Dragon Ball: Hit's Reactive Evolution?

[RadicalMrR]

Doesn't Hit's "Self Improvment" work the same way as Reactive Evolution?

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=33853

Hit approaches Goku and the two bump fists, then fly to opposite sides of the arena. As they prepare to recommence fighting, Hit shows off another new pose, which Beerus notes he must have invented to match his improved strength (similar to what he did last episode).

^And Herms confirming it happenend at least 2 times

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Hmm, yes it should as the defination of hit's self improvment is "Quickly grows stronger and more efficient with his techniques, if sufficiently challenged during a fight."

and the defination for reactive evolution is "The ability to develop adaptations, powers, or skills in response to immediate threats."

So, in short.... yeah

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Mmmaybe??? I mean, reactive evolution is developing specific biological changes to adapt to the environment one is in, including specific combat environment. Maybe Hit's falls under it?

 

[Antvasima]

Nah. Cell has reactive evolution, as the more you damage him, the stronger he grows after he regenerates. I am not certain that Hit has been proven to have a similar ability. He simply improves his skills very quickly,

 

[RadicalMrR]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=33853

Hit approaches Goku and the two bump fists, then fly to opposite sides of the arena. As they prepare to recommence fighting, Hit shows off another new pose, which Beerus notes he must have invented to match his improved strength (similar to what he did last episode).

So he does definitly get stronger the more powerful his oppenent is

aswell as constanly improving his techniques to counter what ever his oppenents do (Like staking time stops so that Goku would be trapped even after he found a loophole in the original time stop)

 

[Antvasima]

It is still not quite reactive evolution to simply improve in skill extremely quickly. Reactive evolution is to automatically grow more powerful from hostile environments, or the more damage you are subjected to.

 

[RadicalMrR]

It is still not quite reactive evolution to simply improve in skill extremely quickly. Reactive evolution is to automatically grow more powerful from hostile environments, or the more damage you are subjected to.

Isn't that what happened to Hit after Goku blitzed him with that barrage of punches?

The part I highlighted was from episode 40 after Goku beat up Hit.If Hit did not improve his Dura,AP,AA and speed there was no way he would be able to hurt or even touch Goku with the Kaio ken.

I don't know it just seems a better version of what Cell does

 

[Antvasima]

Maybe. Maybe not. But since nothing was explicitly spelled out, it might also just have been poor storytelling logic. I prefer to not include it unless we know for certain.

 

[Inertio]

Wouldn't "reactive evolution" be a more biological response to stresses in the environment? Like Doomsday, Cell, and Saiyans(Zenkai) in general if they have near death experiences. I don't think Hit's ability to adapt and learn quickly in a fight would be considered adaptive evolution, that would just make him an incredibly sharp fighter. I could be wrong though.

 

[Antvasima]

@Inertio I agree. It does not seem to be quite the same thing.

 

[Yamatohime]

Reactive evolution is automatic or directed response of organism to serious hazards via rebuidling (or modifying) its own body structure gaining new powers, skills and defenses. And very fast.

 

[Aimenaltair]

Not really, hit adapted to goku's strength by reaching new hights of power after the latter got nearly beaten by Goku and hit doesn't need to regenerate/heal to adapt to a stronger opponent, he just needs to exchange/tank few hits to grow past that power gap.

 

[Yamatohime]

Not really, hit adapted to goku's strength by reaching new hights of power after the latter got nearly beaten by Goku and hit doesn't need to regenerate/heal to adapt to a stronger opponent, he just needs to exchange/tank few hits to grow past that power gap.

Isn't it just simple skill improvement?

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Reactive evolution is more like how FSN Berserker can't be killed by the same move twice (he has a stockpile of 'lives' to make this a useful ability) or maybe like that one guy in yuyu hakusho who eats a pill after taking damage to have his body reconfigured and become immune to the type of damage he just took.

The type of strength and skill growth your're talking about is like when a pokemon levels up and gets more stats, but adaptive evolution would be like a pokemon who'se ability was that if you used a move on it the pokemon would become a type that was resistant ot immune to that move.

 

[Aimenaltair]

Isn't it just simple skill improvement?

No Hit was matching goku in strength and tanked a kaio ken ssjb kamehameha when punches from base ssjb goku hurt him before he powered up and he also matched his speed, hit is really op, again people who don't go for the kill from the start. He also can improve his skills to be much more efficient again the opponent.

 

[Yamatohime]

Vajra is probalby the most easiest example of Reactive Evolution. You killed them a lot. Their Queen get enough info about factors. Next time their armor, shields and weapons will be adapted to you arsenal as whole.

 

[Aimenaltair]

Vajra is probalby the most easiest example of Reactive Evolution. You killed them a lot. Their Queen get enough info about factors. Next time their armor, shields and weapons will be adapted to you arsenal as whole.

I know it's not Reactive Evo Hit doesn't need to be killed or damaged to adapt to an opponent who's stronger/faster/more durable than him all he need is tank/exchange hits with him.

 

[Yamatohime]

No Hit was matching goku in strength and tanked a kaio ken ssjb kamehameha when punches from base ssjb goku hurt him before he powered up and he also matched his speed, hit is really op, again people who don't go for the kill from the start. He also can improve his skills to be much more efficient again the opponent.

No difference to skill improvement via experience though...

 

[Aimenaltair]

No difference to skill improvement via experience though...

Yeah and power improvement too.

 

[Antvasima]

I still maintain that this seems too uncertain to list as an ability. It might be best if I close this thread.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I would have agreed with you if Hit had not shown this 2 times.

but if you feel it should be closed then you should close it but I would have liked more admin to have given input to get a feel for what they thought.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe "Possibly limited reactive evolution" might be acceptable, but again, it still does not sit right with me.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

There's an ability in the Worm verse called 'escalation' where the longer and more difficult a fight is, the stronger, faster, more durable, etc. the person with the ability gets.

Hit's talent for mid combat leveling up seems closer to this than 'I got hit by a fire attack, now I've mutated to be resistant to fire attacks'.

 

[Antvasima]

I would prefer more staff input though, but this isn't a very important topic, so I am reluctant to highlight it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will temporarily highlight the topic, so it can be done with.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Thank you Ant

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. But it technically isn't important enough to highlight. It is just that it will likely never be finished othervise.

 

[Master_Xar]

Hit's ability was in a weird context, in a biological sense it might be the case since he vastly improved both his power and time stop ability, his stances were more for countering Goku's fighting style

 

[Aldrecht]

I would wager that ,other than the slightly increased time stop skill, hit truly didnt improve at all during the fight. I say this for a few simple reasons.

1. Goku, from the beginning of the fight, had to adapt to hits skills and the oddities of the fight. We arent calling this reactive evolution because thats simply goku getting used to figthing an opponent who can stop time. I view this as more of boxing match situation. The fighters had to feel each other out to get the best strategy.

2. Hit isnt used to people reacting to him. Proven by the shock on his face as goku blocks and punches him and further backed up by the fact that hit is an assassin. Assassins dont fight face to face normally. This makes hit have to go through the process of feeling out his new opponent. The switching up of stances and fighting style are simply hit trying a new strategy against an opponent he's never fought before because its obvious the same old fighting style wont work.

3.This sets the bar pretty low for reactive evolution. Hit has used his time stop ability frequently. I dont see a 5% increase in capability as an evolutionary step. I see it as hit pushing the limit of it and somewhat succeeding vis a vis and .1 second increase. Otherwise incremental increases in skill through use and pushing the limits of that skill would make the entire verse have reactionary evolution.

 

[Koopi]

I would wager that ,other than the slightly increased time stop skill, hit truly didnt improve at all during the fight. I say this for a few simple reasons.
1. Goku, from the beginning of the fight, had to adapt to hits skills and the oddities of the fight. We arent calling this reactive evolution because thats simply goku getting used to figthing an opponent who can stop time. I view this as more of boxing match situation. The fighters had to feel each other out to get the best strategy.

2. Hit isnt used to people reacting to him. Proven by the shock on his face as goku blocks and punches him and further backed up by the fact that hit is an assassin. Assassins dont fight face to face normally. This makes hit have to go through the process of feeling out his new opponent. The switching up of stances and fighting style are simply hit trying a new strategy against an opponent he's never fought before because its obvious the same old fighting style wont work.

3.This sets the bar pretty low for reactive evolution. Hit has used his time stop ability frequently. I dont see a 5% increase in capability as an evolutionary step. I see it as hit pushing the limit of it and somewhat succeeding vis a vis and .1 second increase. Otherwise incremental increases in skill through use and pushing the limits of that skill would make the entire verse have reactionary evolution.

Naaaa Hit got faster and stronger in the fight yet admitting himself. Not only that.

He took tramendous damage from SSB Vegata but he was able to tank the same with gokus SSB Kaio Ken x10

Not only that he was able to react faster in situations

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

This doesn't sound any different from any of the other times in the dragon ball series where fighters improved during and after battles.

 

[Aldrecht]

I would wager that ,other than the slightly increased time stop skill, hit truly didnt improve at all during the fight. I say this for a few simple reasons.
1. Goku, from the beginning of the fight, had to adapt to hits skills and the oddities of the fight. We arent calling this reactive evolution because thats simply goku getting used to figthing an opponent who can stop time. I view this as more of boxing match situation. The fighters had to feel each other out to get the best strategy.

2. Hit isnt used to people reacting to him. Proven by the shock on his face as goku blocks and punches him and further backed up by the fact that hit is an assassin. Assassins dont fight face to face normally. This makes hit have to go through the process of feeling out his new opponent. The switching up of stances and fighting style are simply hit trying a new strategy against an opponent he's never fought before because its obvious the same old fighting style wont work.

3.This sets the bar pretty low for reactive evolution. Hit has used his time stop ability frequently. I dont see a 5% increase in capability as an evolutionary step. I see it as hit pushing the limit of it and somewhat succeeding vis a vis and .1 second increase. Otherwise incremental increases in skill through use and pushing the limits of that skill would make the entire verse have reactionary evolution.

Naaaa Hit got faster and stronger in the fight yet admitting himself. Not only that.
He took tramendous damage from SSB Vegata but he was able to tank the same with gokus SSB Kaio Ken x10

Not only that he was able to react faster in situations

But thats completely wrong. Before his fight with goku Hit doesnt take a single hit. The only time vegeta manages to touch him offensively is when he grabs hit's wrist. Are we counting that as tremendous damage now? Entire fight hit wrecks. Vegeta does diddly shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJNOYa_6Dz0

Where in that does vegeta actually do anything? Face it. Before his fight with goku we have no indication of hits durability. He doesnt grow stronger. We just dont see his maximum potential until later.

 

[RadicalMrR]

^ what about Beerus himself saying Hit got stronger

 

[Aldrecht]

Hyperbole. Hit gets "stronger" after focusing his ki much the same way goku and vegeta do when they go super saiyan. Do we see them with reactionary evolution? No. Because they can revert to normal form. Evolution doesnt go backwards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-MvzIwPIpQ

120 to 126 shows hit smirking. He knew he already had a trump card in his back pocket. If we counted breaking through to their untapped potential as reactionary evolution then goku would have it for transforming into a super saiyan after frieza kills krillin. I dont think this instance counts as reactive evolution and this thread is coming off as sort of a wank.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Tbh this does kinda feel like its angling for future fight threads where hit is losing so people can claim that he'll get strong enough to win if they drag it out because of 'evolution'.

 

[Aldrecht]

^

 

[RadicalMrR]

^Hit said in episode 39 "I can't get stronger by transforming like you,so I have to keep improving"

And in the post by herms , says "like he did last episode"

Also this "Untapped potential" makes no sense with the context of the fight and was never said or implied by anyone.

Also if Hit had untapped power why would he smirk if it was his trump card, how would he even know he had untapped power and how did he know it would be exacly enough to match 10X Goku.

 

[Aldrecht]

Alright. Let me clarify.

1. Hit saying that he cant transform could be a bluff. He may be telling the truth but this does not mean that he cant tap into his full power. We see no physical change on his part but the same can be said of gohan on namek after guru's namekian space magic.

2. The untapped potential argument that i am making here is from a standpoint of physics. This is energy not put into kinesis yet. It is potential. Untapped does not necessarily mean unknown. Just because i dont overclock my cpu doesnt mean i dont know that i can.

3. He smirks because he has held back this power until it was necessary. He didnt need to know that it would be enough to kill goku to use it because in a fight at this level when you're getting stomped you use it all. He had no idea it would match goku but he knew what he was at wasnt cutting it. Cue reserves. Its like vegeta fighting cabba a few episodes earlier. he didnt need SSB at the time so he didnt use it until he felt like it.

4. Why are we acting as if a boost in power means reactionary evolution? Goku first went SS3 as a reaction to Majin Buu. Is that reactionary evolution? I dont see anyone making that argument because the factors of the situation dont support it. Just like this.

 

[RadicalMrR]

1.The majority if not all of your arguments is based of your subjective intepretiation of a smirk, makes no sense with context of the story and completely ignores everything stated by Beerus,Hit,Goku and Vegeta.

2.Hit was smirking the whole time in the manga and in it was way weaker then Goku and could not beat him by any means so there goes your smirk=trick up sleve argument.

3.It's reactive evolution because Hit can get stronger if his oppoent challenges him and it's not improving from Building to Large Building but Multi Galactic to Universe level within seconds.

4.Here is my best counter argument,do you honestly think the people over ate Toei would make something so convolutedly dumb for a kids show about Aliens fighting each other?

Beerus' statment was not a hyperbole.Why would he complement the man who is fighting for his brother (someone he would never praise ever).What reason would Beerus even have for lying about Hit's power when if anything scream things like "you can take him Goku make much more sense"?Again non of your arguments make sense and you chose to ignore everything to make them.

 

[A_Sword_Dancer]

Why is this one instance of someone potentially making a breakthrough in strength due to the pressure of a tough fight being pointed to as reactive evolution and not any of the other times in any of the series where this happened with other characters - sometimes multiple times?


This isn't the star trek borg becoming immune to a new type of energy attack shortly after being hit with it a few times, this is a dude flexing his muscles harder than before because his previous muscle flexing wasn't powerful enough to win the fight.