-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Comprehensive DC Comics Revision: Clearing up everything Monitor-related
- Thread starter PrinceOfTheMorning
- Start date
- Status
- 839
- 471
- Thread starter
- #84
@Matt
Perpetua profile is up. A lot will need to be added in the future though, as more of her seven hidden powers are revealed. I'm working on the Monitor race, Rox Ogama, and Nix Uotan as well, plus revamping Anti-Monitor's profile since a lot is missing.
@Elizio
Mandrakk just said Barbatos could only chain him, not destroy him. That might just be his immortality at work, even while he was extremely weakened.
Perpetua profile is up. A lot will need to be added in the future though, as more of her seven hidden powers are revealed. I'm working on the Monitor race, Rox Ogama, and Nix Uotan as well, plus revamping Anti-Monitor's profile since a lot is missing.
@Elizio
Mandrakk just said Barbatos could only chain him, not destroy him. That might just be his immortality at work, even while he was extremely weakened.
- 32,359
- 20,298
@POTM
Good, that is nice to hear.
Still, what about Dream and the rest of the Endless? I got the sense that he is above the Monitors from how he acted in Batman Metal. Plus, there's the whole thing with the Dark Multiverse which people discuss a lot.
I also hear that Superman "shattered The World Forger's Masterpiece", aka his new multiverse, after punching him when sundipped. What's your opinion on that whole debacle. Seems to be the most controversial event in this whole storyline.
I also find the Raptor sent by The Source (Who itself is the literal Source of the Super Celestials' powers) pretty interesting, because there are several cases throughout DC Comics History where its made very clear that The Source and God / The Presence are the same thing (Look no further than the 1990s Spectre run, where the character passes through the Source Wall and reaches The Source, and immediately identifies it as God. Zeus and Darkseid also equate The Source with Spectre's God.
Truly, it seems that while The Presence is the conscious aspect, The Source is the unconscious aspect.
This would mean that Lucifer and Michael are hilariously high into the 1-A scale, as they would undoubtedly be far above the Raptor who imprisoned Perpetua.
Good, that is nice to hear.
Still, what about Dream and the rest of the Endless? I got the sense that he is above the Monitors from how he acted in Batman Metal. Plus, there's the whole thing with the Dark Multiverse which people discuss a lot.
I also hear that Superman "shattered The World Forger's Masterpiece", aka his new multiverse, after punching him when sundipped. What's your opinion on that whole debacle. Seems to be the most controversial event in this whole storyline.
I also find the Raptor sent by The Source (Who itself is the literal Source of the Super Celestials' powers) pretty interesting, because there are several cases throughout DC Comics History where its made very clear that The Source and God / The Presence are the same thing (Look no further than the 1990s Spectre run, where the character passes through the Source Wall and reaches The Source, and immediately identifies it as God. Zeus and Darkseid also equate The Source with Spectre's God.
Truly, it seems that while The Presence is the conscious aspect, The Source is the unconscious aspect.
This would mean that Lucifer and Michael are hilariously high into the 1-A scale, as they would undoubtedly be far above the Raptor who imprisoned Perpetua.
- 839
- 471
- Thread starter
- #86
I don't doubt that Dream/Death/Destiny are above the Monitors. I think Sandman wanted to revise them. I think it's likely all the Endless are tbh.
It remains to be seen whether Superman's still at that level of power, but the feat itself is legit imo. I really enjoyed it, for the storytelling rather than feats. It was pure Superman.
Yeah, they need to be condensed. There was also the time in Day of Judgment when Mr. Miracle was at the gates of Heaven and felt the Source behind them.
At my LCS it's a popular theory that it was Lucifer and Michael who redid Creation after Perpetua was imprisoned. Would be very cool to have that confirmed at some point.
It remains to be seen whether Superman's still at that level of power, but the feat itself is legit imo. I really enjoyed it, for the storytelling rather than feats. It was pure Superman.
Yeah, they need to be condensed. There was also the time in Day of Judgment when Mr. Miracle was at the gates of Heaven and felt the Source behind them.
At my LCS it's a popular theory that it was Lucifer and Michael who redid Creation after Perpetua was imprisoned. Would be very cool to have that confirmed at some point.
- 491
- 120
Anything you could add to Perpetua's profile from here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Catalyst75/Perpetua_Profile_DraftPrinceOfTheMorning said:
I had been working on this until a time where she was given an official profile.
- 32,359
- 20,298
The Source / The Presence could have their profiles merged I suppose? Though I feel they are different enough that they can have separate profiles.
Another good evidence of 1-A is when Superman enters the Source Wall in an issue of Superman/Batman and it is stated that space, distance and direction don't apply anymore.
Another good evidence of 1-A is when Superman enters the Source Wall in an issue of Superman/Batman and it is stated that space, distance and direction don't apply anymore.
- 839
- 471
- Thread starter
- #89
@Matt
Sandman and I were discussing the possibility of having multiple keys on one profile for each notable aspect of DC's God. Since Morrison heavily implied that Monitor-Mind and the Source are two aspects of the same being, and we know for certain that the Source and the Presence are two aspects of the same being. I could make a mockup in the near future to see whether that would be too cluttered or not?
Yeah, I remember that story now that you mention it. I think it deserves to be mentioned.
@Catalyst
I forgot to add a couple things that you have in that blog, thanks. Need to unlock the profile though.
Sandman and I were discussing the possibility of having multiple keys on one profile for each notable aspect of DC's God. Since Morrison heavily implied that Monitor-Mind and the Source are two aspects of the same being, and we know for certain that the Source and the Presence are two aspects of the same being. I could make a mockup in the near future to see whether that would be too cluttered or not?
Yeah, I remember that story now that you mention it. I think it deserves to be mentioned.
@Catalyst
I forgot to add a couple things that you have in that blog, thanks. Need to unlock the profile though.
- 8,381
- 1,750
Wait.... how high into 1-A is Perpetua then ? I thought she was just merely somewhat above baseline ?
- 32,359
- 20,298
@POTM
That is a possibility but it could be supremely cluttered. I agree that The Source and The Presence are major aspects of the Mind that is The Overvoid. I wouldn't be surprised if the creation of The Presence is the whole Omniverse which The Source encompasses and permeates, and all of it contained within The Overvoid itself.
Morrison himself also described The Presence in an impersonal, all-encompassing manner akin to how The Source usually is.
That is a possibility but it could be supremely cluttered. I agree that The Source and The Presence are major aspects of the Mind that is The Overvoid. I wouldn't be surprised if the creation of The Presence is the whole Omniverse which The Source encompasses and permeates, and all of it contained within The Overvoid itself.
Morrison himself also described The Presence in an impersonal, all-encompassing manner akin to how The Source usually is.
- 32,359
- 20,298
- 1,969
- 323
How far into 1-A are Petpetua, Mandrakk, Thought Robot, etc.?
- 32,359
- 20,298
The Monitor Race is baseline.
Monitor Race itself is a mainly just fragment of the original Monitor, Mar Novu. Though there aren't that many monitors.
Anyway, The Monitor, Anti-Monitor and The World Forger are way above baseline but unquantifiably so, and Perpetua is far above them herself.
Not sure where Mandrakk and Thought Robot fit but if I had to guess about the same level as the other Monitor characters.
The Raptor who defeated and imprisoned Perpetua is far above her, and both Michael and Lucifer should scale above it as they are The Presence's most powerful creations.
And The Presence is far above either of them to the point where the gap seems infinite.
Overall DC has become one of the most formidably powerful 1-A Verses.
Monitor Race itself is a mainly just fragment of the original Monitor, Mar Novu. Though there aren't that many monitors.
Anyway, The Monitor, Anti-Monitor and The World Forger are way above baseline but unquantifiably so, and Perpetua is far above them herself.
Not sure where Mandrakk and Thought Robot fit but if I had to guess about the same level as the other Monitor characters.
The Raptor who defeated and imprisoned Perpetua is far above her, and both Michael and Lucifer should scale above it as they are The Presence's most powerful creations.
And The Presence is far above either of them to the point where the gap seems infinite.
Overall DC has become one of the most formidably powerful 1-A Verses.
- 2,153
- 307
Will that make Umineko and Cthulhu Muthos sweat?
- 19,530
- 3,924
Looking at it... no.Diinou HotHead said:
- 32,359
- 20,298
I don't care tbh
- 2,153
- 307
Just asking. But eh, that's a lot of 1As in this verse after this revision.
- 19,530
- 3,924
Though Matt has a point, people are often way too focused on what level the 1-A ranks.
- 32,359
- 20,298
This. It's pretty dumb to just try to measure 1-As against each other from other verses.PsychoWarper said:
- 6,198
- 16,506
1-A Verse: *Exists*PsychoWarper said:
everyone: bUt hOW dOsEh eET coMpuRh tO uMiMeMku?
- 19,174
- 6,463
1-A fights:
- 12,828
- 3,995
Thanks Celestial, was looking for that image for a while.
Oh, also, beautiful work here POTM. These analysis are the ones that give me hope for the future comics profiles.
Oh, also, beautiful work here POTM. These analysis are the ones that give me hope for the future comics profiles.
- 2,153
- 307
Well, 1As are only good for Spite/Meme/Joke matches anyway.
- 32,359
- 20,298
fail
- 167,862
- 76,484
Are you certain? I thought that we agreed to strictly scale him from shattering the small future version multiverse (mirroring the current 52 universes), rather than from the World Forger.Matthew Schroeder said:
@Ultima
Please avoid using mocking language toward other members. It is inappropriate for an administrator. Thank you.
- 6,198
- 16,506
@Ant
It was intended as a joke but, okay. Noted.
It was intended as a joke but, okay. Noted.
- 839
- 471
- Thread starter
- #112
I think the only one that needs to be locked is Barbatos. Elizhaa helped with locking the rest earlier.
- 7,550
- 7,738
In regards to Superman and the Source Wall in the Superman/Batman Comics, Superman did not cross the Source Wall to my knowledge. Do you have a screenshot perhaps?
- 7,550
- 7,738
Also, didn't the Source Wall break in the Genesis Storyline?
- 8,381
- 1,750
Bump. About The Endless:
Would their 1B key be changed to just 1A if accepted as we currently scale them at least above the Monitors ? Also is Death's powers are limited to not killing someone until their fated time ? Because of not then I believe there is another who may scale to these changes..
Would their 1B key be changed to just 1A if accepted as we currently scale them at least above the Monitors ? Also is Death's powers are limited to not killing someone until their fated time ? Because of not then I believe there is another who may scale to these changes..
- 7,550
- 7,738
@TheGuest47
From the looks of it, Highfather's Staff got Superman through the wall both times.
From the looks of it, Highfather's Staff got Superman through the wall both times.
- 10
- 3
Debatable, considering that that he still had to travel an infinite distance .Firestorm808 said:
- 7,550
- 7,738
Infinite distance?
- Status
