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Dragon Ball Anime Revision
- Thread starter ByAsura
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- dragon ball (toei)
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Remove all feats belonging to movies that don't match the timeline of the anime from Goku (Toei)'s profile. Some movies are directly referenced on either the Z anime or GT (Garlic Junior, Cooler), so they can stay, but stuff like Turles' and Slug's movies are out due to how it is impossible to fit them at any point in the series without heavy contradictions.
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What about separating Anime Goku's Profile from Movie Goku, both should have different profiles
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They are not different enough. See our Canon page.
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Why would they greet Piccolo-they were in the middle of a fight for their lives. Trunks wouldn't be in the HTC if what I said about it taking place on Piccolo's first day.
There were relaxing at times, is that okay with you? They don't have to be relaxing 24/7 for the point to still stand.
The HTC (at this point) only allows for 2 total days or else wouldn't be able to escape. Vegeta already went in for one day alongside Trunks to beat Semi-Perfect Cell, and would now only have one more day inside to prepare for Perfect Cell.
What I'm saying here is that something happens to Broly by the end of the film, which we don't know about. Hence why only Paragus ever appears afterward.
I used the quote to show how it's currently being misused, so that even if you want to believe in a frankly, bizarre canon where only Garlic Jr. and Cooler are canon to Toei's anime, it would still connect to the other movies via WoG.
It's pretty apparent they didn't give much of a care about the contradictions while simultaneously pairing them within the same universe. Just look at Wrath of the Dragon (Gave GT Dragon Fist, GT Trunks his sword) or Fusion Reborn (Where GT Vegeta learned Fusion Dance).
There were relaxing at times, is that okay with you? They don't have to be relaxing 24/7 for the point to still stand.
The HTC (at this point) only allows for 2 total days or else wouldn't be able to escape. Vegeta already went in for one day alongside Trunks to beat Semi-Perfect Cell, and would now only have one more day inside to prepare for Perfect Cell.
What I'm saying here is that something happens to Broly by the end of the film, which we don't know about. Hence why only Paragus ever appears afterward.
I used the quote to show how it's currently being misused, so that even if you want to believe in a frankly, bizarre canon where only Garlic Jr. and Cooler are canon to Toei's anime, it would still connect to the other movies via WoG.
It's pretty apparent they didn't give much of a care about the contradictions while simultaneously pairing them within the same universe. Just look at Wrath of the Dragon (Gave GT Dragon Fist, GT Trunks his sword) or Fusion Reborn (Where GT Vegeta learned Fusion Dance).
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Because they were literally there in the anime, I even gave you the clip. Your point about Piccolo being in the Time Chamber and exiting during the story makes absolutely no sense, and it seems like you're just forcing pieces together that very obviously don't fit.
They certainly weren't going to school, is what I'm saying. Gohan waited on Kami's Palace until the Cell Games while Goku searched for Dragon Balls until the end of the Cell Games, and there's no possible gap for in between because Vegeta and Trunks were in the HTC.
Vegeta's whole plan was to surpass Goku out of enormous jealousy and ego. He'd likely be in there for around 2 days (he could have easily spent 47 hours rather than 48), same with Trunks. It also makes far more sense with the timeline presented in the anime.
Bio-Broly just appears in Hell. It's a meaningless point, and doesn't even begin to address the amount of characters who don't appear in GT.
The timeline where all the movies are canon is far more bizarre. For example, Goku and every other Z-Fighter would have waited on Earth before going to Namek or travelled back for a considerable amount of time just so Lord Slug could happen. Fusion Reborn and Bio-Broly are even worse, while the use of Dragon Balls between the films is an issue in and of itself.
Those don't prove anything because they can be explained without the films (though, I'd argue Wrath of the Dragon could be canon, but they seem to portray it as having been an absolutely threat-free situation for 10-years in the end of the anime). Vegeta never says they've fused before, just that he hates fusing after they try to become Gogeta a second time in that arc.
They certainly weren't going to school, is what I'm saying. Gohan waited on Kami's Palace until the Cell Games while Goku searched for Dragon Balls until the end of the Cell Games, and there's no possible gap for in between because Vegeta and Trunks were in the HTC.
Vegeta's whole plan was to surpass Goku out of enormous jealousy and ego. He'd likely be in there for around 2 days (he could have easily spent 47 hours rather than 48), same with Trunks. It also makes far more sense with the timeline presented in the anime.
Bio-Broly just appears in Hell. It's a meaningless point, and doesn't even begin to address the amount of characters who don't appear in GT.
The timeline where all the movies are canon is far more bizarre. For example, Goku and every other Z-Fighter would have waited on Earth before going to Namek or travelled back for a considerable amount of time just so Lord Slug could happen. Fusion Reborn and Bio-Broly are even worse, while the use of Dragon Balls between the films is an issue in and of itself.
Those don't prove anything because they can be explained without the films (though, I'd argue Wrath of the Dragon could be canon, but they seem to portray it as having been an absolutely threat-free situation for 10-years in the end of the anime). Vegeta never says they've fused before, just that he hates fusing after they try to become Gogeta a second time in that arc.
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I think there is a misunderstanding. You claimed Piccolo was in the HTC for two consecutive days, correct? The HTC only has food for one year (one day), so Piccolo had to have gone out before starting the second day. I'm not claiming Piccolo went to New Namek after the second day, which is what your clip shows; but the first day.
Gohan wasn't on Kami's Palace until the Cell Games- I even linked the video that showed Gohan, Goku, and Krillin relaxing.
No, like it's literally impossible to spend more than two days within the HTC back in Z.
Pretty sure the clip just said regular Broly. As far as I'm aware, not absolutely everyone appeared in GT either.
Yeah like I said, pretty blatant contradictions but very clearly shown to share the same universe; whether it be the WoG you guys used or just the several connected appearances.
A threat free 10 years seem to be a bit of an assumption, no? Vegeta knew the dance during the first time, something he learned in Fusion Reborn.
Gohan wasn't on Kami's Palace until the Cell Games- I even linked the video that showed Gohan, Goku, and Krillin relaxing.
No, like it's literally impossible to spend more than two days within the HTC back in Z.
Pretty sure the clip just said regular Broly. As far as I'm aware, not absolutely everyone appeared in GT either.
Yeah like I said, pretty blatant contradictions but very clearly shown to share the same universe; whether it be the WoG you guys used or just the several connected appearances.
A threat free 10 years seem to be a bit of an assumption, no? Vegeta knew the dance during the first time, something he learned in Fusion Reborn.
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The HTC has food (something that Piccolo doesn't even need) for two years if there's one person inside. Two people can survive for one year, which Vegeta, Trunks, Goku and Gohan have directly shown. This is why we don't see Piccolo coming out until he's done training.
That happened before Gohan went to Kami's palace. Gohan was to stay at the Palace after Goku was looking for the Dragon Balls.
Note your word choice: more than two days. If Vegeta spends 2 or slightly less, then he can leave as he pleases, which Trunks explicitly says.
Edit: Is there some two uses per lifetime policy, or something? Because what Piccolo says in the anime is that Vegeta can spend two days in the chamber, and he'll get lost if he spends any more time.
If you're talking about this clip, it means Bio-Broly. It happens right after he dies in the Bio-Broly film.
Toriyama did not explicitly say they all were in one universe, just that he views them as such and considers himself an audience member. It's not proof. Connected appearances that exist in one of the films.
No, it's just heavily implied by all the characters. He had many other opportunities to learn it. Given that Vegeta seems extremely experienced with the move (even commenting on Goku's poses), it's entirely possible that he learned it in the Otherworld.
That happened before Gohan went to Kami's palace. Gohan was to stay at the Palace after Goku was looking for the Dragon Balls.
Note your word choice: more than two days. If Vegeta spends 2 or slightly less, then he can leave as he pleases, which Trunks explicitly says.
Edit: Is there some two uses per lifetime policy, or something? Because what Piccolo says in the anime is that Vegeta can spend two days in the chamber, and he'll get lost if he spends any more time.
If you're talking about this clip, it means Bio-Broly. It happens right after he dies in the Bio-Broly film.
Toriyama did not explicitly say they all were in one universe, just that he views them as such and considers himself an audience member. It's not proof. Connected appearances that exist in one of the films.
No, it's just heavily implied by all the characters. He had many other opportunities to learn it. Given that Vegeta seems extremely experienced with the move (even commenting on Goku's poses), it's entirely possible that he learned it in the Otherworld.
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I don't really care about the outcome of this thread, but I think SD is making some valid points.
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I don't know if that's how the HTC's food works (Also Nameks pretty clearly need food, Kami when he arrived struggled to eat and Piccolo mentioned he'd eat Tien).
I seriously doubt Gohan was on Kami's Palace for 3 days.
That is stretching out what "more than 2 days" means to the absolute extreme.
Yes, only instead of two uses it's two days.
Pretty sure he's talking about regular Broly- especially considering Bio-Broly was portrayed pretty weak- there would be no need for a Pikkon and Goku tag team.
Pretty sure Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans also mentions Broly, which itself set the foundation for the Baby Saga with how the Tuffles were perceived(? To be entirely honest, don't really remember whether the Tuffles were first shown/designed in this or another media)
Vegeta was in Hell when he went to the Otherworld, so that's not really possible. Occam's Razor would suggest he learned it when from Fusion Reborn (Since we see him learn it there) rather than mysteriously learning it in Hell for no reason.
I seriously doubt Gohan was on Kami's Palace for 3 days.
That is stretching out what "more than 2 days" means to the absolute extreme.
Yes, only instead of two uses it's two days.
Pretty sure he's talking about regular Broly- especially considering Bio-Broly was portrayed pretty weak- there would be no need for a Pikkon and Goku tag team.
Pretty sure Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans also mentions Broly, which itself set the foundation for the Baby Saga with how the Tuffles were perceived(? To be entirely honest, don't really remember whether the Tuffles were first shown/designed in this or another media)
Vegeta was in Hell when he went to the Otherworld, so that's not really possible. Occam's Razor would suggest he learned it when from Fusion Reborn (Since we see him learn it there) rather than mysteriously learning it in Hell for no reason.
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Just a heads up, pretty sure most of the "Android saga movies" probably happened during the 10 day gap waiting for the Cell games. And there could be some that happened during the 3 year time gap between Mecha Frieza and arrival of the Androids. It's the Saiyan Saga ones that are difficult to pin point, as well as Buu Saga minus Wrath of the Dragon.
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They were actually shown in filler before the OVA came out, but you're right this is where they are elaborated on.
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I'll probably be busy throughout the day, so I might take most of the day to counter any response.
I don't know if that's how the HTC's food works (Also Nameks pretty clearly need food, Kami when he arrived struggled to eat and Piccolo mentioned he'd eat Tien).
I'll look into that first claim. That's called a threat, and it doesn't mean they need food.
Edit: What he said (after having lost his memory, btw) is that there was hardly anything to eat. This power seems to be a power that appears and disappears in both the manga and anime, but notably Piccolo didn't eat anything on King Kai's planet.
I seriously doubt Gohan was on Kami's Palace for 3 days.
He certainly wasn't there for one, which your Broly movie timeline would suggest. He's also pretty obviously there for at least a while, as Chi Chi took the time to send him homework.
That is stretching out what "more than 2 days" means to the absolute extreme.
Literally Trunks said they could be there for an hour less than two days.
Yes, only instead of two uses it's two days.
I can't find this in the anime. I can only find that 2 days is the time limit for a single user, not that they have that amount of time for their entire life.
Pretty sure he's talking about regular Broly- especially considering Bio-Broly was portrayed pretty weak- there would be no need for a Pikkon and Goku tag team.
It was after Bio-Broly died and in the same film. It's almost 100% referring to him. Broly became enormous at the end of the movie, he was also weaker because his physical form had degraded.
Pretty sure Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans also mentions Broly, which itself set the foundation for the Baby Saga with how the Tuffles were perceived(? To be entirely honest, don't really remember whether the Tuffles were first shown/designed in this or another media)
The Tuffles were shown in the anime originally, including the backstory that they were attacked by the Saiyans (which is where they got a vast majority of the footage of the planet's attack in GT). There is no information that GT utilised from this OVA.
Vegeta was in Hell when he went to the Otherworld, so that's not really possible. Occam's Razor would suggest he learned it when from Fusion Reborn (Since we see him learn it there) rather than mysteriously learning it in Hell for no reason.
Vegeta was resurrected in Buu Saga with everyone on Earth, so it's entirely possible. Occam's Razor doesn't apply when there's evidence that this material is not canon.
I don't know if that's how the HTC's food works (Also Nameks pretty clearly need food, Kami when he arrived struggled to eat and Piccolo mentioned he'd eat Tien).
I'll look into that first claim. That's called a threat, and it doesn't mean they need food.
Edit: What he said (after having lost his memory, btw) is that there was hardly anything to eat. This power seems to be a power that appears and disappears in both the manga and anime, but notably Piccolo didn't eat anything on King Kai's planet.
I seriously doubt Gohan was on Kami's Palace for 3 days.
He certainly wasn't there for one, which your Broly movie timeline would suggest. He's also pretty obviously there for at least a while, as Chi Chi took the time to send him homework.
That is stretching out what "more than 2 days" means to the absolute extreme.
Literally Trunks said they could be there for an hour less than two days.
Yes, only instead of two uses it's two days.
I can't find this in the anime. I can only find that 2 days is the time limit for a single user, not that they have that amount of time for their entire life.
Pretty sure he's talking about regular Broly- especially considering Bio-Broly was portrayed pretty weak- there would be no need for a Pikkon and Goku tag team.
It was after Bio-Broly died and in the same film. It's almost 100% referring to him. Broly became enormous at the end of the movie, he was also weaker because his physical form had degraded.
Pretty sure Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans also mentions Broly, which itself set the foundation for the Baby Saga with how the Tuffles were perceived(? To be entirely honest, don't really remember whether the Tuffles were first shown/designed in this or another media)
The Tuffles were shown in the anime originally, including the backstory that they were attacked by the Saiyans (which is where they got a vast majority of the footage of the planet's attack in GT). There is no information that GT utilised from this OVA.
Vegeta was in Hell when he went to the Otherworld, so that's not really possible. Occam's Razor would suggest he learned it when from Fusion Reborn (Since we see him learn it there) rather than mysteriously learning it in Hell for no reason.
Vegeta was resurrected in Buu Saga with everyone on Earth, so it's entirely possible. Occam's Razor doesn't apply when there's evidence that this material is not canon.
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With the exception of Movie 1, every other movie in the saiyan/frieza saga (Movies 2, 3, and 4) are too heavily contradictory, so they're all probably scraped.
Movies 1, 5, 9, and 13 are movies that I'm pretty sure have little to no contradictions so they're safe.
Now to wait for discussions over Movies 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, and 12.
Movies 1, 5, 9, and 13 are movies that I'm pretty sure have little to no contradictions so they're safe.
Now to wait for discussions over Movies 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, and 12.
Nullflowerblush
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Movie 6 makes no sense. Dende is the Guardian of Earth in the movie, which doesn't align with the fact that Goku and Vegeta are First Grade Super Saiyans when Goku would have been a Full Power Super Saiyan, and the two of them are relatively equal despite Goku logically being the stronger one after training in the Room of Spirit and Time, Gohan is still in his pre-RoSaT appearance and isn't a Super Saiyan at all, and Future Trunks is nowhere to be seen, even though he would have been on New Namek alongside Vegeta after having trained with him in the RoSaT.
Movie 7 is explicitly stated to take place in a parallel world by the Daizenshuu (see OP).
Movie 10 is eh. It seemingly takes place after the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, with Videl knowing how to fly and Goten knowing who Goku is. The problem with that is, unless Babidi just didn't invade the Tenkaichi Budokai, they wouldn't have the room to go out to some far-off village and fight with Broly, since after Babidi's invasion was non-stop action and training. It can't be after Majin Buu's appearance, because Gohan would have been transported to the Sacred World of the Kai and would have been there while the movie's events played out, and it can't both be before Buu's appearance and after the tournament, because too much stuff occurs between those two events, so Movie 10 can't happen within the TV anime's continuity.
I've seen never Movie 11, but the Daizenshuu makes note of its contradictory timeline of events, which suffers the same issues as Movie 10, and states it to be a movie-only event.
As SD pointed out, Vegeta learned the Fusion Dance in Movie 12 and used it again in GT. Goku also makes reference to Movie 12 in GT, commenting and laughing on the fact that Vegeta was the one to propose Fusion, a stark contrast to his straight-up refusal in Movie 12 initially. But.
Movie 7 is explicitly stated to take place in a parallel world by the Daizenshuu (see OP).
Movie 10 is eh. It seemingly takes place after the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, with Videl knowing how to fly and Goten knowing who Goku is. The problem with that is, unless Babidi just didn't invade the Tenkaichi Budokai, they wouldn't have the room to go out to some far-off village and fight with Broly, since after Babidi's invasion was non-stop action and training. It can't be after Majin Buu's appearance, because Gohan would have been transported to the Sacred World of the Kai and would have been there while the movie's events played out, and it can't both be before Buu's appearance and after the tournament, because too much stuff occurs between those two events, so Movie 10 can't happen within the TV anime's continuity.
I've seen never Movie 11, but the Daizenshuu makes note of its contradictory timeline of events, which suffers the same issues as Movie 10, and states it to be a movie-only event.
As SD pointed out, Vegeta learned the Fusion Dance in Movie 12 and used it again in GT. Goku also makes reference to Movie 12 in GT, commenting and laughing on the fact that Vegeta was the one to propose Fusion, a stark contrast to his straight-up refusal in Movie 12 initially. But.
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Goku only really says "I'll never ask again" after they (fruitlessly) attempt fusion for a second time, which doesn't really mean that he's asked before, just that he won't do it after this instance. I feel everyone is forgetting this, but Goku's surprise at Vegeta proposing fusion could actually be a reference to Vegito, as well. He was far too proud and relented at the very last moment.
Thank you for the Daizenshuu scans, by the way.
I think we already discussed Cooler's Revenge a bit. What's weird is that this movie was made on the 7th of March, 1992, yet Dende is the Earth's Guardian (it happens on the 29th of September in the manga). Goku's clothing and Vegeta's Super Saiyan form, in addition to the latter's lack of Heart Virus, also place it in Cell Games gap. This isn't a contradiction, quite the opposite, but strange. As Nullflower pointed out, it's most likely an alternate timeline.
There's another contradiction with Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon I finally managed to piece together. In the anime (I don't remember if this actually occurs within the manga), Shenron is summoned by Bulma to resurrect the people Vegeta killed, but Goku cleverly decides to not use any more wishes, saving them 4 months. By this point, Shenron could perform three wishes, but resurrecting a group of people counted as 2 in and of itself, meaning they only had one wish (or at least one for that year, as they waited 6 months to actually summon the Dragon again). Goku uses this final wish to erase everyone's memories of Buu. In Fusion Reborn (which takes place in the Buu Saga) and Wrath of the Dragon (the same year as the Buu Saga), they summon Shenron (though he isn't used in Fusion Reborn, but he actually offers 3 wishes) despite the fact that the Dragon Balls should have been inert in both instances.
Rather than having a "canon if it's not contradictory" policy on the films, I think it should be "non-canon until it's confirmed".
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I'm pretty busy too, so I might not be able to respond for a while. Though I need to ask: the scans are from the Daizenchuu? If they are, then shouldn't we take it saying: "This takes place during x time" as legitimately putting it in the anime timeline rather than an alternative timeline or am I missing something?
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They're from Daizenshuu 6, which covers movies and specials. How does that last part relate to it being Daizenshuu, which covered all aspects of Dragon Ball/Z in the 80s and 90s? These quotes also say that many of the films do take place in a parallel universe.
Even if they are somehow canon, the anime itself barely regards the films (excluding Garlick Jr.) as actually existing. They very well should be separate, regardless.
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So does somebody have a good solution regarding how we can properly scale the movie characters if they are not a part of regular continuity? Also, are any of the regular characters currently scaled from them?
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I think we would just scale the non canon movie characters to the canon anime characters, but not vice versa. As an example, Turles would scale to Post Saiyan saga Goku, but Goku wouldn't scale to Turles.
And I might be wrong, but the only thing that might be threatened if some movies are considered non-canon would be the 3-C calc if fusion reborn is considered non-canon/too contradictory. Most of the feats come from the anime, so it's not too bad iirc.
And I might be wrong, but the only thing that might be threatened if some movies are considered non-canon would be the 3-C calc if fusion reborn is considered non-canon/too contradictory. Most of the feats come from the anime, so it's not too bad iirc.
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Some hax would probably be lost as well.
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Some of them have feats, like Broly. Janemba and Hirudegarn (I found a quote where it says Movie 12 Goku = Movie 13 Goku), on the other hand, would scale from Goku shaking the afterlife. Characters like Turles and Dr. Wheelo would probably scaled to anime levels. Goku's the only one, and I'm planning to change it.
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Yeah, a parallel universe. Seems a bit weird to ignore that it tells us when it fits in the timeline (which could easily just means Toriyama sees the anime as another universe, like how we do) while we assume it takes place under completely different circumstances.
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Daizenshuu never said the same parallel universe per each film. It never calls the movies canon, it just gives them equivalent placements. Toriyama A) worked extensively on the anime, and B) never describes them as such.
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Maybe its the translations, but A) Toriyama says they take place in a separate dimension, not separate dimensions or separate dimension per film (Not to mention, Fusion Reborn shows this not to be the case); well the scan brought up earlier isn't giving them equivalent placements, it outright states that it takes place "during the middle of the battle with Majin Buu" and cites what is currently occurring with the anime to prove it.
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He also says he's an audience member with no say.
That's the timeline placement that it gives for every film. Also, the movie itself can't possibly take place during the battle with Majin Buu since both Goku and Vegeta are dead, while Gohan is on Earth. Gotenks also appears, which is hugely contradictory.
The anime hardly recognises the existence of the movies, outside of a few characters.
That's the timeline placement that it gives for every film. Also, the movie itself can't possibly take place during the battle with Majin Buu since both Goku and Vegeta are dead, while Gohan is on Earth. Gotenks also appears, which is hugely contradictory.
The anime hardly recognises the existence of the movies, outside of a few characters.
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Yeah, separate dimension simply means it's separate from the original Manga; it's not really a statement for or against them being canon to each other.
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I think it would matter considering, as you pointed out, he worked extensively on the anime.
Pretty sure at one point in the Buu Saga that was possible.
Which ties them back to the movies, with those few characters appearing frequently.
From our previous convo (If you want to continue it)
Pretty sure at one point in the Buu Saga that was possible.
Which ties them back to the movies, with those few characters appearing frequently.
From our previous convo (If you want to continue it)
- Not sure if Piccolo being dead (Or anyone there) actually need to eat as much as they enjoy it.
- I mean, spending one day on Kami's and one-day off-world then returning back to Kami's would still fit with everything you said. (Broly movie is at most, maybe a day and a half?)
- Trunks really isn't a reliable source for the HTC- he didn't even know it existed until a few days ago.
- I would assume HTC's rules are same as the manga since the anime mostly added instead of subtracting content.
- No matter how you slice it, Bio-Broly wouldn't necessitate the use of both Goku and Pikkon to calm down.
- I don't think the anime introduced the blue-mechanical form of truffles that Dr.Lynchee, Dr.Myuu, and Baby all use.
- That's true, but vice-versa is too. But given how consistent the movies' content are used (Dragon Fist, Fusion Dance knowledge for Vegeta, GT Trunk's sword) and how they often correlate (Would correlate a lot more too if we used content from outside the movies, like Turles being referenced in a movie book for Broly)
- Also, Cooler's movie & the anime having Icarus proves Tree of Might and Lord Slug too, no?
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But not the films.
It wasn't. Vegeta died, Gohan was teleported to the Kai Realm, Goten and Trunks train, Goku is sent back to the afterlife and then the Kai Realm with Gohan so he can train/have his potential unlocked, Trunks and Gohan go into the Time Chamber and fight Buu, and then Gohan shows up on Earth.
Only Icarus and Garlick Jr. appear. Cooler does too, in GT, along with the Black Water Mist.
Sure.
It wasn't. Vegeta died, Gohan was teleported to the Kai Realm, Goten and Trunks train, Goku is sent back to the afterlife and then the Kai Realm with Gohan so he can train/have his potential unlocked, Trunks and Gohan go into the Time Chamber and fight Buu, and then Gohan shows up on Earth.
Only Icarus and Garlick Jr. appear. Cooler does too, in GT, along with the Black Water Mist.
Sure.
- The other characters and Goku needed to eat, and Piccolo was still drinking water. This is probably because they actually have physical bodies.
- Ok, but that still didn't happen because the other characters didn't return to Earth and the Broly movie takes place over multiple days without interruption, as did the Cell Saga. They were explicitly waiting 24-hours for Piccolo, as well.
- Trunks' claims are supported by Piccolo.
- They don't establish the same rules. The weird time scale of the anime also makes these rules consistent.
- Bio-Broly died and then appeared in Hell. No matter how you slice it, assuming it's the actual Broly is unsupported head canon.
- Myuu is a machine mutant that found Baby, he's not a Tuffle. Ghost Lychee himself also looks nothing like Baby (a tuffle-parasite hybrid) or a typical Tuffle, who are shown to be virtually identical to humans in GT and the OG anime. He did look like a typical Tuffle before his death, however. Any similarities (of which there are few, at best) are 100% coincidental.
- 1. Firstly, GT Trunks only has the sword in the anime opening, and it's very different in appearance to the Brave Sword from Tapion. Second, both the Dragon Fist and Fusion aren't necessarily from those films. By that logic, GT Gogeta is canon.
2. Icarus is probably just an easter egg and only really appears as a background character. Joint characters between canon is not proof, otherwise you could consider Xenoverse and the OG manga to be in the same canon
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I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion. Alternately, a staff member can use the @Username notification system.
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I mean, if he considered the timeline placement of the films for the anime, I could probably make the argument that at the very least the films are canon to the anime but not vice versa.
You're right, Gohan being in the Kai realm is contradictory.
Icarus who debuted in Lord Slug & Tree of Might, yeah.
You're right, Gohan being in the Kai realm is contradictory.
Icarus who debuted in Lord Slug & Tree of Might, yeah.
- So Piccolo was consuming?
- I only remember the movie lasting a bit over a day conservatively, maybe 36 hours if we're being generous considering they only slept there for one night.
- Vegeta spending 2 days and 23 hours to avoid the HTC's rules still seems suspect, but all it does it is slightly make the timeline tighter (Not to mention, it'd only make it so you can account for 6 of the days).
- I'll have to check on my own time later but for now I'll accept that.
- Like I said, it's absurd to assume that Bio-Broly would require the combined strength of Goku and Pikkon to put down. Even the wiki assumes Bio-Broly to be significantly weaker than regular Broly.
- Machine Mutants are Tuffles after extensive modification (Turning their skin blue and connecting them with technology as Myuu and Lynchee were) or a separate species created by the Tuffles (They're used interchangeably, although they still rely on Tuffle DNA such as Rildo which looks more like the formers). Baby isn't a parasite / Tuffle hybrid, he's a Neo Machine Mutant hence he has a different appearance but still blue skin.
- Pretty sure he used it at times within GT, I wasn't aware of a different appearance though.
That's a false analogy: Gogeta is the result of a technique that exists in all canons; Dragon Fist and Vegeta knowing the Fusion Dance come from the films.
Also a false analogy, especially considering Icarus appears in the anime too several times. Now if the OG manga suddenly had Mira after Xenoverse 2 then you could make that argument.
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In Dragon Ball Super, Vegeta literally didn't even know how to use Fusion Dance; that was a big plot point of the canon movie. Where as in GT, Vegeta was the one who suggested it and also did it exactly right like Goku. And it also surprised Goku because Goku remembered Vegeta claiming he didn't want to fuse with him ever again; which was a quote in Fusion Reborn. One could argue he was referring to Vegito against Super Buu, but that doesn't debunk Vegeta knowing how to use Fusion Dance without "Bending one lousy finger".
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It's possible, just pretty OOC for Vegeta to ask Trunks for Fusion of all techniques. Vegeta was dead so he couldn't have watched Gotenks.
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