Cardfight speed downgrade

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Think of it this way.

Flying through space doesn't require that your reactions should scale to your flight speed. If you read the thread, you'd notice that you can easily fly through space at MFTL+ speeds even if your reaction speed is only MHS+.

Now, your case is like this:
You're saying that just because a character is flying 10 meters length or making twists and turns to catch someone over a very short distance, they should move at MFTL+ speeds too since they can move at MFTL+ speeds in space. But for doing that over such a short range while maneuvering, you'd need your reactions to somewhat scale to your flight speed, otherwise you'd collide. Which means that your reaction speed would be MFTL+ too.

This wasn't what I was saying though. I didn't even mention maneuvering when talking about this, you were the one who brought this up AKM.

The only part of this that somewhat matches what I was saying (or trying to say) is a character flying 10 meters length, or whatever close quarters distance, at MFTL+ speeds. But instead of the user having the reactions to propel themselves without crashing, my point was that if the opponent reacts to the flyer tackling or charging at them while flying through the air, the opponent's reactions then scale. Like if Character A is front of Character B over a given distance, and Character A flies at Character B. Then Character B reacts while Character A is in flying motion towards them.

The opponent's reaction speeds would then be scaling the the attacker's flight speeds. Which would then scale to everything else under the circumstance that both characters can tag each other with their attacks, showing relativity in speed between each other.

Are you understanding yet? In the first case, you only require MHS+ reaction speed, while in the second case you'd need your reactions to scale to your flight speed. If you don't have any evidence that your reactions scale to MFTL+ speeds, then you can't claim that you're flying at that speed in close quarters. Your flight speed in close quarters depends on your reaction speed, not the other way around, like you are saying.

Like I said, manuevering in close quarters wasn't what I was talking about. But I'll respond to this too. This is counter-intitutive AKM because I can just flip this right back at you. If you claim reactions are needed for your MFTL+ flight speed, then having MFTL+ flight speed in and of itself is supporting evidence for the reactions being as fast.

That being said, like I said before, the maneuvering aspect of this whole thing and how we're treating it now is a larger issue with the standards in general that I will be taking to a thread for a more deeper discussion later.

 

[Armorchompy]

Not baseless, because the point here is that acceleration won't drop FTL, much less absurdly high MFTL+ like this, into non FTL/MFTL+ speeds when accelerating. Even if slower, the speed is still MFTL+

So factoring in acceleration doesn't change a thing.

It kinda is. If the timeframe is absurdly short, and your claiming there's acceleration, then the time it takes to reach acceleration would then be extremely short too, to the point where it doesn't matter. A space flight feat that takes no more than a second to reach the end of the universe isn't going to have more than one second needed for acceleration.

cool, our standards disagree so i guess revise them

Okay and I don't agree with us being "incredibly conservative" when that is a personal take of how much one finds and doesnt find acceptable. Which shouldn't be applied as a universal umbrella standard for every little thing. This site suffers from enough incredulity as it is.

Yeah it's a personal take so like, feel free to disagree but it's not an argument.

And given the absurd amount of it shown in this thread, which I can assure you has never ever been displayed for any other series here, one would think this is to cockblock verses specifically (even if that is not your intention).

Well, if you think that, stop thinking that. This should eventually be applied to all verses with similar feats.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

cool, our standards disagree so i guess revise them

Show me where in the standards does acceleration drop quadrillion x MFTL to non MFTL speed then.

Yeah it's a personal take so like, feel free to disagree but it's not an argument.

Much like having the personal take in the first place isn't an argument to be skeptical like this.

Well, if you think that, stop thinking that. This should eventually be applied to all verses with similar feats.

Or it shouldn't be because this is hilariously an awfully huge witch hunt and nitpicking. And blatantly so.

 

[Quangotjokes]

To be fair, if acceleration is being argued Takuto's soul definitely wasn't traversing at mftl upon leaving earth initially.

 

[GuildZero]

Iirc there was a feat or feats brought up in this thread of units reacting to moonlight attacks. So the characters should have MFTL+ travel speed and FTL attack and reactions speed

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

To be fair, if acceleration is being argued Takuto's soul definitely wasn't traversing at mftl upon leaving earth initially.

This is proven wrong when we later see him and Ultra Rare arrive back and having only like a second pass by on Earth after they come back. Plus, once we actually see them take off, they reach outside of earth extremely fast.

So either there's no acceleration at play for them, or the acceleration happened so unbelievably fast that it ultimately wouldn't matter.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Iirc there was a feat or feats brought up in this thread of units reacting to moonlight attacks. So the characters should have MFTL+ travel speed and FTL attack and reactions speed

It didn't meet light/laser dodging requirements.

 

[GuildZero]

It didn't meet light/laser dodging requirements.

Ok then MFTL+ travel speed. And reaction/combat speed is whatever is the best speed feat in terms of combat

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ok then MFTL+ travel speed. And reaction/combat speed is whatever is the best speed feat in terms of combat

And he's wrong. The light speed attacks blatantly use moonlight, which we know for a fact is actual natural light.

It doesnt need to meet the standards if pure light is being used as the attack.

 

[Armorchompy]

Show me where in the standards does acceleration drop quadrillion x MFTL to non MFTL speed then.

deceleration was part of the original argument. acceleration is literally the same but in reverse

 

[Quangotjokes]

And he's wrong. The light speed attacks blatantly use moonlight, which we know for a fact is actual natural light.

It doesnt need to meet the standards if pure light is being used as the attack.

It's not shown to be pure moon light. It also doesn't travel in a straight line and violated other criteria.

 

[GuildZero]

And he's wrong. The light speed attacks blatantly use moonlight, which we know for a fact is actual natural light.

It doesnt need to meet the standards if pure light is being used as the attack.

Can i see the original feat please. Since it will be easier to tell if it does or does not meet site requirements for light/lasers standards

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's not shown to be pure moon light.

It comes from the ******* moon. What's on the moon? Moonlight.

It also doesn't travel in a straight line and violated other criteria.

It does. Tsukuyomi's light attacks from the moon have shown to travel in straight paths, and our criteria doesnt need to have a technique match 100% perfectly in order to qualify at all.

 

[Quangotjokes]

It comes from the ******* moon. What's on the moon? Moonlight.

It does. Tsukuyomi's light attacks from the moon have shown to travel in straight paths, and our criteria doesnt need to have a technique match 100% perfectly in order to qualify at all.

Pure moonlight does not behave in this manner.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Can i see the original feat please. Since it will be easier to tell if it does or does not meet site requirements for light/lasers standards

19:24. Tsukyomi's first use of the attack literally throws light straight from the moon at the opponent.

Then here, at 11:20

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Pure moonlight does not behave in this manner.

Thats Tsukuyomi manipulating the light she is attacking with. Not natural bending.

And even then, again, it is pure moonlight since it's directly coming straight from the moon. No matter what, this is undeniable.

 

[GuildZero]

It comes from the ******* moon. What's on the moon? Moonlight.

It does. Tsukuyomi's light attacks from the moon have shown to travel in straight paths, and our criteria doesnt need to have a technique match 100% perfectly in order to qualify at all.

It needs to meet a minimum of 2 of the standards but it cant meet any of the criteria that proves it is not light speed like bending etc

 

[AKM sama]

The opponent's reaction speeds would then be scaling the the attacker's flight speeds. Which would then scale to everything else under the circumstance that both characters can tag each other with their attacks, showing relativity in speed between each other.

Yeah, but the flyer's speed itself in that instance doesn't scale to their speed when they travel through outer space. That's explained in my post.

then having MFTL+ flight speed in and of itself is supporting evidence for the reactions being as fast.

It's literally not. That was the revision was about and that's what our standards are about. So you're wrong there.

 

[GuildZero]

Thats Tsukuyomi manipulating the light she is attacking with. Not natural bending.

And even then, again, it is pure moonlight since it's directly coming straight from the moon. No matter what, this is undeniable.

On this site even if she is manipulating the light or has the ability to manip natural light if it bends it is not considered light speed

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah, but the flyer's speed itself in that instance doesn't scale to their speed when they travel through outer space. That's explained in my post.


It's literally not. That was the revision was about and that's what our standards are about. So you're wrong there.

Its not explained in your post at all AKM. You do not explain this magical nonsense of a characters traveling not always being at the same speed.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

On this site even if she is manipulating the light or has the ability to manip natural light if it bends it is not considered light speed

The standards are not talking about that. It mentions natural bending, as in the light bending outside of the user's manipulation.

And even then, this isn't enough to claim it's not light speed when the attack itself is directly shown to be pure moonlight, already making it a very damning piece of evidence, and has traveled straight before.

 

[GuildZero]

The standards are not talking about that. It mentions natural bending, as in the light bending outside of the user's manipulation.

And even then, this isn't enough to claim it's not light speed when the attack itself is directly shown to be pure moonlight, already making it a very damning piece of evidence, and has traveled straight before.

I recommend looking at other threads on ftl upgrades using lasers and other light based attacks. The page also says there are other criterias not listed on the page that can determine if it is light speed or not.

Abd i don't make the rules i just follow them

 

[Quangotjokes]

The standards are not talking about that. It mentions natural bending, as in the light bending outside of the user's manipulation.

And even then, this isn't enough to claim it's not light speed when the attack itself is directly shown to be pure moonlight, already making it a very damning piece of evidence, and has traveled straight before.

You just disagree with all of the rules huh?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I recommend looking at other threads on ftl upgrades using lasers and other light based attacks.

I have, and it isn't shown that bending from the user focusing the attack on the opponent counts as a legitimate anti-point against the attack being light speed.

If the attack itself bends on its own, thats a different story.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You just disagree with all of the rules huh?

Considering your entire time in this thread has been done with absolutely nothing but being incredibly nitpicky and finding any desperate excuse to knock the speed ratings away, you have no room to talk.

Quite frankly, the very fact that these attacks are coming from a literal and absolutely 100% source of real light already makes the notion on why to argue against it questionable.

 

[GuildZero]

I have, and it isn't shown that bending from the user focusing the attack on the opponent counts as a legitimate anti-point against the attack being light speed.

If the attack itself bends on its own, thats a different story.

Points such as why a light manipulator bending light has been brought up before. Check fairy tail threads nnt threads and many more. If it bends then it is not considered light speed

 

[AKM sama]

Its not explained in your post at all AKM. You do not explain this magical nonsense of a characters traveling not always being at the same speed.

It is. And this is probably the last time I'll try to explain it to you now that you seem to be in a huge denial.

Here's how what you are proposing works:
1. Guy flies at MFTL+ speeds in space.
2. Due to that, he should have MFTL+ reactions/combat speed.
3. Now that the guy has MFTL+ reactions, the guy can also move at MFTL+ speeds over a very short distance of a few meters or while maneuvering, since he won't crash due to his reactions being on the same level as his flight speed.

Here's how it actually is:
1. Guy flies at MFTL+ speeds in space.
2. Guy's reactions/combat speed is not MFTL+ because they don't scale in such a scenario.
3. Now that the guy doesn't have MFTL+ reactions, he won't be able to move at such speeds over short distances or while maneuvering, otherwise he'd crash.

From what I can see of this case, unfortunately the MFTL+ travel speed won't scale to other forms of speed in this scenario. I'm sorry, but that's how it is.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Considering your entire time in this thread has been done with absolutely nothing but being incredibly nitpicky and finding any desperate excuse to knock the speed ratings away, you have no room to talk.

Quite frankly, the very fact that these attacks are coming from a literal and absolutely 100% source of real light already makes the notion on why to argue against it questionable.

Eh, I wouldn't have made the thread if the speed was valid here.

 

[Agnaa]

AKM/Armor said what I would've said, and I'm not familiar enough with light/laser standards to evaluate that other feat.

 

[Quangotjokes]

AKM/Armor said what I would've said, and I'm not familiar enough with light/laser standards to evaluate that other feat.

Here's a link.

 

[Agnaa]

Well, I guess if the only evidence for it is having a realistic source of light, it may not qualify? I more meant that idk how we actually apply them in practice.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Well, I guess if the only evidence for it is having a realistic source of light, it may not qualify? I more meant that idk how we actually apply them in practice.

They can't meet any criteria for not being light speed. The feat in question doesn't travel in a straight line.

 

[AKM sama]

According to the lightspeed standards, if the only criteria it is fulfilling is originating from a realistic light source, then that's not enough on its own especially when it's shown to not travel in straight lines. This is explicitly mentioned in the standards.

 

[Quangotjokes]

What more do we need here before we can close the thread and make revisions? It seems most of us agree that the flight speed doesn't scale to reaction.

 

[GuildZero]

Find the speed ratings for their reaction speed

 

[Quangotjokes]

I'll see what I can find. Aren't too many valid ones.

 

[GuildZero]

I'll see what I can find. Aren't too many valid ones.

Ok then

 

[Quangotjokes]

I've been scanning but for the most part they only react to each other's attacks. Unless it's lightning based attacks then they get blitzed from what I've seen.

 

[Agnaa]

Y'all can continue looking for replacement feats, but Kukui created a thread attempting to revise the flight speed standards, we should probably hold off on applying a downgrade until that thread's resolved.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Oh ok