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Cardfight speed downgrade
- Thread starter Quangotjokes
- Start date
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"They didn't prepare beforehand"
Irrelevant, like I've said over and over, they had ample time to prepare during the flight.
"They cut through the air and caused an explosion while landing, so they were still going fast when landing"
That doesn't prove they were at MFTL+ flight speeds while landing. Only that they were at speeds fast enough to do that, which is possible with far lower speeds.
"Takuto stopped himself midair at the end of this flight feat"
I watched from the timeframe linked for another 3 minutes and couldn't see anything like that. Could you be more specific?
"The location they landed on was covered by clouds, so they couldn't have seen it until after they passed through the cloud layer"
They weren't shown to readjust/dart around after passing through the cloud layer. You're saying that because of this they must have readjusted, but they clearly didn't.
None of these seem like good reasons to scale to reaction speed.
Irrelevant, like I've said over and over, they had ample time to prepare during the flight.
"They cut through the air and caused an explosion while landing, so they were still going fast when landing"
That doesn't prove they were at MFTL+ flight speeds while landing. Only that they were at speeds fast enough to do that, which is possible with far lower speeds.
"Takuto stopped himself midair at the end of this flight feat"
I watched from the timeframe linked for another 3 minutes and couldn't see anything like that. Could you be more specific?
"The location they landed on was covered by clouds, so they couldn't have seen it until after they passed through the cloud layer"
They weren't shown to readjust/dart around after passing through the cloud layer. You're saying that because of this they must have readjusted, but they clearly didn't.
None of these seem like good reasons to scale to reaction speed.
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Which is an assumption you can’t prove. It’s not shown beforehand, there is no reason to assume so during the feat.
You also can’t prepare for something you can’t see beforehand either.
Again, another unproven assumption. There’s no reason to assume any faltering in speed when the given details shown indicate high speeds were still in use.
Did you not see him floating in mid air above the ground? Above lava?
I didn’t say anything about readjusting.
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Which is an assumption you can’t prove. It’s not shown beforehand, there is no reason to assume so during the feat.
Like we discussed in the innumerable threads about it, the burden of proof is on you to show that they didn't react until the last second.
We assume the low-end until there's proof for the high-end, or proof that the low-end didn't occur.
You also can’t prepare for something you can’t see beforehand either.
Like we discussed in the innumerable threads about it, they couldn't have traveled there in the first place if they couldn't see it beforehand. They would have shot off into a random direction in the sky and gotten lost forever.
Again, another unproven assumption. There’s no reason to assume any faltering in speed when the given details shown indicate high speeds were still in use.
"Indicating high speeds" doesn't mean "Indicating speeds that would travel across the observable universe in 3 seconds". You have not demonstrated the latter.
Did you not see him floating in mid air above the ground? Above lava?
Oh that thing? That seems really arguable since it cut away and transitioned there, we didn't actually see Takuto halt himself mid-air. Just saw him start flying, and then panning to him after he'd stopped.
But even if he did stop mid-air, like was discussed in the other threads about this, characters stopping immediately does not mean that they scale to the entire flight speed.
I didn’t say anything about readjusting.
So you're saying that they didn't see where to land, and didn't have to adjust to land there, but still landed there anyway.
In that case, it just sounds like dumb luck, and not something that would scale to the flight speed. They didn't react or adjust to land there, they just happened to land there.
You've said "disregarding the other threads made", but it sounds like you're just ignoring the conclusions arrived at in those threads...
Like we discussed in the innumerable threads about it, the burden of proof is on you to show that they didn't react until the last second.
We assume the low-end until there's proof for the high-end, or proof that the low-end didn't occur.
You also can’t prepare for something you can’t see beforehand either.
Like we discussed in the innumerable threads about it, they couldn't have traveled there in the first place if they couldn't see it beforehand. They would have shot off into a random direction in the sky and gotten lost forever.
Again, another unproven assumption. There’s no reason to assume any faltering in speed when the given details shown indicate high speeds were still in use.
"Indicating high speeds" doesn't mean "Indicating speeds that would travel across the observable universe in 3 seconds". You have not demonstrated the latter.
Did you not see him floating in mid air above the ground? Above lava?
Oh that thing? That seems really arguable since it cut away and transitioned there, we didn't actually see Takuto halt himself mid-air. Just saw him start flying, and then panning to him after he'd stopped.
But even if he did stop mid-air, like was discussed in the other threads about this, characters stopping immediately does not mean that they scale to the entire flight speed.
I didn’t say anything about readjusting.
So you're saying that they didn't see where to land, and didn't have to adjust to land there, but still landed there anyway.
In that case, it just sounds like dumb luck, and not something that would scale to the flight speed. They didn't react or adjust to land there, they just happened to land there.
You've said "disregarding the other threads made", but it sounds like you're just ignoring the conclusions arrived at in those threads...
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Thats not an answer to this. Not reacting until the last second =/= there was preparation done in the middle of the flight.
A random direction in the sky is....kind of shown here.
And, no, they wouldn't need to see it beforehand when simply knowing the general vicinity or positioning would suffice for this already. And seeing something from another universe away kinda isn't an option anyway.
The feat is literally traveling across the universes in 3 seconds. What?
I don't see what's arguable about this. His soul physically starts traveling at the start of the feat, so we know his soul is physically moving. If there's physical movement involved in any way, at the conclusion of the movement, stopping yourself would be required at some point.
And he's in mid air by the end of the travel.
Cool. That wasn't the point in mentioning this. The point was that stopping himself proves he can control his own flight movement.
How about you don't continue to put words in my mouth and read what was actually said? I didnt say they didn't see where to land, I said they wouldn't see until after passing through what's blocking them from seeing the location. The cloud layer.
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Thats not an answer to this. Not reacting until the last second =/= there was preparation done in the middle of the flight.
This is really hard to parse because of the double negative.
"Not reacting until the last second is not equivalent to preparing during the middle of the fight"
Of course, preparing during the fight would mean you're reacting before the last second.
A random direction in the sky is....kind of shown here.
And, no, they wouldn't need to see it beforehand when simply knowing the general vicinity or positioning would suffice for this already. And seeing something from another universe away kinda isn't an option anyway.
If you know its general vicinity/positioning enough to be accurate when flying to a place an observable universe distance away, that sounds like enough knowledge to be able to prepare for it.
The feat is literally traveling across the universes in 3 seconds. What?
"Your speed parted clouds" and "You created a small explosion" do not correspond to speeds of traveling across the universe in 3 seconds, is what I mean.
Slowing down to a more manageable speed before landing would still be consistent with that.
I don't see what's arguable about this. His soul physically starts traveling at the start of the feat, so we know his soul is physically moving. If there's physical movement involved in any way, at the conclusion of the movement, stopping yourself would be required at some point.
And he's in mid air by the end of the travel.
Stopping would be required at some point, but you seemed to be using that to argue that he stopped instantly, rather than gradually slowing down.
Cool. That wasn't the point in mentioning this. The point was that stopping himself proves he can control his own flight movement.
No shit someone that can fly and stop flying can control their own flight movement. Seems pretty pointless to bring up imo, that would apply to almost all characters that fly in fiction.
How about you don't continue to put words in my mouth and read what was actually said? I didnt say they didn't see where to land, I said they wouldn't see until after passing through what's blocking them from seeing the location. The cloud layer.
You're saying that they didn't see where to land until passing through the cloud layer, and that they didn't adjust after passing through the cloud layer but still landed there anyway.
My point there still holds with these slight substitutions in wording.
This is really hard to parse because of the double negative.
"Not reacting until the last second is not equivalent to preparing during the middle of the fight"
Of course, preparing during the fight would mean you're reacting before the last second.
A random direction in the sky is....kind of shown here.
And, no, they wouldn't need to see it beforehand when simply knowing the general vicinity or positioning would suffice for this already. And seeing something from another universe away kinda isn't an option anyway.
If you know its general vicinity/positioning enough to be accurate when flying to a place an observable universe distance away, that sounds like enough knowledge to be able to prepare for it.
The feat is literally traveling across the universes in 3 seconds. What?
"Your speed parted clouds" and "You created a small explosion" do not correspond to speeds of traveling across the universe in 3 seconds, is what I mean.
Slowing down to a more manageable speed before landing would still be consistent with that.
I don't see what's arguable about this. His soul physically starts traveling at the start of the feat, so we know his soul is physically moving. If there's physical movement involved in any way, at the conclusion of the movement, stopping yourself would be required at some point.
And he's in mid air by the end of the travel.
Stopping would be required at some point, but you seemed to be using that to argue that he stopped instantly, rather than gradually slowing down.
Cool. That wasn't the point in mentioning this. The point was that stopping himself proves he can control his own flight movement.
No shit someone that can fly and stop flying can control their own flight movement. Seems pretty pointless to bring up imo, that would apply to almost all characters that fly in fiction.
How about you don't continue to put words in my mouth and read what was actually said? I didnt say they didn't see where to land, I said they wouldn't see until after passing through what's blocking them from seeing the location. The cloud layer.
You're saying that they didn't see where to land until passing through the cloud layer, and that they didn't adjust after passing through the cloud layer but still landed there anyway.
My point there still holds with these slight substitutions in wording.
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Uh, am I misinterpreting your definition of "preparation" here? What do you mean by this? Reacting or Preparing?
Not for reacting to the location you want to go to. Even more for one that couldn't be seen until nearly the last moment.
This doesn't make much sense to suggest and seems like an oddly super specific assumption to make. The character (will address this below) has shown to be able to halt himself and control his own movement. Why would we assume that if he were to slow down to a more "manageable speed", this manageable speed would be high speeds that did effects such as those? You know, instead of just halting outright?
This assumption also conflicts with what the occams razor gives with these details. The first thing you would assume when seeing high speed still taking place would be that there wasn't any change with the speed happening.
I didn't say instantly earlier, this was more supposed to entail the point that he can halt himself and control his movement freely. That being said, given that in the other flight feat there's still high speeds happening up until the end of the feat, it makes it less likely that he wouldn't be able to stop himself either instantly or very immediately. Otherwise, that wouldn't have been depicted.
Coolio. So this should coincide with the earlier point of successful landing I gave.
Why do you keep bringing "Adjust" back into this?
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Uh, am I misinterpreting your definition of "preparation" here? What do you mean by this? Reacting or Preparing?
In the middle of the flight going "Hmm, I should stop in 3, 2, 1..." and then stopping. Instead of mindlessly flying and only stopping the instant before the planet smacks you in the face.
Not for reacting to the location you want to go to. Even more for one that couldn't be seen until nearly the last moment.
But they were shown not reacting to the specific location on the planet since they didn't have to adjust to correctly reach it, and according to you, they couldn't have seen it early to adjust early.
This doesn't make much sense to suggest and seems like an oddly super specific assumption to make. The character (will address this below) has shown to be able to halt himself and control his own movement. Why would we assume that if he were to slow down to a more "manageable speed", this manageable speed would be high speeds that did effects such as those? You know, instead of just halting outright?
Because they still want to travel to their destination instead of repeatedly stopping and starting abruptly?
This assumption also conflicts with what the occams razor gives with these details. The first thing you would assume when seeing high speed still taking place would be that there wasn't any change with the speed happening.
I don't think occam's razor tells us that. I think it tells us that they were going as fast as they were shown to be going.
Why do you keep bringing "Adjust" back into this?
Because reaction speed is about adjusting your movement in response to sudden obstacles.
In the middle of the flight going "Hmm, I should stop in 3, 2, 1..." and then stopping. Instead of mindlessly flying and only stopping the instant before the planet smacks you in the face.
Not for reacting to the location you want to go to. Even more for one that couldn't be seen until nearly the last moment.
But they were shown not reacting to the specific location on the planet since they didn't have to adjust to correctly reach it, and according to you, they couldn't have seen it early to adjust early.
This doesn't make much sense to suggest and seems like an oddly super specific assumption to make. The character (will address this below) has shown to be able to halt himself and control his own movement. Why would we assume that if he were to slow down to a more "manageable speed", this manageable speed would be high speeds that did effects such as those? You know, instead of just halting outright?
Because they still want to travel to their destination instead of repeatedly stopping and starting abruptly?
This assumption also conflicts with what the occams razor gives with these details. The first thing you would assume when seeing high speed still taking place would be that there wasn't any change with the speed happening.
I don't think occam's razor tells us that. I think it tells us that they were going as fast as they were shown to be going.
Why do you keep bringing "Adjust" back into this?
Because reaction speed is about adjusting your movement in response to sudden obstacles.
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Oh. I thought you meant something else by this.
Thinking "3, 2, 1, now stop" wouldn't make much sense to do until you actually start seeing the place you want to stop at.
Not adjusting early and not adjusting at all the entire time are 2 different things. Having said that, im not fully understanding the point for adjusting here. If a character adjusts in response to something, wouldn't it be impossible to react at the speed you're traveling at in the first place? This Im a little confused by this.
I want to wait to respond to the other stuff before I get clarification on this.
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Oh. I thought you meant something else by this.
Thinking "3, 2, 1, now stop" wouldn't make much sense to do until you actually start seeing the place you want to stop at.
You'd need to know where the place is, yeah, but if the place you're stopping at is a destination you intended to reach from the start, you'd know roughly where it is when leaving.
This wouldn't apply to situations where a character, say, randomly travels off in one direction in search of a planet meeting certain criteria, and lands on it once they spot it.
Not adjusting early and not adjusting at all the entire time are 2 different things. Having said that, im not fully understanding the point for adjusting here. If a character adjusts in response to something, wouldn't it be impossible to react at the speed you're traveling at in the first place? This Im a little confused by this.
I want to wait to respond to the other stuff before I get clarification on this.
Since reaction speed is measured based on taking our speed ratings, and using a distance of 1 meter to get a timeframe, a character would need to adjust in response to something 1 meter away to react at the speed they're traveling at. If the obstacle is at a distance of less than 1 meter, they could get a faster speed.
Also, if the obstacle is moving towards you, that contributes to your reaction speed.
Thinking "3, 2, 1, now stop" wouldn't make much sense to do until you actually start seeing the place you want to stop at.
You'd need to know where the place is, yeah, but if the place you're stopping at is a destination you intended to reach from the start, you'd know roughly where it is when leaving.
This wouldn't apply to situations where a character, say, randomly travels off in one direction in search of a planet meeting certain criteria, and lands on it once they spot it.
Not adjusting early and not adjusting at all the entire time are 2 different things. Having said that, im not fully understanding the point for adjusting here. If a character adjusts in response to something, wouldn't it be impossible to react at the speed you're traveling at in the first place? This Im a little confused by this.
I want to wait to respond to the other stuff before I get clarification on this.
Since reaction speed is measured based on taking our speed ratings, and using a distance of 1 meter to get a timeframe, a character would need to adjust in response to something 1 meter away to react at the speed they're traveling at. If the obstacle is at a distance of less than 1 meter, they could get a faster speed.
Also, if the obstacle is moving towards you, that contributes to your reaction speed.
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Okay but my issue is, how does this tie into specific locations to land on? It's one thing if you know the general vicinity or position of a whole planet, but then what about a specific place on the planet?
Okay so if im understanding this correctly right now, if you slow or alter your speed when within 1 meter of whatever place your traveling to or landing, that means your reacting at the same speed you're traveling?
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Okay but my issue is, how does this tie into specific locations to land on? It's one thing if you know the general vicinity or position of a whole planet, but then what about a specific place on the planet?
If the character had to search across the planet to find a specific place, then sure. But if their path was shown to be completely direct and they happened to land in the perfect position anyway, that shows that they didn't need to react.
Okay so if im understanding this correctly right now, if you slow or alter your speed when within 1 meter of whatever place your traveling to or landing, that means your reacting at the same speed you're traveling?
No, the obstacle would have to be noticed by you (or change in nature such that it suddenly has to be avoided differently) within 1 meter to fully scale.
If the character had to search across the planet to find a specific place, then sure. But if their path was shown to be completely direct and they happened to land in the perfect position anyway, that shows that they didn't need to react.
Okay so if im understanding this correctly right now, if you slow or alter your speed when within 1 meter of whatever place your traveling to or landing, that means your reacting at the same speed you're traveling?
No, the obstacle would have to be noticed by you (or change in nature such that it suddenly has to be avoided differently) within 1 meter to fully scale.
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Completely direct as in...they'd know where that location is from the get-go or?
So if you notice the location within 1 meter, and then change your speed within that same 1 meter, that would allow full scaling?
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Completely direct as in...they'd know where that location is from the get-go or?
A trajectory that didn't seem to change mid-flight. A straight or smoothly curved line from the get-go, where we don't see any discontinuities in their path.
So if you notice the location within 1 meter, and then change your speed within that same 1 meter, that would allow full scaling?
I'm not sure exactly what's meant by "changing your speed within that same 1 meter". If you were to suddenly stop, dart perpendicular to the object, go directly backwards, or brace for impact, all of that would count. As long as you take a meaningful action (I don't think noticing and then being unable to dodge should scale to reactions, and I don't think we officially have a separate perception speed rating).
And, to be super clear, the timeframe would start ticking from when they notice, not from when they start acting.
A trajectory that didn't seem to change mid-flight. A straight or smoothly curved line from the get-go, where we don't see any discontinuities in their path.
So if you notice the location within 1 meter, and then change your speed within that same 1 meter, that would allow full scaling?
I'm not sure exactly what's meant by "changing your speed within that same 1 meter". If you were to suddenly stop, dart perpendicular to the object, go directly backwards, or brace for impact, all of that would count. As long as you take a meaningful action (I don't think noticing and then being unable to dodge should scale to reactions, and I don't think we officially have a separate perception speed rating).
And, to be super clear, the timeframe would start ticking from when they notice, not from when they start acting.
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Okay then. I will address this in a moment, but first the bottom.
Im just trying to understand the point behind adjusting your speed here for this to get full scaling, which was why I asked if changing speed within 1 meter of the location/obstacle would result in that.
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Im just trying to understand the point behind adjusting your speed here for this to get full scaling, which was why I asked if changing speed within 1 meter of the location/obstacle would result in that.
Adjusting speed's brought up because it's an easier argument to understand, since slowing down just before you reach your destination is something that everyone has personal experience with. While it couldn't single-handedly turn most flight speed feats to human level/Unknown reaction speeds, it can heavily nerf them.
Adjusting speed's brought up because it's an easier argument to understand, since slowing down just before you reach your destination is something that everyone has personal experience with. While it couldn't single-handedly turn most flight speed feats to human level/Unknown reaction speeds, it can heavily nerf them.
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Okay, but if you slow down within 1 meter distance or a distance very close to 1 meter, wouldn't it still give you good reactions? Even if not the 100% value of the flight speed?
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No, because reaction time is how long it takes for you to react after perceiving something. Not how long that action itself takes to complete.
As an example, in real-life humans, there's a common way to measure reaction speed. You're shown a screen of one colour which randomly changes to be a different colour, and you have to click or press a key on the keyboard as fast as you can after the colour changes. Your reaction speed is measured as the time it takes from the colour changing, to your mouse being clicked or the key being pressed. It is NOT measured as the time between your finger starting to move, and the mouse being clicked or the key being pressed.
I believe Bambu clarified this in another thread, although I can't currently find the post. If someone sees a rock from 100m away, and is traveling at it at 100 m/s, and decides to stop 1cm away, that's not treated as High Hypersonic reactions.
EDIT: I just looked into this last claim, Bambu didn't say that, Wokistan did.
As an example, in real-life humans, there's a common way to measure reaction speed. You're shown a screen of one colour which randomly changes to be a different colour, and you have to click or press a key on the keyboard as fast as you can after the colour changes. Your reaction speed is measured as the time it takes from the colour changing, to your mouse being clicked or the key being pressed. It is NOT measured as the time between your finger starting to move, and the mouse being clicked or the key being pressed.
I believe Bambu clarified this in another thread, although I can't currently find the post. If someone sees a rock from 100m away, and is traveling at it at 100 m/s, and decides to stop 1cm away, that's not treated as High Hypersonic reactions.
EDIT: I just looked into this last claim, Bambu didn't say that, Wokistan did.
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Alright so to make this easier, if the level of travel speed is MFTL+, when would the character need to slow or alter their speed in order for the reactions to scale to the same extent of MFTL+ or close to it?
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It's not about when their speed changes, it's about when they perceive the obstacle.
1m away would fully scale. 10m away would scale to 10% of the flight speed. 100m away would scale to 1% of the flight speed. 1km away would scale to 0.1% of the flight speed, and so on.
1m away would fully scale. 10m away would scale to 10% of the flight speed. 100m away would scale to 1% of the flight speed. 1km away would scale to 0.1% of the flight speed, and so on.
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Alright. So if the character notices the location within 1 meter, and then changes their speed, that gives full scaling?
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Noticing within 1 meter and then taking any meaningful action with that new information. Be it changing their speed, activating an ability, bracing themselves, changing the direction they're flying in, etc.
Noticing within less than 1 meter amplifies the speed, they scale to 10x the amount if they noticed within 10cm, 100x within 1cm, etc.
Noticing within less than 1 meter amplifies the speed, they scale to 10x the amount if they noticed within 10cm, 100x within 1cm, etc.
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I wasn't implying lowering speed was the only acceptable action, but asking if it was an acceptable action for full scaling like those other actions.
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Anyway, getting back to the case of this feat, I did say I wanted to address the trajectory point earlier real quick.
Now since this travel feat is one that goes across universes, it already sets a precedent that the flight here isn’t straight all the way through from the get go. But to give more direct proof, after recently noticing, the clip of the feat shows the trajectory would change.
When approaching Cray, we see they are traveling towards a part of the planet that doesn’t even have land. But the ocean.
And of course, in the area they landed in, theres land instead of the ocean, covered by clouds.
Now since this travel feat is one that goes across universes, it already sets a precedent that the flight here isn’t straight all the way through from the get go. But to give more direct proof, after recently noticing, the clip of the feat shows the trajectory would change.
When approaching Cray, we see they are traveling towards a part of the planet that doesn’t even have land. But the ocean.
And of course, in the area they landed in, theres land instead of the ocean, covered by clouds.
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Ehh, I guess. idk whether to consider that something meant to be represented or an animation mistake, considering the scenes before and after showing it going straight through. I don't really have a view on whether to accept it or not, I'll wait for more input.
But if we do accept that, we'd still have to account for slowdown and the distance.
For distance I think we can be pretty generous, they seemed to be near-ish the surface before they darted around and found a place to land, so maybe somewhere in the high atmosphere, around cloud level, could be used.
To clarify if this evaluation gets used for anything else, I say that not for the initial approach, but for them flying across the planet to find a suitable location, and then shooting down there from the sky.
To account for the slowdown, I'd say try to pixel-scale the speed visually seen in that scene, but idk how enthusiastic you'd be about that.
EDIT: Thinking about it, if you account for the slowdown I doubt it'd get even normal human reaction speeds. Since I'm pretty sure that scene took more than 0.2 seconds, which is the requirement for normal human reactions. This is probably only useful if you don't assume slowdown.
But if we do accept that, we'd still have to account for slowdown and the distance.
For distance I think we can be pretty generous, they seemed to be near-ish the surface before they darted around and found a place to land, so maybe somewhere in the high atmosphere, around cloud level, could be used.
To clarify if this evaluation gets used for anything else, I say that not for the initial approach, but for them flying across the planet to find a suitable location, and then shooting down there from the sky.
To account for the slowdown, I'd say try to pixel-scale the speed visually seen in that scene, but idk how enthusiastic you'd be about that.
EDIT: Thinking about it, if you account for the slowdown I doubt it'd get even normal human reaction speeds. Since I'm pretty sure that scene took more than 0.2 seconds, which is the requirement for normal human reactions. This is probably only useful if you don't assume slowdown.
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For the distance, I already did a quick calc out of curiosity by dividing cloud level distance from the travel speed of the feat, the distance IIRC being like 2 KM between the planet's ground surface and that of the lowest clouds closest to the planet (so like 2000 meters), the reactions still give MFTL+ over that distance.
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Yup. Personally, I have an argument to try getting a higher end but if nothing else, that should be the bare minimum low end to take.
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Heads up btw, but im going to bed now, so ill comment more later if more replies are made while im asleep.
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This is irrelevant. One doesn't need to be prepared to do something hours before the event. "Preparation" in this context only requires a duration of seconds. Again, if I need to stop my car at a desired location, I only need some milliseconds to make up my mind and apply the brakes to slow it down.
This still doesn't mean it scales. "Immediately" is a word that depends upon context. Every MFTL+ travel feat happens immediately.
These effects can be caused anything entering the atmosphere at MHS+ speeds or any degree of super high speeds. By these visuals, it can even be argued that they slowed down considerably. As such, it doesn't prove or disprove anything.
Stopping mid-air or stopping accurately at the destination is also not proof of flight speed scaling to reactions.
I am bewildered how four people instantly agreed to these inconsequential points that have no substance to prove the scaling.
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Those points were kinda already discussed between me and Agnaa…….but I’ll answer anyway.
This doesn’t matter much anyway, Agnaa and I talked about this already for several posts. You should read through them
Especially the most recent replies since MFTL+ reactions are still able to be granted.
But like I said, discussed already earlier with Agnaa.
Anyway, this short response ignored the entire recent discussion and only addressed my first post.
This is a pretty terrible comparison to this when the concept of speed limits exist and a character doesn’t operate like a car.
This doesn’t matter much anyway, Agnaa and I talked about this already for several posts. You should read through them
Never said it meant it scales. But again, Agnaa and I had a discussion on this already, so this is irrelevant.
Again, discussed this already throughout an exchange of several posts. Read them.
Especially the most recent replies since MFTL+ reactions are still able to be granted.
Cool. This wasn’t brought up to claim reactions scale
But like I said, discussed already earlier with Agnaa.
How about you not accuse people of “blindly” agreeing with this just because they don’t take the same stance as you?
Anyway, this short response ignored the entire recent discussion and only addressed my first post.
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I have read through them. Nothing new has been surfaced.
You brought up an animation inconsistency where, looking from far in space they are supposedly entering the atmosphere where there are no clouds, and in the next scene, there are clouds. They are also entering at an angle, going from left to right, so if you want to say there is no animation inconsistency, it would just mean the land area is covered by the clouds, which would explain why they did not land in the ocean, but still wouldn't explain the clouds.
All of this is irrelevant because this is a textbook travel speed feat and there is no proof they are entering the atmosphere at MFTL+ speeds, or at such speeds that would make them scale to their reactions. If cases like this were applicable for scaling, we wouldn't even need the standards because 99% of space travel involves someone landing on some planet.
You brought up an animation inconsistency where, looking from far in space they are supposedly entering the atmosphere where there are no clouds, and in the next scene, there are clouds. They are also entering at an angle, going from left to right, so if you want to say there is no animation inconsistency, it would just mean the land area is covered by the clouds, which would explain why they did not land in the ocean, but still wouldn't explain the clouds.
All of this is irrelevant because this is a textbook travel speed feat and there is no proof they are entering the atmosphere at MFTL+ speeds, or at such speeds that would make them scale to their reactions. If cases like this were applicable for scaling, we wouldn't even need the standards because 99% of space travel involves someone landing on some planet.
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Please kindly not say words I didn't actually say before. Because thats not what I said. I didnt say "there are no clouds". I said the path they are flying in on from space was heading towards an area where there's no land. The ocean.
And then when landing, the area is land with clouds hovering them.
Does not take rocket science to discern that this is a trajectory change.
See above. This is a strawman.
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This is not true. MFTL+ reactions would only be able to be granted if there was no slowdown when arriving at the destination, and the evidence you've given hasn't sufficiently proven that. Only that they were moving at maybe Hypersonic or MHS speeds when entering.
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That’s not what you said before. You said that once they notice the destination and then alter or slow down, the reactions would be granted.
Otherwise, what was the whole point in discussing adjustment earlier?
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That’s not what you said before. You said that once they notice the destination and then alter or slow down, the reactions would be granted.
The reactions would be granted based on the speed they're going at, which may have slowed down. I thought I'd made it clear enough that I didn't need to keep repeating it, so when you continued asking about adjustment I just answered about that.
Otherwise, what was the whole point in discussing adjustment earlier?
To help frame it, I'll post what I said earlier about why slowdown was discussed:
In contrast, lack of adjustment is a harder argument to understand, because we don't always think about how we "react" 180ms before we move, and many people don't have experience with, say, watching for cues to hit frame-perfect tricks in video games. But on the other hand, lack of adjustment can turn most flight speed feats to human level, since they can just think on human timescales over the course of the feat (human timescales end at 0.08 seconds) to precisely stop.
It's a more difficult discussion to have, but it properly stops flight speed scaling to reactions, instead of just reducing the amount it scales.
The reactions would be granted based on the speed they're going at, which may have slowed down. I thought I'd made it clear enough that I didn't need to keep repeating it, so when you continued asking about adjustment I just answered about that.
Otherwise, what was the whole point in discussing adjustment earlier?
To help frame it, I'll post what I said earlier about why slowdown was discussed:
In contrast, lack of adjustment is a harder argument to understand, because we don't always think about how we "react" 180ms before we move, and many people don't have experience with, say, watching for cues to hit frame-perfect tricks in video games. But on the other hand, lack of adjustment can turn most flight speed feats to human level, since they can just think on human timescales over the course of the feat (human timescales end at 0.08 seconds) to precisely stop.
It's a more difficult discussion to have, but it properly stops flight speed scaling to reactions, instead of just reducing the amount it scales.
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Okay so before I continue off of earlier arguments, I want to make sure this is clear.
IF there’s no slowdown to account for, then the full travel speed would be acceptable to use?
IF there’s no slowdown to account for, then the full travel speed would be acceptable to use?
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As long as it's the same instance of the feat occurring on screen, yeah.
(We wouldn't scale the last moments of an 8 second universe crossing feat to the speed used in a 3 second universe crossing feat)
(We wouldn't scale the last moments of an 8 second universe crossing feat to the speed used in a 3 second universe crossing feat)
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Wait what do you mean by that last part?
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If you were to find another feat where they traveled across the universe in 10 minutes, with some explicit indication that their speed was constant in that instance only, we wouldn't use that with their current calc'd speed of traveling across the universe in 3 seconds. It would need its own calc.
But if you find some reason for there to be no slowdown in the 3 second feat, it'd be fine to use.
But if you find some reason for there to be no slowdown in the 3 second feat, it'd be fine to use.
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