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He never does that again, afterward, kaioken Is automatically x2
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Dragon Ball AP, sad downgrade (Raditz/Saiyan/Namek Saga Tiers only)
- Thread starter Ednaxel2
- Start date
- Status
He never does that again, afterward, kaioken Is automatically x2
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It's evidently a one-off thing, base Kaioken is just treated as Kaioken x2 after that
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image doesn't work
also what stops normal Kaioken to not multiply by 2 times? all that Goku says in the scan you posted earlier is that he can boost himself by 2 times with kaioken......what is the proof he wasn't talking about 2x Kaioken already?
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Because Goku didn't use 2x Kaioken before that, if the imgur link worked you'd see that
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@omegabronic Maybe go to imgur and type "/a/ScH4Zlg" at the end if that helps
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That's not how it works anymore. So no, Kaioken x2 is not a 4x amp (chat, is Kaioken x20 a 40x amp actually?)
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There is no difference between Kaioken x2 and Kaioken. The base Kaioken multiplies your strength by 2, them x3 multiplies it by 3
DivineAura44
He/Him- 5,403
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The confusion is reasonable though, because KK and x2 seem to be different forms yet KK already doubles power.
The reason behind this is just that the writers didn't put much thought into it (something I suspect happens a lot more which cause us to take this to face value which were likely mistakes, but I digress.)
I think we needn't stretch this thread longer.
The reason behind this is just that the writers didn't put much thought into it (something I suspect happens a lot more which cause us to take this to face value which were likely mistakes, but I digress.)
I think we needn't stretch this thread longer.
ProudLearner
She/Her- 1,232
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Hypothetically speaking, what stops Raditz from transforming into an Oozaru with a PL of 15,000? We can go all day with what if's?
You cannot used a what if or hypothetical scenario to downgrade.
No, it does not. It is consistent. You cannot use hypothetical scaling to downgrade something that currently works great.
At this point, there should be a Discussion Rule about Multipliers. We get a multiplier, AP Upgrade, or Downgrade thread every couple of months.
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- Thread starter
- #211
Ok but this thread aims at removing hypotheticals from the scaling entirely with the examples used, if hypothetical multipliers break the scaling then they shouldn't be used
Every AP thread has something new to offer with multipliers, whether it be re-justifying old ones, bringing in new ones, or removing past ones, it's not just one multiplier discussed throughout all of these threads
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This thread already passed, you can apply it already
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- Thread starter
- #213
Well we have 3 mods that agree with the downgrading (Damage, DDM and Maverick Zero), and 3 mods for the average planet level calc (KingTemp, DDM and Maverick Zero) so yeah I guess we can apply it.
Someone else will have to update the profiles though since I'm busy for today and tomorrow, unless you guys are fine with me applying it much later. I can change the blog rn tho
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Change the blog, we can work from there
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- Thread starter
- #215
I already did. I'll add an average planet calc to the verse page, should it just be called "Average Planet GBE"?
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At least it's good that we're not relying on a flimsy justification now for Goku's AP
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I decided to calculate Planet Vegeta's destruction, adjusting for the size of the planet, and I got 1.5485826595748609124548878250904797988715e+40 J (High 5-A+), this is over 18 times the current amount we go by
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- Thread starter
- #219
We already got a recalc for it in a previous thread
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I got Goku's page open
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- Thread starter
- #221
I guess I can edit all the pages now
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Just make sure to tell @GarrixianXD when you're done
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Just to ask though, what do you think of these keys?
Key: Beginning of Saiyan Arc | Post-North Kai training | Ginyu Fight | Frieza Fight | Beginning of Cell Arc | Post-Room of Spirit and Time Training | Buu Arc
Key: Beginning of Saiyan Arc | Post-North Kai training | Ginyu Fight | Frieza Fight | Beginning of Cell Arc | Post-Room of Spirit and Time Training | Buu Arc
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- Thread starter
- #224
Oh I was done a while ago, Goku's profile can be locked now, Piccolo already got his locked
The current keys we have and these ones both work, can't decide which is better sorry
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,290
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It's not hypothetical though, there's enough evidence of this in the manga. It also doesn't contradict anything, this specific downscaling only affects Namek Goku who was far stronger than everyone else on Planet Namek at the time (excluding Ginyu and Frieza). I don't see the problem with that.
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I mean, if you apply that logic that "multipliers = pl multipliers = we can scale with that" then.......why not use a hypothetical KKx1334 and downscale Goku from final form freeza? Technically speaking, if the logic is "Multipliers are valid for power level downscalling" then why limit to namek even? Why not use the multipliers for the other arcs? Like downscalling King Piccolo arc Goku to Raditz since a hypotetical Oozaru would make him have a PL superior to Raditz?
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,516
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The key word there being "hypothetical." We know the Ginyu Fight Goku has access to Kaioken x10.
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,290
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Hypothetical, that's the key word here. You can't just assume a power relation between two characters when it's never been mentioned in the original manga.
Goku downscaling from Frieza is diferent, there's an explicit mention of a power relation between the two.
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