Gilgamesh (f/sn) downgrade

[BasedNecoScaler69]

No way, a Marshadow29 nasu downgrade thread?! This is less likely than the far side releasing!
Anyway, this is more of an Ea downgrade. This downgrade only applies to servant ea.

Now, to debunk the planet busting feats.

Gilgamesh's final Noble Phantasm which reveals creation--the beginning of everything.
The severing of space which comes from the Sword of Rupture, Ea, the sword crowned with the name of a god from Mesopotamian mythology.
The god, Ea, is believed to be the quasi-deification of the power of the planet which turned, smashed, and stabilized the surface of the earth when it was still covered in gas and seas of magma, during the primordial stage of the earth.

Enuma Elish.
The creation of a spatial severance (空間切断, kuukan setsudan?) by the Sword of Separation (乖離剣, Kairi Ken?), Ea.
Compressed (圧縮され, ashuku-sare?), intertwined (絡み合う, karami-au?) stratifications (断層, dansou?) of wind (風圧, fuuatsu?, lit. "wind pressure") become as a virtual (擬似的な, gijiteki-na?, lit. "quasi-, pseudo-, virtual") dislocation of space-time (時空断層, jikuu dansou?, lit. "space-time stratification / fault / dislocation"), annihilating any who would stand in opposition.
Aside from holding an armor class (アーマークラス?) of sufficient magnitude to Anti-Purging (対粛清, tai-shukusei?, lit. "resisting Purging"), or enacting mutual negation (相殺, sousatsu?) via an attack that inflicts the same order of damage, the damage rendered cannot be defended against.

Borne of the winds drawn unto the revolution of the three cylinders of Ea, the stratification of the compressed, conflicting currents of the resulting storm produce a virtual dislocation of space-time, capable of inflicting incredible damage.

All of these connect to Ea’s true ability, which is tearing up the world reality marble to reveal its primordial self.

”But enkidu said he destroyed the world!”
Destroying the world can mean you destroy the earth’s reality marble/texture, which is only low 2-c.
Textures only make up the surface of the planet.
Otherwise you would have to classify all anti-world noble phantasms as 1-c, which is dumb.
Due to this, I believe Gilgamesh (servant) key should be downgraded to low 2-c

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Almost forgot to put downgrade in the title

 

[Vietthai96]

Are you serious???, with the current accepted Nasu Earth cosmology, the planet is 6D due to contain Avalon, Avalon didn't even exist when the planet was in its primordial form, EA practically reveal the planet in its primordial form, which mean it also nuke Avalon, not just the World texture, also EA is considered as both Anti-World and Anti-Planet Noble Phatasm iirc

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Are you serious???, with the current accepted Nasu Earth cosmology, the planet is 6D due to contain Avalon, Avalon didn't even exist when the planet was in its primordial form, EA practically reveal the planet in its primordial form, which mean it also nuke Avalon, not just the World texture, also EA is considered as both Anti-World and Anti-Planet Noble Phatasm iirc

Avalon is not a texture, but exists on the reverse side. Again, none of the scans for ea imply avalon getting destroyed as well

It was a Noble Phantasm reaching the realm of True Magic. Avalon shut out all physical interference, operation of parallel worlds, and multi-dimensional communication (up to the sixth dimension).

 

[Vietthai96]

Avalon is not a texture, but exists on the reverse side. Again, none of the scans for ea imply avalon getting destroyed as well

Reverse Side of the World is still reside in Earth, which is a layer of the World texture as well, when all the layer is nuked, the planet in its primordial form is revealed which is a ball of magma and molten rock, claimed that Reverse Side isn't the World rexture or a part of the Earth is ridiculous

 

[Theoretical]

All of these connect to Ea’s true ability, which is tearing up the world reality marble to reveal its primordial self.

The reddit debunks don't really work lol ea is already said to have the of planet creating in the fate extra ccc matrix

”But enkidu said he destroyed the world!”
Destroying the world can mean you destroy the earth’s reality marble/texture, which is only low 2-c.
Textures only make up the surface of the planet.
Otherwise you would have to classify all anti-world noble phantasms as 1-c, which is dumb.
Due to this, I believe Gilgamesh (servant) key should be downgraded to low 2-c

The primordial state of the earth is deeper than the texture of avalon so ea would still reach that

 

[Mageman460]

You are aware that the Reverse Side of the World is LITERALLY on the opposite side of the texture right? So to destroy the texture you have to destroy both sides. Which includes Avalon.

 

[Theoretical]

No way, a Marshadow29 nasu downgrade thread?! This is less likely than the far side releasing!

And your second thread today that's kinda crazy

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

The reddit debunks don't really work lol ea is already said to have the of planet creating in the fate extra ccc matrix

Creation doesn't equal ap in this wiki, also creating a texture or an actual planet

The primordial state of the earth is deeper than the texture of avalon so ea would still reach that

ill respond to this later

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You are aware that the Reverse Side of the World is LITERALLY on the opposite side of the texture right? So to destroy the texture you have to destroy both sides. Which includes Avalon.

The place where the evil dragon Fafnir finally arrived at the very end of the novels. The Phantasmal Races, having understood that the Age of the Gods was over, ceded the Earth’s surface to humans and moved to this place. The world where humans currently live (including the laws of physics) is like a fabric that thinly extends across the surface of the planet. Beneath that fabric exist the planet known as “Earth”. On the other hand, the Reverse Side of the World is the world as it was before humans lived there… that is, the fabric of the era where Phantasmal Races strode the land. In other words, the Earth is the bottommost layer of the planet, and it is covered by the “Reverse Side of the World”—the place where the laws of the “world” as it once was reigns, and covering that is the “Present World”.
In the Reverse Side of the World, the Holy Grail cannot activate its function of “using the Third Sorcery”. In the first place, that function was for the sake of granting Shirou Kotomine’s wish. In other words, it is programmed to target humans, and doesn’t count Phantasmal Races as valid targets.
Jeanne d’Arc is a Heroic Spirit who, from the start, lost her human body long ago. Because of that, the chances of her reaching the Reverse Side weren’t completely zero… However, that is merely the kind of “not zero” like, as a comparison, somehow managing to pass through a wall with the tunnel effect, but the Throne where Heroic Spirits Exist is cut off from the time axis, so she effectively had an infinite number of attempts to try.

theres the human texture, and the reverse side of the world. which is the planet before humans exist/ its true state. you'd have to prove that gilgamesh can destroy both.

 

[Hunterzillas]

Are you serious???, with the current accepted Nasu Earth cosmology, the planet is 6D due to contain Avalon, Avalon didn't even exist when the planet was in its primordial form, EA practically reveal the planet in its primordial form, which mean it also nuke Avalon, not just the World texture, also EA is considered as both Anti-World and Anti-Planet Noble Phatasm iirc

I'm not too familiar with deeper Nasu lore, but I thought a huge deal about Avalon was that Gilgamesh could not touch it with EA. That's why Avalon saved Saber in the Fate Route, no?

 

[Maxeez]

Creation doesn't equal ap in this wiki

The following is a comprehensive overview of the hierarchical system which this wiki utilizes in order to properly categorize and index fictional characters, entities, and objects based on the scale of their feats, and the varying scopes which they can affect or create/destroy.​

It does.

 

[Maxeez]

I'm not too familiar with deeper Nasu lore, but I thought a huge deal about Avalon was that Gilgamesh could not touch it with EA. That's why Avalon saved Saber in the Fate Route, no?

It's because Ea is likely restricted in those routes. Otherwise, like in Strange Fake, Ea is at full power.
Those informations are already written on his profile :

at least Small Country level with Enuma Elish (Destroyed Rider's Reality Marble and overpowered Excalibur), Low Complex Multiverse level with full power Enuma Elish (An Anti-World Noble Phantasm and "planet-creating weapon", stated to be capable of destroying the target along with the World, and had Enkidu not intervened in Fate/strange Fake, it would have destroyed the World. This would all include Avalon, residing in the core of the planet, which is a 6-dimensional realm[3]).

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It's because Ea is likely restricted in those routes. Otherwise, like in Strange Fake, Ea is at full power.
Those informations are already written on his profile :

you would have to prove that non extra enuma elish can break through that barrier

 

[PsychoWarper]

Otherwise you would have to classify all anti-world noble phantasms as 1-c, which is dumb.

Yes thats literally how it’s handled, any NP that’s considered to be able to nuke the planet is given Low 1-C to 1-C

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

It does.

Attack Potency Scaling​

Note that this only applies to the character's capacity to harm other characters if their Creation is connected to their other abilities; for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana, however a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Yes thats literally how it’s handled, any NP that’s considered to be able to nuke the planet is given Low 1-C to 1-C

anti-world noble phantasms cant destroy the planet, thats strictly for anti-planet noble phantasms

 

[Maxeez]

you would have to prove that non extra enuma elish can break through that barrier

All the necessary scans are already in Gil's profile. I'm not going to argue about that any further and let others handle it.

Attack Potency Scaling​

Note that this only applies to the character's capacity to harm other characters if their Creation is connected to their other abilities; for example, it can be reasoned that a mage who can conjure a city with little mana can destroy one with the same amount of mana, however a character who can create objects without other ways of harming their opponents wouldn't be able to harness that power to hurt another character, and would fall under a light form of Environmental Destruction.

Where did you even get that from ? It's not said anywhere in this wiki and comes from that wiki which has nothing to do with us.
Anyways it's pointless since the creation argument supports the destruction one here, so it doesn't even matter.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm not too familiar with deeper Nasu lore, but I thought a huge deal about Avalon was that Gilgamesh could not touch it with EA. That's why Avalon saved Saber in the Fate Route, no?

it isn't Full Powered EA, the full power one is in Strange Fake against Enkidu's EA and Grand Order against Tiamat, where he chanting the full version of the Noble Phantasm, release the maximum output of the sword. Both in Fate/Zero and F/SN he never actually do the full chanting, so it only can match up to Excalibur, slightly overpowered the holy sword, and completely useless against Avalon

 

[HammerStrikes219]

it isn't Full Powered EA, the full power one is in Strange Fake against Enkidu's EA and Grand Order against Tiamat, where he chanting the full version of the Noble Phantasm, release the maximum output of the sword. Both in Fate/Zero and F/SN he never actually do the full chanting, so it only can match up to Excalibur, slightly overpowered the holy sword, and completely useless against Avalon

The thing is, I don’t think the full chant was needed in orders for him to unleash full power Ea and he definitely didn’t hold back on Tiamat IIRC

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

All the necessary scans are already in Gil's profile. I'm not going to argue about that any further and let others handle it.

Where did you even get that from ? It's not said anywhere in this wiki and comes from that wiki which has nothing to do with us.
Anyways it's pointless since the creation argument supports the destruction one here, so it doesn't even matter.

Creation

Creation is the ability to create something from nothing, without manipulating existing things. The user can create organic or inorganic matter from nothing either as finished objects or simply unfinished elements. As long as it can be defined as object, the user has the power to make it...

vsbattles.fandom.com

ea's ability is ed

 

[Vietthai96]

The thing is, I don’t think the full chant was needed in orders for him to unleash full power Ea and he definitely didn’t hold back on Tiamat IIRC

he did the full chant against Tiamat iirc, at least the anime did, also it is hard to know, plot-related thing, since Excalibur at full power can blast Sefar and is Low 1-C

 

[HammerStrikes219]

he did the full chant against Tiamat iirc, at least the anime did, also it is hard to know, plot-related thing, since Excalibur at full power can blast Sefar and is Low 1-C

He didn’t do the full chant in FGO mobile and as such doesn’t count in the mobile and keep in mind, the anime is a adaptation of the mobile game anyway in this case

 

[Vietthai96]

He didn’t do the full chant in FGO mobile and as such doesn’t count in the mobile and keep in mind, the anime is a adaptation of the mobile game anyway in this case

probably the mobile didn't have enough to drag the whole chant out, since it is mobile game it can't afford to extent the dialogue???

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

He didn’t do the full chant in FGO mobile and as such doesn’t count in the mobile and keep in mind, the anime is a adaptation of the mobile game anyway in this case

 

[HammerStrikes219]

probably the mobile didn't have enough to drag the whole chant out, since it is mobile game it can't afford to extent the dialogue???

Never mind, I misremembering that.

I will double check on F/SN as he was very willing to unleash Ea on their final fight against him

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Not to mention the Visual Novel is like decades old since it is expected as he didn’t originally have a chant for Ea




Also I just remembered here at 2:15, it specifically say he using Ea at its fullest maximum output

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

he did the full chant against Tiamat iirc, at least the anime did, also it is hard to know, plot-related thing, since Excalibur at full power can blast Sefar and is Low 1-C

gilgamesh stated he wasnt holding back when using ea in hollow ataraxia i believe

 

[HammerStrikes219]

gilgamesh stated he wasnt holding back when using ea in hollow ataraxia i believe

I just posted the video above. It is not from Hollow Ataraxia. It is from Fate Stay Night Fate Route

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I just posted the video above. It is not from Hollow Ataraxia. It is from Fate Stay Night Fate Route

im talking about a different case

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

basically
ea tears apart textures
has canonically failed against avalon, meaning it cant destroy the reverse side.
easy l2-c

 

[Theoretical]

Many gods began building nations after the the primordial earth was stabilized into a world where living creatures could live, but Ea is a god who performed the act of building of planet before that.

Gilgamesh's sword, which is crowned with Ea's name, changes space itself by agitating space-time through the rotation of three layers of giant power fields.

It's true power is not something to be used against a single living creature but against the world.

I don't know man but if you ask me the act of building a planet should supersede the textures that exist within the planet but maybe that's just me.

theres the human texture, and the reverse side of the world. which is the planet before humans exist/ its true state. you'd have to prove that gilgamesh can destroy both.

The Sword of Rupture commanded by the King of
Heroes - what its single strike bore through was not only
the earth, but the world itself, stretching to the sky. The
attack was not even something to be discussed as a
matter of whether it hit, or whether its force was
advisable. Soldiers, horses, the dust, the sky - nearly
everything that used the cut space as a foundation was
swallowed and disappeared into the surging void.

Seems to be specific when it just doesn't talk ab the world/what you denote for as texture of humanity and earth, I don't know me but me personally I think if they said earth and not just "the world" it would refer to all the textures but maybe that's just me.

anti-world noble phantasms cant destroy the planet, thats strictly for anti-planet noble phantasms

Mahapralaya

Power that’s bestowed to Arjuna along with the 「Anti-Evil Skill」. That is this 「The Revolving Sword that Arbitrates the Great Dissolution」. He’ll decide to swing the sword at the end of everything which will end the world and obliterate evil. The world as a whole will be extinguished if this sword is swung. Mahapralaya points out the extermination of the universe when Brahma dies...namely, the kalpa of destruction.

As expected, even though he’s referred to as the peerless Arjuna, this sword can’t display its power perfectly when swung. However, when it comes to bringing forth destruction that’s condensed・limited, being the same as the「shadow of the hands of the God of destruction」, Arjuna thinks it’s good enough regarding its ease of use.

I don't know all about an anti-world noble phantasms not having the capacity to destroy the planet maybe that's just me.

Gilgamesh spoke these words not to the Heroic Spirit below him, but to the sword in his
hand.
As if in response, the cylindrical sword twisted the air while spinning like a tunneling drill.
The whirlwind grew and drew in even more air, and a small tornado formed.
The two cyclones combined and created an even greater distortion in the air — all of this
was drawn and compressed in the sword.
The layers of wind grew even denser and exceeded the physical laws, quickly turning into
a lethal weapon that ripped apart all of Creation, and began condensing into a fissure in space
itself.
Sound and light converged in the distortion, and silence and darkness encircled the sword.
As if to excite the howls of the seemingly living weapon, Gilgamesh gripped it even more strong-
ly, and swung it down at his long-lost friend without hesitation—

I don't know man, if you asked me personally all creation would include the reverse side of the world but maybe that's just me.

Before that one blade was swung, all things were
nothing more than chaos which could not form any
meaning, After that one blade was swung, a new truth divided
and distinguished Heaven, Sea, and Earth.
The released tumult of genesis was no longer in the
realm of an anti-fortress Noble Phantasm. It was an
irregularity that broke down not only that which
possessed shape, but all of creation. That was the true
form of the anti-world Noble Phantasm that made the
King of Heroes transcendent.
Heaven fell, Earth broke; within the darkness where
everything returned to nothingness, only Archer's Sword
of Rupture shone with brilliance. The dazzling light
continued to complete the destruction, like a star of
creation, the first thing illuminating the new world.

Shit all creation again? All things?everything? That's crazy

Enuma Elish: Star of Creation that Separated Sky and Earth: EX
Not exactly the Noble Phantasm name but refers to the sword of separation Ea’s full release form. It is considered the planet creating weapon that in the distant past separated the sky and earth. Through compression via alternating inversion a windstorm beyond human understanding faults, dislocating space and time pulverizing the target along with the world.

Oh no it can't be a planet creating sword? Na something doesn't add up tbh.

 

[FallenMaou2234]

anti-world noble phantasms cant destroy the planet, thats strictly for anti-planet noble phantasms

Bruh....

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I don't know man but if you ask me the act of building a planet should supersede the textures that exist within the planet but maybe that's just me.

The Sword of Rupture commanded by the King of
Heroes - what its single strike bore through was not only
the earth, but the world itself, stretching to the sky. The
attack was not even something to be discussed as a
matter of whether it hit, or whether its force was
advisable. Soldiers, horses, the dust, the sky - nearly
everything that used the cut space as a foundation was
swallowed and disappeared into the surging void.

Seems to be specific when it just doesn't talk ab the world/what you denote for as texture of humanity and earth, I don't know me but me personally I think if they said earth and not just "the world" it would refer to all the textures but maybe that's just me.

Mahapralaya

Power that’s bestowed to Arjuna along with the 「Anti-Evil Skill」. That is this 「The Revolving Sword that Arbitrates the Great Dissolution」. He’ll decide to swing the sword at the end of everything which will end the world and obliterate evil. The world as a whole will be extinguished if this sword is swung. Mahapralaya points out the extermination of the universe when Brahma dies...namely, the kalpa of destruction.

As expected, even though he’s referred to as the peerless Arjuna, this sword can’t display its power perfectly when swung. However, when it comes to bringing forth destruction that’s condensed・limited, being the same as the「shadow of the hands of the God of destruction」, Arjuna thinks it’s good enough regarding its ease of use.

I don't know all about an anti-world noble phantasms not having the capacity to destroy the planet maybe that's just me.

I don't know man, if you asked me personally all creation would include the reverse side of the world but maybe that's just me.


Shit all creation again? All things?everything? That's crazy


Oh no it can't be a planet creating sword? Na something doesn't add up tbh.

Ragnarok is just a giant anti-feat lol. It was stated to “end” reality but in actuality, it just destroyed the Scandinavian texture, which killed all of the mythical legends and phantasmal species. Same thing is likely for Ea, it created the Mesopotamian texture.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Bruh....

What’s the confusion lol

 

[Tdjwo]

Disagreed

 

[Theoretical]

Ragnarok is just a giant anti-feat lol. It was stated to “end” reality but in actuality

It just said the he once destroyed "world" , then went on to say it can destroy the planet too not that it once destroyed the planet.

Same thing is likely for Ea, it created the Mesopotamian texture.

That's a pretty big presupposition do you have any basis for that outside of surtr which is a distinct circumstance to ea?

 

[speedster352]

I disagree fra

 

[Small_Ophion]

Honestly this seems more like an attempt to upgrade for base EA rather than downgrade full power EA lol

Anyways disagree for FRA