CTR for Etherion Downgrade

[CNBA3]

This has been on my mind lately, about estimating the size of an Etherion blast which people assume is Fiore, which is based on a massive assumption, we do not know if it was the actual size of the nation, yet we do know how big it is from when we have shown how it works here.

And before people say it is based on an imagination, it is stated to have been used before, when to deter Alvarez from invading.

And there are very small countries people seem to have forgotten such as the Principality of Veronica, the fact that it is so small in comparison to other nations would make it clear even when looking at a map, especially when built around the ruins of the Phoenix Village, and considering that it is a Principality as well.

And during the Tower of Heaven arc, the Council was stating that they are actually attacking a foreign nation if they use Etherio, so that would suggest that it is not as big as one might suggest.

This CTR is to get rid of any Assumptions and use any concrete evidence as a means to stat it.

 

[CNBA3]

Bump

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Aight, lemme make this quick.

• Fiore is the main country and setting for the series.
• Etherion is stated to be able to destroy a country.
• It was gonna be fired right off the coast of Fiore.
• The Council had to be conviced that if at its smallest blast radius, Fiore wouldn't be affected too much.
• The countries next to Fiore are similar in size.
• Occam's razor

This may now be closed.

 

[CNBA3]

• That does not make it a qualified nation for Etherion size calc

• Veronica is a nation too and the blast radius from multiple points would support it being around it's size

• It is described to be just the Tower of Heaven and the council stated it would be to attack Kael-Um. Not destroy it

• They never mentioned that Fiore would be affected, just the concern for attacking another nation and the number of lives that would be lost in the tower.

• Veronica is smaller than Fiore and the blast radius would support this. And they are not the same size as Fiore, otherwise I would say The Kingdom of Pergrande would be applicable.

• doesn't really apply to this

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Yep, exactly what Anonymous said, plus the fact that the panel above was an imaginary blast that was never actually fired and can't be assumed as such, also Veronica is literally the size of a City so it's more of a small nation than a country like every other country is in Fiore, during the tower of heaven arc, the Etherion blast was minimalized so it wouldn't cause destruction

Using this imaginary image that was never confirmed as the blast used against Alvarez Empire to scale to Etherion is just like using the Tower of Heaven Blast as Etherion's Max, It's max power is stated to destroy a country in one shot, using a lowballed imaginary blast is far less reliable

 

[CNBA3]

Where was it stated to be imaginary, you have to prove it, you can't just assume these things. it is stated to be a nation, it doesn't matter what size it is, also stated by Anonymous when telling me that even the Vatican is a nation too. At least I proved that it was used before and the blast can be used. You have to prove it being imaginary, the burden is on you. If anything, I am using objective facts to verify my points.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

It's imaginary because it's in Jellal's head, not to mention the blast was still expanding after that intial image as proven by the manga and anime, also it was stated Etherion can destroy a country in one shot, it's just always reduced in radius and destruction because if not there would be mass casualties

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Occam's razor, nuff said.

Your counter argument is the shitty little principality city-state?

The Tower was off the coast of Fiore.

Literally irrelevant, Etherion was gonna **** up a nation without a direct hit and this was with the blast being controlled to not cause mass destruction.

Veronica is smaller than Crocus. If they say Etherion will bust a country, they sure as hell aren't referring to a tiny backwater city state smaller than the capitol of a tiny ass nation (in comparison to other Ishgar countries on Earthland maps) with a population in the low end double digit millions spread across about as much land as Europe.

 

[CNBA3]

Where was it stated to be in Jellal's head, for all we know that was an actual blast when they used it to deter Alvarez, it was stated to be used before. It was even shown outside that panel which does not make it part of his "imagination". Then it would be possibly higher, does not make it hyperbolic to claim that it is the size of Fiore. It was not stated to reduce in size, they just can target anywhere in the world, in fact, Jellal stated that there is no other weapon capable of destroying a large structure like the Tower of Heaven, which would state what the size is

 

[The_Calaca]

@Mitch No need to summon me, I'm already here.

Can someone post the chapter where the shot is proven imaginary?

 

[CNBA3]

@Anonymous, It is still called a country, and the blast size would support this.

Tower of Heaven as part of Kael-Um as stated by a council member, and as stated that Etherion was the only weapon powerful big enough to destroy a large structure like the tower

Where was it stated to be affecting a nation without direct hit? They just stated that it would destroy the tower and everyone inside, it would be just attacking a different nation without warrant.

That is funny coming from a guy who said that the Vatican is a nation too. Anyway, it is still a nation and thus is valid for it being part of the equation

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@The Calaca

Chapter 79

It is a blast shown when Sieg/Jellal is explaining to use Etherion, therefore it is just an imaginary blast that didn't actually happen, it's just a fake example of what Etherion would do, plus the blast in that imaginary blast was still increasing in size which CNBA3's calc doesn't account for, as well this doesn't matter anyway since Etherion is almost always restricted in radius when used because if not, it would cause mass destruction, so the Tower of Heaven Blast is the minimal possible area of destruction

Etherion is stated multiple times to be able to One-Shot Countries and Fiore is one of the smallest on the continent of Ishgar and we can know it's size by in verse measurements, so it's the best way to calc Etherion's AP, this has also been agreed upon many times before by Dragonmaster and Aidenbrooks who were big time supporters


The anime shows that the blast is shown still expanding plus the blast fades to white cause it is in Jellal's head and shows that it didn't actually happe

 

[The_Calaca]

That seems correct. I agree with the debunk.

 

[CNBA3]

Again, did it show to be a memory or imaginary, because the page after that shows it separate from his supposed thought, There is no such statement that states it can control it's size, that is pure assumption on your part, Jellal even stated that there is no other weapon big enough to destroy the Tower of Heaven, that would account for size. plus that would be just a memory from when they used it before, you seem to ignore that fact. Veronica is the smallest known Nation, thus is not outside the equation.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@The Calaca

So you agree with me and Anonymousblank right?

 

[The_Calaca]

So Jellal explains what Etherion is and it gets fired from the space. That's broken.

Edit: @Mitch Yes.

 

[CNBA3]

So Jellal explains what Etherion is and it gets fired from the space. That's broken.

it is not in space, that is just several KM's in the atmosphere, it was stated to be used before by the Council, so that would be the accurate portrayal of the blast

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

We should either stick with the current version or use the OBD version. From what I'm gathering the OP has issues with the size of Fiore. How big is it again? Like if we aren't talking thousands of km then I don't see any issues with the current size.

 

[The_Calaca]

That changes literally nothing.

The depiction you used for the calc never actually happened so it can't be used when there's statements saying that its AoE is much higher.

Fiore is also used as a Mid End as most other countries are larger than it.

 

[CNBA3]

That changes literally nothing.
The depiction you used for the calc never actually happened so it can't be used when there's statements saying that its AoE is much higher.

Fiore is also used as a Mid End as most other countries are larger than it.

It did happen before though, as the MC used it to ward off Alvarez the first time, there is nothing about that image to suggest it being imaginary, and throughout the entire arc clearly states it being roughly the size of the Tower of Heaven.

 

[The_Calaca]

Nothing suggests it's the shot against Álvarez either as they were created hundreds of chapters later.

 

[CNBA3]

Nothing suggests it's the shot against Álvarez either as they were created hundreds of chapters later.

Nothing suggested that it isn't either since it is a weapon of last resorts and not to be used lightly, it was used as a show of force against the Empire. Plus they did mention multiple times characters that are from the western continent which is where Alvarez is from in the beginning of the series. Plus, none of the land shown in the shot resembles Ishgar, so it is a different continent.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@CNBA3

"Nothing suggested that it isn't either"

Burden of Proof is on you

 

[The_Calaca]

Then nothing suggests it isn't imaginary either. We can go like this if you want to.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Also it's stated the Radius of the Blast can cover a country, therefore Fiore

 

[CNBA3]

I have, with the statement that it was used before to ward off Alvarez, and the continent did exist even back then, and it is stated to be a weapon not to be used lightly, so would be the time they did use it.

 

[CNBA3]

Also it's stated the Radius of the Blast can cover a country, therefore Fiore

Or countries like Veronica.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

To be clear, I heavily disagree with the stats for Fairy Tail but even I'm not gonna agree to this downgrade.

 

[CNBA3]

Then nothing suggests it isn't imaginary either. We can go like this if you want to.

All I am saying is that we do not use a large country out of pure assumption without showing when there are other pieces of information that say otherwise.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The anime, which doesn't contradict, the manga shows it as Jellal's imagination. Unless you mean to say that the MC decided to blow up one of their own cities to flex on Alvarez? Before you say it could be an Alvarez city, why on earth would they hit a random town which has no value in a war? The empire was in the middle of invading when they flexed so its not like they fired on a place the rogue enemy army couldn't see.

 

[CNBA3]

The anime tends to alter information or leave details out from the manga itself, from the sight of the land below, there is nothing to suggest it is on Ishgar. They stated it is a show of power to ward off Alvarez, whether it is valuable to the war or not, it is to tell them if they come here, they will use it to destroy them. They tried to invade, not that they were already invading, but Zeref called it off because it wasn't time and would have caused them damage.

 

[AstralKing7]

Then a compromise needs to be made

 

[AnonymousBlank]

It doesnt nmatter what the anime tends to do. It matters what it did when adapting this panel/scene which only extended the Etherion blast to give us a view from the ground. It being Jellal's imagination doesn't change.

 

[CNBA3]

What I suggest that we go with the calc and put in "Possibly Higher"

There is nothing to suggest that it is imaginary as that would be a memory from the previous use, remember he was there for a while so he knows a thing or two about the Magic Council and some certain secrets. He was even made a key to Face, another dangerous weapon they had

 

[The_Calaca]

That country is an obvios outlier when it comes to size. It's far more reasonable to use a country similar in size to all the others and not the only known case as small as a capital.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

There's also the fact that CNBA3's Calc is Large Town level...

Weaker than X784 Base Natsu

Yikes...

 

[CNBA3]

There is nothing to suggest it being an outlier when seeing how small the blast is, it would be well within reason that it would be the best reference, seeing as how Etherion was not large enough to even destroy other nations too from when the Council talked about it.

@Mitch, you are forgetting Mountain-Island level with comprehensive destruction with the crater.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Ooh 7-A to 6-C, still significantly lower than Spriggan level who have multiple higher feats

Its literally said to be able to destroy a country at least 3 times at different points in the manga, so even if this imaginary blast was real, its clearly a lowballed not full powered showing

Fiore is a small country, and we have measurements for it, so we calc Fiore's destruction as Etherion, this was decided upon by at least 2 different CRT's in the past year... so this is literally no different, the exact sane imaginary blast was brought up and it was rejected

 

[CNBA3]

If you are reffering to August and Irene, well, you have to consider that Deus Sema is likely an outlier as well because of the Meteor speed when it reaches the earth, it would make sense to use just the standard Meteor speed, and August was only going to destroy Magnolia, Mavis mentioned that.

It even was stated to be able to destroy a "Kingdom" too, which would say much as how vague the turn country is used in the verse. so using this real used blast would be applicable for a small kingdom like Veronica, that too is a small country, and there is nothing to suggest that it is imaginary since it was used before.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Mitch while I agree with you, you shouldn't be too focused on the numbers of his calc. If the calc were legit and Etherion was actually somehow tier 7 only you can't really argue since Spriggan's would have better feats that the number would need to be higher, we'd just label Etherion as an outlier.


But that's only if the calc in question was legit. It honestly might just be better to whip up a brand new Etherion calc entirely just to settle things. Obviously with a low, mid and high end.