Big Monkey Get Big Speed

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Basically what I'm saying is 5x speed scaling would be guaranteed, but not 10x speed scaling.

It's not a 5x increase btw.
Vegeta is faster than Kaioken x2
Oozaru Vegeta is faster than Kaioken x5

That's a 2.5x increase.

 

[Livinmeme]

Given that Goku heavilly implies that Bejita got faster after he went monkey, along with the fact that slumbering can also meant this

to walk in a way that is not controlled or even

Not to mention that in Dragon ball Super manga; Kefla loses after she becomes SSJL because her rage impeded precise movement, so we already have SOME kind of correlation between anger and the lose of precision

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Given that Goku heavilly implies that Bejita got faster after he went monkey, along with the fact that slumbering can also meant this

Not to mention that in Dragon ball Super manga; Kefla loses after she becomes SSJL because her rage impeded precise movement, so we already have SOME kind of correlation between anger and the lose of precision

Oozaru Vegeta isn't angry.
Japanese Dialogue says sluggish

 

[CloverDragon03]

Prove it.
Someone could've added this to the speed section by mistake, and it went unnoticed for years.
Proof of this is that no accepted scaling chain has Oozaru as a speed multiplier.
You need to give me the exact thread where this was accepted, because if it is a mistake, it's not accepted

Wouldn't you need to be the one proving it's a mistake? You're just kind of asserting that it is. And if mistakes are made regarding a verse's statistics, you make a thread to deal with them. You don't take an existing thread and haphazardly change its course like this

Also even personally speaking, changing a thread's course midway through is one of my biggest pet peeves

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Prove it.
Someone could've added this to the speed section by mistake, and it went unnoticed for years.
Proof of this is that no accepted scaling chain has Oozaru as a speed multiplier.
You need to give me the exact thread where this was accepted, because if it is a mistake, it's not accepted

Wouldn't you need to be the one proving it's a mistake? You're just kind of asserting that it is. And if mistakes are made regarding a verse's statistics, you make a thread to deal with them. You don't take an existing thread and haphazardly change its course like this

Also even personally speaking, changing a thread's course midway through is one of my biggest pet peeves

?

Dragon Ball

For detailed information about this series from the Dragon Ball Wiki, you can click here. A kid named Son Goku grows up, trains to be a strong fighter, and eventually becomes the protector of the Earth along with his descendants: Gohan and Goten. Along the way, he makes powerful allies and even...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Wouldn't you need to be the one proving it's a mistake? You're just kind of asserting that it is. And if mistakes are made regarding a verse's statistics, you make a thread to deal with them. You don't take an existing thread and haphazardly change its course like this

Also even personally speaking, changing a thread's course midway through is one of my biggest pet peeves

Okay

• There is no thread where Oozaru form is even cited as a speed multiplier (from the accepted ones in the Verse Page)
• No accepted scaling chain has Oozaru as a speed multiplier.
• No supporter, staff, or anyone was aware of this, which wouldn't be the case if it was accepted by staff in a thread.
• This was never a point of debate in any speed scaling threads I've been a part of.

Would that suffice my burden of proof and allow me to ask you to provide evidence that this was accepted?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Okay

• There is no thread where Oozaru form is even cited as a speed multiplier (from the accepted ones in the Verse Page)
• No accepted scaling chain has Oozaru as a speed multiplier.
• No supporter, staff, or anyone was aware of this, which wouldn't be the case if it was accepted by staff in a thread.
• This was never a point of debate in any speed scaling threads I've been a part of.

Would that suffice my burden of proof and allow me to ask you to provide evidence that this was accepted?

I think Phsccarvalho beat me to the punch as far as a thread goes...

 

[Livinmeme]

Oozaru Vegeta isn't angry.
Japanese Dialogue says sluggish

Bejita trows a kid tantrum, before trying to destroy a planet, which HE IS IN
not angry, btw

 

[Livinmeme]

Oozaru Vegeta isn't angry.
Japanese Dialogue says sluggish

I..What? I already responded that sluggish doesn't mean neccesarilly slow

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I..What? I already responded that sluggish doesn't mean neccesarilly slow

It literally does.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I..What? I already responded that sluggish doesn't mean neccesarilly slow

As an Oozaru, Vegeta was TOYING with Goku. He was not angry, citing instances where he was angry during the fight is not evidence bro was just livid 24/7

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

?

Dragon Ball

For detailed information about this series from the Dragon Ball Wiki, you can click here. A kid named Son Goku grows up, trains to be a strong fighter, and eventually becomes the protector of the Earth along with his descendants: Gohan and Goten. Along the way, he makes powerful allies and even...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think Phsccarvalho beat me to the punch as far as a thread goes...

Did you read the thread?
https://vsbattles.com/threads/oozaru-bojack.150619/
The multiplier proposed was for power
Yet bro added explanations for speed.

 

[Padaruyos]

The speed increase should be 2.5x at least since Goku thinks KKx5 isn't enough. But there is an asterisk here, both Vegeta and Goku are nerfed significantly (Goku heavily damaged himself due to Kkx4 and Vegeta nerfed himself with the power ball.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I dunno what else to say, honestly. I'm not a fan of shifting course from the thread's initial purpose to something different - like here, shifting it from "let's apply this already noted explanation to someone's scaling" to "let's just remove the explanation." If you wanna remove the explanation, make a thread. I'd be fine with that

 

[Padaruyos]

Tbh do we ever accept x10 Oozaru speed multiplier in the past?

The whole problem with Grade 3 is that it increases your mass so much the form actually makes you slower than standard Super Saiyan despite its near 2x power boost. Here we have a form that dwarves SS 3G several times over.

But assuming Oozaru is a more biological transformation rather than just inflating yourself with Ki like a balloon like SS 3G, it can make sense for Oozaru to be a 2.5x or even a 10x speed boost.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I dunno what else to say, honestly. I'm not a fan of shifting course from the thread's initial purpose to something different - like here, shifting it from "let's apply this already noted explanation to someone's scaling" to "let's just remove the explanation." If you wanna remove the explanation, make a thread. I'd be fine with that

The thread getting rejected would make the explanation also be rejected, it's the consequence of the thread's purpose, nor a change in what we're trying to achieve here. I'm trying to get the thread rejected, which also entails in removing the explanation. It's one thing.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Tbh do we ever accept x10 Oozaru speed multiplier in the past?

The whole problem with Grade 3 is that it increases your mass so much the form actually makes you slower than standard Super Saiyan despite its near 2x power boost. Here we have a form that dwarves SS 3G several times over.

But assuming Oozaru is a more biological transformation rather than just inflating yourself with Ki like a balloon like SS 3G, it can make sense for Oozaru to be a 2.5x or even a 10x speed boost.

Again, physics do be physics. Oozaru is, let's say ten times taller than Vegeta, but that would make him a thousand times heavier. Getting a mere 10x power boost would not compensate for speed imo

 

[CloverDragon03]

The thread getting rejected would make the explanation also be rejected, it's the consequence of the thread's purpose, nor a change in what we're trying to achieve here. I'm trying to get the thread rejected, which also entails in removing the explanation. It's one thing.

Doesn't matter to me too much either way, I suppose. I guess otherwise this would be a game of Catch 22 where it's as if the only actual option is "shut up and accept the thread" or something idk

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Not to mention that in Dragon ball Super manga; [Kale] loses after she becomes SSJL because her rage impeded precise movement, so we already have SOME kind of correlation between anger and the lose of precision

Kale loses because her energy began growing continuously, driving her towards self-destruction.
Legendary Super Saiyan emphasizes "pure power"—like Goku's Super Saiyan Blue Kaio-ken, which Jiren described as "destroying your body"; and, in the original series, Super Saiyan Third Grade and Cell's Powerhouse—and, after her power reaches its limits, her body begins rapidly exhausting said power and her physical strength.

Anger can hinder one's concentration,—which is crucial for Ki Control,—yes, but,

• Paragus explicitly described Great Apes as "動きの鈍い大" or "large and moving sluggishly".
• Furthermore, Paragus explicitly asserted that Broly only retained speed because he was in humanoid form, rather than Great Ape form. Anger was a non-factor.

 

[Damage3245]

We don't need to make a whole new thread to remove the explanation; we can handle that here.

 

[RedReaper616]

So for now, the changes shall be:

• Application of speed increase, but as simply “faster.”
• Removal of the Oozaru Speed mention on the Verse Page

Waiting on:

Opinion for Toei Saiyans (whose Oozaru forms lean into the original interpretation of Oozaru increasing speed to a much higher degree.)

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Agree with removing the Oozaru speed mention from the verse page.

 

[Padaruyos]

Oozaru users should get a "higher" or "far higher" with Great Ape.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I'll point out again that it was added without any approval. Either way, since this is done, I'll wish you all a good day.

 

[RedReaper616]

‘Ello?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

‘Ello?

Have we reached grace yet?

 

[RedReaper616]

I don’t believe so, but even if we did for the Canon Oozaru, we still need to handle Toei Oozaru.

 

[RedReaper616]

Agree with removing the Oozaru speed mention from the verse page.

What’s your stance on the Toei Oozaru multiplier?

 

[RedReaper616]

BUMP.

 

[RedReaper616]

We don't need to make a whole new thread to remove the explanation; we can handle that here.

Yo, are you willing to help me complete the thread for the Toei side, or…?

 

[RedReaper616]

Currently applying the Canon Changes. I’ll do Toei as a separate thread.

 

[RedReaper616]

So, OGDB Manga Goku actually has the Oozaru 10x multiplier on his speed for his first key. Since we’re removing that, how does that alter his scaling chains?

 

[Damage3245]

So, OGDB Manga Goku actually has the Oozaru 10x multiplier on his speed for his first key. Since we’re removing that, how does that alter his scaling chains?

I don't think anyone scales to Oozaru Goku's speed?

 

[CloverDragon03]

No one does, yeah. All the Hypersonic+ characters get their scaling from Tao Pai Pai's feat

Edit: Actually, OG DB Manga Goku doesn't have this multiplier at all. He gets Hypersonic+ speed via scaling to Grandpa Gohan

 

[RedReaper616]

No one does, yeah. All the Hypersonic+ characters get their scaling from Tao Pai Pai's feat

Edit: Actually, OG DB Manga Goku doesn't have this multiplier at all. He gets Hypersonic+ speed via scaling to Grandpa Gohan

Ahhhh. Makes sense.

 

[RedReaper616]

Done. You can close this thread.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay. Closing.