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Dragon Ball Anime Revision

ByAsura

ByAsura

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VS Battles
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Separating Films​

The films and anime, while connected, certainly don't fit into the same cohesive timeline. Even the original films, such as Curse of the Blood Rubies, were intended to be retconned forms of Dragon Ball Canon. To prove that the films (with the exception of Father of Goku and possibly History of Trunks) are non-canon, I will provide a list of vast contradictions.
  • Although Garlick Jr. does appear in the anime, Gohan meets Krillin. The two were first introduced in DBZ and Goku isn't dead. However, this is a very minor contradiction that seems fine considering how little the creators of the anime seemed to regard continuity.
  • In World's Strongest, Goku is perfectly well. In the anime, he was still in hospital from fighting Vegeta, Piccolo was dead, and Gohan was on Namek with Bulma and Krillin. Tree of Might faces the exact same problem, except amplified due to the presence of Yamcha and Tien, in addition to the massive amount of power Goku gains (his BP rises to 30,000) for no reason. Similarly, Lord Slug takes in the middle of the Namek Saga, as Goku doesn't have Super Saiyan but Piccolo is alive.
  • Cooler's Revenge is actually fine, timeline wise, but the sequel features Dende as Earth's guardian. Broly - The Legendary Super Saiyan also takes place after Gohan is a Super Saiyan, meaning both of these multi-day stories somehow fit into the 9-day gap of the Cell Games. Super Android 13 is also strange because it takes place after Gero's death, meaning that Goku has recovered from the Heart Virus, yet Vegeta almost immediately goes into the Time Chamber after he recovers.
  • In Bio-Broly, 18 wants her money from the Tournament and the world is not in tatter's from Buu's warpath, yet Goku is in the Otherworld with his halo at the very end (FYI, he was only sent back to the Otherworld after going SS3 against Buu). Fusion Reborn also occurs when Goku and Vegeta are still dead, but Gohan isn't with the Kais.
Even if you could find some gaps in time to explain some of these shenanigans, there's still too many contradictions and pieces of evidence that indicate the films aren't part of the DB anime, namely Daizenshuu 6. Here's a bunch of quotes breaking down the timelines, though it doesn't go past movie 7.
  • Movie 1: Due to the appearance of young Gohan, this is unmistakably after Goku and Chi-Chi wed. But due to the fact that Goku, who dies in the battle with Raditz, is alive, this must be an event before Raditz attacked.
  • Movie 2: From Goku’s dōgi having a “Kame” mark on the breast and a “Kaiō” mark on the back, it seems this is an event from between the battle with Vegeta and Goku’s arrival on Planet Namek. However, there are also inconsistencies such as Gohan being on Earth when he should be in the middle of fighting on Planet Namek.
  • Movie 3: From the “Go” mark on the breast and back of Goku’s dōgi, it seems that this is a story from after Goku arrived on Planet Namek. However, there are inconsistencies, like the stage being set on Earth, that make it fair to say that this is a movie-only story.
  • Movie 4: From the fact that Goku has not yet become a Super Saiyan, this story takes place before the final showdown with Freeza. However, at this time Goku should be in the midst of his battle on Planet Namek… This must also be a movie inconsistency.
  • Movie 6: From Goku’s mark-less dōgi, to Dende being God and Vegeta transforming into a Super Saiyan, it can be inferred that this is an event from between when the Cell Games were announced and their opening.
  • Movie 7: The time period can be inferred from the fact that Doctor Gero is exterminated during the course of the film, and that Gohan cannot yet become a Super Saiyan. However, at that time frame Goku was either passed out from his contagious disease or in the middle of training in the Room of Spirit and Time. It could be said that these are the events of a parallel world.

Frieza's Supernova​

The celestial body next to Planet Plant/Vegeta isn't Earth (the scene is at 14:42 of Dragon Ball GT episode 31), most likely a moon (one that King Kai canonically established as existing in the Tuffle's time) of some variety, which is supported by Baby's flashback in episode 27. Assuming Planet Vegeta has the same mass as the canon calculation and the same diameter as Earth, Frieza's supernova yields 2.36008326e40 Joules, or Dwarf Star level+. Oddly, this is only a few times stronger than the high-end of King Vegeta's casual planet destroying handwave.
 
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So basically, only the Garlic Junior stuff would fit into the TV anime versions?

Movie 7 is explicitly stated to take place in a parallel world separate from the other movies, and the other movies, with the exception of Movie 1, are all way too contradictory and inconsistent to fit in-line with the story of the TV anime; The events of Movie 1 are directly referenced in the anime. Movie 5 could be considered "canon" to the TV anime as well since Cooler makes a brief cameo in Episode 42 of Dragon Ball GT, but we don't place Z anime Goku and GT Goku on the same page, so it doesn't really matter too much.
 
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I forgot about Cooler's appearance in GT. That's a very good point.
 
Damn lemme read through this rq.

EDIT: Are all of the movies even canon to each other?
 
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The_real_cal_howard said:
Dead Goku and Vegeta but post-Buu. Doesn’t fit.
Click to expand...
Fusion Reborn connects the Cooler movies, the Broly trilogy, and Bojack Unbound.

Movie 1 exists within the TV anime.
Movie 5, Movie 6, Movie 8, Movie 9, Movie 10, Movie 11, and Movie 12 are all connected through Movie 12, and since Movie 5 and 6 exist within GT, those other movies would be connected to the GT continuity as well.
Movie 7 is explicitly stated to exist in a parallel world in the Daizenshuu.
The other movies (2, 3, 4, 13) are isolated.
 
Random point, but Bojack Unbound is the one movie that has no contradictions (except for extremely minor things like hair and clothing).
 
If I recall correctly, Goku never explicitly states that Gohan was his son, so Gohan and Krillin meeting before the Saiyan Saga isn't necessarily a contradiction, Krillin just found out that Gohan was Goku's kid during the Saiyan Saga.
 
I completely disagree with treating Garlic Junior movie as non-canon considering there's literally an entire saga dedicated to being a follow up to it. Janemba movie is also the one that shows Vegeta learning Metamoran Fusion, which he shows again in GT, so that also is canon.
 
Janemba Movie literally is impossible to take place since it is concurrent with the Buu Saga.

But Garlic Jr. flashbacks are shown in the Anime Saga so it's fine.
 
The only way Fusion Reborn could work is if it was in a timeline where Gohan actually killed Super Buu or something like that. There’s no way to fit it into the proper Buu Saga.
 
Iirc there isn't really an explanation for Icarus being with Gohan in the anime outside of Tree of Might, although ig it could just be an off-screen thing.
 
I mean, if we're going by "doesn't fit the timeline thus non-canon even if explanations are missed for it", then yeah, Turles movie falls into the same as Janemba's, since while something from it comes up again, the origin of it doesn't match the timeline of the series.
 
Tree of Might literally cannot fit within the TV anime's continuity. Goku has the Kaio-ken and the Spirit Bomb and is on Earth, with a battle power of 30,000. However, the Z-Fighters are still alive, and Goku isn't a Super Saiyan, so it couldn't have happened after the Namek Saga either. There is literally no place for it to go.
 
After watching the scene in GT there is no proof that is a moon and not Earth, all we see is a close up of Earth with planet Vegeta in the background, then a perspective change as it pans to focus on Planet Vegeta, so that seems to follow as being Earth. This also makes sense size wise given a planet that is made of similar material to Earth but has 10X gravity would indeed be 10X its diameter. Also Baby resurrected planet Plant only in his wish, so no reason to think its moon would suddenly appear to, that's not part of the wish. That would require unnecessary assumptions. So I disagree with the current calc being wrong.

As for movies having different continuities to the main anime, agreed, they are even said to be “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic” by AT.

www.kanzenshuu.com

Translations | Daizenshuu 6 - Akira Toriyama Super Interview

The final Daizenshuu interview with Dragon Ball author Akira Toriyama in which he discusses the franchise's theatrical films
www.kanzenshuu.com www.kanzenshuu.com

As for some being canon to the anime, and each other or not, you could could make an argument either way.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
As for movies having different continuities to the main anime, agreed, they are even said to be “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the comic” by AT.
Click to expand...
Eh, this just means they don't happen in the manga timeline, which no one is arguing for, however, most of them not fitting chronologically into the anime is more than enough to throw away most of them.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
After watching the scene in GT there is no proof that is a moon and not Earth, all we see is a close up of Earth with planet Vegeta in the background, then a perspective change as it pans to focus on Planet Vegeta, so that seems to follow as being Earth. This also makes sense size wise given a planet that is made of similar material to Earth but has 10X gravity would indeed be 10X its diameter. Also Baby resurrected planet Plant only in his wish, so no reason to think its moon would suddenly appear to, that's not part of the wish. That would require unnecessary assumptions. So I disagree with the current calc being wrong.
Click to expand...
They zoom past Earth, show Planet Plant at a distance, and zoom into it. It literally cannot be Earth, and there's even a flashback in Episode 27 where the moons are still there, despite not having been in the same solar system.

Consistency with IRL physics is irrelevant, it's factually wrong. It's also worth noting that all the occupants of Earth move to Planet Plant and experience no effects from the 10x gravity.

Notice how the moons around Planet Plant aren't even similar in colour to Earth.

His specific wish (to Ultimate Shenron, no less) was to create a planet "exactly like" Planet Plant, which could include moons.
Nullflowerblush said:
If I recall correctly, Goku never explicitly states that Gohan was his son, so Gohan and Krillin meeting before the Saiyan Saga isn't necessarily a contradiction, Krillin just found out that Gohan was Goku's kid during the Saiyan Saga.
Click to expand...
Yet Krillin never takes notice of this in DBZ. Gohan also has never met Piccolo. It's a contradiction, although a minor one.
 
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I agree with this, always found it strange that Anime Goku was just a weird composite of everything Toei put out for Z other than RoF and BoG.
 
I don't personally agree with assuming it is a moon. It very well could be Earth but from a more distant angle since we see that Earth is in front of planet plant in the first perspective we get, just like that celestial body is, and it is to small to say for sure its composition. There is still no reason to believe that Shenron brought back moons from planet plant, that was not stated in the wish, only to bring back the planet itself exactly like it was, not its moons. However we know Earth was in the vicinity and that is why it is likely to be what that celestial object is. Im not saying its impossible that its a moon, but there is nothing to suggest it is, while we know Earth was close to the planet and could logically be what we see. I will admit though that it was an oversight that the gravity didn't seem to change, despite the planet being exactly the same, but that's more them forgetting that the planet plant was planet Vegeta, which had 10X gravity.
 
It's not Earth, though. It zooms on Earth and shows the Plant in the background, and is nowhere near the same angle as the planets.

There is reason to assume he did, because there's another celestial body in orbit, even if the Earth was somehow there (which it most certainly is not). The planet is 1:1 with Baby's flashback.

If they forget that the planet had 10x Earth's gravity, how is Plant/Vegeta size—something that's never directly established (you could infer the Earth is smaller from King Cold's claim that the Earth is tiny)—an oversight?
 
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Looking closer at the placement of Earth with planet plant in the background, I'd agree it wouldn't make sense for the smaller planet depicted beside it to be Earth since zooming out further would also make planet plant smaller.

If the planet were exactly the same, logically it would be 10X gravity as well, so the fact it isn't depicted as such is an oversight. But regardless the size is unknowable aside the implication that Earth is small, and from assuming the planets made of similarly dense material to Earth but ten times the diameter to yield said gravity, which would still be an assumption, even if a likely scenario.
 
I know that the gravity is an oversight, I'm saying the size isn't because it was never established in any DB media. Fiction ignores physics, and the density of the planet is unknown. We can't really determine the size.

I'm fairly sure gravity isn't directly proportional to diameter.

Edit: I might be wrong about the gravity.
 
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I just said I agree that it would still be an assumption on the size, even if an educated guess, and therefore it's unknowable for sure.
 
Gravity SHOULD be proportional to the size... if this wasn't Dragon Ball, the same series that has a planet far smaller than Texas having 10x the gravity of Earth, so it shouldn't really be used to look for a size here.
 
Wikipedia says "the surface gravity of a star or planet is inversely proportional to the square of its radius, and the surface gravity of a planet or star with a given average density will be approximately proportional to its radius." I wonder what exactly this would do to the calc.
 
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If the density is the same, and the radius is 10X larger, it works out to having the gravity be 10X larger. But like was said, we can't be certain the density is the same so it leaves us at a loss for a specific size, although for a planet to be earth sized with 10X gravity it would have to be insanely dense, like denser than uranium on average according to the planetary parameter calculator so it wouldn't make much sense being that small unless you want to claim Planet Vegeta is like a super dense material we haven't discovered yet.


As for King Kais that is true, but its only in other world that the physics are messed up. As far as I know in general the living world is supposed to be relatively normal physics based on reality.
 
It says inversely proportional to the radius^2, though. Not directly proportional.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
That doesn’t mean anything. Only some movies are canon to each other and those are the ones with sequels. So Goku having a scaling chain off of each character is dumb.
Click to expand...
Yes, if only some are canon to each other, then trying to squeeze the huge all these movies are would overblow the profile. Creating keys for a non-canon standalone movie is definitely something that we shouldn't advocate.
 
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