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Death Battle Season Eight Discussion Thread (2) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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Jasonsith said:
Which Kiryu vs which Baki? I see Tokita Ohma vs Baki Hanma as the most requested matchup for Baki Hanma while Wei Shen and Ryo Hazuki are the more requested opponent against Kazuma Kiryu.
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I wasn't aware Baki had a more popular MU, I had seen him thrown against Kiryu a few times and I just wasn't super fond of the MU. Ryo Hazuki isn't terrible, especially being the inspiration for Yakuza and all, but it's a pretty huge stomp on Kiryu's end as far as I'm aware. Kiryu also beats Wei Shen pretty badly, and to be honest, Wei Shen has a much better matchup against another Ryu Ga Gotoku character, Takayuki Yagami. Much closer connections and a generally closer fight, even if it's still a pretty clear win for Yagami.

I've honestly yet to find a MU for Kiryu I'm a big fan of, I guess Ryo is the best one currently... Otherwise John Wick has better opponents in Agent 47 and The Punisher, Wei Shen is better against Yagami, and Baki is a bit too far into lunacy to be fair for Kiryu, and also has better MUs.
 
Nero415 said:
Trunks vs Silver is not redundant oml. Vegeta vs Shadow was a damn S1 episode. Hell, people even said it was wrong at the time. Trunks vs Silver would have new updated research and once that episode happens they would literally finally talk about the high tier stuff for Sonic by scaling Silver to Solaris. Ben doesn't like Sasuke and he seemed be treated well (Well apart from his undeserved loss but that was more on the researchers). They literally have so many ways to make the fight interesting creative.

It literally has potential to be a good episode.
Click to expand...
They don't buy anything with Solaris, they said so in the Mario vs Sonic Rematch in one of the side bars. They tend to completely ignore or not buy any of Sonic's higher end stuff, so no, Silver wouldn't get the necessary stats to win, and we'll still be stuck with their strange lowballed Sonic stats. They didn't mention them in Shadow vs Ryuko to my knowledge, and actively denied them in Mario v Sonic 2, so they're definitely not being used unless something big changed on the research end, and if something like that did happen, they'd retroactively be admitting most of their previous Sonic DBs were incorrect lol, which I doubt they'd want to do.

(Also funnily enough in S1 they composited the games and the comics for Sonic iirc, meaning they put Vegeta against a Game/Archie fusion which is just, hilariously unfair)
 
Tipper17 said:
It's Game time
FIhObtoVkAA7FMG.png
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Man I really loved this MU back in the day, especially when it was pretty close around the time of just NMH1, and still somewhat fair if you discounted Glastonbury with NMH2.

But now that NMH3 is out, it's absolutely unfair for Jack across the board, it'd be one of the bigger statstomps of the series I think.

IIRC Travis' new biggest matchup was Starkiller from the Force Awakens game, a closer stat gap and cool ability trading at least.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
They don't buy anything with Solaris, they said so in the Mario vs Sonic Rematch in one of the side bars. They tend to completely ignore or not buy any of Sonic's higher end stuff, so no, Silver wouldn't get the necessary stats to win, and we'll still be stuck with their strange lowballed Sonic stats. They didn't mention them in Shadow vs Ryuko to my knowledge, and actively denied them in Mario v Sonic 2, so they're definitely not being used unless something big changed on the research end, and if something like that did happen, they'd retroactively be admitting most of their previous Sonic DBs were incorrect lol, which I doubt they'd want to do.

(Also funnily enough in S1 they composited the games and the comics for Sonic iirc, meaning they put Vegeta against a Game/Archie fusion which is just, hilariously unfair)
Click to expand...
Small correction they did mention the high end stuff for the Sonic franchise in a black box for Shadow Vs Ryuko when addressing why they left out KLK iF feats saying the Time Eater was essentially above anything shown KLK iF meaning Shadow would've still won regardless.

Also keep in mind DB have to keep up the "it was a close fight" rhetoric for most fights (Even lopsided predictable stomps).

IIRC in Cloud Vs Link they had black boxes stating if Link was completely composited with the complete Triforce then Cloud would get Dissidia scaling and well we all know how that would turn out plus they considered FF7s pocket reality feats more impressive than LoZs. Yet in the actual episode Cloud was 4-B/MFTL while Link was 5-A/Rel? (I actually can't remember how Link was scaled tbh).
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Small correction they did mention the high end stuff for the Sonic franchise in a black box for Shadow Vs Ryuko when addressing why they left out KLK iF feats saying the Time Eater was essentially above anything shown KLK iF.

Also keep in mind DB have to keep up the "it was a close fight" rhetoric for most fights (Even lopsided predictable stomps).

IIRC in Cloud Vs Link they had a black boxes stating if Link was completely composited with the complete Triforce then Cloud would get Dissidia scaling and well we all know how that would turn out plus they considered FF7s pocket reality feats more impressive than LoZs.
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Ah, thanks for the correction, it's been a while since I watched the research/conclusion for Shadow v Ryuko so it slipped my mind. Strange that they'd bring it up here when they outright said that Sonic himself doesn't scale to the Time Eater or Solaris back in Mario v Sonic 2 lol (I despise that episode).

But yeah, the "it was a close fight" thing is always super funny when they bring up something that proves it was, indeed, not at all a close fight. Them trying to say that after Korra v Storm was particularly funny for reasons we're all aware of.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Ah, thanks for the correction, it's been a while since I watched the research/conclusion for Shadow v Ryuko so it slipped my mind. Strange that they'd bring it up here when they outright said that Sonic himself doesn't scale to the Time Eater or Solaris back in Mario v Sonic 2 lol
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Well S5 vs S8
things do change here n there
 
I'd like if they focused feats that make the match as close as possible, i prefer a counterstomp than an statstomp, because it is completely ridiculous that they go "character A is millions of times stronger and faster" and then "this was a close match".

Dio vs alucard for example, felt stupid how they wanked dio unnecessarily, if they only scaled him to lightspeed and didn't **** the meteor feat, and didn't use anime filler, it would've felt closer.

Dio would've speedblitzed, while his ap would be less ridiculous but still overwhelming and he would be forced to solo the army by himself, and it would be more balanced by his lower travel speed if alucard kept his distance and did the sun stale thing.

Essentially, the lower the number gap, the better.

Now obviously they can't just throw the calcs away, so how about they lowball the winner and then mention that they have potentially higher stuff in the end as a support for their victory.

I imagine that in meowth vs gatomon they could have both at building level but meowth higher, and after the match, they mention the scaling he could get, rather than actually use it and make the MU feel pointless.
 
Tipper17 said:
Sometimes i feel Fans need to understand that Banter can't carry an episode alone on DB
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It can't carry an episode, but it's still an important part of it imo. Or having some kind of character dynamic at all. The main reason we come to DB is to see the CHARACTERS fight, not a list of abilities throw hands. While banter alone can't carry an episode, it can still greatly improve one and give a fight some of it's best moments. Some of the most beloved moments in the series are things such as Iron Man's final speech against Lex, Saitama's personal dialogue before the fight's end, and some character interactions like Ratchet & Clank/Jak & Daxter and Dante vs Bayonetta can truly enhance a fight. I think it's a very overlooked aspect to the importance of a VS Battle.

Something like Cell vs Dark Samus could still work despite no banter possibility due to DS just deadpanning and violently retaliating through anything Cell says. I think that idea falls flat and gets repetitive with most Pokemon though, since they only have one way of communication, their name, besides a select handful (plus I tend to find their movesets boring too).
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
It can't carry an episode, but it's still an important part of it imo. Or having some kind of character dynamic at all. The main reason we come to DB is to see the CHARACTERS fight, not a list of abilities throw hands. While banter alone can't carry an episode, it can still greatly improve one and give a fight some of it's best moments. Some of the most beloved moments in the series are things such as Iron Man's final speech against Lex, Saitama's personal dialogue before the fight's end, and some character interactions like Ratchet & Clank/Jak & Daxter and Dante vs Bayonetta can truly enhance a fight. I think it's a very overlooked aspect to the importance of a VS Battle.

Something like Cell vs Dark Samus could still work despite no banter possibility due to DS just deadpanning and violently retaliating through anything Cell says. I think that idea falls flat and gets repetitive with most Pokemon though, since they only have one way of communication, their name, besides a select handful (plus I tend to find their movesets boring too).
Click to expand...
Oh I know I'm just saying in regards for a fight it can't be the only that carries it
The example you gave had action that made the moments truly remarkable in the show and without good action those moments wouldn't have weight
 
Thelastmlg said:
I'd like if they focused feats that make the match as close as possible, i prefer a counterstomp than an statstomp, because it is completely ridiculous that they go "character A is millions of times stronger and faster" and then "this was a close match".

Dio vs alucard for example, felt stupid how they wanked dio unnecessarily, if they only scaled him to lightspeed and didn't **** the meteor feat, and didn't use anime filler, it would've felt closer.

Dio would've speedblitzed, while his ap would be less ridiculous but still overwhelming and he would be forced to solo the army by himself, and it would be more balanced by his lower travel speed if alucard kept his distance and did the sun stale thing.

Essentially, the lower the number gap, the better.

Now obviously they can't just throw the calcs away, so how about they lowball the winner and then mention that they have potentially higher stuff in the end as a support for their victory.

I imagine that in meowth vs gatomon they could have both at building level but meowth higher, and after the match, they mention the scaling he could get, rather than actually use it and make the MU feel pointless.
Click to expand...
Honestly I think it can be a serious problem for future MUs when they heavily wank certain characters for any future MUs. Especially when some of the calcs are questionable in the first place or have strange canonicity. Street Fighter's scaling is ****** for the rest of DB since they had to use so much in terms of outlier feats for fodder SF characters in order to make Akuma even remotely comparable to Kahn, Dio's absurd speed and strength stats already have people questioning how it's going to affect Tanjiro vs Jonathan, etc etc.

I don't mind character's highest ends being used, just don't do it at the expense of the series' scaling and don't do it using such questionable methods, ultimately.
 
Tots_Real said:
Haha funny, but seriously what is a Disney princess?
Does Mulan count? She a noble but not actually a princess. How about Pocahontas, does she count count? Her culture didn't have princesses. Or Nala and Elsa? Both were more notable as Queens then Pricesses. Or how about Giselle? I know disney did for a while but they pretty much pretend she doesn't exist now.
Click to expand...
en.wikipedia.org

Disney Princess - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If you wanna be a fundamentalist, there are only 12 Princesses as of this comment according to Disney:

  1. Snow White – Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
  2. Cinderella – Cinderella (1950)
  3. Aurora – Sleeping Beauty (1959)
  4. Ariel – The Little Mermaid (1989)
  5. Belle – Beauty and the Beast (1991)
  6. Jasmine – Aladdin (1992)
  7. Pocahontas – Pocahontas (1995)
  8. Mulan – Mulan (1998)
  9. Tiana – The Princess and the Frog (2009)
  10. Rapunzel – Tangled (2010)
  11. Merida – Brave (2012)
  12. Moana – Moana (2016)

Elsa isn't a Disney Princess because Frozen is so popular on its own as a brand, making the Disney Princess label redundant.
 
Well, for analysis, what are the worst 5 non-Ben S1 fight animations? Not counting verdicts that is. Maybe we can see a common trend on what makes a bad DB fight.

It might be tricky to think these as judging can be very different, Beast vs Goliath missed point of characters really badly and the fight is short but technically I'm not sure if itd be in worst 5 fights.

Tho thinking now about Mewtwo vs Shadow, disappointment & missed potential factors seems big lol
 
TMaakkonen said:
Well, for analysis, what are the worst 5 non-Ben S1 fight animations? Not counting verdicts that is. Maybe we can see a common trend on what makes a bad DB fight.

It might be tricky to think these as judging can be very different, Beast vs Goliath missed point of characters really badly and the fight is short but technically I'm not sure if itd be in worst 5 fights.

Tho thinking now about Mewtwo vs Shadow, disappointment & missed potential factors seems big lol
Click to expand...
Mewtwo vs Shadow
Tracer vs Scout
Beast vs Goliath
Bowser vs Ganon

...Ivy vs Orchid? Idk
 
TMaakkonen said:
Well, for analysis, what are the worst 5 non-Ben S1 fight animations? Not counting verdicts that is. Maybe we can see a common trend on what makes a bad DB fight.

It might be tricky to think these as judging can be very different, Beast vs Goliath missed point of characters really badly and the fight is short but technically I'm not sure if itd be in worst 5 fights.

Tho thinking now about Mewtwo vs Shadow, disappointment & missed potential factors seems big lol
Click to expand...
Mewtwo VS Shadow
Beast VS Goliath
Bowser VS Ganon
Raven VS Twilight Sparkle or Deadpool VS Pinkie Pie
Lucario VS Renamon (Posted uncredited furry **** and fun fact, according to the commentary, Renamon's death was going to be much more gruesome with Lucario using Bone Rush to take out her top jaw, then her bottom jaw, before finally killing her by shoving the bone down her throat but reason they implied why this was cut was to avoid the sexual puns likely to come out of it...despite the aforementioned furry **** shown at the end of Renamon's analysis)
Goku VS Superman 2 (Not even an analysis, just running down the real-life history of the characters)
 
fandom_0ホルスファルコン将軍0 said:
en.wikipedia.org

Disney Princess - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If you wanna be a fundamentalist, there are only 12 Princesses as of this comment according to Disney:

  1. Snow White – Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
  2. Cinderella – Cinderella (1950)
  3. Aurora – Sleeping Beauty (1959)
  4. Ariel – The Little Mermaid (1989)
  5. Belle – Beauty and the Beast (1991)
  6. Jasmine – Aladdin (1992)
  7. Pocahontas – Pocahontas (1995)
  8. Mulan – Mulan (1998)
  9. Tiana – The Princess and the Frog (2009)
  10. Rapunzel – Tangled (2010)
  11. Merida – Brave (2012)
  12. Moana – Moana (2016)

Elsa isn't a Disney Princess because Frozen is so popular on its own as a brand, making the Disney Princess label redundant.
Click to expand...
To further this, they could also just remove every princess that doesn’t have combat experience or combat powers
 
Kontororou said:
Mewtwo vs Shadow
Tracer vs Scout
Beast vs Goliath
Bowser vs Ganon

...Ivy vs Orchid? Idk
Click to expand...
fandom_0ホルスファルコン将軍0 said:
Mewtwo VS Shadow
Beast VS Goliath
Bowser VS Ganon
Raven VS Twilight Sparkle or Deadpool VS Pinkie Pie
Lucario VS Renamon
Click to expand...
lol 3 same ones

Even from these, we can see trends of missed potential on fights such as lacking use of powers, bad characterization and getting character stuff wrong and showing it badly and I feel like slow and bland might also describe some of these.

So I guess in that sense, what MUs have most danger to have these flaws?
 
TMaakkonen said:
Well, for analysis, what are the worst 5 non-Ben S1 fight animations? Not counting verdicts that is. Maybe we can see a common trend on what makes a bad DB fight.

It might be tricky to think these as judging can be very different, Beast vs Goliath missed point of characters really badly and the fight is short but technically I'm not sure if itd be in worst 5 fights.

Tho thinking now about Mewtwo vs Shadow, disappointment & missed potential factors seems big lol
Click to expand...
Shadow vs Mewtwo is an immediate perfect choice of the rip, a prime example of everything that could go wrong in a DB and an overall garbage episode no matter how you slice it.

Beast vs Goliath is pretty bad for completely missing the point of the characters.

I personally really dislike Mario vs Sonic 2, it felt like a downgrade from the first in almost every capacity, was criminally short, terribly characterized Mario & Sonic (Mario feels like he's from the weird 2000s era of Asshole Mario, and Sonic is a ******* punk now and gets ragdolled nearly the entire fight), used almost none of the new potential brought about from re-using them, had a limp finale, an insulting finisher, and just overall looked like a shitty Family Guy cutaway gag, I like nothing about that episode, not a thing.

Bowser vs Ganon is pretty terrible, although it has a fun bit in the tennis exchange.

There's an abundance of other terrible/filler fights we could name off too, but they're more wastes of space than inherently terrible.

Not outright terrible but I was absurdly disappointed by Nate vs Laura, poorly paced nonsensical fight that was barely a fight. Clearly rushed and unfinished.
 
Lara vs Drake was def kinda rushed. They already delayed PR vs Voltron from S3 finale due to issues so what chance did Lara vs Drake have? And while its dislikes were overblown, they did kill Drake via debris which... is a choice certainly.

Lucario vs Renamon might just be blandest ep overall, not even as just a fight. I forgot they apparently showed Renamon **** there but those usually sound cursed enough to remember lol.

I do think S2 early eps are also mostly forgotten about, the ones before Pokemon BR & Luigi vs Tails. Most S1 eps are talked more than those forgotten early S2 eps.
 
fandom_0ホルスファルコン将軍0 said:
en.wikipedia.org

Disney Princess - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

If you wanna be a fundamentalist, there are only 12 Princesses as of this comment according to Disney:

  1. Snow White – Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937)
  2. Cinderella – Cinderella (1950)
  3. Aurora – Sleeping Beauty (1959)
  4. Ariel – The Little Mermaid (1989)
  5. Belle – Beauty and the Beast (1991)
  6. Jasmine – Aladdin (1992)
  7. Pocahontas – Pocahontas (1995)
  8. Mulan – Mulan (1998)
  9. Tiana – The Princess and the Frog (2009)
  10. Rapunzel – Tangled (2010)
  11. Merida – Brave (2012)
  12. Moana – Moana (2016)

Elsa isn't a Disney Princess because Frozen is so popular on its own as a brand, making the Disney Princess label redundant.
Click to expand...
Technically true, but it feels disingenuous to not include Elsa and Anna. They're constantly being promoted alongside the other princesses, and regularly featured together. Plus having Elsa there just gives the fight a lot more animation potential.
 
Old era DB was a mixed Bag of quality
Sure there were Bangers but like When you factor the ******* episodes existing as well
its kinda oof tier


Modern DB is far more consistent in its quality then older DB
Old Era is 1/4 in seasons that was good

While Modern is 3/4 in seasons that were good
 
fandom_0ホルスファルコン将軍0 said:
But then in that case you'll only have like Mulan, Moana, Merida, Rapunzel, and mayyyyybe Tiana.
Click to expand...
Actually Cinderella (is she?) has magic in some comic book or TV animation series as mentioned in Community Death Battle.

Ariel, Mulan, Moana, Merida, Rapunzel and "legends" Cinderella whoever has magic (not in specific order) are the top six from the public perspective.

 
Theburgerking11 said:
Click to expand...

Someone orders teasing / promotion for Season 9 matchups eh

Legends Boba Fett is awesome. But he is kind of a clown in the real series. Din Djarin, meanwhile, is awesome despite being far weaker. Oh the selling point is exactly how a weakling strives to protect a baby of a powerful race.
 
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