Fate/Grand Order: Kiara's Tier?

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Kiara Sessyoin is currently ranked at 5-A due to hr feat from Fate/Extra. However, the profile also lists her feat from Fate/Grand Order as part of the evidence.

One problem: That feat is not 5-A, it's 4-B.

Just look at it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec3R5qAwgC4&feature=youtu.be&t=38

She is acting as the sun, having the solar system's planets orbit around her (You can see all the way to Saturn and even Uranus, too), and she releases an explosion that destroys everything.

This is 4-B, at the very leaser High 4-C. Someone needs to calc an explosion that would go from the sun all the way to Uranus to figure out the wield.

And I don't think that this is terribly inconsistent, because:

• Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess, is stated to "emit energy like the sun"
• Quetzacoatl is supposed to be capable of transforming into the sun, a reference to Aztec Mythology where Quetzacoatl (The morning star) was the second sun
• Nasu states that Bodhisattvas have cosmic proportions and "can easily manage things on the scale of the Solar System"... Well, Kiara's Noble Phantasm confirms that.

Am I wanking? Am I being reasonable? Please comment.

 

[Promestein]

I don't think it's wanking, I was thinking the same when I saw it.

I'm a bit uncertain about a straight-up 4-B rating, though. Maybe just "At least 5-A, possibly 4-B" or something.

 

[OwariNepgear]

I thought the same when i saw her NP while playing FGO, too. I'm not sure that was an explosion or just some light emitted from her body. Yet, she must be at least 4-C since her pure size is even more than the sun already.

 

[Reppuzan]

I don't think you're wanking, it's just that I wasn't sure what to do with the F/GO animation since it was so different from her original Noble Phantasm animation (which was definitely NSFW).

If this were to go through, it would only scale to the absolute top tiers of the Nasuverse. I'm not even sure if Gil and Enkidu would scale to this though, since I believe that Quetz manhandled Kingu when he was using Enkidu's body (albeit there was a compatibility issue there).

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

While I do like the thought of having Tier 4 Nasuverse, I would want to have Kami and NotHuman come here to see this if it's alright enough.

@Rep: Do you mean something like the Beast-Class servants and whatnot?

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm just not 100% sure given that the original animation and description involves Kiara sharing a collective orgy with Earth and everything on it (not making this up) and using that energy to attack you.

@Cross

If this goes through, probably.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I guess they decided to change it up from Fate/Extra to here, maybe? Going from just being larger than the earth to just being outright bigger than our solar system...

In any case, i still would like to have NEH and Kami come here and see what they think as they're the ones who seem to know very well what they're doing when it comes to this verse.

If they say yes by any chance, i'd go for this. But i'm on the fence with this kind for the moment.

 

[Promestein]

I mean, this would scale to Saver, right? And, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't Gilgamesh superior to him?

 

[KamiYasha]

Wikia screwing up with me by not posting what i wrote 2.0

As much as i would like to have Tier 4-ish, i'm not sure about this.

First:

Translations of Kiara/Beast III/R: Something Something Heaven's Hole; The NP of Beast III which breeds infinite demon pillars within its body. Her body is now a universe of its own, and a paradise. Anyone drawn into it loses their existence, with their consciousness liberated and their will melted. No matter how strong their body, or how much armour they have, this is meaningless inside Kiara's body, and they become as powerless as a newborn as they are liberated. Beast III is a hole in reality itself, but those drawn into the hole are overcome with ecstasy as they are erased. One could say that liberation from the reality of suffering is a form of salvation.

Banshoku Yuutai: EX A heretic art once used by Kiara in a certain cyber world. Supposedly a medical software program that separates the target's body, mind, and soul, stripping the soul naked (unprotected by the body and mind) allowing her to find problems and solve them. Kiara absorbed these unprotected souls, taking care to taste them fully, saying this was salvation. The ultimate form of charm, or enthrallment. This power has grown stronger with her as a Beast,

The beauty of Kiara, now a tenma (the Seductive Bodhisattva) with mara (the crown of the beast) on her head, rocks the sanity, reason, and logic of those who see her. Those who see her, or are seen by her, have to roll for a check to see if they can uphold their selves. Like a sanity check, except a Kiara point check. Sight, taste, hearing, smell, and touch all have their own saving rolls, and even slightly feeling/thinking that Kiara is beautiful is an fail. The person loses sight of their self, and after a slight bout of dizziness completely lose all sense of balance and reality. They become a follower of Kiara standing on the palm of the Bodhisattva.

Banshoku Yuutai: EX "When I opened my eyes, I was on an endless plain of flesh. The palm of the Seduvtive Bodhisattva. Kiara smiles, beyond the infinitely far-off horizon.

'All men are but beasts. Fleeting fruit, consuming and drowning in and melting into desire.'

If there were a goddess like a bodhisattva who could take in all of this beastliness upon herself, who could ever reject this massive, limitless love? Enlightenment and salvation are joyously freely at her fingertips. The path leads to Sesshouin, a paradise above heaven."

...No matter how much power one has, it is meaningless before the power of a tenma. It is difficult for anything that has reason, anything that knows pleasure, or anything that knows pain to escape from this salvation. Of course, this salvation is not at all any form of saving. The mercy of the bodhisattva is how this is seen from its victims. To Kiara, the followers on her palm are nameless masses that are no more than insects. Authority of the Beast: A A skill also known as "anti-mankind". A as a Beast, but said to fall to D when she changes to an Alter-Ego.

Logos Eater: EX A trait of the Kairaku-ten. A special skill branching off from Banshoku Yuutai. Provides a damage buff against any intelligent being with intelligence (pleasure), regardless of scale or structure. This also has its rank fall as an Alter Ego, to C so that it's basically just touching. Foreplay.

Nega-Saviour: A The result of a beast that decided to save only a world of its own, despite having the potential to be a Saviour. Completely negates all skills of Saviour and Ruler classes, increases chance of charm to all targets with magic below rank A.

Karma Phage: EX When Kiara's body became SE.RA.PH, she cut out her five senses - her erogenous zones - as skills, and gave them to others. She seems to have copied how BB cut out her love for humans and turned them into Alter-Egos. Frequently shortened to KP, they were named Body, Sight, Mouth, Spice and Organ. The Sentinels given these are able to use Kiara's authority, making them very powerful servants.

Heaven's Hole: A spinoff of magic also known as the Third Magic. It draws in matter with gravity like a black hole, but is actually a hole for disposal. The hole of heaven takes in the bad data of mankind, that which gets in the way of people doing good- all the desire in the world, and widens exponentially. It is a disgusting sight, but this hole is a necessary system for society, and it grows larger for as long as intelligent activities are carried out, building up within it the fearsome desires that humans should not have.

Love is a good thing, as is desire. But one should never try to turn love to pleasure. Love and desire should be things thought of as seperate. But when the soul of a saviour that loved and wished to pleasure humans reached the Third Magic, Sesshouin Kiara transformed into something inhuman. She tried to save all living things through pleasure, and become a receiving vessel for that pleasure, and use 7 billion lives for just herself, so that she could ******. There was no further goal, or anything after fulfillment, only salvation for mankind through pleasure. This is what decided her class. Kairaku-ten is a false name. This is the disaster that sought the shortest path to human salvation, Beast III/R. One of the seven human evils, the Beast of Lust.

The problem that i've with this is...the Power-scaling, also, I'm not sure if that is an explosion.

Amaterasu would scale because of being her>Kiara. The problem comes after and before this. Should Tiamat/Goetia scale to this? What about other Top Tiers, like Gil, Enkidu, Quetz, etc.

And finally but not less important...the Types, they exceed almost everything (aside Akasha/Shiki), what tier should they be? 4-A? I'm lost here.

 

[Promestein]

4-A is a ridiculous jump considering how big 4-B is, they'd just be 4-B.

 

[OwariNepgear]

The NP of Beast III which breeds infinite demon pillars within its body. Her body is now a universe of its ow, and a paradise.

Am i seeing what i am seeing? Shouldn't this make her somewhat stronger than that?

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

I mean, this would scale to Saver, right? And, forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't Gilgamesh superior to him?

Saver is superior to Kiara so he should scale "she is an exsistence close to Saver, a bodhisattva" meaning that she is comparable but not on the same level as Saver. IIRC there is no indication that Gil is superior to Saver. But Saver was defeated by Gil off screen but it could have just been Saver not taking the fight seriously since he was just trying to humour Twice.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

One thing can be certain, It's definitely not 5-A if she's that large. I think that despite being aspects of the planets, from what we know of the Types they're superior to all of the other Divine Spirits and other beings in the heirarchy.

Arcueid would be affected as well because she's stated to be the only one of having a chance of taking down Amaterasu in the whole cast.

 

[Reppuzan]

It may be best to put Beast Kiara's feats in a separate tab, since her skills are different and the name of the name and effects of the Noble Phantasm listed are completely different.

 

[KamiYasha]

Well, her profile states that she is the same entity of Extra/CCC.

 

[Reppuzan]

@KamiYasha

I was under the impression that Grand Order's Kiara is an alternate version of the original Kiara that was spurred to become the Bodhisattva by the Demon Pillars. Either way, the name of the Noble Phantasm and the inclusion of the Demon Pillars is completely different from the original version.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I think i agree with Rep on that last part of his, Kami. Even if she's the same, the way her attack is from when she originally appeared (Extra/CCC) to that of FGO recently looks pretty different.

In the former, she was large enough to dwarf the Earth. Whereas here, she's practically large enough to have all of our planets in the solar system(?) to orbit around her.

This seems pretty complicated of how we're gonna work this out, let alone who would even scale to this.

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Reppu's suggestion of leaving this in a separate tab seems like the best option to me, since Beast III Kiara is basically a stronger version of CCC Kiara.

As for who scales to this... no one, i guess? It would be different if we had a clear statement comparing FGO Kiara to CCC Kiara, but right now, Beast III seems to be much stronger than anyone else. Though the Types are supposed to be the strongest beings around, aren't they? So i think they're the only ones that should get any scaling here.

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

At the same time, Ea is supposed to be able to accomplish the same feat as Slash Emperor, killing the Types by showing the "Truth" of the World.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

So if the types get scaled then Ea would get boosted in turn at least?

 

[NotEvenHuman]

Isn't that more of a compatibility thing, rather than power?

 

[Reppuzan]

@NEH

It would still have to scale for having the ability to accomplish the exact same feat through the exact same set of principles.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

This is really just more complicated than I seriously thought it would be.

So if we take FGO Kiara into consideration for reals, she'd get about like a possibly 4-B rating give or take. And in terms of scaling, nobody except perhaps the Types could get this....jesus...

 

[KamiYasha]

and Amaterasu.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oh yeah, her too i guess.

IDK, what does everyone else here think of this?

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Amaterasu and no Arcueid despite the fact that Arcueid is the only one who could bring Amaterasu to a point where she could lose?


If you're upgrading Amaterasu, Arcueid needs to be in there as well. If not for her base at its strongest, but also for Archetype: Earth.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Galaxian

Arcueid is Type:Moon and Type:Earth, therefore she'd qualify as explained earlier.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

@Reppuzan Alright cool, just wanted to make sure since she wasn't mentioned explicitly.

 

[Ramesses_the_Sun_King]

Shouldn't Saver scale as well?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ramesses

Probably, given that they're both Bodhisattvas.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

^There's two?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cross

Kiara has been referred to as the "Devil's Bodhisattva" while Saver is stated to be one outright while Kiara was approaching the status as one. As a Beast, she should be more than comparable though.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oooh.

 

[KamiYasha]

I didin't mentioned Arc, because she is kind of a Type. She obviously scales to it.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

If her status as a Beast is part of the justification, would this apply at all to Tiamat or Goetia?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Galaxian

Well, by her status as a Beast, I'm saying that she's considerably stronger than her original state in CCC, I'm not sure if this would scale to the other Beasts since this is far beyond anything they've shown.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Bump

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Since this seems pretty much decided, when can we see these changes applied?

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Bump

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Bump