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Death Battle Season Seven Discussion Thread (1) (Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

I'm curious what you're basing this claim on. Because the researchers have clarified ad nauseam that "Character X beats Character Y before they transform" isn't considered a valid win condition in DB unless the character has to jump through a lot of hoops to activate the transformation, such as Captain Marvel needing to absorb energy to become Binary (and they gave her Binary anyway in both her fights lol).

Also, "melting form" isn't a thing, but that's besides the point.

Oh shit really? This would change alot of the tiering of the accuracy list then
 
Speedyroj said:
I'm curious what you're basing this claim on. Because the researchers have clarified ad nauseam that "Character X beats Character Y before they transform" isn't considered a valid win condition in DB unless the character has to jump through a lot of hoops to activate the transformation, such as Captain Marvel needing to absorb energy to become Binary (and they gave her Binary anyway in both her fights lol).
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IMHO that actually makes it a bit more interesting as well.

Which Death Battles would change though? I can think of Zero vs Metal Sonic as Zero now has to fight Metal Overlord
 
>Sonic stats

oh boy

I will say, even with Lucy's power at her peak, I'd still argue Carnage haxes her to death consideirng he still has speed and can shrink himself small enough to flow like an electric current, at which point Lucy would have no resistance to him possessing her, but I think Lucy has a way better chance now after the seeing the research team's arguments.


Also yeah "kill before they reach their highest form" generally isn't considered a valid argument for DB.
 
If killing before transforming isn't a valid argument then Metal vs Zero and Mario vs Sonic 2 would be incorrect from the ones I can think right now
 
Mario Vs Sonic is wrong by this wiki's standards, sure. Though Mario might be being upgraded so the "minimum" 4-A stats will be matched by Mario meaning that Mario can win against those specific stats of Super Sonic.

As for Zero... Eh. Still don't like Metal Overlord scaling to that crap but I guess it's true.

This also means if Star Butterfly did actually face Steven Universe, then base forms simply don't matter so it's literally a stomp match. Good to know we shouldn't even debate base forms anymore, though. Really helpful info.
 
The fact that in Mario VS Sonic 2, they didn't just say that "Hyper Sonic is faster than Mario so he wins" (they outright stated in the episode that they though Hyper Sonic was FTL and Mario was only Massively Hypersonic), meaning that they just didn't plop Sonic in there while Hyper.
 
Pretty sure they didn't count that feat as only travel speed, because that's genuily dumb because Sonic was dodging multiple things while running, I don't think they said it was only travel speed, they just made a mistake, that doesn't debunk what people have said
 
I am not really debating, more like pointing flaws and stuff because of the "kill before transforming" not being a valid argument as some people said before
 
Tipper17 said:
Okay anyways instead of a back n forth on a endless debate who would be a good opponent for Martian Manhunter?
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Well there could be a lot of good opponents, but most likely Piccolo would be sent to death due to their similarities and close connections.

And no one tries to calculate those feats for Static like requests are posted here?
 
Well there could be a lot of good opponents, but most likely Piccolo would be sent to death due to their similarities and close connections.


And no one tries to calculate those feats for Static like requests are posted here?

How heavily requested is that matchup? IDK if DB want to do another DB vs Dc matchup which is practically Goku vs Superman
 
Unoriginal Memes said:
Except if that wasn't a thing then Death Battle would have said that Sonic would've won. Even then, Mario's still over 1,000 times faster than Super Sonic.
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Death Battle makes mistakes like that all the time, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist because of this one controversial fight

Death Battle sometimes ignores their own rechearch, analyzes, what they said in other episodes, ignores abilities they used, etc, that's why it's so critized, thus they saying Sonic is 30% the speed of light but mach 300 Mario can react to him for some reason, that doesn't mean what the others said is incorrect

If we are going to talk about our stats then we should move to the accuracy thread, but first: Death Battle used Hyper Sonic which is already immesurable with no low end; second: even Super Sonic would already be 2-C and immesurable because peak rule; and lastly there's a current CRT which would make his low end 193 quadrillion C, making the low end faster
 
There is nothing to suggest that Death Battle doesn't take into consideration base vs base match ups. Hell, it can be argued that they used Binary Carol's stats in the post-analysis to show she stood absolutely no chance whether she was Binary or not. The fact that they talked about both Mario's and Sonic's base stats means that they didn't put them in with them already at their best forms. There is essentially nothing to suggest that a character can't be killed before accessing a form, and that assumption is almost completely ridiculous.
 
I wasn't the one who said that, others did say they don't count that as a valid win con, that's not a assumption but they straight up making that a rule, but Mario vs Sonic is a poor example when they thought Super Sonic was a temporary form Mario could counter with Invulnerability from Power Stars, so base stats would end up being relevant to the fight, so "character can be killed in base because they use base stats" is not a valid argument when they think the transformation is temporary
 
Unoriginal Memes said:
There is nothing to suggest that Death Battle doesn't take into consideration base vs base match ups. Hell, it can be argued that they used Binary Carol's stats in the post-analysis to show she stood absolutely no chance whether she was Binary or not. The fact that they talked about both Mario's and Sonic's base stats means that they didn't put them in with them already at their best forms. There is essentially nothing to suggest that a character can't be killed before accessing a form, and that assumption is almost completely ridiculous.
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I don't know why you seem to be assuming that I'm just speculating or making shit up here lol. Multiple of their researchers have said, explicitly, that "kill before transform" isn't valid for them unless it's very situational or if the other character has a way to nullify it. Off the top of my head, I know it came up a lot with Aang vs Edward.

With Mario vs Sonic, I'd guess they talked about base because they concluded that Mario can outlast Super Sonic, which makes sense, because they believe different stats for Super Sonic than this site does.
 
Unoriginal Memes said:
That's okay, but I think a neutral standpoint would be best.
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I have this position because it would make my characters win with it

@Speed, yeah, they believe Super Sonic last for a few seconds because of shitty reasons so Mario would outlast him with invencibility power ups,so base would be relevant, unlike here where Super Sonic has a big advantage
 
Phantom Falcon said:
real talk, prob yusuke, but we know he gonna clap if DB's views on YYH are anything to go by
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Well a researcher says he isn't gonna fight yusuke on the show plus yusuke is ichigo second most requested opponent
 
The way I see it's "kill before forms" is a valid argument in a standard VS debate, but in a Death Battle scenario, it doesn't work as much. The super form is the character's peak, so it doesn't follow the "all characters are at peak potential" thing, and more practically, it's just really lame. Imagine if you had Simon the Digger in a fight, and he ended up losing because "Oh well his opponent would just blitz him while he was in Lagann before he could ever reach his higher forms". It's like, nobody wants to see that fight, and you're not taking one character's peak potential into account really.
 
The rule is more so that a character is at their prime, and I see no reason why forms should be a part of that.

And just because it makes stuff more interesting doesn't mean it's better, as VS debating is not about getting the closest fight.
 
Here I'd argue it does. It's an entertainment show at the end of the day. People want to see Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann chucking galaxies and shit, not Simon in his basic mech losing to an oppponet he'd otherwise beat, to use that example again. If you want to analyse each character at their full potential, then forms have to be taken into account, since they're a part of that.
 
I agree, it's extremely boring for a character to lose before they show their full power, reason why in every anime nobody interrupts a transformation, even if they can
 
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