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Hello! Following this thread and with the new tiering system of @Ultima_Reality, it is now time to revise our current tiers for the DC Comics Cosmology. Since, from what i understood, there are threads about revising the DeMatteis and the Vertigo cosmologies that are still ongoing, this thread would be specifically for the Crisis/Modern Cosmology, and in the process, why not update some of the Orrery of Worlds stuff.
vsbattles.fandom.com
It has been repeatedly shown that the DC Multiverse is not limited to five dimensions, but actually has eleven dimensions based on M-Theory and Brane Cosmology (ten dimensions plus one temporal). The 2016's Hellblazer story suggested infinite planes and possibilities, including the Elemental Realms, which are serviced by eleven-dimensional invisible membranes of space and time. This would upgrade the Bleed and the Orrery of Worlds to High 1-C to be the "Bulk" containing those dimensions, and the Orrery of Worlds for containing the Bleed.
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Now, let's talk about the Greater Omniverse and the Big Three.
The new Flash series provided new insights into DC Comics Cosmology, introducing N-dimensional structures and a cosmological chart of dimensions based on Wally West's interference patterns as he folded through dimensions called "SpectraVerse" having either ten, eleven, or twenty-six discrete frequencies. These are essentially layers of existence and the SpectraVerse is a dimensional vibration to access different layers. The same story also featured an unknown conceptual place within the Speed Force called the "Garden of Shadows" or "Gallery of Moments", beyond the Source Wall, beneath everything, deeper than space and time and where though and expression are one.
This alone should qualify for a possible 1-A tier because this place is deeper than the concept of space and time, and everything is more profound there and generates a relationship to R>F as Wally West interacted through the comic book panel in a place far beyond and below time and space.
The Greater Omniverse was referred to as "Infinite" in this story and should scale to this since the Speed Force is part of The Source, and The Source gave rise to, encompasses and sustains all contents of the Greater Omniverse. Monitor-Mind The Overvoid/The Light of Creation should also scale to it for sharing an equal nature and stature to The Source and being the canvas of Creation outside space and time.
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Thank you!
Agree: @VeryGoofyToddler @Antvasima @ProfectusInfinity @Firestorm808 @AerrowStorm1
Disagree:
Neutral: @Accelerated_Evolution
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DC Comics Cosmology
This page is dedicated to outlining the distinctions between DC Comics's different cosmologies. To summarize, the DC Universe has three dominant cosmologies characterized primarily (but not exclusively) by their authors: Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, and Joshua Williamson; J.M...
Crisis Cosmology
Dimensionality of the Orrery:It has been repeatedly shown that the DC Multiverse is not limited to five dimensions, but actually has eleven dimensions based on M-Theory and Brane Cosmology (ten dimensions plus one temporal). The 2016's Hellblazer story suggested infinite planes and possibilities, including the Elemental Realms, which are serviced by eleven-dimensional invisible membranes of space and time. This would upgrade the Bleed and the Orrery of Worlds to High 1-C to be the "Bulk" containing those dimensions, and the Orrery of Worlds for containing the Bleed.
How this would affect the rest?
Orrery of Worlds:Before:
After:Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and the Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.
Sphere of the Gods & Collective Unconscious:Orrery of Worlds - High 1-C: The multiversal superstructure of fifty-two brane universes with eleven dimensions based on M-Theory and Brane Cosmology of which four dimensions constitute any single universe within the 11-D "Bulk" or "Bleed". It's possible that the Orrery of Worlds is not limited to eleven dimensions and that there may be higher dimensions, but since their locations in the cosmology have not been decided, it is difficult to locate them correctly.
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After:Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given their qualitative superiority over the Orrery of Worlds, adhering to two infinities above Low 2-C.
Comic Book Limbo:Sphere of the Gods - 1-B: The magical sphere surrounding the Orrery of Worlds inhabited by gods, demigods, angels, demons or any magical being worshiped by mortals. It is located outside the Orrery's superluminal barrier, where matter is converted into pure information and thus outside of corporeal reality, having archetypal, platonic, and higher vibratory worlds than those of the Orrery of Worlds. It has close ties to beliefs which shaped every realm or entity in the Sphere of the Gods through the Collective Unconscious, and is one of the Connective Energy born of The Source. At the crest of the Sphere of the Gods is the Collective Unconscious, which manifests divinity through belief and is inhabited by Hecate. It is also one of the Connective Energy.
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After:Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.
Monitor Sphere:Comic Book Limbo - 1-B: The last outpost of existence proper before reaching the Monitor Sphere and is the dumping ground for all the forgotten of the Orrery of Worlds. Despite being positioned higher on the Map of the Multiverse, Comic Book Limbo has shown no signs of quantitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods.
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After:The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.
The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.
Dark Multiverse:Monitor Sphere - 1-B: The archetypal Monitor World inhabited by the Monitors of Nil, a primal and fundamental world where space, time, scale are more profound and meaningful. It exists at the edge of things, on a higher plane of existence than Comic Book Limbo, and when Mandrakk fell from there, he fell into the Overvoid and landed in the Dark Multiverse. From there, Mar Novu peered beyond the void, into the Greater Omniverse, to observe the neighboring Multiverses.
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After:The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.
Divine Continuum/Totality of Creation:Dark Multiverse - 1-B: The sea of the unconscious upon which floats the Multiverse, located beneath Creation, and containing infinite universes based on the hopes and fears of all living beings in the Orrery of Worlds above. At the center of the Dark Multiverse lies the Forge of Worlds, a place of pure possibility and dark matter, where universes are forged and returned. On the border surrounding the Dark Multiverse is the Otherworld inhabited by the Otherkinds and the Upside-Down Man. It is the dark yet much larger equivalent of the Sphere of the Gods.
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After:The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.
Fifth Dimension:Divine Continuum - 1-B: The hypothetical model of Existence which is represented by all space and time. (i.e. Omniverse and Hypertime) The Space aspect of the Divine Continuum (Omniverse) is divided by the Orrery of Worlds (and infinite Multiverses), Metaverse (Earth Prime), Sphere of the Gods, Dark Multiverse. The Time aspect of the Divine Continuum (Hypertime) is divided into Limbo and Vanishing Point. It is very likely that higher layers of existence from the SpectraVerse are contained within it, though some layers are outside of Creation.
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After:The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.
Sixth Dimension:Fifth Dimension - 1-B: The "energy" that flows between realms is Imagination and is inhabited by imaginary-thought constructs which are considered as "imaginary friends" or "guardian angels". It exists everywhere at once, outside of Time and Hypertime. It has no specific place in the cosmology.
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After:The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.
Sixth Dimension - 1-B: The highest plane of existence and the final realm, between the Monitor Sphere and the Source Wall within the model of the DC Comics Cosmology. It is a realm of the impossible for things beyond the imagination of most living beings and is outside of time and understanding, in which lower beings could not experience without higher intervention. It distinct itself from the Monitor Sphere in that, although the Monitor Sphere exists at the edge of things, the Sixth Dimension is the highest plane of existence where the Multiverse was designed and set to motion by Perpetua.
Now, let's talk about the Greater Omniverse and the Big Three.
The new Flash series provided new insights into DC Comics Cosmology, introducing N-dimensional structures and a cosmological chart of dimensions based on Wally West's interference patterns as he folded through dimensions called "SpectraVerse" having either ten, eleven, or twenty-six discrete frequencies. These are essentially layers of existence and the SpectraVerse is a dimensional vibration to access different layers. The same story also featured an unknown conceptual place within the Speed Force called the "Garden of Shadows" or "Gallery of Moments", beyond the Source Wall, beneath everything, deeper than space and time and where though and expression are one.
This alone should qualify for a possible 1-A tier because this place is deeper than the concept of space and time, and everything is more profound there and generates a relationship to R>F as Wally West interacted through the comic book panel in a place far beyond and below time and space.
The Greater Omniverse was referred to as "Infinite" in this story and should scale to this since the Speed Force is part of The Source, and The Source gave rise to, encompasses and sustains all contents of the Greater Omniverse. Monitor-Mind The Overvoid/The Light of Creation should also scale to it for sharing an equal nature and stature to The Source and being the canvas of Creation outside space and time.
How would they be affected?
Greater Omniverse:Before:
After:Beings from the Unseen Council are High 1-C for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, equal to Perpetua at her full might individually.
Unseen Council/Hands:Greater Omniverse/Infinite - 1-A: Outside the Source Wall lies the "Infinite" or "Greater Omniverse" located within the Overvoid outside and beyond Creation, having conceptual places beyond space and time and where thought and expression are one. It is where infinite Multiverses are created and judged by The Hands, and where the Deep Change operates, the Speed Force being an enmanation of the Deep Change and one of the Connective Energy born of The Source, which itself contains the Gallery of Moments/Garden of Shadows.
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After:Beings from the Unseen Council are High 1-C for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, equal to Perpetua at her full might individually.
Source/Overvoid/Light:Unseen Council - Low 1-A: The hierarchy of unseen beings that eventually reach The Source. They reside outside the Source Wall, in the Overvoid where they oversee the infinite Multiverses within the Greater Omniverse under oath to The Source. Although they are positioned far higher in the hierarchy than any god within the Sphere of the Gods or the Monitor Sphere and have quantitative superiority over the Multiverse, they are not ontologically superior to it.
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After:The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation are 1-B for completely transcending the Divine Continuum and, by extension, all space and time.
Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness:Source/Overvoid/Light - 1-A: The three primordial aspects of The Presence that gave rise to, encompasses and sustains everything in the Greater Omniverse. The Source is the great energy of creation associated with Life and Creation from which any of the Connective Energy, which includes the Speed Force, were born and used by The Hands to shape Multiversal Systems within the Void. The Overvoid/Light of Creation, sometimes associated with Heaven, Angels and Creation, is the conscious living void and canvas of Creation outside of time and space and between the Multiverse and the Great Darkness.
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After:The Great Darkness is 1-B for preceding, encompassing, and surpassing The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation.
Creator/Presence/God:Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness - 1-A: The Primordial Darkness preceding life, death, matter and magic and of which nothing and everything were the same thing. The Source and The Light of Creation were born of the Primordial Darkness which encompasses all.
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After:The Creator is 1-B for surpassing the Primordial Darkness in power, and for being as transcendent to the Divine Continuum as The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation are.
Creator/Presence/God - 1-A: The non-dual and immutable God who breathed everything into existence, standing utterly beyond the war of Light and Darkness, and all opposites, and is in a place where there is no time or space, being synonymous with the Void. It manifest itself in three distinct yet equal figures: Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, The Light of Creation. The Voice who created The Word when he first spoken, commanding The Light through it, is an aspect of God.
Thank you!
Agree: @VeryGoofyToddler @Antvasima @ProfectusInfinity @Firestorm808 @AerrowStorm1
Disagree:
Neutral: @Accelerated_Evolution
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