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DC/Crisis Cosmology Revision

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Elizio33 said:
What do you think about a 1-A, possibly 0 Tier for Creator/Presence/God ?
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Swamp Thing's description of God as being one with the Void. Not to mention non-dual(beyond the war of Light and Darkness, and all opposite), immutable(being in a place that has no time or space), and Creation just a perfect symmetry of his breath. Not to mention like 0, he's not cosmologically bound to a hierarchy hence no opposite and one with the Void. I think “possibly 0” isn't a bad shout.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
My analogy is that Divine Contnium is the Multiverse itself. Being that Time and Space encompass everything ie the Omniverse is the total structure of the Multiverse and Hypertime is all the time in the Multiverse so all things in the Multiverse are linked to some form of space or time. For all intents and purposes, the Sixth Dimension is still part of the Multiverse and thus part of the Divine Conntium. That's my thought process on the matter.

Sixth Dimension is a plane thus it is bounded by the space portion.

The Sixth Dimension about twenty billion years ago birth the Multiverse thus it is bounded by the time portion.

Perhaps, I'm thinking about it too hard.
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I think you might be overthinking this. It is no exaggeration to say that the Sixth Dimension is the highest and final plane of existence in the Divine Continuum. Furthermore, Hypertime is associated with the Fourth Dimension/Time which the Sixth Dimension surpasses (but not transcends) in the cosmology.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Swamp Thing's description of God as being one with the Void. Not to mention non-dual(beyond the war of Light and Darkness, and all opposite), immutable(being in a place that has no time or space), and Creation just a perfect symmetry of his breath. Not to mention like 0, he's not cosmologically bound to a hierarchy hence no opposite and one with the Void. I think “possibly 0” isn't a bad shout.
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Yes.
 
Elizio33 said:
I think you might be overthinking this. It is no exaggeration to say that the Sixth Dimension is the highest and final plane of existence in the Divine Continuum. Furthermore, Hypertime is associated with the Fourth Dimension/Time which the Sixth Dimension surpasses in the cosmology.
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Perhaps. Though I don't know think Hypertime is a dimension of time. Rather the very abstract concept of Time itself is different from the physics dimension of time. Plus it's coequal with the Omniverse portion. It wouldn't make sense that it's below anything.
 
Anyway. Low 1-C for the Monitors, Thought Robot, Mandrakk and 1-B for the Monitor, Anti-Monitor, World Forger, Perpetua, Darkest Knight, Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman, Doctor Manhattan, The Hands should be fine. Unless, we consider The Hands having BDE 2 which would grant them a Low 1-A Tier. The Arc Angles should have either a Low 1-A or a flat 1-A Tier.
 
Elizio33 said:
Anyway. Low 1-C for the Monitors, Thought Robot, Mandrakk and 1-B for the Monitor, Anti-Monitor, World Forger, Perpetua, Darkest Knight, Anti-Crisis Wonder Woman, Doctor Manhattan, The Hands should be fine. Unless, we consider The Hands having BDE 2 which would grant them a Low 1-A Tier.
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Low 1-A Hand is fine given that they're not treated as ontologically superior to the Multiverse, but very much beyond it. I think Low 1-A is a good shout. However, I would think “possibly Low 1-A” for Darkest Knight, Perpetua, and Wonder Woman is fine as well.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Low 1-A Hand is fine given that they're not treated as ontologically superior to the Multiverse, but very much beyond it. I think Low 1-A is a good shout. However, I would think “possibly Low 1-A” for Darkest Knight, Perpetua, and Wonder Woman is fine as well.
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Yeah 1-B, possibly Low 1-A would be fine for them. However, Perpetua was said to be the most feared and riveled being among her kinds, Hands, but Scott Snyder said in an interview that Perpetua's whole nature and stature diminished since she was sealed in the Source Wall. This could easily remedy this problem as one could say that her position within the cosmological hierarchy has been diminished compared to The Hands. A straight Low 1-A Perpetua would mean putting her sons on the same tier as she is far more powerful than them, but does not transcend them, but saying that she once had a transcendental nature and stature before her imprisonment would make more sense.
 
Elizio33 said:
Yeah 1-B, possibly Low 1-A would be fine for them. However, Perpetua was said to be the most feared and riveled being among her kinds, Hands, but Scott Snyder said in an interview that Perpetua's whole nature and stature diminished since she was sealed in the Source Wall. This could easily remedy this problem as one could say that her position within the cosmological hierarchy has been diminished compared to The Hands. A straight Low 1-A Perpetua would mean putting her sons on the same tier as she is far more powerful than them, but does not transcend them, but saying that she once had a transcendental nature and stature before her imprisonment would make more sense.
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Perpetua

Tier: 1-B. Likely Low 1-A

Attack Potency: Hyperverse level (Superior to her three children and stalemated the Ultra-Monitor while she lacked her full power. Having restored most of her power, Perpetua was able to re-string the Multiverse with the Forces of Doom and to subdue the Ultra-Monitor with the Anti-Life Equation. As the Multiverse was dominated by the Forces of Doom, Perpetua drew upon all the energy needed to bring the Orrery of Worlds to the brink of destruction and threatened to reshape the Multiverse in her image with these energies. Was the only being able to match the Darkest Knight and fought him in a clash that raged across every facet of reality). Likely Low Outerverse level (Perpetua was the most feared being among The Hands, and tore pieces from the Overvoid to create her three sons)
 
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The Hands

Tier: Low 1-A

Attack Potency: Low Outerverse level (The Hands completely transcend the Multiverse, being the unseen rulers beyond the Source Wall and maintaining order across the infinite Multiverses of the Greater Omniverse under oath to The Source, using the Connective Energy born of The Source. Should be individually comparable to Perpetua in her full might who tore pieces from the Overvoid, although Perpetua feared that if her siblings discovered her actions, they would come for her and erase her and her Multiverse from existence)
 
Elizio33 said:
Orrery of Worlds - High 1-C: The multiversal superstructure of fifty-two brane universes with eleven dimensions of which four visible dimensions constitute a single universe while the seven highest dimensions are folded so tightly that they are undetectable by any scientific instruments invented in the 20th or early 21st centuries. These higher dimensions are outside the conventional space in any normal universe. It's possible that the Orrery of Worlds is not limited to eleven dimensions and that there may be higher dimensions, but since their locations in the cosmology have not been decided, it is difficult to locate them correctly.

Sphere of the Gods - 1-B: The magical sphere surrounding the Orrery of Worlds inhabited by gods, demigods, angels, demons or any magical being worshiped by mortals. It is located outside the Orrery's superluminal barrier, where matter is converted into pure information and thus outside of corporeal reality, having archetypal, platonic and higher vibratory worlds. It has close ties to beliefs which shaped every realm or entity in the Sphere of the Gods through the Collective Unconscious, and is one of the Connective Energy born of The Source. At the crest of the Sphere of the Gods is the Collective Unconscious, which manifests divinity through belief and is inhabited by Hecate. It is also one of the Connective Energy.

Comic Book Limbo - 1-B: The last outpost of existence proper before reaching the Monitor Sphere and is the dumping ground for all the forgotten of the Orrery of Worlds.

Monitor Sphere - 1-B: The archetypal Monitor World inhabited by the Monitors of Nil, a primal and fundamental world where space, time, scale are more profound and meaningful. It exists at the edge of things and when Mandrakk fell from there, he fell into the Overvoid and landed in the Dark Multiverse. From there, Mar Novu peered beyond the void, into the Greater Omniverse, to observe the neighboring Multiverses.

Dark Multiverse - 1-B: The sea of the unconscious upon which floats the Multiverse, located beneath Creation, and containing infinite universes based on the hopes and fears of all living beings in the Orrery of Worlds above. At the center of the Dark Multiverse lies the Forge of Worlds, a place of pure possibility and dark matter, where universes are forged and returned. On the border surrounding the Dark Multiverse is the Otherworld inhabited by the Otherkinds and the Upside-Down Man. It is the dark yet much larger equivalent of the Sphere of the Gods.

Divine Continuum - 1-B: The hypothetical model of Existence which is represented by all space and time. (i.e. Omniverse and Hypertime) The Space aspect of the Divine Continuum (Omniverse) is divided by the Orrery of Worlds (and infinite Multiverses), Metaverse (Earth Prime), Sphere of the Gods, Dark Multiverse. The Time aspect of the Divine Continuum (Hypertime) is divided into Limbo and Vanishing Point. It is very likely that higher layers of existence from the SpectraVerse are contained within it, though some layers are outside of Creation.

Fifth Dimension - 1-B: The "energy" that flows between realms is Imagination and is inhabited by imaginary-thought constructs which are considered as "imaginary friends" or "guardian angels". It exists everywhere at once because it is outside of time and therefore has no specific location in cosmology.

Sixth Dimension - 1-B: The highest plane of existence and the final realm, between the Monitor Sphere and the Source Wall within the model of the DC Comics Cosmology. It is a realm of the impossible for things beyond the imagination of most living beings and is outside of time and understanding, in which lower beings could not experience without higher intervention. It distinct itself from the Monitor Sphere in that, although the Monitor Sphere exists at the edge of things, the Sixth Dimension is the highest plane of existence where the Multiverse was designed and set to motion by Perpetua.

Greater Omniverse/Infinite - 1-A: Outside the Source Wall lies the "Infinite" or "Greater Omniverse" located within the Overvoid outside and beyond Creation, having conceptual places beyond space and time and where thought and expression are one. It is where infinite Multiverses are created and judged by The Hands, and where the Deep Change operates, the Speed Force being an enmanation of the Deep Change and one of the Connective Energy born of The Source, which itself contains the Gallery of Moments/Garden of Shadows.

The Source - 1-A: An ocean of great energy of creation that gave rise to, encompasses and sustains everything in the Greater Omniverse, and from The Source were born the Connective Energy, including the Speed Force, used by The Hands to shape Multiverses throughout the Overvoid. It has close ties to life and creation and contains life and anti-life, good and evil, up and down, in and out, black and white, all at once, and should be regarded as an ultimate concept that cannot be halved or divided.

Light of Creation/Monitor-Mind - 1-A: The living conscious void and abstract intelligence outside the Source Wall. It is the white canvas of Creation outside of time and space, between Creation and the Great Darkness, and is sometimes tied to Heaven, Angels and Creation. It is also an aspect of The Presence, created when the latter said: "Let there be light!" It exists on the same level of existence as The Source and they share an equal nature and stature.

Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness - 1-A: The Primordial Darkness preceding life, death, matter and magic and of which nothing and everything were the same thing. The Source and The Light of Creation were born of the Primordial Darkness which encompasses all.

Creator/Presence/God - 1-A, possibly 0: The non-dual and immutable God who breathed everything into existence, standing utterly beyond the war of Light and Darkness, and all opposites, and is in a place where there is no time or space, being synonymous with the Void. It manifest itself in three distinct yet equal figures: Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, The Light of Creation. The Voice who created The Word when he first spoken, commanding The Light through it, is an aspect of God.
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@Antvasima @ProfectusInfinity @VeryGoofyToddler @Ultima_Reality what do you think?
 
I suggest waiting for a week before applying these cuz Flash #12 will be coming out in Aug 28th. We will get to see the new supreme being who lies beyond source wall. That might brings a lot of changes since Arc Angles are already 1-A. They are treating that entity as a higher level of existence. Multiverse is also its creation which it emanate endlessly.
Also, Arc Angles are described as "Divinities of Curved Corner" by Stillness. Arc Angles also said "Behold the brink of infinity. the edge of curved corner". So, the level of existence, Arc Angles reside would be inferior to whatever beyond the source wall. Curved Corner can also mean source wall.
 
Weaver261 said:
I suggest waiting for a week before applying these cuz Flash #12 will be coming out in Aug 28th. We will get to see the new supreme being who lies beyond source wall. That might brings a lot of changes since Arc Angles are already 1-A. They are treating that entity as a higher level of existence. Multiverse is also its creation which it emanate endlessly.
Also, Arc Angles are described as "Divinities of Curved Corner" by Stillness. Arc Angles also said "Behold the brink of infinity. the edge of curved corner". So, the level of existence, Arc Angles reside would be inferior to whatever beyond the source wall. Curved Corner can also mean source wall.
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This seems reasonable to me.
 
Elizio33 said:
Yeah 1-B, possibly Low 1-A would be fine for them. However, Perpetua was said to be the most feared and riveled being among her kinds, Hands, but Scott Snyder said in an interview that Perpetua's whole nature and stature diminished since she was sealed in the Source Wall. This could easily remedy this problem as one could say that her position within the cosmological hierarchy has been diminished compared to The Hands. A straight Low 1-A Perpetua would mean putting her sons on the same tier as she is far more powerful than them, but does not transcend them, but saying that she once had a transcendental nature and stature before her imprisonment would make more sense.
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Didn't the Hands admit that TDK could kill them? Not sure a possibly is needed but if it is then not a big deal.
 
Eseseso said:
Didn't the Hands admit that TDK could kill them? Not sure a possibly is needed but if it is then not a big deal.
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The "Possibility Low 1-A" is because of Perpetua who was said by Scott Snyder to have her whole nature and stature diminished since she was locked away in the Source Wall despite having most of her former power back in the comics. The Hands are Flat Low 1-A.
 
So who agrees and who disagrees with the OP's proposal ? (See the full proposal in the OP)
 
After reading the full proposal, the last things I want to say are:
  • I still would rather we replace the 11-D justifications from the Wildstorm Role-Playing Game Handbook with the 11-D comic scans I provided.
  • Many of the updated justifications in the OP for the higher planes beyond the Orrery include the term "qualitative superiority," but under the new Tiering System, "qualitative superiority" exclusively denotes an entire Outerverse level gap, and single +1 dimensional gaps must be recognized using the term "quantitative superiority" instead.
  • Though this isn't in the OP, I've seen mentions of the Hands being 1-A based on BDE Type 2, but that's outdated and actually just needs to be downgraded entirely to Type 1, since they don't have 1-A true state ratings under the proposed cosmology.
 
I found a typo:
Unseen Council - Low 1-A: The hierarchy of unseen beings that eventually reach The Source. They reside outside the Source Wall, in the Overvoid where they oversee the infinite Multiverses within the Greater Omniverse under oath to The Source. Although they are positioned far higher in the hierarchy than any god within the Sphere of the Gods or the Monitor Sphere and have qualitative superiority over the Multiverse, they are not ontologically superior to it.
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Should be this:
Unseen Council - Low 1-A: The hierarchy of unseen beings that eventually reach The Source. They reside outside the Source Wall, in the Overvoid where they oversee the infinite Multiverses within the Greater Omniverse under oath to The Source. Although they are positioned far higher in the hierarchy than any god within the Sphere of the Gods or the Monitor Sphere and have quantitative superiority over the Multiverse, they are not ontologically superior to it.
Click to expand...
Adjust qualitative superiority to quantitative superiority since being ontologically superior is what is considered “qualitative.”
 
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