One Piece: Busoshoku Haki Potency and Buso Layers Scaling

[WrongIdea21]

We have to remember that for Haki scaling it must be Haki vs Haki, not Haki vs DF from the start. DF vs Haki is just a Support, I guess.

 

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Disagree... You are saying Marco who could touch kizaru, couldn't touch akainu who could be touched by whitebeard... Has stronger haki than whitebeard...

That makes no sense... Basically Kizaru < Marco < Whitebeard < Akainu... When there's shown blunt evidence that Marco couldn't touch akainu yet whitebeard could

The feat you are talking about is either whitebeard didn't use haki or has been using too much haki and is extremely injured, making it weaker..

Kizaru says Marco's kick was pretty effective (it wasn't in reference to Marco not being harmed earlier by the lasers due to Regeneration) and Marco calls him out as a liar, Kizaru is then thrown to the ground in Logia form and walks out unharmed.

To me that suggests he couldn't harm him through his Logia form and like Marco Vs Akainu or WB Vs Kizaru he was reduced to Logia form upon being hit.

Whitebeard used haki against Akainu and Aokiji without issues before and after this feat, him being injured isn't a factor for his buso usage as proven with Akainu.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Kizaru says Marco's kick was pretty effective (it wasn't in reference to Marco not being harmed earlier by the lasers due to Regeneration) and Marco calls him out as a liar, Kizaru is then thrown to the ground in Logia form and walks out unharmed.

And? Marco still was able to touch him via haki.... It's stated even in databooks

To me that suggests he couldn't harm him through his Logia form and like Marco Vs Akainu or WB Vs Kizaru he was reduced to Logia form upon being hit.

Hmm? And same could be said for kizaru... He's lasers couldn't damage Marco, which if I remember correctly it's stated he uses haki with them or something

Plus harming doesn't matter... That's dura and ap, not haki... Marco could touch kizaru

Whitebeard used haki against Akainu and Aokiji without issues before and after this feat, him being injured isn't a factor for his buso usage as proven with Akainu.

Completely different feats of whitebeard... Your comparing a furious whitebeard who is going all out (using alot of haki) to a whitebeard casually fighting the admirals so that the others can bring ace to safety... Basically a distraction kind of

 

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And? Marco still was able to touch him via haki.... It's stated even in databooks

He touched him and it wasn't effective at all, reducing him still to a Logia state unharmed.

Hmm? And same could be said for kizaru... He's lasers couldn't damage Marco, which if I remember correctly it's stated he uses haki with them or something

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

Completely different feats of whitebeard... Your comparing a furious whitebeard who is going all out (using alot of haki) to a whitebeard casually fighting the admirals so that the others can bring ace to safety... Basically a distraction kind of

He has to be furious to use Buso usage properly? When was this ever implied or stated anywhere. Against both Aokiji and Akainu he had no issue using buso against the logia's why would he struggle to use it here.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He has to be furious to use Buso usage properly? When was this ever implied or stated anywhere. Against both Aokiji and Akainu he had no issue using buso against the logia's why would he struggle to use it here.

There are different levels in how much haki you use... It's literally stated, shown and is accepted on the haki page, him being furious is evidence of him going serious/all out in that moment which he'll use much more haki... In marineford we don't know if they are using the invisible hardening or visible hardening which is why your argument doesn't really work when considering all contexts to me

He touched him and it wasn't effective at all, reducing him still to a Logia state unharmed.

What are you talking about? BRO MARCO COULD TOUCH KIZARU.... THAT'S A HAKI FEAT, WGAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HAKI... EVEN THE VIVRECARD OR DATABOOK SHOW THAT FEAT TO HYPE MARCOS HAKI

Not sure what point you're trying to make here.

That they have equal amounts of haki... Like they are relative in terms of haki... Marco and Akainu does not, Marco was going all out because of trying to defend ace and luffy and couldn't touch akainu.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I substitute kingtempest

I don't like debating and I can't debate... (manipulate) kingtempest knows how and probably understands what I'm saying or trying to say

 

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There are different levels in how much haki you use... It's literally stated, shown and is accepted on the haki page, him being furious is evidence of him going serious/all out in that moment which he'll use much more haki... In marineford we don't know if they are using the invisible hardening or visible hardening which is why your argument doesn't really work when considering all contexts to me

So you're claiming he had a free hit on one of the admirals and choose to do no damage with said hit despite not doing that against the other two admirals, all because of "seriousness" despite being serious in all instances.

That they have equal amounts of haki... Like they are relative in terms of haki... Marco and Akainu does not, Marco was going all out because of trying to defend ace and luffy and couldn't touch akainu.

Alright I'm gonna need to ask this, what's the evidence that Marco couldn't touch Akainu's real body?

Is it because Akainu was unharmed from the hit despite his Logia body being shown to be deformed from the attacks? Because if so the same happened with Aokiji when he was hit by Jozu only that his actual body was harmed when he started bleeding.

Plus harming doesn't matter... That's dura and ap, not haki... Marco could touch kizaru

Like you said harming doesn't matter as that relates to durability and not Haki.

Just trying to get an understanding on what the justification is for Logia's ignoring haki user comes from.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So you're claiming he had a free hit on one of the admirals and choose to do no damage with said hit despite not doing that against the other two admirals, all because of "seriousness" despite being serious in all instances.

You talking about this feat right?

Where he has trouble even standing and has been using alot of haki before this

And you expect him to still overpower kizaru or something? He was there to distract kizaru... From going to luffy and I remember even the anime showing kizaru dodging whitebeards attack

Alright I'm gonna need to ask this, what's the evidence that Marco couldn't touch Akainu's real body?

Weaker haki which is implied he used from akainu

Is it because Akainu was unharmed from the hit despite his Logia body being shown to be deformed from the attacks? Because if so the same happened with Aokiji when he was hit by Jozu only that his actual body was harmed when he started bleeding.

Haki solidifys a part of logias body to hit their true body... Even if kizaru is in full light form, Marco will touch him... The same way Rayleigh did to his sword

Like you said harming doesn't matter as that relates to durability and not Haki.

Yee

Just trying to get an understanding on what the justification is for Logia's ignoring haki user comes from.

From a weird feat you brought up of whitebeard not being able to touch kizaru when he's barley able to stand and has been using haki before this and was districting kizaru

 

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And you expect him to still overpower kizaru or something? He was there to distract kizaru... From going to luffy and I remember even the anime showing kizaru dodging whitebeards attack

I expect him to use Buso to touch the logia's true body as that's what he has shown to do in every other instance.

Anime and Manga differ then, we see the glaive cut into Kizaru and then pages later we see Kizaru reform himself.

Weaker haki which is implied he used from akainu

I don't see the proof for it, if anything Akainu calling the irritating for using Haki suggests to me that they can harm him somewhat otherwise they wouldn't irritate him if they couldn't bypass his Logia body with their haki.

Haki solidifys a part of logias body to hit their true body... Even if kizaru is in full light form, Marco will touch him... The same way Rayleigh did to his sword

Not sure if that's how it worked pre-timeskip. I say this as Aokiji was harmed by Jozu's haki and his entire Logia body crumbled from the attack only to reform with only a small bit of blood coming from his mouth. With Kizaru and Rayleigh he cuts Kizaru as he's in Logia form and the remaining part of him is shown with just a small cut on his cheek. Against Marco Kizaru was kicked reduced to his Logia form but relatively unhurt.

It seems haki pre-timeskip didn't solidify their logia form on impact it only harmed their true bodies assuming they could harm them.

Yee

So it could just be due to Akainu being more durable than the two hits used against him, similar to Kizaru.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Against Marco Kizaru was kicked reduced to his Logia form but relatively unhurt.

Because ap and dura...

It seems haki pre-timeskip didn't solidify their logia form on impact it only harmed their true bodies assuming they could harm them.

Hmmmmmmmm?????

Rayleigh even explained that he did pre timeskip to kizaru

I really don't understand how you thinking with haki, you can be in full logia and only where the haki is touching is where the element will solidify so that you can harm them... What happens after doesn't matter


Solidified aokiji's head (bottom left)

Does damage then after the impact gets broken to alot of pieces

... Like I really don't understand what you are trying to say at all

 

[WrongIdea21]

Kizaru Block Marco's Blunt attack+ Haki doesn't harm him also WB using blunt attack with Haki doesn't Harm him. It's not Haki feats for Kizaru it's Durability feats.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

So it could just be due to Akainu being more durable than the two hits used against him, similar to Kizaru.

One is proof of haki usage and still couldn't be solidified and the other is a random whitebeard attack where he can barely stand, distracting kizaru

 

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Because ap and dura...

Not denying this.

Hmmmmmmm?????

Yes this instance of Rayleigh hitting Kizaru he was still reduced to his Logia form on impact (on his leg), I'm not claiming he's not touching him with haki only that pre-timeskip Logia users still turn into their Logia form on impact from haki users hitting them despite taking damage from it.

Solidified aokiji's head (bottom left)

Does damage then after the impact gets broken to alot of pieces

... Like I really don't understand what you are trying to say at all

His entire body was still reduced and damaged more severely in his Logia form (including hit) upon impact, the reformed to show the damage to his head.

My point is there is no support for Haki being too weak to effect Logia users like Akainu, he calls Marco & Vista irritating for being able to use haki (attack his true body) but doesn't take visible damage (this would be assumed as Akainu's durability).

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yes this instance of Rayleigh hitting Kizaru he was still reduced to his Logia form on impact (on his leg), I'm not claiming he's not touching him with haki only that pre-timeskip Logia users still turn into their Logia form on impact from haki users hitting them despite taking damage from it.

Again... Nothing to do with haki, thats them getting hit from the impact thats has solidified which then the other parts of the body/element gets released or destroyed

His entire body was still reduced and damaged more severely in his Logia form (including hit) upon impact, the reformed to show the damage to his head.

The above answered this... Like where are you getting this from? You have like made something very differently how logia and haki works

My point is there is no support for Haki being too weak to effect Logia users like Akainu, he calls Marco & Vista irritating for being able to use haki (attack his true body) but doesn't take visible damage (this would be assumed as Akainu's durability).

Bro... Marco and Vista NEEDS to solidify his element to hit akainu... Bro THAT'S HOW HAKI WORKS... IT NEEDS TO SOLIDIFY FOR THEM TO HIT THE BODY UNDER THE ELEMENT BODY, if their haki is too weak then it won't solidify

he calls Marco & Vista irritating for being able to use haki (attack his true body)

Yee because then he would need to use his own haki to mitigate those attacks... If akainu didn't have haki he would get physically hit

 

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Again... Nothing to do with haki, thats them getting hit from the impact thats has solidified which then the other parts of the body/element gets released or destroyed

They get hit and even when solidified they turn into their logia state in response to the hit; we see this with Kizaru and Aokiji.

Bro... Marco and Vista NEEDS to solidify his element to hit akainu... Bro THAT'S HOW HAKI WORKS... IT NEEDS TO SOLIDIFY FOR THEM TO HIT THE BODY UNDER THE ELEMENT BODY, if their haki is too weak then it won't solidify

They hit him, he knew they were haki users by them hitting him, what proof is there that they didn't solidify him? Because he was still in Logia form? Because that's not proof as both Kizaru and Aokiji were reduced to their Logia form on impact by Haki users.

Yee because then he would need to use his own haki to mitigate those attacks... If akainu didn't have haki he would get physically hit

Ok first of all, this isn't even a proven concept. The entire concept starts and ends with this once instance with Akainu, it's never been stated or shown anywhere else that Logia's act like this and the assumption that they do only comes from here.

Secondly, your point doesn't prove how haki users irritate Akainu. He does have haki and he learned that they had haki upon them hitting him, which he called irritating. The most simple assumption for why they would be irritating is the most basic usage of Haki which is effecting a Logia's true body.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Bro... I'm not going to waste my time debating and trying to make you lose an argument or some bs like that....

If your mindset is just to disagree then no matter how much sense it makes, no matter how much evidence or proof I show it will be nearly impossible.... Idk why so many people here have that disagree mindset or winning or losing mindset when commenting to each other...

I listen and try to always understand where the other person is coming from, if you are only there to debate and disagree until that person makes a good well written book why what he's saying is right just for you which then only prolongs/delays the thread and my time, then I'll just leave and hopefully someone else can explain

Ok first of all, this isn't even a proven concept.

It is... Directly via luffy... Haki can negate/touch luffy's true body that isn't rubber... Him using his haki against another haki can make it so that it is still rubber/keeping his devil fruit ability via having stronger haki then the other haki user

They get hit and even when solidified they turn into their logia state in response to the hit; we see this with Kizaru and Aokiji.

Has nothing to do with haki what happens after they are hit

They hit him, he knew they were haki users by them hitting him, what proof is there that they didn't solidify him? Because he was still in Logia form?

Because it literally went through his magma

Secondly, your point doesn't prove how haki users irritate Akainu. He does have haki and he learned that they had haki upon them hitting him, which he called irritating. The most simple assumption for why they would be irritating is the most basic usage of Haki which is effecting a Logia's true body.

Yee... Because it is the most effective methods of battling logias... If you are invincible and there's an ability that can make you uninvincible, no shit it would be irritating.., why the f are we even debating about how akainu feels... You are bring this point to prove your point yet has nothing to do with anything besides what he thinks

 

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Has nothing to do with haki what happens after they are hit

Ok? So...

Because it literally went through his magma

Jozu literally went through Aokiji's Ice, the difference being Aokiji is a solid and shatters while Akainu is fluid and retains shape.

Rayleigh also cut straight through Kizaru, but again he was still hurt with a cut on his cheek.

Them going through his magma isn't indicative of Haki having no effect considering the same happened to his peers but they were damaged.

... Because it is the most effective methods of battling logias... If you are invincible and there's an ability that can make you uninvincible, no shit it would be irritating..,

Right, so their Haki has an effect on him.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Jozu literally went through Aokiji's Ice, the difference being Aokiji is a solid and shatters while Akainu is fluid and retains shape.

Rayleigh also cut straight through Kizaru, but again he was still hurt with a cut on his cheek.

Them going through his magma isn't indicative of Haki having no effect considering the same happened to his peers but they were damaged.

COMPLETELY different... Rayleigh and jozu's hits didn't went through their element... The physically hit it which is why they got hurt...

Bro READ what Rayleigh said... THEY HAVE TO SOLIDIFY THE ELEMENT TO HURT/TOUCH THEIR TRUE BODY.... HOW ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS... IT IS SHOWN PROOF THAT VISTA AND MARCO COULDN'T SOLIDIFY AKAINU AND INSTEAD WENT THROUGH THE PART THEY HIT

You can literally see aokiji physically/solidly get hit and then after gets flown away, destroyed in alot of pieces AFTER the impact

Here we can literally see kizaru get cut...

Without no elements shown

These literally disproves what you are saying

 

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You can literally see aokiji physically/solidly get hit and then after gets flown away, destroyed in alot of pieces AFTER the impact

There is quite literally only one panel showing Aokiji getting hit here and it's him broken into pieces.

Without no elements shown

He's midway through his element, it gets cut off by Rayleigh and after which he's still midway through his element. The damage of the actual hit being on his cheek, not him being cut in half.

INSTEAD WENT THROUGH THE PART THEY HIT

The same exact thing happened with Aokiji and Kizaru.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

There is quite literally only one panel showing Aokiji getting hit here and it's him broken into pieces.

That's him AFTER getting hit

He's midway through his element, it gets cut off by Rayleigh and after which he's still midway through his element. The damage of the actual hit being on his cheek, not him being cut in half.

Kizaru never got cut in half what are you talking about... Kizaru got cut from the clash btw... Where his only using his element as a sword

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The same exact thing happened with Aokiji and Kizaru.

Literally no... You have no proof of that

 

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That's him AFTER getting hit

There is quite literally only one panel showing him getting hit, and it's his body breaking In half from the impact.

I don't know what panel you think is showing him get hit because that's literally the only one.

Kizaru never got cut in half what are you talking about... Kizaru got cut from the clash btw... Where his only using his element as a sword

Rayleigh cut through his Logia form as it was traveling towards Usopp, that literally happened.

Kizaru didn't get cut from the clash, Rayleigh's never cut Kizaru's face in the clash. They matched swords that's all.

Literally no... You have no proof of that

In both instances their Logia forms were broken completely through like Akainu's magma, difference is they showed damage afterwards.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Jozu made aokiji fly away... If it went trough aokiji it would be like this

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Rayleigh cut through his Logia form as it was traveling towards Usopp, that literally happened.

Kizaru didn't get cut from the clash, Rayleigh's never cut Kizaru's face in the clash. They matched swords that's all.

Manga says no, anime says no... Raylaigh did not touch kizaru when kizaru was traveling in his light path... Both manga and anime show him cut the path way for kizaru

Both the anime and manga show him getting cut after the clash

In both instances their Logia forms were broken completely through like Akainu's magma, difference is they showed damage afterwards.

No.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

There's no way it takes this long to understand the feats

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

You go research... I'm going to go play games, bye

 

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Manga says no, anime says no... Raylaigh did not touch kizaru when kizaru was traveling in his light path... Both manga and anime show him cut the path way for kizaru

Both the anime and manga show him getting cut after the clash

See I just checked the anime and that's not the case, rayleigh cut through the light path and it was never shown that Kizaru got cut during their clash.

Jozu made aokiji fly away... If it went trough aokiji it would be like this

Flying away isn't an indicator, Luffy in his fight with Aokiji in water 7 made him fly away, Robin broke him apart similar to Jozu. His Logia bodies breaks on impact there isn't any specific way of it doing so.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

See I just checked the anime and that's not the case, rayleigh cut through the light path and it was never shown that Kizaru got cut during their clash.

W....t....f

Flying away isn't an indicator, Luffy in his fight with Aokiji in water 7 made him fly away, Robin broke him apart similar to Jozu. His Logia bodies breaks on impact there isn't any specific way of it doing so.

Nitpick or something... This is a solid logia... So your point of him being hit while being not being solidified trough haki or what ever the f you said how he got damaged, can't be compared to intangible logias like akainu

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'm not responding anymore... Because the statements you are making is making me insanely mad and LITERALLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AND YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO LOSE OR SOMETHING... YOU ARE BRINGING NEW SHIT ALWAYS TO EITHER COUNTER OR PROVE TO DISPROVE ME.... BYEEEEE

 

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W....t....f

I don't know what version of the anime you watched but both the manga and anime show Rayleigh cutting through Kizaru's logia form as it's moving as light towards usopp.

As for his cheek getting cut in the clash, that's not shown in the anime or manga. The only time Rayleigh cut Kizaru was here ^.

Nitpick or something... This is a solid logia... So your point of him being hit while being not being solidified trough haki or what ever the f you said how he got damaged, can't be compared to intangible logias like akainu

I don't even know what you're trying to say here tbh

I'm not responding anymore... Because the statements you are making is making me insanely mad and LITERALLY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE AND YOU JUST DON'T WANT TO LOSE OR SOMETHING... YOU ARE BRINGING NEW SHIT ALWAYS TO EITHER COUNTER OR PROVE TO DISPROVE ME.... BYEEEEE

Take a break then or drop the debate, I don't know why you're getting mad over me responding to your arguments against my arguments.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Funny

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

 

[KingTempest]

Since this has been accepted, I'll need the Haki page open to add this

Extra Resistance​

Busoshoku Haki should have Limited Resistance to Bladed and Blunt Weaponry, as many users have shown to fend off blades with their bare limbs.

Blades in One Piece are shown to hurt damn near everybody. Even the weakest blade can scratch the strongest man, yet Haki users shatter blades that even touch them.

They can be able of harming, but it's rare for a haki user to fall under that.

Of course, someone vastly superior would chop their limbs off, which is why it's limited. It's meant for people around your level, you won't get cuts and such in that scenario.

 

[KingTempest]

Since this has been accepted, I'll need the Haki page open to add this

Bump

 

[Elizhaa]

Bump

I unlocked the page @KingTempest .

 

[Elizhaa]

Since the changes look applied, I locked the page, and I will locked the thread.