Can Gilgamesh Really Destroy Avalon Along With Earth?

[God243]

Da Vinci: To begin with, even if you release the full power of a Top Servant's Noble Phantasm, it still can't completely destroy the planet.

Da Vinci: Anti-Planetary (or Anti-Star in some translations) Noble Phantasm...even if such a thing existed...According to calculations it's still not possible to destroy this planet.

 

[God243]

Bump

 

[GoldExPoints]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Can you show me the context of that scan? And for my reasoning...
The reason why we never see Gil use 6D Ea is because the only time he fully charges it is against his fight with Enkidu, and Enkidu was pretty much immediately alarmed and kicked into gear to stop him. This already shows that it's incredibly powerful, more powerful than the GoB artifacts Gil was throwing at Enkidu.
It's also confirmed that Ea is the thing that created the World, and it would be weirdly exclusionary to believe that wouldn't include Avalon when it's stated time and time again to be within the World. And Creation feats have been confirmed to be = DC/AP so yes, Ea is Low 1-C.

 

[God243]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Can you show me the context of that scan? And for my reasoning...
The reason why we never see Gil use 6D Ea is because the only time he fully charges it is against his fight with Enkidu, and Enkidu was pretty much immediately alarmed and kicked into gear to stop him. This already shows that it's incredibly powerful, more powerful than the GoB artifacts Gil was throwing at Enkidu.
It's also confirmed that Ea is the thing that created the World, and it would be weirdly exclusionary to believe that wouldn't include Avalon when it's stated time and time again to be within the World. And Creation feats have been confirmed to be = DC/AP so yes, Ea is Low 1-C.

I only have this.

 

[Vietthai96]

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Can you show me the context of that scan? And for my reasoning...
The reason why we never see Gil use 6D Ea is because the only time he fully charges it is against his fight with Enkidu, and Enkidu was pretty much immediately alarmed and kicked into gear to stop him. This already shows that it's incredibly powerful, more powerful than the GoB artifacts Gil was throwing at Enkidu.
It's also confirmed that Ea is the thing that created the World, and it would be weirdly exclusionary to believe that wouldn't include Avalon when it's stated time and time again to be within the World. And Creation feats have been confirmed to be = DC/AP so yes, Ea is Low 1-C.

What, EA is not the thing that created the world, where did the you pull this thing out???

 

[Bernkastelll]

where did the you pull this thing out???

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Im taking this

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

What, EA is not the thing that created the world, where did the you pull this thing out???

It's kinda like participating in world building but not literally creating the world. EA has the authority to weave all creation.

 

[Vietthai96]

It's kinda like participating in world building but not literally creating the world. EA has the authority to weave all creation.

No, that not, Ea is sword of destruction. It was formed along with the Primordial Earth before the concept of sword or weapon even exist, when the planet is still in its early stage with molten magma and rock. It is the reason why Emiya Shirou can't analyze it and trace it along with its material being too alien for Shirou to comprehend. The "sword" was category as Anti-World weapon due to it reveal the truth of the planet (world), return it back to the state before "heaven" and "earth" is a thing. And due to it being Anti-World weapon, it is freakingly effective against Reality Mable, a magecraft that employ inner "world" onto reality

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

No, that not, Ea is sword of destruction. It was formed along with the Primordial Earth before the concept of sword or weapon even exist, when the planet is still in its early stage with molten magma and rock. It is the reason why Emiya Shirou can't analyze it and trace it along with its material being too alien for Shirou to comprehend. The "sword" was category as Anti-World weapon due to it reveal the truth of the planet (world), return it back to the state before "heaven" and "earth" is a thing. And due to it being Anti-World weapon, it is freakingly effective against Reality Mable, a magecraft that employ inner "world" onto reality

I know how it became a sword of destruction, but its original nickname was not that but a Sword of Rupture, and in lore it's told that EA participated in building, such as building a city or a country. therefore, it's stated to be a sword capable of weaving all creation.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I know how it became a sword of destruction, but its original nickname was not that but a Sword of Rupture, and in lore it's told that EA participated in building, such as building a city or a country. therefore, it's stated to be a sword capable of weaving all creation.

so, i guess the bricklayer from my neighborhood can create the world as he can constroy a wall

 

[Regidian]

Da Vinci: To begin with, even if you release the full power of a Top Servant's Noble Phantasm, it still can't completely destroy the planet.

Da Vinci: Anti-Planetary (or Anti-Star in some translations) Noble Phantasm...even if such a thing existed...According to calculations it's still not possible to destroy this planet.

Well some of recent feat show the contrary like Artemis NP described as being able to destroy the planet.

But whitout that in first the reason of why these NP can't destory the planet is because Counter force. Not because they don't have the power to do it.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

so, i guess the bricklayer from my neighborhood can create the world as he can constroy a wall

I never really said that it literally builds the world, and yes, your analogy is kinda wrong

 

[Vietthai96]

The sword itself: Star of Creation that Split the Heaven and Earth. Star of Creation refer to the sword, on how it was created along with the planet. Split the Heaven and Earth mean it split the "original world" creating heaven and earth. The creation is the result of the destruction come from the sword, the sword do not creating anything, but it act of destruction creating the "heaven" and "earth", the original, primordial earth was not called a "world" or "heaven" or "earth", just a big ball of rock, magma, etc......

So it not directly creating anything, but its act of destruction indirectly creating things

 

[GoldExPoints]

where did the you pull this thing out???

Something something the wiki, ig my interpretation of Fate lore has always been a little stilted

It's kinda like participating in world building but not literally creating the world. EA has the authority to weave all creation.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Even without all that, Gil still has 6D/8D shenanigans because of BB and Kiara anyway /hj

 

[Adrianelloxd]

Star of Creation refer to the sword, on how it was created along with the planet.

So it was created along with the world? I don't exactly know how mystery works but the basic idea is that "more mystery beats less mystery" IIRC and if it's as old as when the planet was created it'd have huge enough mystery to at least compete with the planet itself.

Although Ea wasn't able to beat Avalon in the original FSN I think but since a lot has changed since then Nasu might've allowed for an upgrade of some sort.

Would Mystery even be applicable for this discussion?

 

[Vietthai96]

So it was created along with the world? I don't exactly know how mystery works but the basic idea is that "more mystery beats less mystery" IIRC and if it's as old as when the planet was created it'd have huge enough mystery to at least compete with the planet itself.

Although Ea wasn't able to beat Avalon in the original FSN I think but since a lot has changed since then Nasu might've allowed for an upgrade of some sort.

Would Mystery even be applicable for this discussion?

Avalon and Excalibur is younger, however their power is comparable to the planet itself due to Excalibur was forged at the core of the planet to combat Sefar. Just because the weapon are older doesn't mean it automatically stronger than the younger one or the younger one can't catch up with raw power. And Iirc, Excalibur and Avalon was more famous and bigger legend than Ea which practically have little legend about it, the name Ea itself was given by Gilgamesh based on some Gods, the sword is pratically nameless

 

[PsychoWarper]

I believe at least an example of it destroying the World comes from Strange Fake when it clashed with Enuma Elish, iirc it was mentioned that the world was destroyed and remade 7 times during the scene, I knows theres more to it then that but I remember that one specifically.

 

[Vietthai96]

I believe at least an example of it destroying the World comes from Strange Fake when it clashed with Enuma Elish, iirc it was mentioned that the world was destroyed and remade 7 times during the scene, I knows theres more to it then that but I remember that one specifically.

Yes, the statement of Ea capable of destroying the World come from Strange Fake

 

[Adrianelloxd]

Yes, the statement of Ea capable of destroying the World come from Strange Fake

I read up on the TM wiki and this is what i found:

There was another statement by Enkidu where he states servant Gilgamesh's Enuma Elish "lacked the sheer magnitude it had in the age of gods".

And it's noted "their clash felt like the world was born 7 times and destroyed 7 times" by the sacred prostitute.


As the wiki says that implies both Enkidu and Gilgamesh were far stronger back then with their Enuma Elish(es) if we're going with statement above it was enough to destroy the world not to mention 7 times but not sure if that would include Avalon too but if it wasn't able to destroy Avalon back then it wouldn't be able to do so in FSF, no?

Tell me if I'm misinterpreting something.

 

[Vietthai96]

I read up on the TM wiki and this is what i found:

There was another statement by Enkidu where he states servant Gilgamesh's Enuma Elish "lacked the sheer magnitude it had in the age of gods".

And it's noted "their clash felt like the world was born 7 times and destroyed 7 times" by the sacred prostitute.


As the wiki says that implies both Enkidu and Gilgamesh were far stronger back then with their Enuma Elish(es) if we're going with statement above it was enough to destroy the world not to mention 7 times but not sure if that would include Avalon too but if it wasn't able to destroy Avalon back then it wouldn't be able to do so in FSF, no?

Tell me if I'm misinterpreting something.

Sometime Nasu love to do this. But well back in FSN Gil can't get past Avalon due to it is a conceptual defense which protect the user up to six layer of dimension. And the Avalon in FSN is the real Avalon not a Noble Phatasm that was summoned with Servant legend. But when Strange Fake released, Nasu buff up Ea to how it is now.
Back then Ea was an Anti-World weapon, capable of blowing up the World. The World made of the textures, layers. Human World is the outermost layer. The innermost layer is the actual planet itself, Ea can reveal the truth of the planet is due to it can blast the texture to reveal the true planet Earth - the innermost part, return it to its primordial state before layers and textures starting to appear

 

[Adrianelloxd]

Yeah I think going by your layer explanation the original Ea definitely fits the description of "can destroy the world". I don't know about the Servant Gil's Ea tho because of the statement saying Ea lacks the magnitude it had in the age of gods. It'd be because of a servant's limiter then? (Ea limiter?)

 

[Vietthai96]

Yeah I think going by your layer explanation the original Ea definitely fits the description of "can destroy the world". I don't know about the Servant Gil's Ea tho because of the statement saying Ea lacks the magnitude it had in the age of gods. It'd be because of a servant's limiter then? (Ea limiter?)

Servant is just a container for Heroic Spirit to appear in Holy Grail War, well actually just a copy of HS, an aspect of their legend that appear in form of a servant. Most of servant is weaker than when they was alive like Siegfried, Artoria (Saber), Heracles i think. Some servant stronger than they was alive. For someone like Gil i think he is weaker when he was alive

 

[Adrianelloxd]

I've been thinking about this a lot and we see Servant Gilgamesh be summoned in FGO Babylonia, no? After Caster Gil summons him with his body as the catalyst.

If it lacked magnitude while he was summoned as a servant in FSF, it'd make sense for this Gil to also be severely weakened meaning that Enuma Elish wasn't even as strong as living Gil's would be.

This also makes me wonder: what if Gil just doesn't want the World destroyed in any of these scenarios so he doesn't put it on World destroyer mode? /hj

In conclusion, we only see Gil's Ea go unrestrained in CCC, or is there any other case of Ea being used unrestrained?

 

[Vietthai96]

Nah, the thing about Ea and Excalibur is they got buffed over the course of series. Even Avalon also got buffed, back then the sheath is said to be an absolute defense which reject five basic elementals or something like that

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

What? It literally cannot bypass avalon.

 

[Vietthai96]

What? It literally cannot bypass avalon.

huh????

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

huh????

Ea literally failed to get past avalon.

 

[Vietthai96]

Ea literally failed to get past avalon.

No one say it can lol

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Seriously speaking , Ea is misinterpreted, and idk why this site considers it as a planet destroying drill. It does not "Create planets". Not it can destroy planets. It is an "Anti World " Np, not an Anti planet. So no, it can't really destroy the planet to answer OP. In nasuverse, there is some sort of a layer of reality that covers the earth a bit like a cloth. THAT cloth upholds the laws of physics, and is referred to as the WORLD. What Ea exactly does that it tears that cloth- and reveals the real earth underneath it, which is why it is called an "Anti world" Np.

 

[Adrianelloxd]

But that's pretty much the terminology we've used so far.

I've made points detailing how Ea is stronger or weaker depending on what Gil is being used. From there I mentioned that a servant Gil's NP Ea is much weaker than its counterpart that existed when Gil used it while alive.

The avalon we see Saber use in FSN if I'm not mistaken is the real deal and not a NP (I could be wrong). I don't know if Gil's Ea post Fate zero underwent the same process as Gil of incarnating into a "physical body" but i doubt it'd still be the real deal like Avalon.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

The Anti-Planet NP is still unable to destroy the earth tho, because it means another planet, and only creatures from extraterrestrial origin could possibly destroy the earth unfettered by the laws of Gaia. Also Nothing indicates that EA as an Anti-World NP is unable to affect the Reverse Side of The World which is where Avalon is located. Through Mahapralaya's scaling as an Anti-World NP which is able to bend reality to the Reverse Side of the World scale, so, EA should be able to do such feats considering it's a same destroyer-type Anti World NP.

There are also more higher dimensions in the Nasuverse like Cage of the Fallen, so there's no need to doubt.

 

[Adrianelloxd]

I've always doubted that the world would let a servant that could or would destroy the world be summoned so it'd always nerf them (or their NP). Ea then would be nerfed under servant Gil but the real deal Ea would be able to destroy the world. And we know that's the case with Servant containers, that they limit the Servant.

It's consistent with the mythological mystic code too if I'm not mistaken?

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Also Nothing indicates that EA as an Anti-World NP is unable to affect the Reverse Side of The World which is where Avalon is located.

Question: Is there anything that indicates it can?

Through Mahapralaya's scaling as an Anti-World NP which is able to bend reality to the Reverse Side of the World scale, so, EA should be able to do such feats considering it's a same destroyer-type Anti World NP.

Mahapralaya is literally created by combining multiple authorites. Ea is a single authority.

 

[TrueKingOfHeroes]

Question: Is there anything that indicates it can?

EA was stated capable of destroying all creation and all things not without reason lol.

Mahapralaya is literally created by combining multiple authorites. Ea is a single authority.

It doesn't really matter, Authority is more about power scaling like who can beat this, and who can beat that, that's how it works. what I mean is about the range, which we can equalize through the same type of NP like how the Type-Moon wiki and this wiki treat it.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

EA was stated capable of destroying all creation and all things not without reason lol.

And yet it cannot get past avalon. Also, this.

It doesn't really matter, Authority is more about power scaling like who can beat this, and who can beat that, that's how it works. what I mean is about the range, which we can equalize through the same type of NP like how the Type-Moon wiki and this wiki treat it.

..Did not understand. Authority is a power given to high ranking planetary entities by gaia. Also, i would like to ask again, why do we assume "authority resist authority" anyway?

 

[Regidian]

And yet it cannot get past avalon. Also, this.

What.....? Authority is a power given to high ranking planetary entities by gaia. Also, i would like to ask again, why do we assume "authority resist authority" anyway?

For last it's because it was show that authority allow to resist authority and even bypass MR high grade.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

For last it's because it was show that authority allow to resist authority and even bypass MR high grade.

Where? Is it directly stated that authority users can resist authority?

 

[Adrianelloxd]

And yet it cannot get past avalon. Also, this.

?? None of us are arguing that Ea can destroy everything in the Nasuverse tho, and also isn't Genesis referring to the creation of the world?? So the post literally says Ea can bring the world back to its primordial stage yes, we know this. I don't know why the root is brought into this.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

EA was stated capable of destroying all creation and all things not without reason lol.

?? None of us are arguing that Ea can destroy everything in the Nasuverse tho, and also isn't Genesis referring to the creation of the world?? So the post literally says Ea can bring the world back to its primordial stage yes, we know this. I don't know why the root is brought into this.

.