Major My Hero Academia Speed Downgrade! (Probably).

[RidleyX]

The entire argument is stupid based off one premise

Shigaraki fired radio waves to disable the jets

Why in the **** would he intentionally gimp and slow down his radio waves ? It makes no logical sense

Shigaraki: “gee those jets with the lasers could be a problem, better gimp my attack and reduce its effectiveness”.

 

[Greatsage13th]

The entire argument is stupid based off one premise.
Why in the **** would he intentionally gimp and slow down his radio waves ? It makes no logical sense

Shigaraki: “gee those jets with the lasers could be a problem, better gimp my attack and reduce its effectiveness”.

Please do not attempt to make remarks too intense.

 

[Papusupreme]

The entire argument is stupid based off one premise

Shigaraki fired radio waves to disable the jets

Why in the **** would he intentionally gimp and slow down his radio waves ? It makes no logical sense

Shigaraki: “gee those jets with the lasers could be a problem, better gimp my attack and reduce its effectiveness”.

Yeah, what Greatsage13th said. Additionally, you may be reported and eventually banned.

 

[57Dev]

Damn this is still dragging on ? The op sure is fighting tooth to nail for a 0.4% downgrade.

 

[Maitreya12]

and actually and the reading wrong one yeah you used several sources saying light in atmosphere is still nigh = the SoL in vacuum with others corroborating that fact and you used that to say things outside of the light are moving light speed and that radio waves are drastically slower in atmosphere when I showed it clearly is not

I would really like for you to go and quote where I said:

“Radio waves are drastically slower in the atmosphere.”

That’s all I’m gonna say on the matter.

Why did I respond so quick? I'm really never beating the yapper allegations

That shit’s an actual problem I have too

A contradiction doesn't need to be a narrative impossibility. It's literally just "the manga did X, the anime did Y, so we go with X." Hence the whole "Star's jet rising" thing. You're assuming she might've risen in the manga version despite not being suggested.

Yeah so, recognizing I also am a yapster, imma save you the wall of text and say it very simply:

The calc also would contradict the manga as it’s assuming Stars was in the same position when like you said “she moved forward” and there was a full page between that motion and the moment the attack was fired, so to assume she was at the very epicenter of the blast would simply be not true.

Which by the standard of “the manga did X and the calc did Y, so we go with X” the calc would be contradictory to the manga and not valid.

The final panel would probably be a better distance measurement.

Seriously, I could keep yapping forever, and I literally had to stop myself before I was gonna torture you with a bloody bibliography.

 

[Maitreya12]

Alright imma make a diagram and see how this works:

 

[Chariot190]

Alright imma make a diagram and see how this works:

Do it in MS paint.

 

[Dalesean027]

I would really like for you to go and quote where I said:

“Radio waves are drastically slower in the atmosphere.”

That’s all I’m gonna say on the matter.

Sure thing

No it is not.

“Air canon” would have mass to it, “air” itself has mass. Mass does not travel at light speed. If you’re combining quirks, you’ve mixed in mass with photons, thereby making it not light speed.

Because it’s a combination quirk. He is combining quirks together here.

He combines photons with mass, radio waves are pure photons, and air carries mass to it. He has now mixed and added them together.

It’s just science. You combine something pure with something not pure, you get an impure substance. If photons are pure and mass would be impure, and they are separate, but then are combined, the resulting mixture would inherently be mixed.

your implication certainly isn't one that aligns with this only making a 0.04% speed difference when all my sources I sent prior supported them practically being equal to lightspeed when in air

 

[57Dev]

So let me put out a summary here. Op's entire argument relies upon

- The air Mass can't move at light speed.
Something we very much do ignore here like most of fiction. What are you gonna say next, Goku isn't ftl because Science. I guess MUI Goku vs Jiren was only Hypersonic because they were hitting each other with Air pressure.

- The air canon is somehow adding mass to Radio waves.
Which is stupid. Air canon only adds force and range to the attack in order to push back the planes. That's like putting a fan behind a radio, and thinking that it will slow down the radiation.

- Star only dodged Air canon.
Wrong. Air Canon is shown as white air fx. EMP is shown as Yellow static + Purple black lightning fx. And her comms are working fine so there shouldn't be anyone saying that she got hit by the emp part of the attack.

- "The calc is wrong"
Make your own.

Close this thread, he is going to argue for a eternity like this. Closing Reply on this -

I Disagree with the Downgrade, the argument is so bad it feels like a troll.

 

[Maitreya12]

Sure thing


your implication certainly isn't one that aligns with this only making a 0.04% speed difference when all my sources I sent prior supported them practically being equal to lightspeed when in air

Wow…how crazy is it, that I expressly state to you, that my position is not that to you, multiple times, and you still keep repeating yourself.

so this being the basis of your premise is already faulty, the atmosphere is still thin enough to allow radio waves to practically still move at 99.99% So

That is not the basis for my argument, it was simply something to point out.

The basis for the argument is: added mass to radio waves thereby decreases speed.

Radio waves + air = essentially still just SoL i literally sent you several sources saying that... air as a medium doesn't really do anything to slow its speed

That’s not what your source is saying.

“They penetrate the atmosphere.”

It’s says radio waves penetrating the atmosphere causes it to go 99.99% the speed of light. That’s completely different.

Air can’t approach the speed of light, mass approach or reach SoL.

“Air canon” would have mass to it, “air” itself has mass. Mass does not travel at light speed. If you’re combining quirks, you’ve mixed in mass with photons, thereby making it not light speed.

I actually just don’t understand why you keep mentioning air penetrating the atmosphere, when that is not at all in relation to my argument.

But you keep trying to ascribe it’s my position when….

Again, this is different from my posotion.

That is in reference to radio waves being weighed down due to fiction pushing back against it.

My argument is in relation to added mass slowing down the radio waves’ speed.

It was simply something I said just to point out, nothing more.

I’m gonna remove it from the OP because it’s clearly confusing others for the main point.

 

[Dalesean027]

I actually just don’t understand why you keep mentioning air penetrating the atmosphere, when that is not at all in relation to my argument.

no Idea where you're getting that from but I'll quote my sources directly since you're getting me talking about penetrating the atmosphere out of no where when I never said those were at all lol

"the speed of light in air is almost equal to the speed of light in a vacuum." this is about the refractive index of air and radiowaves travel through it. Nothing about "penetrating the atmosphere" as you are saying for some reason.

"Air is thin enough that in the Earth's atmosphere radio waves travel very close to the speed of light." Once again simply mentioning that air is thin enough that radio waves basically travel at the speed of light. so where are you getting anything about penetrating the atmosphere from?

regardless the only source that actually mentions anything similar to that would be the Nasa one and that's in refence to radio waves that are being sent through space not any part of it talking about them in air like the topic is about which means you got yourself hung up on one part of one of the sources that didn't pertain the to specifc part I linked it for

 

[SODAKU]

Disagree with the OP

 

[Maitreya12]

So let me put out a summary here. Op's entire argument relies upon

- The air Mass can't move at light speed.
Something we very much do ignore here like most of fiction.

Ok stop, let’s break it down.

What evidence do you have that the air travels at light speed to begin with?

Because the person who made the calc, in this very thread has said they don’t believe this.

I don't see anything to suggest the Air Cannon was moving at SoL.

EMP is shown as Yellow static + Purple black lightning fx.

Wrong.

EMP is Purple Only.​

Air Canon is what’s Yellow.​

Do it in MS paint.

I’m not a good drawer, so I’ll just visualize it with these and the above images.



The highlighted yellow is the only thing here in which moves at light speed as those are the EMP waves.

The red line represents how Stars would only need to move a much shorter distance in the timeframe given in the calc.

As the wide ranging air of the attack, depicted as yellow in the anime, wouldn’t be moving at the same rate as the thin and scattered purple sections of the attack, which would be the only things Star would need to dodge that move at the speed of light.

 

[Maitreya12]

Snip

“Speed of light in air”

“Air is thin enough for radio waves to go close to the speed of light.

Literally nothing to do with my argument.

Light and radio waves are massless photons

We’re talking about added mass moving at SoL being impossible.

Again, literally nothing to do with my point whatsoever.

 

[RedReaper616]

“Speed of light in air”

“Air is thin enough for radio waves to go close to the speed of light.

Literally nothing to do with my argument.

Light and radio waves are massless photons

We’re talking about added mass moving at SoL being impossible.

Again, literally nothing to do with my point whatsoever.

The added mass in question is air…so light moving at a relatively similar speed to SoL in air would have everything to do with your argument, no? Given Heavy Payload has no mass we can identify.

Edit: Also, I’m pretty sure they already pointed out the air cannon is irrelevant to dodging the Radio Wave, as they calculated it entirely separately from it due to the fact Star’s Communicator was perfectly fine.

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, CloverDragon03 and Dalsean make more sense to me. Disagree with the thread.

 

[Maitreya12]

The added mass in question is air…so light moving at a relatively similar speed to SoL in air would have everything to do with your argument, no?

No, and I’m going to explain it really simply.

You think I’m saying the waves moving through the mass of air is what’s decreasing the speed

That is not my position.

The argument before is the waves carrying extra mass as it’s moving is what decreases speed. As mass cannot approach or reach light speed and having extra mass be carried weighs down speed.

“Carried” and “moved through” are two distinctly different things.

Photons move through the air, but they do not carry mass. Air having mass around them doesn’t mean they themselves are having mass.

 

[Maitreya12]

Yeah, CloverDragon03 and Dalsean make more sense to me. Disagree with the thread.

Do it in MS paint.

After going through the counter-arguments to the OP, I'm switching my position to disagree.

To put in Diagram form the issue with the calc​

White= Air not traveling at light speed ​

- The calc creator.

I don't see anything to suggest the Air Cannon was moving at SoL.

Purple=EMP Waves moving at light speed.​

Red=Stars and Stripes​

Red Arrows=Area which Stars can move in to avoid Purple.​

The calculation assumes EVERYTHING is moving at light speed and therefore Stars has to move a much greater distance to avoid the attack in the time measured in the calc.

Which wouldn’t be the case as only the radio waves are traveling at light speed. Nothing else.

 

[Dalesean027]

To put in Diagram form the issue with the calc​

White= Air not traveling at light speed ​

- The calc creator.

Purple=EMP Waves moving at light speed.​

Red=Stars and Stripes​

Red Arrows=Area which Stars can move in to avoid Purple.​

The calculation assumes EVERYTHING is moving at light speed and therefore Stars has to move a much greater distance to avoid the attack in the time measured in the calc.

Which wouldn’t be the case as only the radio waves are traveling at light speed. Nothing else.

Okay? She still dodges the radio waves though which as we can see surround and travel through and around that entire area of air so what's the point here?

 

[Maitreya12]

Okay? She still dodges the radio waves though which as we can see surround and travel through and around that entire area of air so what's the point here?

The radio waves are the purple, she only needs to go around the purple so it’s a much lower distance.

Edit:

The EMP waves shown in the manga also directly match the structure of the electrical waves seen in the manga in the actual attack itself for further proof.

Again, she would only need to move a much shorter distance than calced to avoid the radio waves.

 

[CloverDragon03]

The purple stuff permeates throughout the entire Air Cannon, so I don't see what the point being made is...

 

[Maitreya12]

The purple stuff permeates throughout the entire Air Cannon, so I don't see what the point being made is...

YES EXACTLY!!!

which means that the speed of the attack is the speed in which air canon is traveling at, not at the speed the radio waves are.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Uh, no. Because radio waves have a known speed (light speed, or 99.99% SoL in air). Air Cannon doesn't have a known speed like this, so it's very easy to state that Air Cannon's traveling at the same speed

If anything, I think this argument is self-defeating

 

[Therefir]

I think the radio waves being portrayed as a purple or yellow lightning is nothing more than an artistic choice anyways, since they are invisible and spread evenly as waves in one direction, also this lightning is permeating the whole attack so I don't see the point of taking each individual lightning as if only that was the radio wave.

Spoiler

 

[Maitreya12]

Uh, no. Because radio waves have a known speed (light speed, or 99.99% SoL in air). Air Cannon doesn't have a known speed like this, so it's very easy to state that Air Cannon's traveling at the same speed

If anything, I think this argument is self-defeating

And now we’ve come full circle!​

It wouldn’t be, because you’re assuming that the radio waves are making the air canon light speed.

But why can’t the air canon simply make the radio waves slower?

You know, because mass weighing down speed, and “air” is comprised of mass and that weighs down a massless photon?

You’re talking about massless photons moving in space, but you just said they are permeated through the air canon,

Air is not massless.

Or what if the air canon is keeping the radio waves within in the air, which means it’s speed would be based on the projection of the air canon as the radio waves are contained within the air.

You cannot assume the air canons are made light speed by the radio waves nor is this assumption made in the calc or by the person who created it.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Air isn't going to magically add mass to radio waves. It's a medium for radio waves to travel through.

 

[Maitreya12]

I think the radio waves being portrayed as a purple or yellow lightning is nothing more than an artistic choice anyways

I also showed how they matched with the manga panels as well, as the radio waves’ electrical structure in the blast match the structure of EMP waves AFO used. The anime would further indicate as such.

also this lightning is permeating the whole attack

Yes, exactly, so you need to prove the attack itself is moving at light speed.

If the lightning is permeating throughout the air, the air would need to be traveling at the speed of light for for it to reach Star in the time frame the calculated measured.

You get me? The calc improperly assumes the air would be also be traveling at light speed, if the waves are permeating throughout the air, then they would go by the speed in which the attack is launched. the air wouldn’t by the speed of the waves itself,

 

[Maitreya12]

Air isn't going to magically add mass to radio waves. It's a medium for radio waves to travel through.

“Radio waves aren’t going to magically make the air canon light speed itself. Air is mass, and while waves travel through air, the air itself is not traveling at the speed of light.”

“Oh but it’s fiction” Yeah exact same logic applies.

You can’t be pulling this “magical” stunt bro when we’re literally talking about fiction.

 

[Therefir]

“Oh but it’s fiction” Yeah exact same logic applies.

You can’t be pulling this “magical” stunt bro when we’re literally talking about fiction.

Then let's just make the air cannon Relativistic+ to SoL for keeping up with the radio waves, because this is fiction and air can move as fast as the author wants.

 

[Dalesean027]

“Radio waves aren’t going to magically make the air canon light speed itself. Air is mass, and while waves travel through air, the air itself is not traveling at the speed of light.”

“Oh but it’s fiction” Yeah exact same logic applies.

You can’t be pulling this “magical” stunt bro when we’re literally talking about fiction.

Yeah and this is where common sense comes in if we're being completely honest here. Someone said it earlier albeit a bit more strongly worded but the point still stands

The entire argument is stupid based off one premise

Shigaraki fired radio waves to disable the jets

Why in the **** would he intentionally gimp and slow down his radio waves ? It makes no logical sense

Shigaraki: “gee those jets with the lasers could be a problem, better gimp my attack and reduce its effectiveness”.

Now what sense does it make for him to slow his own attack down when he has SoL radio waves that he actively wants to use to fire at them

 

[Therefir]

Air isn't going to magically add mass to radio waves. It's a medium for radio waves to travel through.

I share the same opinion, mixing matter like air with energy like radio waves would require serious levels of matter manipulation, and we don't even know if it would actually affect the speed of radio waves.

Although most likely, all Shigaraki is doing is firing two Quirks at the same time.

 

[CloverDragon03]

@Maitreya12 Either way you look at it you're gonna be picking and choosing, but the way I'm describing it is at least consistent with how radio waves work. They don't get mass added to them, they travel through a medium.

 

[Maitreya12]

Then let's just make the air cannon Relativistic+ to SoL for keeping up with the radio waves, because this is fiction and air can move as fast as the author wants.

But like that’s the thing though….

We don’t know what the author wants. We don’t know what speed the author intended to make the air act as, since again, we have no idea what speed the author intended as.

Did he intend for the attack’s speed to be at which “radio waves” travels at, or did he intend for the attack’s speed to be at which the “air canons” are fired at. We wouldn’t know,

I think would just be unquantifiable for how fast it was personally, but you can go ahead and recalculate it under the conditions you think.

 

[Maitreya12]

Although most likely, all Shigaraki is doing is firing two Quirks at the same time.

OK then, perfect.

That’s where we would go with the conditions I levied before in this post:

To put in Diagram form the issue with the calc​

White= Air not traveling at light speed ​

- The calc creator.

Purple=EMP Waves moving at light speed.​

Red=Stars and Stripes​

Red Arrows=Area which Stars can move in to avoid Purple.​

The calculation assumes EVERYTHING is moving at light speed and therefore Stars has to move a much greater distance to avoid the attack in the time measured in the calc.

Which wouldn’t be the case as only the radio waves are traveling at light speed. Nothing else.

You asked before this question right?

so I don't see the point of taking each individual lightning as if only that was the radio wave.

That would be the point.

If you’re treating the attacks as separate like you said, then we remove the air and only calculate the distance she would need to avoid the EMP waves depicted, because only the radio waves are treated as light speed for the calculation.

It’s a catch 22 either way. Thats my point.

 

[CloverDragon03]

But the EMP permeates through the Air Cannon in its entirety so nothing changes...

 

[Maitreya12]

But the EMP permeates through the Air Cannon in its entirety so nothing changes...

YES EXACTLY!!!

which means that the speed of the attack is the speed in which air canon is traveling at, not at the speed the radio waves are.

And I’m not doing that to be smarmy or anything, I’m doing that to not repeat myself.

Like you said Clover, you’re picking.

Either it’s permeating throughout the air canon like you said, at which point it would depend on the speed at which the air canon travels at, not the speed the radio waves are. You have to assume the air canon is traveling at light speed for the calculation to be true.

Or the attacks are separate, at which point we can’t factor in the area in which the air canon covers and only the factor the area which the electrical structures do, as the air canon would reach the distance measured at a different time because only it is not assumed to be light speed.

I hope I have made those two sides very clear.

 

[Ped2018]

Maitreya in this thread

 

[CloverDragon03]

Either it’s permeating throughout the air canon like you said, at which point it would depend on the speed at which the air canon travels at, not the speed the radio waves are. You have to assume the air canon is traveling at light speed for the calculation to be true.

This is just wrong, though. It's as simple as:

Radio waves are light speed -> Air Cannon's speed is unknown -> Radio waves travel at the same speed as the Air Cannon and permeate throughout it -> Therefore, the Air Cannon is also light speed

We're not going to make radio waves, which are known to travel at the speed of light, some unknown speed. When you have an unknown, you don't turn what's known into an unknown. You simply solve for the unknown. The Air Cannon's speed would be the speed of the radio waves, the radio waves wouldn't change speed - because the medium doesn't change and Air Cannon doesn't magically add mass to the radio waves.

Your only response to this latter point was "it's fiction so this 'magical' thing doesn't matter." That's not a good response on its own. Radio waves are a real thing with a known speed. Air Cannon is a fictional attack with an unknown speed - there's no "speed of air", for instance. So the latter can be whatever, while the former cannot.

 

[ShigarakiShimura]

YES EXACTLY!!!

which means that the speed of the attack is the speed in which air canon is traveling at, not at the speed the radio waves are.

We see in the anime that the radio waves appeared/traveled the same time/speed as the attack. It's not like we have any reason to believe that the radio waves traveled there first/faster than the attack that star dodged. So now you'll have to justify why the radio waves would be any slower than at least 99.999% SOL

 

[SuperStar]

Maitreya in this thread

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