• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Cardfight speed downgrade

Quangotjokes

Quangotjokes

7,142
3,653
There seems to be some inconsistencies when viewing the speed of the characters in the series. To begin, the souls are transported to cray and this isn't something that scales to the units. The soul appears there but this in no way scales to the units combat speeds or fit into the context of the verse.

14:00

It's stated that they are transported to the planet cray.



As for the speed feat itself, after being defeated the unit dissolves into it's non physical form and is transported back to cray, this in no way is possible prior to turning into energy.



Thus, the speed of the units need to be revisited and revised.
 
Yeah no, as the only one who is working on the pages here, I can tell you this is wrong, and completely disagreeing.

You completely missed the point of the speed rating and I can tell you didn't even see the calc for it. The MFTL+ rating the characters Units have is because of TAKUTOs soul physically traveling to Cray from Earth. He didn't teleport or transport his soul, but physically crossed universes. By doing that, it becomes a speed feat which scales to Vanguard Units.

And it fits in the context of the series since the souls of Cardfighters are explicitly far far inferior to Units in terms of stats. Their souls are weak astral bodies that require Units in order to do any battling whatsoever. This is an extremely consistent standard in Vanguard.
 
You being the only one doesn't make your interpretation of what's going on the only valid one. It's especially stated that the souls are transported. There isn't any combat speed scaling to be had there.

The souls being weaker is irrelevant, they don't travel there on there own.
 
It does when I'm the only one who knows what I'm talking about and the actual reasons for the scaling.

Reread the justifications and come back. The souls being transported mean absolutely nothing when that isn't what the speed ratings are based on.
 
What about that implies it was through sheer speed and not being transported like every other time I'm the series?
 
The fact that his soul literally physically flies off of earth, goes into outer space, travels past numerous stars and physically lands on Cray in its universe?
 
It was transported there, that's the method at which the transporting happens.

1:44 we even see their souls quickly return as well. The other two are even visibly confused upon returning to earth.

 
Quangotjokes said:
It's not headcanon when it's been stated and shown that souls are transported to the planet.
Click to expand...
Okay? This is irrelevant here for this specific case

Once again, MFTL+ does not come from Cardfighters transporting their souls to Cray. It comes from Takutos soul physically traveling to Cray, literally shown in the very clip you posted here.
 
Yes because it’s literally shown to be different?

We are given a clear cut speed feat from what Takuto did, which is usuable to scale the verse by. What he did isn’t transportation in any way, shape or form.
 
That doesn't make any sense, all the souls travel to planet cray. Only difference here is we see it. It's in no way applicable to the units combat speeds.
 
Wouldn't this just be travel speed?
And we have a new speed rule that wont scale crossing universes or galactic distances to reaction or attack speed
 
Pain_to12 said:
Wouldn't this just be travel speed?
And we have a new speed rule that wont scale crossing universes or galactic distances to reaction or attack speed
Click to expand...
The units don't have any travel speed feats of that level either. The new rule works well also.
 
Quangotjokes said:
That doesn't make any sense, all the souls travel to planet cray. Only difference here is we see it. It's in no way applicable to the units combat speeds.
Click to expand...
Headcanon. The simple result here is that, in most other instances, cardfighters use teleportation with their souls. Takuto’s soul did not here.

While it is true that Cardfighters more often than not teleport their souls to Cray using their imagination, this feat here displays physical movement with Takuto’s soul.

It also can’t be “showing” the transpiration since teleportation with Cardfighters souls is always depicted as being instantaneous (since it’s teleportion). Takuto on the other hand used his soul to literally launch right off of earth and physically cross universes with interstellar flight. In an extremely quick timeframe, but not instantly.

As a result, the 2 cases are very different.
Quangotjokes said:
I've even reviewed the respect thread that was created by Kukui and there isn't a single speed feat beyond light speed. So how would this even be consistent?

vsbattles.fandom.com

Cardfight Vanguard Season 1 Feats Blog

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
That’s not an argument. It’s consistent because of the standard in Vanguard that Cardfighters souls are far inferior to Units with their souls, as they are weak astral bodies with next to no fighting capability on their own. Scaling doesn’t invalidate a feat

And other speed feats that Units do in Cardfights are shown to be very casual anyway, so it’s not indicative to use to argue against the rating for them.
Pain_to12 said:
Wouldn't this just be travel speed?
And we have a new speed rule that wont scale crossing universes or galactic distances to reaction or attack speed
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that only applies to normal MFTL+ travel around space, not travel across the entire universe and entering another one.

Especially because of how ridiculously fast the feat is done too.
 
It's stated the souls are transported not teleported. Who's using headcanon now?

It doesn't matter how casual those feats are, if they're consistently getting hit by mhs attacks then the outlier would be the mftl speed rating obviously.

Downgrading would be the most sufficient here.
 
Quangotjokes said:
It's stated the souls are transported not teleported. Who's using headcanon now?
Click to expand...
You are by arguing semantics. You know exactly what I mean by teleported. Transported, teleported, same shit. A case of one going from point A to point B without physical movement.

This case is clearly not that since Takuto's soul physically moved. What about this is hard to understand?
Quangotjokes said:
It doesn't matter how casual those feats are, if they're consistently getting hit by mhs attacks then the outlier would be the mftl speed rating obviously.
Click to expand...
Your assuming those attacks are "just" mhs for absolutely no reason and without a shred of evidence backing that. Units attacking other Units just makes their attacks the same speed.
Quangotjokes said:
Downgrading would be the most sufficient here.
Click to expand...
No, the feat staying is most sufficient when your argument for downgrading uses a standard that doesnt apply here, mixing them up, and using personal interpretation.
 
Transported and teleporting are very different. Transporting implies it's not done consciously, which is the case when all the soul travel to cray.

I'm assuming lightning is mhs for no reasons? Can't argue with that logic

The feat not only doesn't scales to combat speed, it's vastly above anything else shown in the series.
 
Last edited:
Quangotjokes said:
Transported and teleporting are very different. Transporting implies it's not done consciously, which is the case when all the soul travel to cray.
Click to expand...
For one, they aren't different in terms of the end result. Transportation and teleportation are both done where one goes to another place without using any physical movement. Which again, is clearly not the case here as Takuto's soul physically moved. The latter is undeniable, whether you like it or not.

And second, "not don't consciously" is more Headcanon. Considering that Cardfighters actively use their imagination to send their souls to Cray, they are consciously making this happen to their souls. A soul doesn't just move somewhere beyond the user's wishes.

And even then, even if by some random chance that they don't consciously do it, Takuto most certainly did here since he consciously gathered his soul (and Ultra Rare's souls) in the form of a beam and launch off of earth into space. A clear active action he willed to happen.
Quangotjokes said:
I'm assuming lightning is mhs for no reasons? Can't argue with that logic
Click to expand...
What does lightning have anything to do with this?
Quangotjokes said:
The feat not only scales to combat speed, it's vastly above anything else shown in the series.
Click to expand...
I know this exact series that you proclaim you do, and it doesn't matter. None of the speed feats from Vanguard Units are done with anything more than casual effort, showcasing that what they display is not their best. Outliers don't work like this.
 
If it was teleportation it would be stated to be so, their souls don't just appear there they travel there as well.

It isn't conscious, Aichi's first time appearing on planet Cray wasn't done consciously, his soul was transported there via his imagination. Which is explicitly stated in canon.

You said there's no evidence of mhs, the speed rating I actually used feats from your own respect thread.

You keep saying casual but that's irrelevant and headcanon. It's still the consistent speed they're battling at. There's not a single feat any unit has done that's comparable to the souls being transformed to cray.
 
Quangotjokes said:
If it was teleportation it would be stated to be so, their souls don't just appear there they travel there as well.
Click to expand...
Again, you are using semantics here. Transportion, teleportation, the specific word doesnt matter. It's the same stuff. A cardfighters soul appearing out of nowhere without physically moving. Stop pivoting from this.

And if there's any actual traveling done, that just supports my point more that its a speed feat from that regard. You're only helping my case here.
Quangotjokes said:
It isn't conscious, Aichi's first time appearing on planet Cray wasn't done consciously, his soul was transported there via his imagination. Which is explicitly stated in canon.
Click to expand...
Yes, which was done consciously. He and Kai in their first ******* cardfight actively imaged cray, and sent their souls there. That is an active action.
Quangotjokes said:
You said there's no evidence of mhs, the speed rating I actually used feats from your own respect thread.
Click to expand...
Yes and? It's not a counter argument since all of those lightning moving feats are done casually.
Quangotjokes said:
You keep saying casual but that's irrelevant and headcanon.
Click to expand...
Uh, its neither irrelevant or headcanon. None of the Units shown any decent exertion doing them, and they do them extremely immediately. Thus, casual. It's your burden of proof to prove it isn't for them.
Quangotjokes said:
It's still the consistent speed they're battling at.
Click to expand...
It is not.
Quangotjokes said:
There's not a single feat any unit has done that's comparable to the souls being transformed to cray.
Click to expand...
And again, it doesn't matter. Early series scaling such as this cements them as being MFTL+ and there's 0 anti feats for them to say otherwise. Casual feats are not anti feats.
 
GuildZero said:
Quick question

Are their any other MFTL+ feats that happen around this point in the series?
Click to expand...
Not yet. This MFTL+ feat happens at the literal end of S1, and in the beginning of the series, there's no quantifiable speed feats for the Units beyond moving very casually as lightning or simple "quick speeds" that aren't a certain speed tier.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Not yet. This MFTL+ feat happens at the literal end of S1, and in the beginning of the series, there's no quantifiable speed feats for the Units beyond moving very casually as lightning or simple "quick speeds" that aren't a certain speed tier.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Are theif feats from S2 that can be used for S1 scaling
 
By the way, S1 has Light Speed feats as well. Tsukuyomi explicitly can take literal moonlight to use as attacks against opponent Units in battle, and fairly easily at that too.

So even among the casual feats for Units, there's stuff thats at bare minimum light speed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Renitr
The Walking Dead Speed Revision
Replies
15
Views
673
MarkGoldbridge
MarkGoldbridge
Niece
  • Locked
Downgrade Infinite speed Pucci
Replies
22
Views
2K
Planck69
Planck69
Dalesean027
Red Dead Redemption Speed Downgrade
Replies
14
Views
805
ThePrimalHunter
ThePrimalHunter
Peptocoptr27
Catching Up To The Games: Archie Sonic Speed Upgrades + Low 2-C Post Genesis Wave
2
Replies
78
Views
5K
Accelerated_Evolution
Accelerated_Evolution
Berga14
Tensura speed: immeasurable?!
2 3
Replies
96
Views
10K
Mizuki67
Mizuki67
Back
Top