Busoshoku Haki Huge Addition

[Axxtentacle]

Haki is not able to cancel DF and much less EXTERNAL powers produced by them, it just makes the body of some users tangible.

Yet, somehow, people with powerful enough Haki can resist an attack that’s durability negging spatial manipulation.

This argument is the equivalent of saying “no it isn’t”

 

[Karlsefni]

They're the only ones who wanted to.
All because people haven't shown it doesn't mean that they can't do it.
Argument from ignorance.

So half of the verse has Haoshoku because they didn't show it, but doesn't that mean they can't have it?

 

[Axxtentacle]

Nice false equivalency, the verse literally says anyone can learn observation and armament, but only a select few have Haoshoku.

 

[Karlsefni]

Yet, somehow, people with powerful enough Haki can resist an attack that’s durability negging spatial manipulation.

This argument is the equivalent of saying “no it isn’t”

From the moment that the minimum requirement not to be cut is "to have a powerful haki", the spatial manipulation DOES NOT DENY DURABILITY, it only cuts what is "weak" and less hard.

 

[KingTempest]

So half of the verse has Haoshoku because they didn't show it, but doesn't that mean they can't have it?

Large difference.
Not showing a specific application of a technique ≠ not showing having the technique at all.
False equivalency at it's finest.

 

[Kurifesilon]

Idk how content from other wikis are treated here but here is a quote drom the ope ope no mi page on One piece Wiki.
“In addition, Smoker also strongly insinuated that sufficient proficiency with Haki may offer some level of resistance to the fruit's effects. But in spite of this, Law was able to cut Vergo in half even after the Marine Vice-Admiral invoked Busoshoku Haki throughout the entirety of his body, implying that Law's skill has surpassed Vergo's.[12] In support of Smoker's insinuation, Law was unable to cut through Doflamingo's usage of Busoshoku Haki, with the latter catching the former's sword and stopping Law's attack despite being inside of Law's ROOM.[16]”

Doffy stopped law’s slash with his armament haki INSIDE his room, if this is not enough proof that haki resists df abilities, idk what is...

I believe Doflamingo’s speculation proves that with a stronger haki, law’s spatial manipulation can be negated.
Since he has been searching and studying law’s fruit for a long time to achieve his own goal his speculation has enough credibility imo.

If the stronger the user’s haki is, the more he resists Law’s Df, then the opposite can also be applied right? (The stronger Law’s haki is, the less law’s opponents resist his df)

We do have reasons to think Haki users would be safe from a non-DF elemental attack. Because what’s the difference?

If you can prove that you have even argued once about "the additional properties of haki", I will publicly apologize for being born to everyone on that topic, and I will never return to this wiki.

If this is me not sharing my point of view on "the additional properties of haki" then feel free to enlighten me with your sacred wisdom.

Also there is not need to apologize and leave the wiki, it's not like you did anything evil or wrong, i just feel ike you don't pay attention to arguments that go against your headcannon.

 

[KingTempest]

From the moment that the minimum requirement not to be cut is "to have a powerful haki", the spatial manipulation DOES NOT DENY DURABILITY, it only cuts what is "weak" and less hard.

Please make a separate CRT on Ope Ope not defying dura instead of filling up the Haki thread on dura neg or not.

 

[Karlsefni]

And where was it mentioned or shown that tribal haki is something common?

 

[Karlsefni]

If this is me not sharing my point of view on "the additional properties of haki" then feel free to enlighten me with your sacred wisdom.

It has yet to prove anything about the "additional super capacity of Busoshoku".

Please make a separate CRT on Ope Ope not defying dura instead of filling up the Haki thread on dura neg or not.

And it's not even difficult.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Why are you treating it like it’s not armament haki? Why are you pushing your complete headcanon like it’s objective fact in the manga?

From the moment that the minimum requirement not to be cut is "to have a powerful haki", the spatial manipulation DOES NOT DENY DURABILITY, it only cuts what is "weak" and less hard.

Ok. Prove that, without using armament haki, or else you’re using your same circular reasoning. Give me consistent examples of someone with raw physical stats negating it.

 

[KingTempest]

And where was it mentioned or shown that tribal haki is something common?

We don't even have canon confirmation of "tribal haki", it's just haki that looks different in pattern.

We get 3 different types of Haki.
Regular, Advanced, Broken.

We don't get "tribal haki buffs".

Enough with the headcanon, your "spacial manip blocked by dura" isn't getting accepted in this thread, go make a different thread if you want that to happen.

 

[KingTempest]

What additions do we all agree on so I can put (accepted) in the OP. We're already past 200 messages, it'll be a pain in the ass to search for "declined" and "accepted".

 

[Kurifesilon]

If you can prove that you have even argued once about "the additional properties of haki",

You didn't ask me to prove that I proved anything, you asked if I argued about it, which I did. There is not need to apologize though, you did nothing wrong, at least not to me.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Pretty sure Spatial Manip is the only one is question right now...? I’m not sure.

 

[Karlsefni]

I have already refuted heat resistance and spatial manipulation. For the rest ... you children can choose to choose. I only agree with resistance to denial of durability.

 

[Damage3245]

The Poison & Paralysis is something I believe needs removing. Likewise for Fire Resistance.

 

[KingTempest]

Pretty sure Spatial Manip is the only one is question right now...? I’m not sure.

The ones related to the poison were argued over in the first page, but it shut down after I said this

The point is that when the poison touched his haki, it crumbled.
That did not happen with Doffy's strings, Kata's hands, none of that.

Karlsefni's the only one who had an issue with regeneration negation, but they didn't reply after I said this

Please prove that there is some other energy at work that stops him from regenerating.

The heat one is null and void, and the heat also falls under resistance to all DFs via Oven's fruit, so I'm assuming that is out. But if someone has an issue, let me know.

Resistance to Intangibility Negation and Resistance Negation is good, I'm assuming.

@XDragnoir had an issue with "Resistance to All Elements that fall under the Logia Category"

Extras are good.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I have already refuted heat resistance and spatial manipulation. For the rest ... you children can choose to choose. I only agree with resistance to denial of durability.

I don’t care about your refutes if your refutes are unbacked and your claims are unproven.

Ok. Prove that, without using armament haki, or else you’re using your same circular reasoning. Give me consistent examples of someone with raw physical stats negating it.

Don’t ignore this.

 

[Damage3245]

I also object to the "Resistance to all elements covered by Devil Fruits". It's too speculative. Haki being able to negate some aspects of Devil Fruits (such as Logia intangibility) is not a blanket statement that Haki can resist all effects of all Devil Fruits.

 

[KingTempest]

The Poison & Paralysis is something I believe needs removing. Likewise for Fire Resistance.

Alright, but the fire res would fall under the logia resistances too.

I also object to the "Resistance to all elements covered by Devil Fruits". It's too speculative. Haki being able to negate some aspects of Devil Fruits (such as Logia intangibility) is not a blanket statement that Haki can resist all effects of all Devil Fruits.

The elements portion fell under Logias, I apologize for making it not clear enough.

It's based off of Luffy still touching the logia body even when he hits logias (proven when his arms got affected by Shinokuni when he hit Caesar), and the haki doesn't burn or freeze or anything when hitting the average logia.

 

[Damage3245]

It's based off of Luffy still touching the logia body even when he hits logias (proven when his arms got affected by Shinokuni when he hit Caesar)

I don't understand what you mean. All Haki users who hit Logia users can touch Logia users.

and the haki doesn't burn or freeze or anything when hitting the average logia.

Why would it in the first place? If we see the Invisible Woman use a forcefield to block a fireball, I don't think we'd give her Resistance to Fire. This is just one of those common sense things.

 

[Kurifesilon]

I agree with most these except for healing negation and , I remember that I disagreed due to Marco's different responses when it comes to healing based on the amount of damage he takes ( big damage=healing, small damage=no healing at all) and damage makes sense.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't understand what you mean. All Haki users who hit Logia users can touch Logia users.

I'm talking about touching their element as well, not just their "real body". They're still interacting with their elements

Why would it in the first place? If we see the Invisible Woman use a forcefield to block a fireball, I don't think we'd give her Resistance to Fire. This is just one of those common sense things.

I guess this makes sense.

So in a versus thread we can argue Buso as a forcefield against elemental abilities, correct?

 

[KingTempest]

I agree with most these except for healing negation and , I remember that I disagreed due to Marco's different responses when it comes to healing based on the amount of damage he takes ( big damage=healing, small damage=no healing at all) and damage makes sense.

I'd take a punch from Garp that sends me flying as big damage.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Kind of looks bad that the main person arguing against us, we got banned, but it would’ve happened anyway.

But either way it was still justified.

The current topic is on elemental stuff, correct?

 

[KingTempest]

Correct. The elemental stuff is on the chopping block because of the conflicting forcefield creation.

 

[Kurifesilon]

I'd take a punch from Garp that sends me flying as big damage.

Wouldn't call a small bruise on the face as big damage. Garp prob had to take it easy on him lol.

 

[KingTempest]

Wouldn't call a small bruise on the face as big damage. Garp prob had to take it easy on him lol.

I'd take a "Nuuuei" as some serious.

What sound is that

 

[KingTempest]

@Damage3245, which ones in the OP do you think are alright?

 

[Kurifesilon]

I also find it hard to believe that Resistance to Intangibility Negation is a thing for logias. Was Akainu able to accomplish that because of a higher level of haki or because the magu magu no mi is a stronger logia than an average one?

 

[KingTempest]

I also find it hard to believe that Resistance to Intangibility Negation is a thing for logias. Was Akainu able to accomplish that because of a higher level of haki or because the magu magu no mi is a stronger logia than an average one?

Strength of Logias were never something that negated Haki from hitting them.
Akainu has haki, Marco and Vista have Haki. They used Haki on him and he didn't go intangible. Safest thing to say is that his haki negated taking him out of his body changed state, just like Luffy and Doffy.

 

[Damage3245]

Akainu has haki, Marco and Vista have Haki. They used Haki on him and he didn't go intangible. Safest thing to say is that his haki negated taking him out of his body changed state, just like Luffy and Doffy.

While I don't deny that is a strong possibility, it's also been shown that Logia's (or Special Paramecia's) can shapeshift their body out of the way of attacks. Like Aokiji against Whitebeard, or Katakuri against Luffy.

So it's also a possibility that Akainu shapeshifted his bodyparts out of the way of their Haki strikes.

 

[KingTempest]

While I don't deny that is a strong possibility, it's also been shown that Logia's (or Special Paramecia's) can shapeshift their body out of the way of attacks. Like Aokiji against Whitebeard, or Katakuri against Luffy.

So it's also a possibility that Akainu shapeshifted his bodyparts out of the way of their Haki strikes.

I sent someone who explained why that wasn't the case in the OP.

Marco & Vista for example failed to cut Akainu by forcing his body to solidity, therefore, their Armament Haki is not strong enough to hack through Akainu's DF because it has a greater level of resistance to Armament Haki and conversely, their Haki isn't strong enough to fully treat his body like solid.

^ Exhibit: Chapter 574.

Pay attention to the "WHAM" SFX, it indicates impact or blows that landed against a surface as "these examples" show. This is to repudiate the idea that Akainu created a gap for the attacks to miss him. Attacks that do not land on anything but air don't show up as "WHAM", but "WHOOM" or "WHOOSH" that indicate cutting through air at high speeds.

Whitebeard on the other hand had no issues hurt Akainu, why? because Whitebeard's Haki is at the very highest level, the Magu Magu no Mi's level of resistance is exceeded by Whitebeard's Armament's strength, consequently, he's able to treat his body as a solid/tangible object.

^ Exhibition: Chapter 575.

 

[Axxtentacle]

We can give “possibly”s for resistances, correct?

 

[KingTempest]

We can give “possibly”s for resistances, correct?

We can but there's no point of putting a possibly when this is the only explanation.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Ah. Ok.

 

[Kurifesilon]

Should the resistances to logia elements get accepted, How would we distribute the resistances throughout the verse without making half the verse and its the profiles oversaturated with resistances?

 

[KingTempest]

Should the resistances to logia elements get accepted, How would we distribute the resistances throughout the verse without making half the verse and its the profiles oversaturated with resistances?

Put them on the Haki page.

 

[LordGinSama]

Should the resistances to logia elements get accepted, How would we distribute the resistances throughout the verse without making half the verse and its the profiles oversaturated with resistances?

Add them to the Haki page.

 

[Axxtentacle]

We have a Haki page? I was unaware.