Gilgamesh (f/sn) downgrade

[Deagonx]

Enkidu stating Enuma Elish could destroy the world in Fate/Strange Fake

That's it?

 

[KingNanaya]

That's it?

it's a tiny bit more than that a lot bit more than that

 

[Mageman460]

That's it?

On top of numerous other statements through out all of Fate series Gil shows up in. Avalon is in the core of the planet. So destroying the Earth does require destroying Avalon.

 

[DaReaperMan]

That's it?

Considering Enkidu popped his own Enuma right after(And is an excellent source on that kinda stuff) there wasn't much chance lol

Otherwise, what everyone else has said

 

[Deagonx]

it's a tiny bit more than that a lot bit more than that

Okay. Can you share that with me?

On top of numerous other statements through out all of Fate series Gil shows up in. Avalon is in the core of the planet. So destroying the Earth does require destroying Avalon.

Right but does "destroy the world" mean "destroy the planet earth?"

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Enuma Elish: Star of Creation that Separated Sky and Earth: EX Not exactly the Noble Phantasm name but refers to the sword of separation Ea’s full release form. It is considered the planet creating weapon that in the distant past separated the sky and earth. Through compression via alternating inversion a windstorm beyond human understanding faults, dislocating space and time pulverizing the target along with the world-Prisma Illya Mats

Here, both VERY obvious statements regarding EA's power. In the same manga he was going to destroy a Reality Marble that was a replica of Earth.

I don't know why Marshallow is trying to argue only Stay Night feats count because of the page name, the page name is only there in the first place because it's where these things originate. We count everything for the pages. Please stop making these threads, you've cluttered the wiki so badly with these that it's starting to get extremely tiring.

 

[Small_Ophion]

These are the reasons listed on the Ea page

Ea is an Anti-World Noble Phantasm, capable of destroying Gaia's Reality Marble and likely overpowering Akhilleus Kosmos, which embodies the World. When used in Fate/strange fake, it would have destroyed the World, including its 6th dimensional realm, Avalon, without Enkidu's intervention. Child-Gil used it to destroy the Mirror World, a Reality Marble the size of Earth

Which is weirdly enough a bit different from the Gilgamesh page

An Anti-World Noble Phantasm and "planet-creating weapon", stated to be capable of destroying the target along with the World, and had Enkidu not intervened in Fate/strange Fake, it would have destroyed the World. This would all include Avalon, residing in the core of the planet, which is a 6-dimensional realm

I am also unsure as to why Gilgamesh killing Tiamat as listed for the CCC key as far as I remember, Gilgamesh didn't get any special buffs to get access to full power EA

 

[DaReaperMan]

Here, both VERY obvious statements regarding EA's power. In the same manga he was going to destroy a Reality Marble that was a replica of Earth.

I don't know why Marshallow is trying to argue only Stay Night feats count because of the page name, the page name is only there in the first place because it's where these things originate. We count everything for the pages. Please stop making these threads, you've cluttered the wiki so badly with these that it's starting to get extremely tiring.

Marshmallow?

 

[Small_Ophion]

I also have one question while we're here, why would Ea be considered a Mesopotamian artifact and therefore limited to the Mesopotamian texture?

To my knowledge Gilgamesh only found the sword and called it Ea, same goes for the attack Enuma Ellish.

 

[Deagonx]

Here, both VERY obvious statements regarding EA's power. In the same manga he was going to destroy a Reality Marble that was a replica of Earth.

Do we consider that replica as also imitating Avalon?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Marshmallow?

@Marshadow29 pretty sure he confused the name since he didn't use the tag function.

 

[Small_Ophion]

Marshmallow?

The dude who made the thread.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The dude who made the thread.

@Marshadow29 pretty sure he confused the name since he didn't use the tag function.

I was making fun of the misspell lmfao

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I also have one question while we're here, why would Ea be considered a Mesopotamian artifact and therefore limited to the Mesopotamian texture?

Even if it was a Mesopotamian artifact, we know that shit with high levels of Divinity don't really get limited to their own textures anyway. Someone like Zeus shapes the world itself by existing, and several Gods have anti-planet attacks. Zeus even has Anti-Solar System attacks, which are definetly not talking about just the Greek texture considering even his casual bolts in much weaker forms could incinerate the entire thing anyway lol.

 

[Small_Ophion]

Even if it was a Mesopotamian artifact, we know that shit with high levels of Divinity don't really get limited to their own textures anyway. Someone like Zeus shapes the world itself by existing, and several Gods have anti-planet attacks. Zeus even has Anti-Solar System attacks, which are definetly not talking about just the Greek texture considering even his casual bolts in much weaker forms could incinerate the entire thing anyway lol.

Yeah that's true, I was just wondering if we could even base it on being Mythology limited. Which if no, then I don't see a lot of texture only stuff making sense due it not having an origin that would limit it to that texture.

It wouldn't be much different from limiting Excalibur to the Arthurian (or is it Celtic?) texture.

 

[God243]

Enkidu stating Enuma Elish could destroy the world in Fate/Strange Fake

The OP's argument revolves around Fate/Stay Night, something that Nasu has directly noted has been retconned in terms of Power levels due to later developments in the series, and since SN is the first work of Fate..."But enkidu said he destroyed the world!”

yes but the op said:"Destroying the world can mean you destroy the earth’s reality marble/texture, which is only low 2-c.
Textures only make up the surface of the planet."

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Do we consider that replica as also imitating Avalon?

No as far as I am aware.

 

[DaReaperMan]

yes but the op said:"Destroying the world can mean you destroy the earth’s reality marble/texture, which is only low 2-c.
Textures only make up the surface of the planet."

Which is explicitly... not the case for Ea.

 

[Small_Ophion]

No as far as I am aware.

Think it only mirrors Servant related things and Artoria didn't have Avalon

 

[Lewis]

I agree, downgraded to 5-B. Why is a finite planet with 6 dimensions, LMAO

 

[PsychoWarper]

I agree, downgraded to 5-B. Why is a finite planet with 6 dimensions, LMAO

Even if this downgrsde went through it would still be Low 2-C

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Here, both VERY obvious statements regarding EA's power. In the same manga he was going to destroy a Reality Marble that was a replica of Earth.

I don't know why Marshallow is trying to argue only Stay Night feats count because of the page name, the page name is only there in the first place because it's where these things originate. We count everything for the pages. Please stop making these threads, you've cluttered the wiki so badly with these that it's starting to get extremely tiring.

contradicted by tiamat existing

However, the gods then turned their blades on Tiamat. Tiamat wailed and raged, birthing eleven new Magical Beasts to oppose the gods.
At the end of the war, Tiamat and the Eleven Beasts were destroyed.
The gods split Tiamat’s corpse in two, and used them to form the heavens and earth. It is said that this ritual created the world of humans.

Gudako:
1: My Lord, what precisely is the Abyss (深淵, Shinen?)?
2: Is there actually something further down than the Underworld?

Gilgamesh:
There is. The World of Mesopotamia comprises of Heaven and Earth. That which here lies below the Earth known as the Underworld -- and deeper still there rests the Abyss.
The Abyss is an Ocean of Void (無の海, Mu no Umi?). It is from those dark waters that the God Apsu and the Goddess Tiamat manifested, crafting the World of Mesopotamia.
If it must be described, it is the Sea of Dawn (黎明の海, Reimei no Umi?), which existed before the creation of life.
Being that the God Enki has at present vacated his posting as the Administrator of the Abyss, were one to plunge into it now, there would be no returning.

Mashu:
It's the place where Lord Gilgamesh sought the Herb of Immortality (不老不死の霊草, Furou-Fushi no Reisou?), isn't it?

world =Mesopotamian texture.
textures are obviously not 1-c

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Do we consider that replica as also imitating Avalon?

Ea is explicitly blocked by avalon. People are saying " its retconned" but give no reason as to how it contradicts the current lore.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Here, both VERY obvious statements regarding EA's power. In the same manga he was going to destroy a Reality Marble that was a replica of Earth.

I don't know why Marshallow is trying to argue only Stay Night feats count because of the page name, the page name is only there in the first place because it's where these things originate. We count everything for the pages. Please stop making these threads, you've cluttered the wiki so badly with these that it's starting to get extremely tiring.

If you read the thread, thats not what i was saying at all. All i said was that Ea got blocked by avalon, and should not scale to/above it like it does current;y

 

[HammerStrikes219]

If you read the thread, thats not what i was saying at all. All i said was that Ea got blocked by avalon, and should not scale to/above it like it does current;y

It was only on the NP, not the land itself anyway although I like to note Avalon has multiple statements, not just the one posted by @Small_Ophion (IIRC).

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

That's it?

(Ea is an Anti-World Noble Phantasm, capable of destroying Gaia's Reality Marble and likely overpowering Akhilleus Kosmos, which embodies the World. When used in Fate/strange fake, it would have destroyed the World, including its 6th dimensional realm, Avalon, without Enkidu's intervention. Child-Gil used it to destroy the Mirror World, a Reality Marble the size of Earth)

Ignoring the fact that the reality marble/mirror could just be the size of the earth without any layers,and that Akhilleus Kosmos is rated as unknown by itself, yea thats it yea thats it

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It was only on the NP, not the land itself anyway although I like to note Avalon has multiple statements, not just the one posted by @Small_Ophion (IIRC).

the np itself is a link to the land right? not really a huge difference

 

[Mageman460]

Ea is explicitly blocked by avalon. People are saying " its retconned" but give no reason as to how it contradicts the current lore.

Once again, false. This has been provided numerous times, you just elect to ignore it.

contradicted by tiamat existing

You seem to be ignoring the part where it is also said numerous times that Ea can destroy the world.

world =Mesopotamian texture.
textures are obviously not 1-c

The texture contains the sun, stars, the rest of the universe etc. Avalon is also connected to the planet being it's core and all . Even beyond that, Ea is blatantly said to be able to DESTROY the modern world.

If you read the thread, thats not what i was saying at all. All i said was that Ea got blocked by avalon, and should not scale to/above it like it does current;y

You actually said it multiple times. Which btw, Ea's page has been renamed to Ea (Fate) since it seems to have bothered you so much.

Ignoring the fact that the reality marble/mirror could just be the size of the earth without any layers,and that Akhilleus Kosmos is rated as unknown by itself, yea thats it yea thats it

Yeah, that's it if you ignore everything else that has been provided.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Once again, false. This has been provided numerous times, you just elect to ignore it.

all that was given was that fgo was made several years after f/sn, and its nasu's nature to contradict things. I have not seen yet 1 contradiction, if i missed something, send it here

You seem to be ignoring the part where it is also said numerous times that Ea can destroy the world.

You seem to be ignoring the part where i showed that different mythologies, can have different worlds

Ishtar says that's common sense. In this world, the heavens, the earth, and the underworld are all one scroll.

"For the underworld and the heavenly world to become something beyond shape, that's happened after your world - the world of humans took place."

So, anyways, what I'm saying is that if you stay here and get used to here, you'll not have a long life back in the other world. Now you understand? Hurry up and go to the second gate."

Gudako asks if there's anything below the underworld. Gilgamesh answers yes. What lies after is basically the abyss, and the world is made out of that as the bottom layer. The abyss is a limitless ocean, and from that arose Apus and Tiamat, and created the world.

The world has many different meanings in typemoon works.

The texture contains the sun, stars, the rest of the universe etc. Avalon is also connected to the planet being it's core and all . Even beyond that, Ea is blatantly said to be able to DESTROY the modern world.

Which is why its 2-c, unless you want to say that all Aristoteles are actually part of the earth. The modern world is only 1 layer of the earth.

You actually said it multiple times. Which btw, Ea's page has been renamed to Ea (Fate) since it seems to have bothered you so much.

Yeah, that's it if you ignore everything else that has been provided.

 

[Small_Ophion]

We seem to be going around in circles with Marshadow at this point.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

We seem to be going around in circles with Marshadow at this point.

circles because even though im showing many sources of evidence that the "world" can mean several different things depending on the context, none of you will budge

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Enuma Elish.
The creation of a spatial severance (空間切断, kuukan setsudan?) by the Sword of Separation (乖離剣, Kairi Ken?), Ea.
Compressed (圧縮され, ashuku-sare?), intertwined (絡み合う, karami-au?) stratifications (断層, dansou?) of wind (風圧, fuuatsu?, lit. "wind pressure") become as a virtual (擬似的な, gijiteki-na?, lit. "quasi-, pseudo-, virtual") dislocation of space-time (時空断層, jikuu dansou?, lit. "space-time stratification / fault / dislocation"), annihilating any who would stand in opposition.
Aside from holding an armor class (アーマークラス?) of sufficient magnitude to Anti-Purging (対粛清, tai-shukusei?, lit. "resisting Purging"), or enacting mutual negation (相殺, sousatsu?) via an attack that inflicts the same order of damage, the damage rendered cannot be defended against.

Do keep in mind that is from a material book that explicitly pointed out Ea at its fullest output can not normally been defended against unless you have something equal to that of anti purging or a attack that is on the same scale as Ea itself and that is after F/SF, Fate/Zero, and so on.


Also I don’t know why we automatically assume it will destroy Avalon in its entirety, but regardless, I getting tired of having to go through the statements from every available source on this topic alone.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Do keep in mind that is from a material book that explicitly pointed out Ea at its fullest output can not normally been defended against unless you have something equal to that of anti purging or a attack that is on the same scale as Ea itself and that is after F/SF, Fate/Zero, and so on.

I'm kind of confused on where you're getting at, tbh i dont see what purge or anti purge has to dow ith anything here

Also I don’t know why we automatically assume it will destroy Avalon in its entirety, but regardless, I getting tired of having to go through the statements from every available source on this topic alone.

yea its kinda weird, especially since the wiki likes to use the low end of feats to be on the safer side.

 

[God243]

Which is explicitly... not the case for Ea.

Why?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why?

Ea is not Mesopotamian-bound, even by the OP's arguments, Ea extends to ALL mythologies since we don't know precisely where it's from to my knowledge.

Adding that along with the fact that Ea gets a new world or planet destruction statement every game/guidebook it's in(and occasionally gets them from shit like Strange Fake), makes the singular feat in the first work of fate overshadowed and unusable due to Nasu's added statement of retconning shit in regards to power- basically, WoG and Statements kill this thread.

Avalon being in the planet's core kind of means Ea extends to that too, if you destroyed a planet destroying it's core too is a baseline assumption until proven otherwise

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Also considering how F/SN haven’t gotten a remake, we have to see how that goes.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also considering how F/SN haven’t gotten a remake, we have to see how that goes.

TBH I kind of hope it does, with the Tsukihime remake it definitely gave hope to the older works to get a fresh start

 

[HammerStrikes219]

TBH I kind of hope it does, with the Tsukihime remake it definitely gave hope to the older works to get a fresh start

If Avalon is shown to once again block Ea at its full power, then it effectively make the statement made in a FGO material pretty much valid all things considered.

Also, the only reason Avalon is even 6D is thanks to one of the multiple statements that was posted after F/SN.

Hell, even the one Fate Zero mat has a statement about Avalon (NP).

 

[DaReaperMan]

If Avalon is shown to once again block Ea at its full power, then it effectively make the statement made in a FGO material pretty much valid all things considered.

Also, the only reason Avalon is even 6D is thanks to one of the multiple statements that was posted after F/SN.

Hell, even the one Fate Zero mat has a statement about Avalon (NP).

Yeah, honestly if we get more context as to the why and how that'd be great, I just love enough context being there so we don't have to make assumptions

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Ea is not Mesopotamian-bound, even by the OP's arguments, Ea extends to ALL mythologies since we don't know precisely where it's from to my knowledge.

Adding that along with the fact that Ea gets a new world or planet destruction statement every game/guidebook it's in(and occasionally gets them from shit like Strange Fake), makes the singular feat in the first work of fate overshadowed and unusable due to Nasu's added statement of retconning shit in regards to power- basically, WoG and Statements kill this thread.

Avalon being in the planet's core kind of means Ea extends to that too, if you destroyed a planet destroying it's core too is a baseline assumption until proven otherwise

Ea is a real Mesopotamian god, and its three sections represent heaven, the earth ( where humans are), and the underworld.

Enki - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org