The Presence(Yahweh) Ability Addition.

[VeryGoofyToddler]

In today’s thread, I will be going over some needed power addition for Yahweh. I will also provide the reasoning and context behind each feat.

Absorption(Power) - It is mentioned several times that Yahweh is the creator of both Michael and Lucifer, he was the one to give them their power. As his creation, he can not only can he destroy them but also take their power and revoke them to use it, sort of absorbing it back into him because it's his power. (Lucifer Vol.1 #37)

• Power Nullification for the revoking of power.
• Supernatural Willpower he is will above all else.

Age Manipulation - Yahweh has taken the form that dreams shape him to be. So he uses a form that appears as an old man but we see in his conversation with Elaine he can use anyone of age. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Air Manipulation - Yahweh is the substance in every part of Creation. With every single concept and his creation, Michael was remaking air. Remember the Demiurgic Power is God’s power, not Michael's.

• So both abilities should be given to both Michael and Yahweh.

Avatar Creation - Yahweh is said to have many forms. He has to usually directly create an avatar to act upon. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

BFR - Yahweh removed Elaine from the siege on the Silver City and the destruction of the Throne. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

Biological Manipulation - Yahweh created all the angels to be his essence without shape, as eternal as he is. He can remake all of Existence including all sentient beings. He can also reform and merge Lucifer with him as a singular being. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Blessed - Yahweh blessed both Lucifer and Elaine. When he handed Elaine Creation he made sure that it would stick to her as a metaphor for her newfound responsibility. (Lucifer Vol.1 #69)

Causality Manipulation - Yahweh's actions will affect everything from the beginning of time. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

Chaos Manipulation - Yahweh could undo everything that is happening in the chaos ensuing in Creation. More importantly, he gave them choices to make order or chaos. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

Clairvoyance(Visual Linking) - Yahweh can take any form and use beings knowing their memories and what they can do. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

• Hive Mind because he can share memories as he did know what Elaine enjoyed.

Concept Manipulation - Yahweh can make beings that embody the concepts. The Endless themselves are just a side-effects of his take on Creation making. (Lucifer Vol.1 #52)

Cosmic Awareness - Yahweh knows everything that happens in his Creation. Even understood Lucifer's message and understand everything that was under the Plan. (Lucifer Vol.1 #40)

• He does have Omniscient but might as well include all details.

Creation - Only the power bestowed by God can create out of nothing. (Lucifer Vol.1 #21)

Darkness Manipulation - From the Darkness, he created Light. (Sandman Presents: Lucifer - The Morningstar Option Vol.1 #1)

Dimensional Manipulation - Yahweh could make a dimension that cannot exist from anything. A carpet of reality under the real one that looks exactly as Elaine Belloc remembered. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

• Pocket Reality Manipulation would be some sort of subset given the logic behind it.

Electrical Manipulation - Yahweh destroys Lilith into oblivion with an electric zap. (Lucifer Vol.1 #69)

Empowerment - Yahweh empowered Lucifer and Michael with his Demiurgic and Lightbringer Power. (Lucifer Vol.1 #26)

• Power Bestowal will also be part of this.

Existence Erasure - Yahweh has earned Lilith from existence and is now only in the Void where all paradox happens. He also could unmake the Archangels at will. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Genius Intelligence - Everything Lucifer knows was because Yahweh taught him. The King of Manipulation learned from the best. (Lucifer Vol.1 #38)

Illusion Creation - The Mansions are illusions that play with your mind. Telling what's real and fake is quite impossible to understand. (Lucifer Vol.1 #38)

Immortality(Type 9) - God isn't bound to Death but more so than that he is infinite and eternal. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Incorporeality - Yahweh doesn't have a form technically. Even in his light form which doesn't exist as a real thing, just one he takes to talk to Lucifer. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

• Yes, he has Abstract Existence but let's just say, I'm being petty.

Invulnerability - Yahweh isn't bound to death. When Geyes and Garames had his power they became immune to Lightbringer's powers. (Lucifer Vol.1 #42)

• He already has Death Manipulation and resistance to it.

Life Manipulation - Yahweh's plans involve both Life and Death. (Lucifer Vol.1 #37)

Light Manipulation - He is the Light as well and can form into a perfect form of Light. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Matter Manipulation - Yahweh's Will defines everything. Every part of Creation when falling apart Michael was using God’s power to renew every atom in Existence. Atoms make up matter. (Lucifer Vol.1 #53)

• Unholy Manipulation creator of both Heaven and Hell.

Memory Manipulation - When Lucifer and Michael enter the thought of Yahweh, they saw all these distinct parts that he wishes weren't there from his memory. (Lucifer Vol.1 #38)

• Retrocognition goes well with it.

Nonexistent Physiology - Yahweh is one with the Void as explained throughout #75. His real form is one that is infinite and eternal as is the Void. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

• If we consider the Void 1-C then Yahweh is easily that because it's of his mind and body. So Transduality(Type 3) goes here.

Organic Manipulation - Michael uses his father's power to create matter both organic and inorganic. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Perception Manipulation - Yahweh shows Lucifer and Michael of what should be known, they were not needed and it had been for thousands of Creation before them. (Lucifer Vol.1 #39)

• Transformation should be here.

Physics Manipulation - Yahweh defines all the rules in Creation. Physics would be one of them. (Lucifer Vol.1 #69)

Summoning - Summons both Elaine and Lilith. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

 

[Robo432343]

Immortality(Type 9) - God isn't bound to Death but more so than that he is infinite and eternal. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Being infinite and eternal is immortality type 1

You need proof that the presence's true self exist in another plane (which is the void)

I agree with the rest but neutral on td type 3

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Being infinite and eternal is immortality type 1

You need proof that the presence's true self exist in another plane (which is the void)

All of #75 explains it:

Lucifer (Monkey King) jumps to the edge of Infinity(Void) yet Buddha(God) will still exist there.

Lucifer mentions everywhere(Void and Creation) Yahweh's will is still there.

Infinite and Eternal are the exact descriptions of both Yahweh and the Void.

The Void is the mind of God where ideas float as a distraction in his mind.

He is the Void. He takes form for his lower creation to comprehend. The entirety of #75 is explaining that God is everything including the Void.

 

[Xearsay]

Immortality(Type 9) - God isn't bound to Death but more so than that he is infinite and eternal. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Being unbound by death doesn’t give you immortality type 9.

Invulnerability - Yahweh isn't bound to death. When Geyes and Garames had his power they became immune to Lightbringer's powers. (Lucifer Vol.1 #42)

The scan only says that within the Presences domain, Lucifer is dependent on the Presence and due to this Lucifer has no power against the giants. It doesn’t necessarily say the giants are invulnerable.

Nonexistent Physiology - Yahweh is one with the Void as explained throughout #75. His real form is one that is infinite and eternal as is the Void. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

• If we consider the Void 1-C then Yahweh is easily that because it's of his mind and body. So Transduality(Type 3) goes here.

The point about the monkey and the Buddha story is that even though the Monkey jumped across creation and all of its worlds to the other side of infinity, the monkey was still within the Buddhas reach and under his influence. However, the Void is outside of creation and is directly stated to be outside of the Presences domain. Hence why Lucifer escaped his function.

Also how would any of this grant Transduality type 3?

Incorporeality - Yahweh doesn't have a form technically. Even in his light form which doesn't exist as a real thing, just one he takes to talk to Lucifer. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

None of this is said in the scan you linked.

 

[Robo432343]

Being unbound by death doesn’t give you immortality type 9.

OP is arguing how the true form of the presence is the void which exist somewhere separately

 

[Xearsay]

OP is arguing how the true form of the presence is the void which exist somewhere separately

Yeah and I addressed that as well later on in my comment.

 

[Robo432343]

ok yeah i disagree with immortality type 9 and NEP
where is that guidebook from??

 

[PrinceStories]

If we consider the Void 1-C then Yahweh is easily that because it's of his mind and body. So Transduality(Type 3) goes here.

why can this get Transduality type 3?, and where did Yahweh get Transduality type 3?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Being unbound by death doesn’t give you immortality type 9.

It's as if you couldn't read for comprehension rather than make an arduous claim. That part is just a secondary reason and isn't the main point which was Yahweh and the Void are the same thing.

The scan only says that within the Presences domain, Lucifer is dependent on the Presence and due to this Lucifer has no power against the giants. It doesn’t necessarily say the giants are invulnerable.

This is not what the scan is trying to depict. Lucifer isn't necessarily dependent on the Presence, the idea is that Lucifer can't do anything to the Presence. The Titans became “Yahweh” and the very power Lucifer shines is his father. He could still shine it without him but he can't do anything against him.

The point about the monkey and the Buddha story is that even though the Monkey jumped across creation and all of its worlds to the other side of infinity, the monkey was still within the Buddhas reach and under his influence. However, the Void is outside of creation and is directly stated to be outside of the Presences domain. Hence why Lucifer escaped his function.

Except the scan doesn't say anything of that nature. The domain is a reference to Yahweh's Creation and at the time he was still in Creation. In #75 there were several hints that Yahweh's true form without taking the form of what dreams shape him to be is one with the Void. The Presence can still do anything to Lucifer even if he isn't there because his will extends to everything.

Also how would any of this grant Transduality type 3?

Let's see what's required for that:

Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within the scope of an entire level of reality and qualitatively superior or immune to the effects caused within it. Furthermore, these characters exist beyond the classical states of contradiction-allowing logic on some level of existence. That is to say, for any statement A about them they are in a state that can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false. And so they must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier.

Yahweh is beyond all the comprehension of all the beings in Creation and also all of it's rule and detail. Not to mention how the very nature of the Void is completely beyond the norms of logic and the only sense you have there is your willpower to see things that are ludicrously hard to imagine. There's no amount of contradiction to put Yahweh in any form of possibility where logic could explain what he is and what he can do. He puts logic in his nature to make sense, he can make things that cannot exist, and he can make randomness appear so random that he would allow himself to be fooled only to know why.

None of this is said in the scan you linked.

Yahweh or God doesn't have a “form.” I was explaining that he took a form so that it could speak to his creation such as Lucifer. Maybe read it properly.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

OP is arguing how the true form of the presence is the void which exist somewhere separately

There's plenty of evidence. Convincing Xearsey to agree to this view would be harder than catching a butterfly in a hurricane.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Yeah and I addressed that as well later on in my comment.

You certainly did address it without actually thinking about what the scans actually said as to what you interpret to make a false premise as a counter-rebuttal. Very refutable evidence to show how they are different when the entire issue was centered and revolved around the idea they are the same. Keep it up and keep misinterpreting what things actually say.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

why can this get Transduality type 3?, and where did Yahweh get Transduality type 3?

It goes with the tiering because I didn't feel it was necessary to individualize every little detail when it should be evident and obvious what tiers go with which.

 

[PrinceStories]

It goes with the tiering because I didn't feel it was necessary to individualize every little detail when it should be evident and obvious what tiers go with which.

did you explain yahweh's transduality type 3 comes from tiering The void?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

did you explain yahweh's transduality type 3 comes from tiering The void?

I have literally explained it multiple times. Yahweh is the form that humans shape based on what they think he looks like. Naturally, they created their gods based on their beliefs and Yahweh is molded into shape. However, he still is infinite and eternal, he just dresses up to how people see him. His actual infinity is that of the Void. Boundless, Paradoxical, Infinite, and Eternal.

 

[Gasper]

In today’s thread, I will be going over some needed power addition for Yahweh. I will also provide the reasoning and context behind each feat.

Absorption(Power) - It is mentioned several times that Yahweh is the creator of both Michael and Lucifer, he was the one to give them their power. As his creation, he can not only can he destroy them but also take their power and revoke them to use it, sort of absorbing it back into him because it's his power. (Lucifer Vol.1 #37)

• Power Nullification for the revoking of power.
• Supernatural Willpower he is will above all else.

Looks fine.

Age Manipulation - Yahweh has taken the form that dreams shape him to be. So he uses a form that appears as an old man but we see in his conversation with Elaine he can use anyone of age. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

That's not age manipulation. That's more of a shape-shifting or something.

Air Manipulation - Yahweh is the substance in every part of Creation. With every single concept and his creation, Michael was remaking air. Remember the Demiurgic Power is God’s power, not Michael's.

• So both abilities should be given to both Michael and Yahweh.

Looks fine.

Avatar Creation - Yahweh is said to have many forms. He has to usually directly create an avatar to act upon. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

Agree.

BFR - Yahweh removed Elaine from the siege on the Silver City and the destruction of the Throne. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

Fine i guess.

Biological Manipulation - Yahweh created all the angels to be his essence without shape, as eternal as he is. He can remake all of Existence including all sentient beings. He can also reform and merge Lucifer with him as a singular being. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

How is that biological manipulation?

Blessed - Yahweh blessed both Lucifer and Elaine. When he handed Elaine Creation he made sure that it would stick to her as a metaphor for her newfound responsibility. (Lucifer Vol.1 #69)

Fine

Causality Manipulation - Yahweh's actions will affect everything from the beginning of time. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

Looks fine

Cosmic Awareness - Yahweh knows everything that happens in his Creation. Even understood Lucifer's message and understand everything that was under the Plan. (Lucifer Vol.1 #40)

• He does have Omniscient but might as well include all details.

I don't think he is omniscient, there are some things he dosen't know about.

Existence Erasure - Yahweh has earned Lilith from existence and is now only in the Void where all paradox happens. He also could unmake the Archangels at will. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

The lower scan could be deconstruction.

"Immortality(Type 9) - God isn't bound to Death but more so than that he is infinite and eternal. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)"
Not immo type 9.
That's immortality type 1 and 5.

Incorporeality - Yahweh doesn't have a form technically. Even in his light form which doesn't exist as a real thing, just one he takes to talk to Lucifer. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

• Yes, he has Abstract Existence but let's just say, I'm being petty.

Looks fine.

Invulnerability - Yahweh isn't bound to death. When Geyes and Garames had his power they became immune to Lightbringer's powers. (Lucifer Vol.1 #42)

• He already has Death Manipulation and resistance to it.

I Don't think that's invulnerability tho

Memory Manipulation - When Lucifer and Michael enter the thought of Yahweh, they saw all these distinct parts that he wishes weren't there from his memory. (Lucifer Vol.1 #38)

I am not sure if that's memory Manipulation. Did he manipulate any memory? Looks like Lucifer and Michael just entered he's memories, dosen't really seem like it.

Nonexistent Physiology - Yahweh is one with the Void as explained throughout #75. His real form is one that is infinite and eternal as is the Void. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

• If we consider the Void 1-C then Yahweh is easily that because it's of his mind and body. So Transduality(Type 3) goes here.

Disagree hard with transduality type 3.
You need to be above all concepts and all dualities to have that.

Physics Manipulation - Yahweh defines all the rules in Creation. Physics would be one of them. (Lucifer Vol.1 #69)

That looks like speculation to me.

Summoning - Summons both Elaine and Lilith. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

Fine.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

That's not age manipulation. That's most of a shape-shifting or something.

Age manipulation is something he can do. We don't know what he actually did to appear as an old man but he created it that way. Clearly, he aged himself to fit an image. Given he can appear in any form of any age then it should be fine. The scan isn't particularly the best but the reasoning should be the main point to focus on.

How is that biological manipulation?

There's a section on matter manipulation under this key ability. Lucifer has in the past shown it and his powers come from his father. He would remake Lucifer's entire “biology” which is the light essence to remake him into something new. The only problem I see is that Lucifer may or may not be organic/inorganic.

I don't think he is omniscient, there are some things he dosen't know about.

He states he is Omniscient. He can however play with randomness and yet he would still know of it. There's the paradox, that he can create a randomness he doesn't know but he still holds all the cards and knows what happens. It's a loop.

The lower scan could be deconstruction.

He already has that ability.

"Immortality(Type 9) - God isn't bound to Death but more so than that he is infinite and eternal. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)"
Not immo type 9.
That's immortality type 1 and 5.

Being the Void is type 9. He can't be erased, he can't die, and his form exists beyond all logic.

I Don't think that's invulnerability tho

They were not vulnerable to Lucifer's attack because they are now “Yahweh” with all his might and will.

I am not sure if that's memory Manipulation. Did he manipulate any memory? Looks like Lucifer and Michael just entered he's memories, dosen't really seem like it.

The Mansions play with your mind. These memories only play out as this sort of disorder he wants to forget. He manipulates his own mind into believing something else. He also manipulated Lucifer because the War and the Fall was his idea, not Lucifer, he had no context for his actions.

Disagree hard with transduality type 3.
You need to be above all concepts and all dualities to have that.

He is. What duality/concept is he bound to?

That looks like speculation to me.

Psychics exist in the Universe. He created the Universe and all its a law which would include Pshyic. How would physics exist and even function if he didn't define it with his will?

 

[PrinceStories]

I have literally explained it multiple times. Yahweh is the form that humans shape based on what they think he looks like. Naturally, they created their gods based on their beliefs and Yahweh is molded into shape. However, he still is infinite and eternal, he just dresses up to how people see him. His actual infinity is that of the Void. Boundless, Paradoxical, Infinite, and Eternal.

your explanation does not prove that yahweh has type 3 transduality, transduality itself is acquired when a character transcends/outside/independent of dual concepts like life and death

 

[Gasper]

He states he is Omniscient. He can however play with randomness and yet he would still know of it. There's the paradox, that he can create a randomness he doesn't know but he still holds all the cards and knows what happens. It's a loop.

Eternity from marvel was also steted to be omniscient. Dosen't mean he is. It's a statement that's been contradicted.

Being the Void is type 9. He can't be erased, he can't die, and his form exists beyond all logic.

No, at best that's immo type 8.

He is. What duality/concept is he bound to?

Any scans saying he's beyond all dualities or concepts?

Psychics exist in the Universe. He created the Universe and all its a law which would include Pshyic. How would physics exist and even function if he didn't define it with his will?

You can say the same thing for every character who created universe.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

your explanation does not prove that yahweh has type 3 transduality, transduality itself is acquired when a character transcends/outside/indenpendent dual concept

Alritgh let's break it down.

Transduality is the state of being wherein an entity exists independently of, and qualitatively beyond, various dual systems, ranging from very specific, limited sets of dual distinctions to duality itself on a conceptual level

Yahweh exists independently of any and all forms of duality he is beyond each and every one of them down to its conceptual level and he also made it.

If the 0 and 1 of binary systems can be considered a duality, a transdual character’s fundamental existence might be definable as being in-between the numbers of 0 and 1, being 0 and 1 at once, being defined as being a “2”, or as not being describable through any numbers at all at the higher levels.

Yahweh defines all variables and rules. Let's say he creates a dual concept one to represent everything and nothing, he would be creating both logic and is it at the same thing. He is the variable and the creator of it, he can bend the logic of it as well as be defined with that new logic. He can't be anything else because he is everything else which also points out that “anything” would be “everything” would be it. Since he is infinite he can do this and there has been a showing where he actually struggled because infinity is always infinity.

Transduality is not simply nonduality, but additionally requires something like qualitative superiority or immunity to attacks bound to the duality in question.

The Endless are ideas but they personified the very concept itself. Yahweh is superior to them to the point where he could remove the logic of the necessity of the Endless. Reality and Dream are one and the same yet to him they are nothing more than whims to which he created. He doesn't need to dream or need of reality and yet he makes it and defines it both. The dream is reality yet dream he is one of that but also is that. Yahweh sees it as just a point if he removes it he can remake a logic without it. His paradoxical he can make logic out of non-logic.

A duality refers to a logical duality for the purpose of this ability. That is to say, that the duality in question can be decribed as "A" and "not A" where A is some object or attribute. So, for example, fire and water are not a duality. The duality of fire would be fire and not fire. The duality of existence would be existence and not existence, which could equivalently be formulated as existence and nonexistence or existence and void.

Ironic am I right.

Type 3 refers to characters whose existence belongs to alternate logical states which can't be described just by saying that they exist in both or neither state of a duality, but instead in a unique third state.

Also ironic since his state of Void and taking shape literally explains it.

 

[Gasper]

Alritgh let's break it down.

Yahweh exists independently of any and all forms of duality he is beyond each and every one of them down to its conceptual level and he also made it.


Yahweh defines all variables and rules. Let's say he creates a dual concept one to represent everything and nothing, he would be creating both logic and is it at the same thing. He is the variable and the creator of it, he can bend the logic of it as well as be defined with that new logic. He can't be anything else because he is everything else which also points out that “anything” would be “everything” would be it. Since he is infinite he can do this and there has been a showing where he actually struggled because infinity is always infinity.


The Endless are ideas but they personified the very concept itself. Yahweh is superior to them to the point where he could remove the logic of the necessity of the Endless. Reality and Dream are one and the same yet to him they are nothing more than whims to which he created. He doesn't need to dream or need of reality and yet he makes it and defines it both. The dream is reality yet dream he is one of that but also is that. Yahweh sees it as just a point if he removes it he can remake a logic without it. His paradoxical he can make logic out of non-logic.


Ironic am I right.


Also ironic since his state of Void and taking shape literally explains it.

Mind posting any scans?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Eternity from marvel was also steted to be omniscient. Dosen't mean he is. It's a statement that's been contradicted.

To Eternity. Where was this contradicted? In none of his appearances does it mention he doesn't know of something. It's always just characters like Lucifer trying to poke a hole that's too shallow to be poked upon.

No, at best that's immo type 8.

His true form is the Void which is separate from the realm where he can't even be killed either way.

You can't erase, kill, or destroy Yahweh much less the Void that exists beyond all logic.

He acts through his form “Yahweh” yet has the very variable equivalent to the Void.

That literally grants him Type 9 and comparing it to Tupe 8 is a night and day difference. Nearly anyone can get Type 8. Type 8 also has a limit to that immortality when you destroy set point. When will that set point ever come to Yahweh if he cannot die by any and all mean?

Any scans saying he's beyond all dualities or concepts?

He literally not only made it but defined it as well. He is beyond what he creates there's nothing else that is infinite and eternal except the Void.

You can say the same thing for every character who created universe.

The universe in Vertigo is all-encompassing Creation. He made all the concepts in it and can create beings who do the same. Context of settings matters since a “Universe” is defined in many matters and they would directly have to not only create all its parts but define it as Yahweh did. If they match that then you can say the same “for those characters.”

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Mind posting any scans?

What I said is literally highlighted in the thread. I explained in more detail what can happen. Those situations I created aren't in the story for direct reference. I don't actually need to because it's explaining what exactly goes behind the context of his powers.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

If you are here to disagree to a point then feel free, I'm not going to keep answering this ongoing cycle of reiterating the same question. So for the majority that agrees on a certain addition then feel free as the changes will be implemented soon. I thought this was fairly straightforward forward but explaining every little detail is annoying.

 

[Robo432343]

ok then immo 9 and NEP seems fine
you dont need to have scans for the void being nonexistent right?

 

[Gasper]

To Eternity. Where was this contradicted? In none of his appearances does it mention he doesn't know of something. It's always just characters like Lucifer trying to poke a hole that's too shallow to be poked upon.

Literally in every single comic he appears in. One time he was also stated to be omnipresent and omnipotent too. In one comic he was outraced by a speedster.

His true form is the Void which is separate from the realm where he can't even be killed either way.

You can't erase, kill, or destroy Yahweh much less the Void that exists beyond all logic.

He acts through his form “Yahweh” yet has the very variable equivalent to the Void.

That literally grants him Type 9 and comparing it to Tupe 8 is a night and day difference. Nearly anyone can get Type 8. Type 8 also has a limit to that immortality when you destroy set point. When will that set point ever come to Yahweh if he cannot die by any and all mean?

Actually, type 9 is fine, he does use avatars yeah.

He literally not only made it but defined it as well. He is beyond what he creates there's nothing else that is infinite and eternal except the Void.

Again, i need some scans. And just being the void isn't enough to be non dual.

The universe in Vertigo is all-encompassing Creation. He made all the concepts in it and can create beings who do the same. Context of settings matters since a “Universe” is defined in many matters and they would directly have to not only create all its parts but define it as Yahweh did. If they match that then you can say the same “for those characters.”

Nothing changes, all of creation or universe, you need to show the scan specifically mentioning he created physics. And you think he also created mathematics? Because that's also a concept in physical Universe.

 

[Robo432343]

altho i don't see transduality type 3, i can see transduality type 2

The void is stated to be outside creation, including all of its laws, physical variables etc but at the same time its also connected to creation

 

[Gasper]

altho i don't see transduality type 3, i can see transduality type 2

The void is stated to be outside creation, including all of its laws, physical variables etc but at the same time its also connected to creation

Type 2 is fine.

 

[PrinceStories]

Yahweh exists independently of any and all forms of duality he is beyond each and every one of them down to its conceptual level and he also made it.

Yahweh is independent from all dualities because he existed before creation which contains all of Yahweh's plan, this plan contains things which contain duality such as death and life

Yahweh defines all variables and rules. Let's say he creates a dual concept one to represent everything and nothing, he would be creating both logic and is it at the same thing. He is the variable and the creator of it, he can bend the logic of it as well as be defined with that new logic. He can't be anything else because he is everything else which also points out that “anything” would be “everything” would be it. Since he is infinite he can do this and there has been a showing where he actually struggled because infinity is always infinity.

this is pretty nlf where is yahweh creating all of that

The Endless are ideas but they personified the very concept itself. Yahweh is superior to them to the point where he could remove the logic of the necessity of the Endless. Reality and Dream are one and the same yet to him they are nothing more than whims to which he created. He doesn't need to dream or need of reality and yet he makes it and defines it both. The dream is reality yet dream he is one of that but also is that. Yahweh sees it as just a point if he removes it he can remake a logic without it. His paradoxical he can make logic out of non-logic.

The Endless are only concepts that govern reality, they are not dual concepts as you have explained

Also ironic since his state of Void and taking shape literally explains it.

i don't know where you can think like that, all I need is proof that it can get transduality type 3

 

[Robo432343]

@VeryGoofyToddler are you fine with transduality type 2?

 

[PrinceStories]

altho i don't see transduality type 3, i can see transduality type 2

The void is stated to be outside creation, including all of its laws, physical variables etc but at the same time its also connected to creation

I agree that transduality type 2 for Yahweh seems fine

 

[Xearsay]

It's as if you couldn't read for comprehension rather than make an arduous claim. That part is just a secondary reason and isn't the main point which was Yahweh and the Void are the same thing.

And if you read for comprehension you’d know that I responded to your main point later on in my comment anyway.

the idea is that Lucifer can't do anything to the Presence.

Not being able to do anything against someone =/= you’re invulnerable to them.

Except the scan doesn't say anything of that nature. The domain is a reference to Yahweh's Creation and at the time he was still in Creation. In #75 there were several hints that Yahweh's true form without taking the form of what dreams shape him to be is one with the Void. The Presence can still do anything to Lucifer even if he isn't there because his will extends to everything.

Yes, that’s what I’m literally saying. When Lucifer went outside Yahwehs creation he was outside Yahwehs domain.

There’s literally nothing that proves they’re the same and you haven’t posted any evidence for such a thing. People just think because they’re both considered infinite and eternal that they’re the same thing, even though that doesn’t prove jackshit. Also no, the Presences will extends to his creation similarly to how the Buddhas will extended to his creation. The void is not encompassed within the Presences creation.

Yahweh or God doesn't have a “form.” I was explaining that he took a form so that it could speak to his creation such as Lucifer. Maybe read it properly.

Can I see a scan saying he’s formless?

 

[Xearsay]

Yahweh is beyond all the comprehension of all the beings in Creation and also all of its rule and detail. Not to mention how the very nature of the Void is completely beyond the norms of logic and the only sense you have there is your willpower to see things that are ludicrously hard to imagine. There's no amount of contradiction to put Yahweh in any form of possibility where logic could explain what he is and what he can do. He puts logic in his nature to make sense, he can make things that cannot exist, and he can make randomness appear so random that he would allow himself to be fooled only to know why.

Also I forgot to address this in my previous comment.

Where are the scans for literally everything you’re saying? You keep making claims like this.

“The Void is beyond the norms of logic.”

“There is no amount of contradiction that can put Yahweh in any form where logic can explain what he is.”

However there is never a scan provided for what you’re talking about.

 

[Deagonx]

I think it is important to recognize that simply by virtue of being God, he's going to have a wide wide wide range of capabilities, not all of which need to be tediously described in his profile, because most of them can more or less be chalked up to the reality warping that he already has noted in his profile. So I don't think things like "age manipulation" are prudent to include in his profile.

With that said, going through this list of abilities, there are many instances where your scans do not support what you are saying. It is crucial to avoid turning opinions/conjecture into a hyper-link to a scan, because it gives the impression that the scan very clearly indicates what is being said, and often times people will skim over it (not wanting to tediously fact-check a dozen scans).

For instance:

Chaos Manipulation - Yahweh could undo everything that is happening in the chaos ensuing in Creation. More importantly, he gave them choices to make order or chaos. (Lucifer Vol.1 #68)

The word chaos isn't present in the scan linked, and all he really alludes to is giving people free-will/self-agency. This doesn't really support chaos manipulation at all.

Given his role, I am sure he does have that power, but again, we should avoid tediously listing every possible permutation of his nigh-omnipotence as a distinct ability -- especially if there aren't incredibly direct scans to support it.

Moreover, a few of these are redundant to abilities that are already listed in his profile. For instance, he may not have "cosmic awareness" but he does have omniscience, which is greater than and encompasses cosmic awareness.

Creation - Only the power bestowed by God can create out of nothing. (Lucifer Vol.1 #21)

Self explanatory. Surprised he didn't already have it.

Concept Manipulation - Yahweh can make beings that embody the concepts. The Endless themselves are just a side-effects of his take on Creation making. (Lucifer Vol.1 #52)

Looks good.

Immortality(Type 9) - God isn't bound to Death but more so than that he is infinite and eternal. (Lucifer Vol.1 #75)

I think his type 1 immortality is sufficient here, but not Type 9.

If we consider the Void 1-C then Yahweh is easily that because it's of his mind and body. So Transduality(Type 3) goes here.

I don't think Type 3 is supported, but Type 2 should be fine.

 

[Gasper]

I think his type 1 immortality is sufficient here, but not Type 9.

He in fact does use avatars, so i think that's fine.

 

[Robo432343]

if the presence being the void is true, then immortality 9 is fine

as for the monkey analogy, it means that even though Lucifer believed that he could escape the presence's plan by creating his own universe outside, in the Void, the Presence is there, one with the Void.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

I think it is important to recognize that simply by virtue of being God, he's going to have a wide wide wide range of capabilities, not all of which need to be tediously described in his profile, because most of them can more or less be chalked up to the reality warping that he already has noted in his profile. So I don't think things like "age manipulation" are prudent to include in his profile.

With that said, going through this list of abilities, there are many instances where your scans do not support what you are saying. It is crucial to avoid turning opinions/conjecture into a hyper-link to a scan, because it gives the impression that the scan very clearly indicates what is being said, and often times people will skim over it (not wanting to tediously fact-check a dozen scans).

For instance:


The word chaos isn't present in the scan linked, and all he really alludes to is giving people free-will/self-agency. This doesn't really support chaos manipulation at all.

Given his role, I am sure he does have that power, but again, we should avoid tediously listing every possible permutation of his nigh-omnipotence as a distinct ability -- especially if there aren't incredibly direct scans to support it.

Moreover, a few of these are redundant to abilities that are already listed in his profile. For instance, he may not have "cosmic awareness" but he does have omniscience, which is greater than and encompasses cosmic awareness.


Self explanatory. Surprised he didn't already have it.


Looks good.


I think his type 1 immortality is sufficient here, but not Type 9.


I don't think Type 3 is supported, but Type 2 should be fine.

Should go with what the majority agrees. TD Type 3 was not agreed upon by anyone so we can leave it out.

Although I still think he should have Type 9, everyone else seems to disagree but Chaos Manipulation would still have to be since order and chaos can refer to anyone. A war is “chaotic” and a disorder to order that he can fix.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

if the presence being the void is true, then immortality 9 is fine

as for the monkey analogy, it means that even though Lucifer believed that he could escape the presence's plan by creating his own universe outside, in the Void, the Presence is there, one with the Void.

That's where my point is. So far TD(Type 3), I will admit is questionable so I'll leave it out but Type 9 Immo makes sense, I don't see why people don't see it.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

@VeryGoofyToddler are you fine with transduality type 2?

I'm not but if the majority said otherwise, then let's give him type 2.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

And if you read for comprehension you’d know that I responded to your main point later on in my comment anyway.

I'll address it each time.

Not being able to do anything against someone =/= you’re invulnerable to them.

Lucifer did do something but it happens to not do anything because they were invulnerable to harm at that point when they became Yahweh.

Yes, that’s what I’m literally saying. When Lucifer went outside Yahwehs creation he was outside Yahwehs domain.

Yahweh's domain isn't just creation. It's everywhere because Lucifer is his “creation” he is still part of him. He still held all the cards and he cannot fix the logic he has a creator.

There’s literally nothing that proves they’re the same and you haven’t posted any evidence for such a thing. People just think because they’re both considered infinite and eternal that they’re the same thing, even though that doesn’t prove jackshit. Also no, the Presences will extends to his creation similarly to how the Buddhas will extended to his creation. The void is not encompassed within the Presences creation.

It does as the whole idea of being infinite and eternal must be cemented in one being. If someone else is infinite and eternal that would be contradicted and the analogy of Buddha and the Monkey King explains it.

The Void and Yahweh are one and the same. His creation doesn't matter because it doesn't have a tie to the Void. I never said he made the Void within his domain, I said they are the same one is an endless nothing, and the other an infinite being without limit taking form. The whole point of #75 points this out.

Can I see a scan saying he’s formless?

He tells Lucifer he only acts through avatar.
Mike Carey states we shape our gods.
Lucifer tells him hiding in flesh is grotesque.

It's pretty obvious he doesn't have a form but takes one. Even to Elaine.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Also I forgot to address this in my previous comment.

Where are the scans for literally everything you’re saying? You keep making claims like this.

“The Void is beyond the norms of logic.”

“There is no amount of contradiction that can put Yahweh in any form where logic can explain what he is.”

However there is never a scan provided for what you’re talking about.

Uh, in the Void all matters come from perception and the ability to comprehend things that aren't natural.

You can see time yet it doesn't exist. You can feel the space yet it's not there. Every logic falls in meaning because anything you can grasp would take willpower beyond imagination. Liloth was erased from Existence but in the Void she can exist because there is no “time” where he died. All things are infinitely stacked on top of each other and no amount of logic can explain what is can be seen.


As for Yahweh, no one including Michael and Lucifer understand his nature. Elaine as the Demiurge would still go crazy if he doesn't use a form. His nature cannot be comprehended and can just make things impossible and possible.