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Gilgamesh (f/sn) downgrade

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Marshadow29 said:
this has nothing to do with the first key, which is the subject of this thread. The first key is stated to be able to destroy avalon, even though thats contradicted. no amount of whataboutism is able to counter that
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We're calling you out for saying Gil's profile is F/SN lmfao
 
Marshadow29 said:
avalon protects attacks up to the 6-th dimension, thats just a nlf. Theres no supporting evidence for servant gil to have low-1c with enuma elish.
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You're blatantly ignoring most of the arguments made here to prove your point.

Furthermore, you brought up NLF to disprove a non existent point to make yourself seem smarter, please don't do that, it just makes the whole discussion more complicated.

Also my comment is a further addition to a previous point so you're quite literally not proving anything here. You just shortened what the scan I posted said in your first sentence lol
 
Marshadow29 said:
most of his non 1-c feats are from f/sn, and ea title is ea (f/sn), what does that small mistake have to do with the subject matter?
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That's because he rarely uses cqc without weapons LMFAO, if I had my way(and stopped being lazy) that profile would be decked out with every feat against a servant i could find
 
Small_Ophion said:
You're blatantly ignoring most of the arguments made here to prove your point.
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what arguments are you making besides "gilgamesh can destroy the world", which the world refers to multiple things, and the fact that gilgamesh couldnt break through avalon.
 
Marshadow29 said:
most of his non 1-c feats are from f/sn, and ea title is ea (f/sn), what does that small mistake have to do with the subject matter?
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Well I guess we should remove Artoria's Zero key and her Extella key. We should also remove any Grand Order feats and scaling from all servants not originally from Grand Order. Or we can acknowledge that, outside of Gilgamesh, servants use the naming scheme of Class (Series/True Name) and weapons kinda seem to adopt that.

If it bothers you that much, ask for permission to rename Ea's page to Ea (Fate series)
 
DaReaperMan said:
And then comes Nasu retconning shit, F/SN stuff just being contradicted, and Gilgamesh having multiple reasons to not fire full power Ea and instead the
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Not really as technically it still holds up especially since Avalon still has multiple statements even after what happened in F/SN.

Anyway, it doesn’t actually contradict what was shown in F/SN especially with statements regarding Ea at full power.

“
User: Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh’s favored Noble Phantasm, the Sword of Rupture Ea. Of all his countless Noble Phantasms, this is one of the few that he trusts implicitly.
The blade is divided into three parts, all of which rotate individually. Honestly, calling it a sword at all is a bit of a farce. When it goes into overload, gaseous energy shoots out of the seams between the segments.
The space-cutting technique fired from this overloaded state is called “Enuma Elish”, and boasts destructive power on the same level as Excalibur.
The name “Ea” is taken from one of the gods appearing in Babylonian mythology, of which the legend of Gilgamesh is a part, and the name “Enuma Elish” comes from the Babylonian creation myth.”





“Borne of the winds drawn unto the revolution of the three cylinders of Ea, the stratification of the compressed, conflicting currents of the resulting storm produce a virtual dislocation of space-time, capable of inflicting incredible damage.”

Which for the record, I do think the power for Full Power Ea still holds even for the F/SN so him not holding back on Artoria is still technically valid when it mentions it can exceed even Excalibur (At least at the time although I don’t remember it ever being buffed or anything to say least.)
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Not really as technically it still holds up especially since Avalon still has multiple statements even after what happened in F/SN.

Anyway, it doesn’t actually contradict what was shown in F/SN especially with statements regarding Ea at full power.

“
User: Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh’s favored Noble Phantasm, the Sword of Rupture Ea. Of all his countless Noble Phantasms, this is one of the few that he trusts implicitly.
The blade is divided into three parts, all of which rotate individually. Honestly, calling it a sword at all is a bit of a farce. When it goes into overload, gaseous energy shoots out of the seams between the segments.
The space-cutting technique fired from this overloaded state is called “Enuma Elish”, and boasts destructive power on the same level as Excalibur.
The name “Ea” is taken from one of the gods appearing in Babylonian mythology, of which the legend of Gilgamesh is a part, and the name “Enuma Elish” comes from the Babylonian creation myth.”





“Borne of the winds drawn unto the revolution of the three cylinders of Ea, the stratification of the compressed, conflicting currents of the resulting storm produce a virtual dislocation of space-time, capable of inflicting incredible damage.”

Which for the record, I do think the power for Full Power Ea still holds even for the F/SN so him holding back on Artoria when it mentions it can exceed even Excalibur (At least at the time although I don’t remember it ever being buffed or anything to say least.)
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excalibur has 13 seals that limit its power, iirc only after all of the 13 being broken does it reach tier 1
 
From what I remember, only Prototype Excalibur had the 13 Seals while Artoria's Excalibur is only at full power when there is a threat that threatens the planet.
 
“Enuma Elish: Star of Creation that Separated Sky and Earth: EX
Not exactly the Noble Phantasm name but refers to the sword of separation Ea’s full release form. It is considered the planet creating weapon that in the distant past separated the sky and earth. Through compression via alternating inversion a windstorm beyond human understanding faults, dislocating space and time pulverizing the target along with the world. “

That is from Fate Prisma Liner which is also years after F/SN.
 
Marshadow29 said:
I remember both having some description that states that its full power only unlocks after its user is fighting threat to the planet
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"The enemy must be more powerful than oneself.
The battle must be one-on-one.
The enemy must not be an Elemental.
The battle must be one against evil.
The battle must not involve personal gain.
The battle must not be inhumane.
The battle must be honorable.
The battle must be for the truth.
The battle must be to live.
The battle must be to save the world."

One of them is to save the world ye
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Not exactly the Noble Phantasm name but refers to the sword of separation Ea’s full release form. It is considered the planet creating weapon that in the distant past separated the sky and earth. Through compression via alternating inversion a windstorm beyond human understanding faults, dislocating space and time pulverizing the target along with the world. “

That is from Fate Prisma Liner which is also years after F/SN.
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That even gets contradicted by tiamat's description
However, the gods then turned their blades on Tiamat. Tiamat wailed and raged, birthing eleven new Magical Beasts to oppose the gods.
At the end of the war, Tiamat and the Eleven Beasts were destroyed.
The gods split Tiamat’s corpse in two, and used them to form the heavens and earth. It is said that this ritual created the world of humans.
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Even if you say ea was the weapon used, only the human world was created.
 
DaReaperMan said:
"The enemy must be more powerful than oneself.
The battle must be one-on-one.
The enemy must not be an Elemental.
The battle must be one against evil.
The battle must not involve personal gain.
The battle must not be inhumane.
The battle must be honorable.
The battle must be for the truth.
The battle must be to live.
The battle must be to save the world."

One of them is to save the world ye
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That should applied to only Proto Calibur as I honestly don’t think it should necessarily applied to Artoria’s Excalibur since as far as I am aware, they do have seals of sorts (Apparently from her interludes in FGO, but I have to double check), but not to this extent.
 
Marshadow29 said:
That even gets contradicted by tiamat's description

Even if you say ea was the weapon used, only the human world was created.
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Thing is, Ea (The Noble Phantasm) wasn’t using during the fight against Tiamat and the Babylonia Gods. Also Gil was born after that event so it doesn’t disprove Ea’s powers
 
HammerStrikes219 said:
Thing is, Ea (The Noble Phantasm) wasn’t using during the fight against Tiamat and the Babylonia Gods. Also Gil was born after that event so it doesn’t disprove Ea’s powers
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ea existed before gilgamesh.
Also i've seen many people say that ea is responsible for creating the world, but it was tiamat's death, and her death only created the human world, which is a texture ( even then, it should only apply to Mesopotamia due to a similar case)
 
There are "worlds" for specific areas, which is supported by the same strangefake scan.

Gudako:
1: My Lord, what precisely is the Abyss (深淵, Shinen?)?
2: Is there actually something further down than the Underworld?

Gilgamesh:
There is. The World of Mesopotamia comprises of Heaven and Earth. That which here lies below the Earth known as the Underworld -- and deeper still there rests the Abyss.
The Abyss is an Ocean of Void (無の海, Mu no Umi?). It is from those dark waters that the God Apsu and the Goddess Tiamat manifested, crafting the World of Mesopotamia.
If it must be described, it is the Sea of Dawn (黎明の海, Reimei no Umi?), which existed before the creation of life.
Being that the God Enki has at present vacated his posting as the Administrator of the Abyss, were one to plunge into it now, there would be no returning.

Mashu:
It's the place where Lord Gilgamesh sought the Herb of Immortality (不老不死の霊草, Furou-Fushi no Reisou?), isn't it?
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Regardless of whether the opponent was an indiviual or a group, it simply broke down the world they existed in.
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This does not mean the entire world/planet.
There is a reason why a distinction is made between anti world and anti planet nps
 
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Marshadow29 said:
really just conjecture.

I only want to downgrade f/sn/ non full power gilgamesh? what are you waffling about, it literally said that in the title and op
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bro do you think that tiamat is 8D when she was killed by a 4D or 3D weapon?do you still think fate uses R>F after that? in simple terms your thread is debunked the whole scale
 
God243 said:
bro do you think that tiamat is 8D when she was killed by a 4D or 3D weapon?do you still think fate uses R>F after that?
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next he's gonna make a thread for removing tier 1 from nasuverse as a whole. oh wait
 
God243 said:
bro do you think that tiamat is 8D when she was killed by a 4D or 3D weapon?do you still think fate uses R>F after that? in simple terms your thread is debunked the whole scale
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ea scaling to tiamat is in it's second key. a lot of people in this thread dont know the difference
 
Marshadow29 said:
There are "worlds" for specific areas, which is supported by the same strangefake scan.



This does not mean the entire world/planet.
There is a reason why a distinction is made between anti world and anti planet nps
Click to expand...
anti world = threat to textures and such
anti planet = threat to planet
this does not mean they can automatically destroy their classification's namesake, but pose a significant threat.
 
Marshadow29 said:
nerfed gilgamesh has little to no effect on nasu, at most, it'll nerf servant Enikdu.
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it will extend to the beasts, those who scale to the beasts, and so on, and so forth. and just in case you still disagree, I will send a few threads that talk about this same topic, so there can be no more debate.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/servant-scaling-moon-cell-downgrade-proposal-2-0.148944/

point is, your claims, among others, have been disproven consistently.

Edit: https://vsbattles.com/threads/nasuverse-discussion-rule.148971/ (just so you can see the other arguments)
 
KingNanaya said:
it will extend to the beasts, those who scale to the beasts, and so on, and so forth. and just in case you still disagree, I will send a few threads that talk about this same topic, so there can be no more debate.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/servant-scaling-moon-cell-downgrade-proposal-2-0.148944/

point is, your claims, among others, have been disproven consistently.
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alive gil's enuma elish still scales, the scaling there is more blatant than his servant form.
also i posted a scan that separates the entire "world" from the world of just 1 mythology. Different mythologies have different worlds
 
Can someone concisely summarize the basis for scaling Ea to Avalon?
 
Deagonx said:
Can someone concisely summarize the basis for scaling Ea to Avalon?
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Enkidu stating Enuma Elish could destroy the world in Fate/Strange Fake

The OP's argument revolves around Fate/Stay Night, something that Nasu has directly noted has been retconned in terms of Power levels due to later developments in the series, and since SN is the first work of Fate...
 
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