CTR for Etherion Downgrade

[CNBA3]

well the Spriggans here are considered lower with Mountain level feats or lower, so Etherion would still be higher.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with a whole new calc tbh as well as compromises needing to be made based on how the arguments are going

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Prince of Counters

We already did that, we made a new calc and the Mid-End Fiore was accepted multiple times, this thread is really just CNBA's chance to argue against

 

[CNBA3]

that calc is based on assumptions, this is to avoid using any such assumptions, even stated in the ToH arc that it is not a large explosion as it is capable of destroying just the tower and the island it is on.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

"Your Making Assumptions"

Says the guy who is assuming the blast is not imaginary and was used against Alvarez, also you're ignoring Country Busting statements and also ignoring they can control the radius of the blast so that they don't destroy too much

The current calc is fine since it's been agreed upon by several CRT's before that Fiore is what we use for Etherion, literally the same arguments you are making were debunked back in May of 2018 and there were even more CRT's after that, point being, you're wrong... again

I think I've said all I need too, just gonna wait for more responses

 

[CNBA3]

says the gues you says the blast is imaginary without any evidence that it is, country is subjective when it comes to size, especially one statement being Kingdom busting, which would put country busting in question, where was such a statement about controlling etherion so it doesn't do much damage? they just said that it is the only thing that can destroy a large structure like the ToH. If you can prove it otherwise with statements that it is imaginary or that it can wipe Fiore off the map, then I will back down. Otherwise this is the most viable blast we have which happened.

 

[The_Calaca]

Yes, except that it didn't happened.

The only feat ever shown for Etherion is the ToH's. The one in the calc is just a depiction from someone who might not have seen Etherion in action at all.

 

[CNBA3]

It did happen though, ToH was not the only showing, the event happened but that doesn't mean it had to be Jellal's memories, they were likely from the other members, not that Jellal couldn't research Etherion to begin with to know about it's existence or have a video lacrima to see how it transpired, they clearly have visual showings of the target. Even then the event happened within the same time spans when Jellal was in the Council too

 

[The_Calaca]

Evidence being?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@CNB3

There are consistent Country Busting statements

 

[CNBA3]

Well for one thing, they have a lacrima that can broadcast a visual location that fires and can see the aftermath from the Satellite Square. Jella has been working on the council for years, as said in the anime, he was indeed around the time when the MC used Etherion 2 years prior to the events of the BOS Fairy Tail

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This would still be lowballed radius that didn't even finish expanding, you've said nothing new, the full power of Etherion can bust countries in one shot, that's why Fiore, a small country, is good for a lowball

 

[CNBA3]

That is why I said possibly higher, neither have you as I presented pieces of info that enlightens Etherion's use, and Veronica is a country, there is nothing lowballing especially with the two being of same size and effect

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Just make a calc group thread. Veronica is a good low ball, Fiore is a good mid end and the rest would likely lead into outlier territory given the varying sizes.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

No, Veronica is smaller than a city, it's clearly not a country and is definitely not what they were talking about in the magic council when referring to the countries such as Fiore and Cae-lum

Everyone has disagreed with CNBA3 and I think none of his arguments have proved anything, so no, I say we stick with Fiore, which was agreed upon by the majority many times before because Fiore is one of the smallest Countries, I'm not using Veronica since it would clearly be an outlier even if it was a country

 

[CNBA3]

nothing is stated that a country has to be large, they can be even just cities, heck, hypothetically, I could seceed my home fromthe US right now and become my own country, though the US would probably arrest me for treason probably, good thing it is hypothetically, but still my point is clear, it is defined as a distinct entity of political signifcance and geography, that is why there are countries that are cities.Yes they were, they would be concidered attacking a soveriegn nation by attacking their own soil. They made it clear that it's blast radius is big enough around the Tower. And by no means is Fiore the smallest country, there are plenty of countries smaller than that. there is nothing outlier about it as the blast radius would cover the country itself.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

All I will say in this matter is that CNBA3, if someone in the real world said they created a weapon that can wipe out a country in a single use, do you honestly believe they would be referring to Vatican City instead of the US, The UK, France, etc?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Veronica under no circumstances should be used as the country benchmark for Etherion, while most countries are far larger than it

Veronica is clearly an outlier and is deemed a nation anyways not necessarily a country, not to mention it wasn't even created yet in the story

That's like using Lebanon as the average country, therefore it should not be used at all, Fiore can be measured and calced and is agreed upon by people as a good benchmark

I'm done, there's nothing more to say

 

[CNBA3]

Veronica is labeled a country though, and despite this assuming such things as Fiore is the correct size to use it what leads to many other issues too, there is no way to define what is or isn't a country based on size of borders, they are just sovereign entities that have their own governments and politics, etc..

 

[The_Calaca]

Wait, so Verónica didn't exist at that point in history?

 

[CNBA3]

Wait, so Verónica didn't exist at that point in history?

Veronica has been around for hundreds of years

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Wait, so Verónica didn't exist at that point in history?

I meant that this was long before the movie was made, so assuming Hiro meant Veronica, which is obviously an outlier is silly

Every single country is far bigger than the city that is veronica

 

[CNBA3]

It isn't an outlier if he made maps of Ishgar or Fiore where Veronica does not show any significantly large borders around the end of the series

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

It is absolutely an Outlier

Every single country is at least 1,000 Km and even bigger

Then you have the Principality of Veronica which is just a City, clearly an outlier when compared to other countries, it shouldn't even be considered in this argument

In fact, Veronica is within Fiore

 

[CNBA3]

not true as the Vatican is a country as well, and is within Italy, there is nothing about countries having a set rule of how big it is, the UK is under 1000 kms too and it is a country, so there.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Why should we use the smallest possible country when it's so clearly smaller than everything else and is obviously an outlier

When people talk about countries in real life, they never use Vatican City as an average

You're argument makes 0 sense and would make Etherion weaker than every single character in the verse, point being you are wrong, Fiore is a good mid-end benchmark

If I had a weapon that was stated to be able to destroy a country in the real world, I wouldn't use Vatican City as an example

Once again, no one agrees with you

 

[CNBA3]

There is nothing outlier about it, and they never stated that it is a large country, mid size country or anything, just country in general or kingdom, which would be vague ot assume they meant something of the likes of Fiore, and we know that such smaller countries do exist, and we see how big the blast is, so it would make sense that it would be that size. Anonymous definitely did in his conversation, if it is Island level, it would not be the cause as everyone barring Zeref and Acnologia would be above it (until it gets downgraded that is). A Nuke would definitely be nation buster if it attacked Vatican city, or greater. your points are not helping here.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Fiore is one of the smallest countries which makes it even lower than the average of countries, Veronica is a state/nation and is way smaller than the actual countries, using Veronica would give 7-B results and that is just more evidence it's an outlier, Fiore is the best country to use since it's on every single earthland map and is the basis for all other countries

In real life basic statistics, Veronica would be an outlier, and I doubt it's even a country since there is no other country comparable in size to it, also the Kingdom statement refers to Fiore which is a Kingdom Country, its literally just a city within fiore which is a principality which is also described as just a state

Why would we use Veronica at all

 

[Zackra1799]

@CNBA3

Unless it is specifically stated to be only able to destroy small countries such as Veronica then we should use the average size of the verses countries because anything other than that would be needless downplay.

 

[Planck69]

OK, we're approaching levels of denial I didn't think were possible. Not much of an expert on Fairy Tale but why, just why would the council be reffering to the smallest nation when making the claim that Etherion could destroy countries much less one that was barely relevant at the time. We don't assume a character is talking about destroying Pluto when a claim is made of destroying a planet and that's the same issue here.

Would you really think of Seychelles when a statement of destroying a country is made? No. But you want us to somehow assume that the council was't reffering to the country that acts as the setting of the story but some tiny state out of left-field. I won't even bring up how characters would scale above Etherion or how the weapon made to destroy countries would be unable to destroy some of the more average ones.

 

[The_Calaca]

I'll close this as soon as people tell me to do so as nobody is agreeing with the OPso far.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

You can probably close it now, nothing new is being said, Etherion Calc stays the same, nobody agrees with OP and other arguments, now we can safely put this to bed for an entire year hopefully, all that's left is Deus Sema and Speed Revisions

 

[CNBA3]

@CNBA3
Unless it is specifically stated to be only able to destroy small countries such as Veronica then we should use the average size of the verses countries because anything other than that would be needless downplay.

but that is the thing, what makes you so sure they are referring to nations like Fiore?

 

[Zackra1799]

Because Mashima couldn't have been refering to Veronica because by the time that chapter came out the movie wasn't even in production yet

 

[Planck69]

but that is the thing, what makes you so sure they are referring to nations like Fiore?

Refer to my Pluto and Seychelles examples. This is Occam's Razor, plain and simple.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Cause Veronica is a city, which isn't mentioned on the Fairy Tail Map cause it's not a Country, while Fiore which is small compared to the rest of Ishgar and is still a country

Taking an average small country like Fiore makes far more sense than a tiny city like Veronica which is smaller than Magnolia

 

[CNBA3]

OK, we're approaching levels of denial I didn't think were possible. Not much of an expert on Fairy Tale but why, just why would the council be reffering to the smallest nation when making the claim that Etherion could destroy countries much less one that was barely relevant at the time. We don't assume a character is talking about destroying Pluto when a claim is made of destroying a planet and that's the same issue here.
Would you really think of Seychelles when a statement of destroying a country is made? No. But you want us to somehow assume that the council was't reffering to the country that acts as the setting of the story but some tiny state out of left-field. I won't even bring up how characters would scale above Etherion or how the weapon made to destroy countries would be unable to destroy some of the more average ones.

They made a reference that they would be attacking Cael-Um soil when attacking the Tower of Heaven, they made no reference that it would destroy the entire nation, and that is much larger than Fiore, they explicitly stated that Etherion is the only thing that can destroy a structure of such size. Planet's are not all made equal, besides Pluto is not a planet for a long time. I am not sure what you mean for the second part, but it is much more reasonable, with both statements in the manga, details depictions and the cacl to show would make it much more feasable to use than assuming something that we don't know is possible.

not saying that it isn't, it is just so small that it's borders are insignificant on a map, like with the Vatican, but that in no way excuses that of being a country. Fiore is a medium size nation in comparison to the continent.

 

[Zackra1799]

Anyways this Thread is starting to become pointless and redundent, I say we close it.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I answered that in the very first post. Occam's razor. Back when those statements were made, Veronica had never been introduced and the only countries that had were mentioned or shown are the size of Fiore. So please tell us why? Why on on earth would we use a countr- apolgies city that is smaller than the home town of the main characters?

 

[CNBA3]

Because Mashima couldn't have been refering to Veronica because by the time that chapter came out the movie wasn't even in production yet

I am not referring to when Mashima made the movie, I am refering to the consistancy of the story between then and there