy to properly hold back in the 1st place
Being an "Unprovoked new enemy" does not warrant Goku will automatically be going hand to hand, that is another assumption on your part
>Blasts against Jiren
>Blasts against Krillin
>Blasts against Bergamo
>Blast against Gravy
@Paulo
Goku can transform and power up instantly unless it is a form he is inexperienced in for example when he transformed SSJ4 it was instantaneous
In the game canon he starts with Ki blasts in his appearances as Xeno Goku, he starts with ki blasts
Goku can not sense his energy to properly hold back in the 1st place
Being an "Unprovoked new enemy" does not warrant Goku will automatically be going hand to hand, that is another assumption on your part
>Blasts against Jiren
>Blasts against Krillin
>Blasts against Bergamo
>Blast against Gravy
Code:
in which case is still irrelevant thanks to Goku's skillGoku can transform and power up instantly unless it is a form he is inexperienced in for example when he transformed SSJ4 it was instantaneous
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How? Both involve multiverses, which, by definition, contain within them an infinite number of universes, if it's finite, then it would be a multi-universe.
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The gap between 2-B and 2-A is as large as 3-A to High 3-A/Low 2-C. AKA infinity. Goku's Base form is 2-B, but his power up forms are just more higher into 2-B. The scaling goes SSJ4>>>SSJ3>>>SSJ>>>Base>=Demigra=Baseline, and that's with cutting out the middlemen and restricting the scaling to only Goku and Demigra. And SPA says Goku is willing to kill, not sure what you mean with Goku lowering himself and not going to attack first. Even if Goku lowers himself to galaxy levels of power, that's more than enough to 1-shot.
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It doesn't need to be infinite to be 2-B, it just needs to have over 1000 universes. Infinite universes is 2-A.
Also, I'm pretty sure one instant is enough for JoJo to punch him, but whatever.
Also, I'm pretty sure one instant is enough for JoJo to punch him, but whatever.
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You're forgetting that in also one instant, literally any connecting attack from Goku would splatter Jotaro into trillions of atoms across the cosmos easily.
Edit: here 2-B: Multiverse level Characters who can create and/or destroy 1001 to any higher finite number of universal 4-dimensional space-time continuums.
2-A: Multiverse level+ This category is separated in the following manner:
Multiverse level+: Characters who can destroy and/or create a countably infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums. Take note that the universes are technically lined up along a 5-dimensional axis, but that their geometrical size still amounts to 0 within this scale." so, 2-A is the infinite version of 2-B.
Edit: here 2-B: Multiverse level Characters who can create and/or destroy 1001 to any higher finite number of universal 4-dimensional space-time continuums.
2-A: Multiverse level+ This category is separated in the following manner:
Multiverse level+: Characters who can destroy and/or create a countably infinite number of 4-dimensional universal space-time continuums. Take note that the universes are technically lined up along a 5-dimensional axis, but that their geometrical size still amounts to 0 within this scale." so, 2-A is the infinite version of 2-B.
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No, I'm not, that's why I'm voting inconclusive.
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But that makes no sense, how does having one more over 1000 make a cluster of multiple universes suddenly a completly different classification of a cluster of multiple (still just as finite) universes? Do they then converge to form a new supermass, like a universal galaxy?
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