BIGGEST Tokyo Revengers Dowgrade Calculations Heheh

[Second22]

The guy who says "that was fast" is around the guy who screams Mikey speed wise, and he got utterly destroyed. By "that was fast" he doesn't just mean somewhat fast, but really really fast.

And that had nothing to do with not reacting in time when he moved towards Mikey.

 

[CorbinMLG]

And that had nothing to do with not reacting in time when he moved towards Mikey.

There shouldn't be a problem with the calculation since he literally blitzed a character who already scales to Subsonic.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

It's not even a Blitz. Please read the entire thread to the end.

Chifuyu was literally sweating out of being surprised/terrified seeing how fast Izana was, what would indicate that he would be able to block the kick like Mikey did? Also he got blitzed by Kakucho who was moving around similar distance (just slightly lower than Izana's movement), who is greatly inferior to Izana.

Where is Draken?

Made a mistake there, I fixed it, the distance was assumed that 1m, I'm not sure about it though, but if we were to strictly look at the panels, the gun was probably shot first.

Once again, we didn't see him start moving at any point. What you're saying is only speculation. The gun had already been fired before that. He didn't need to move from 7 meters away.

I can say the same thing about you, here we don't see Izana running before the shot, so we should go with the most logical interpretation.

 

[Second22]

When I was talking to @RoggerReggor.

Tbh, I'm not very interested in the conversation you're having with RoggerReggor, so I'm sorry.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Tbh, I'm not very interested in the conversation you're having with RoggerReggor, so I'm sorry.

Well you will have to read it if you want to continue arguing about the Izana saving Kakucho calculation.

 

[Second22]

I can say the same thing about you, here we don't see Izana running before the shot, so we should go with the most logical interpretation.

It's normal to evaluate possible calculations and use them conservatively. It's not necessary to use high values.

Chifuyu was literally sweating out of being surprised/terrified seeing how fast Izana was, what would indicate that he would be able to block the kick like Mikey did? Also he got blitzed by Kakucho who was moving around similar distance (just slightly lower than Izana's movement), who is greatly inferior to Izana.

The distances are very different, just because they say it's very fast doesn't mean they won't react at all when they are at a distance like Mikey.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

It's natural that he had to move to protect Takemitchi. The movement we see in picture 2 is when he fired the gun, not when Draken moved to block the bullet. From the picture, we can interpret it as Draken moving in to block the bullet, and then the gun was fired. After that, Draken swept the gun away, and it wasn't necessary for him to move under the frame when the bullet was fired.

No, it's literally not, the kanjis are drawn differently, the first 3 kanjis next to the goon's panel are the "bang" sound effect, the kanji in the other panel is not not "bang", but "thud".
Here's another translated version.

 

[Second22]

No, it's literally not, the kanjis are drawn differently, the first 3 kanjis next to the goon's panel are the "bang" sound effect, the kanji in the other panel is not not "bang", but "thud".
Here's another translated version.

Draken still needs to move a lot before the gun is shot. Do you think that within a time frame of just 0.00078 seconds, the gun can be fired three times? Even the fastest gun in the world cannot do that. Do you really think that a regular handgun can be fired three times before Draken moves in to block it? That's not reasonable at all.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Because the sight of the gun being shot works as visual stimuli that triggered it. If it would have been a matter of his body just comprehending the fact that Kakucho would die he could have moved far sooner. He could have even stopped Kakucho from running to begin with.

Sight of the gun being short works as a visual stimulus? As someone who has studied enough biology, I can say that there are many types of stimuli. One among them is auditory stimuli. Tokyo Revengers is originally a Japanese manga. Now, Kisaki even said "Die" before shooting. "Die" in Japanese is mostly used as "Shiine", which literally has two syllables. Through speech point of view, stress upon each syllable can be 8 centiseconds or 0.08 seconds, there are two, so it would be 0.16 seconds. The time frame currently taken is literally 2.72716263388/381 = 0.00715790718 seconds, which is a lot more than that. Now don't tell me that auditory stimuli don't work. It does, pretty well. The word "Die" is more than enough to make you understand that your ally is going to die soon.

He wasn't even less than a meter away from Kisaki, you started this out hypothetically, don't know what proof you want. Izana being able to do that if not for his body moving on its own isn't even debatable because he can blitz Kisaki easily. The psychological things I'm talking about are literally what happening though, not sure what your problem is with them either. Consciously he views Kakucho as a servant and nothing more, someone who he doesn't care about at all. His true feelings are completely different on the other hand, but he isn't aware of them and he doesn't recognize them. His body follows his true feelings and makes him move instinctually after being triggered by the gun shot. The goal of his body was just to save Kakucho no matter what, so he jumped in front of him and pushed him away, even if it resulted in injuring himself.

"He can blitz Kisaki easily" doesn't make the feat seem correct even a percent. I said that psychological stuff you say makes sense, but it doesn't matter if you can't do it physically. Even I would want to save a person from fire purely out of kindness, but my physical body cannot cope up with the temperature. Similarly, you are saying that if the distance between Kisaki and Izana is short then Izana would knock the pistol off his hands, but you ignore the fact that Izana is not proven to be able to do that, neither can you prove that. And don't try to become one with Izana and try to comprehend what emotions he feels, you never know what he feels or what he doesn't. The only thing we can say is that Izana actually wanted to save Kakucho because Kakucho was the only person dear to him, that's all, don't try to start another debate of what Izana feels and doesn't feel.

To be more precise, the thread starter is assuming a more illogical sequence of events than what I'm assuming. If it comes down to two assumptions the rational one should be the one we go with.

The thread starter is not assuming a single thing, either logical or illogical, he is basically saying why it is bad to assume it, and you are unable to counter it, so accept it, there's nothing rational or irrational in it.

What's best is to just wait for an actual adaptation and see what happens. TR already has two pending hypersonic calcs which are waiting for an anime adaptation because the manga feats calcs are just assumed.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Why don't we just wait for this scene in the anime to come out?

Exactly.

 

[RoggerReggor]

That argument comes from people who have zero idea how to read a manga, reading starts from right to left in Tokyo revengers, and if you look at the panel, the first "bang" sound effect was exclusively shown on Kisaki's panel, meaning Kisaki shot the gun first, Izana's movement was only shown during the 2nd and 3rd shot

When Izana comes into frame is not a problem. Assuming when Izana started moving is a problem.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

It's normal to evaluate possible calculations and use them conservatively. It's not necessary to use high values.

So we are just going to ignore a clear cut context that implies that Izana was reacting to the gun being shot? Wow.

The distances are very different, just because they say it's very fast doesn't mean they won't react at all when they are at a distance like Mikey.

Not exactly, the distance moved by Kakucho is 17.3m, i made a scale of it, and it just hasn't been evaluated.

Draken still needs to move a lot before the gun is shot. Do you think that within a time frame of just 0.00078 seconds, the gun can be fired three times? Even the fastest gun in the world cannot do that. Do you really think that a regular handgun can be fired three times before Draken moves in to block it? That's not reasonable at all.

It's more unreasonable to assume that a goon's trigger speed would be faster than Draken's combat speed.

 

[CorbinMLG]

The distances are very different, just because they say it's very fast doesn't mean they won't react at all when they are at a distance like Mikey.

Kakucho does things like these and Izana is faster than him. If you want I can even show you a speed scaling chain with Kakucho on top and characters who can be scaled to Subsonic at the bottom with at least 5 blitzes.

 

[Second22]

So we are just going to ignore a clear cut context that implies that Izana was reacting to the gun being shot? Wow.

The context you assumed? Nah.

Not exactly, the distance moved by Kakucho is 17.3m, i made a scale of it, and it just hasn't been evaluated.

Then just wait it to evaluate. And see

It's more unreasonable to assume that a goon's trigger speed would be faster than Draken's combat speed.

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. How is Draken faster than pulling the trigger? The obvious time frame back then was for three shots, and that was definitely not within a 0.00078 s time frame if you thought this was right. This pistol can shoot faster than a 1914 machine gun. Again, is this really reasonable?

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

The context you assumed? Nah.

Why?

Then just wait it to evaluate. And see

Yeah, I'm just waiting for staffs members to pay attention to Tokyo Revengers, also I might have to fix my formatting there. This is the scale btw

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. How is Draken faster than pulling the trigger? The obvious time frame back then was for three shots, and that was definitely not within a 0.00078 s time frame if you thought this was right. This pistol can shoot faster than a 1914 machine gun. Again, is this really reasonable?

I see, you're probably right, this feat is what affected every mid-high-top tiers, however, I still have some scales that aren't even evaluated that gives similar ends, so we should wait for it to be evaluated before downgrading it, just wait for staffs to pay attention to Tokyo revengers.

 

[RoggerReggor]

@MorrisHatesYou @CorbinMLG

Alright, so I will be adding my arguments, and I want clear answers, no kind of assumptions based on psychological stuff. Also, if you are going to reply in parts, please reply to the whole feat calc argument at once, since my one point can be replied, and the other one might just contradict what you say, meaning that your typing would go to waste.

Izana saves Kakucho from bullets.

Feat explanation: Kisaki is going to shoot Kakucho. This is made clear when he says, "You're a goddamn nuisance.". Kakucho is already shot once by Kisaki too, this is clear that now, Kakucho will die if nothing happens. Just when Kakucho is going to be shot, Izana comes in between, sliding Kakucho, and basically coming in between himself.

Arguments:
1. According to you both, Izana reacts to a visual stimulus of the bullet being fired. But how does that even make sense lol? On what basis can you say that. Stimuli are of many types, one among them being auditory ones. Kisaki already said "Die" before shooting, which in most Japanese dubs is "Shiine", which has two syllables. Let's say it takes only 10 centiseconds to say it, it still is 0.1 seconds, while the timeframe assumed while calculating the feat originally is 2.72716263388/381 = 0.00715790718 seconds, which is like 7 milliseconds, and a lot, lot lesser than 10 centiseconds. Now, 10 centiseconds is a more than enough time to react to an auditory stimuli.
2. How do you assume that Izana was exactly around 8 meters away? What doesn't suggest that he couldn't have moved before? Kakucho did a big "RAAAA!" while running towards Kisaki, isn't that time more than enough to close the distance already?
3. You say that Izana had no intention of saving Kakucho and he only moved after reacting to the bullet shot? But just as I said, it could be even a reaction to the sound made by these characters.

Draken saves Takemichi from bullets

Feat explanation: A guy from Rokuhara Tandai is going to shoot Takemichi because he wants to know how important he is and wants to basically earn some bounty-like stuff. Draken comes in between, and boom, he dies!

Arguments:
1. You say that it is a lowball, but on what basis? It's still an assumption which doesn't make enough sense.
2. Just like Izana's feat, the shooter said "Die, Hanagaki", which is "Shiine, Hanagaki" in Japanese. Now, this stuff is literally so big that it takes around half a second to say (50 centiseconds). And Takemichi had closed his eyes, meaning that he doesn't know any stuff which is happening, so regarding reactions, there's none. Now, coming back to the argument, 0.5 seconds is a time more than enough to travel a whole 20 meters and still be 20/0.5 = 40 m/s subsonic fast. Unlike Izana's feat, Draken had intentions to save Takemichi, meaning that it can be said that he was actually already making a run for it. The "BANG!" SFX means gunshots, while "THUD" means Draken knocking the pistol off the shooter's hand. The biggest problem here is assuming the distances. Even the distance going to be travelled by the bullet is just assumed. The distance assumed to be travelled by the bullet is literally 0.4 meters, while the distance going to be travelled by Draken is a single meter. We all can agree that the speed would come to be more than the speed of the projectile only and only if the distance travelled by the projectile is less than the distance travelled by the character. I gave pixel-scaling a try, and found out that the distance between them is around a lot more than 0.4 m. It is 2.30222222 m. And now, you will have to assume that the distance travelled by Draken is more than that. In fact, for Draken to actually get to the current speed, he would have to travel 5.75555555 m just to match his current calculated speed of 1125 m/s lol. And you can't possibly make that assumption through any way. Takemichi's eyes were closed, so you cannot say that Draken would be out of POV of Draken, and similarly, you can't assume the distance overall.



That's all this newbie scaler has to say.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Sight of the gun being short works as a visual stimulus? As someone who has studied enough biology, I can say that there are many types of stimuli. One among them is auditory stimuli. Tokyo Revengers is originally a Japanese manga. Now, Kisaki even said "Die" before shooting. "Die" in Japanese is mostly used as "Shiine", which literally has two syllables. Through speech point of view, stress upon each syllable can be 8 centiseconds or 0.08 seconds, there are two, so it would be 0.16 seconds. The time frame currently taken is literally 2.72716263388/381 = 0.00715790718 seconds, which is a lot more than that. Now don't tell me that auditory stimuli don't work. It does, pretty well. The word "Die" is more than enough to make you understand that your ally is going to die soon.

A gun being shot has a far bigger impact than someone saying "die". This isn't about Izana having to understand that Kakucho might die, but about a very strong stimulus, which a gun shot is. Izana also most likely already knew before Kisaki said "die" that Kakucho might die anyway. Even if we do say that Izana's body reacted to Kisaki saying "die", it changes next to nothing because Kisaki shot directly afterwards, so by the time Izana's body started moving the shot was already being fired.

"He can blitz Kisaki easily" doesn't make the feat seem correct even a percent. I said that psychological stuff you say makes sense, but it doesn't matter if you can't do it physically. Even I would want to save a person from fire purely out of kindness, but my physical body cannot cope up with the temperature. Similarly, you are saying that if the distance between Kisaki and Izana is short then Izana would knock the pistol off his hands, but you ignore the fact that Izana is not proven to be able to do that, neither can you prove that. And don't try to become one with Izana and try to comprehend what emotions he feels, you never know what he feels or what he doesn't. The only thing we can say is that Izana actually wanted to save Kakucho because Kakucho was the only person dear to him, that's all, don't try to start another debate of what Izana feels and doesn't feel.

We don't know for sure if he could have knocked the pistol out of Kisaki's hand yes, but this hypothetical scenario doesn't even matter here, I think it's pointless to continue this.

The thread starter is not assuming a single thing, either logical or illogical, he is basically saying why it is bad to assume it, and you are unable to counter it, so accept it, there's nothing rational or irrational in it.

The thread starter is assuming that Draken was closer to Takemichi than to the shooter and that he just simply jumped in front of Takemichi. The former has a lower chance than the opposite of it, and the latter is irrational because of it. Draken being less than a meter away from shooter before the gun shot doesn't make sense either.

What's best is to just wait for an actual adaptation and see what happens. TR already has two pending hypersonic calcs which are waiting for an anime adaptation because the manga feats calcs are just assumed.

Already has two pending Hypersonic calcs? I don't think there are any, but if there actually are then feel free to correct me. You are also putting too much trust into the anime adaptation. They already butchered a feat in it, though on the opposite end also made one far better, but you get it.

Edit: Sorry for not noticing your latest reply.

 

[RoggerReggor]

A gun being shot has a far bigger impact than someone saying "die". This isn't about Izana having to understand that Kakucho might die, but about a very strong stimulus, which a gun shot is. Izana also most likely already knew before Kisaki said "die" that Kakucho might die anyway. Even if we do say that Izana's body reacted to Kisaki saying "die", it changes next to nothing because Kisaki shot directly afterwards, so by the time Izana's body started moving the shot was already being fired.

Kisaki said "Die!" in a full complete wording. Manga's have thing like "Die-" to indicate something done directly after. Even if Izana is a human (even though he is a superhuman, let's just assume), the time taken by him wouldn't be more than 0.17 seconds which is the reaction time to auditory stimuli. And it takes at least half a second to fire a gun, it still is more than enough to close the distance. Also, you are back to assuming again, assuming that Kisaki shot exactly after saying "Die!" is the same as assuming when Kisaki shot.

We don't know for sure if he could have knocked the pistol out of Kisaki's hand yes, but this hypothetical scenario doesn't even matter here, I think it's pointless to continue this.

Yes, let's not.

The thread starter is assuming that Draken was closer to Takemichi than to the shooter and that he just simply jumped in front of Takemichi. The former has a lower chance than the opposite of it, and the latter is irrational because of it. Draken being less than a meter away from shooter before the gun shot doesn't make sense either.

The thread starter is assuming that Draken was closer to Takemichi than to the shooter and that he just simply jumped in front of Takemichi, and you guys are assuming that Draken travelled more distance than the projectile did, while both are doing assumptions, I think it is pretty clear that this feat is good enough to elevate the whole verse to a way higher speed, and something like assumptions shouldn't be done. Second22 himself said somewhere in this thread only that it would be better if we just wait for the anime adaptation to take place, rather than arguing and just making assumptions and making assumptions to contradict assumptions, and make more assumptions to contradict the contradicting assumptions, and making more assumptions to... (let me stop right here lol, or I will take the entire day)

Already has two pending Hypersonic calcs? I don't think there are any, but if there actually are then feel free to correct me. You are also putting too much trust into the anime adaptation. They already butchered a feat in it, though on the opposite end also made one far better, but you get it.

Yes, there are. Though there are many, there are only two which are waiting for an anime adaptation. And though I agree that anime adaptations cannot be trusted much, it's also true that trusting ourselves would only give rise to only assumptions.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Feat explanation: Kisaki is going to shoot Kakucho. This is made clear when he says, "You're a goddamn nuisance.". Kakucho is already shot once by Kisaki too, this is clear that now, Kakucho will die if nothing happens. Just when Kakucho is going to be shot, Izana comes in between, sliding Kakucho, and basically coming in between himself.

Arguments:
1. According to you both, Izana reacts to a visual stimulus of the bullet being fired. But how does that even make sense lol? On what basis can you say that. Stimuli are of many types, one among them being auditory ones. Kisaki already said "Die" before shooting, which in most Japanese dubs is "Shiine", which has two syllables. Let's say it takes only 10 centiseconds to say it, it still is 0.1 seconds, while the timeframe assumed while calculating the feat originally is 2.72716263388/381 = 0.00715790718 seconds, which is like 7 milliseconds, and a lot, lot lesser than 10 centiseconds. Now, 10 centiseconds is a more than enough time to react to an auditory stimuli.
2. How do you assume that Izana was exactly around 8 meters away? What doesn't suggest that he couldn't have moved before? Kakucho did a big "RAAAA!" while running towards Kisaki, isn't that time more than enough to close the distance already?
3. You say that Izana had no intention of saving Kakucho and he only moved after reacting to the bullet shot? But just as I said, it could be even a reaction to the sound made by these characters.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????What???? A gun being shot has FAR more impact than what kisaki's said.

If it was auditory stimulus, Izana WOULD BE protecting Kakucho at the time Kisaki said "Kakucho, you're in my way you bastard", and he was already pointing his gun towards Kakucho there.

 

[RoggerReggor]

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????What???? A gun being shot has FAR more impact than what kisaki's said.

If it was auditory stimulus, Izana WOULD BE protecting Kakucho at the time Kisaki said "Kakucho, you're in my way you bastard", and he was already pointing his gun towards Kakucho there.

Though visual stimuli have more impact than auditory stimuli, it is also true that auditory stimuli happened before the actual visual stimulus which you are arguing upon.

Kakucho was nearer to Kisaki than Izana was. If both are reaching at the same place at the same time, it just means that Izana is a bit faster than Kakucho. And also, Kakucho was making a run for Kisaki, while Izana was making a run for Kakucho, and ignoring the assumptions, if both are reaching the same point in the same time while Izana is farther, it just means that Izana is faster than Kakucho, not that Izana outpaces the bullet. Outpacing a bullet is just an assumption here.

 

[Vapourrrrr]

Wow, this thread is truly disappointing, I didn't think Tokyo revengers haters could get this bad, I will list my concerns with all these stupid debunks

1. This made me laugh out loud, I saw the calculation that was linked to this thread... Below average human strength and 3.8 KJ FOR COMPLETELY PULVERISING A CHURCH PEW ?!?! The pulverisation of a wooden door is over 500KJ, shouldn't this prove that using KE is just wrong, Using destruction values is much better, I calculates it myself and got 1 to 3 mega joules and class 10 lifting strength, there is so many things wrong with both calc's including the 9A debunk which was so bad I left a message on the creator of the calcs message wall voicing my concerns and everything wrong with the calc (there was more then 5), Stop trying to downgrade feats that clearly need to be upgraded
2. Izana dashes at Mikey, this was a crazy read, if multiple people who are scaled above subsonic are surprised at his speed the number used should be at the very least 0.0290
3. This was the hardest read of all, Subsonic ?!?! The manga panel shows the gun is shot and Izana pushing Kakucho out of the way to save him after Kakucho ran why do you think Izana ran with him ? Its an odd assumption to make, wouldn't Kisaki have noticed Izana was pacing behind Kakucho and looked slightly more suprised ?? Although im not the best with speed calcs, even I can tell the debunks are bad

In my opinion the Izana gun feat should be upgraded to Hypersonic + Since the debunk has many things wrong with it, I also think the verse should be upgraded to small building level via the Takemichi explosion calc

 

[RoggerReggor]

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????What???? A gun being shot has FAR more impact than what kisaki's said.

If it was auditory stimulus, Izana WOULD BE protecting Kakucho at the time Kisaki said "Kakucho, you're in my way you bastard", and he was already pointing his gun towards Kakucho there.

Also, so you mean that Izana would be protecting Kakucho at the time Kisaki said that? So, you basically mean that Izana would have started running before, and basically mean that Izana is slower than even what I have assumed indirectly? Well done.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

FOR COMPLETELY PULVERISING A CHURCH PEW ?!?!

The thing has barely fragmented Lol

 

[RoggerReggor]

Wow, this thread is truly disappointing, I didn't think Tokyo revengers haters could get this bad, I will list my concerns with all these stupid debunks

Sure, let's see. BTW, I don't hate the verse at all, even the thread starter doesn't hate it (he himself stated that he wants a calm and peaceful argument) and neither does anyone here, there's a fine line between a hater and an opposer, while I am completely in the supporter range. I also love Naruto, but there's no one for now who said that he scales to universal, because it cannot be done lol.

1. This made me laugh out loud, I saw the calculation that was linked to this thread... Below average human strength and 3.8 KJ FOR COMPLETELY PULVERISING A CHURCH PEW ?!?! The pulverisation of a wooden door is over 500KJ, shouldn't this prove that using KE is just wrong, Using destruction values is much better, I calculates it myself and got 1 to 3 mega joules and class 10 lifting strength, there is so many things wrong with both calc's including the 9A debunk which was so bad I left a message on the creator of the calcs message wall voicing my concerns and everything wrong with the calc (there was more then 5), Stop trying to downgrade feats that clearly need to be upgraded

Pulverization is in J/cc, which means that you are actually pulverizing a church pew into cc small fragments. KLOL himself (one of the CGMs) said that the fragmentation is barely even 25%. They aren't even a cc small, they are around 100s of cc visually lol. Though I myself don't agree with the destruction upon ground logic, your arguments don't even match the fragmentation criteria.

2. Izana dashes at Mikey, this was a crazy read, if multiple people who are scaled above subsonic are surprised at his speed the number used should be at the very least 0.0290

Ok, I have read Blue Lock, and you also might have. Now, the characters in Blue Lock are mostly athletic to peak human purely through statements and even feats, with one or two of the characters which I think is superhuman to subsonic. Now, they react after every goal, so does that MEAN that they aren't able to react to it? xD. What's the logic behind saying that they couldn't react to it? When there's no proof?

3. This was the hardest read of all, Subsonic ?!?! The manga panel shows the gun is shot and Izana pushing Kakucho out of the way to save him after Kakucho ran why do you think Izana ran with him ? Its an odd assumption to make, wouldn't Kisaki have noticed Izana was pacing behind Kakucho and looked slightly more suprised ??

Already argued a ton, read the whole damn thread (it would take a lot of time, but do it).

In my opinion the Izana gun feat should be upgraded to Hypersonic + Since the debunk has many things wrong with it, I also think the verse should be upgraded to small building level via the Takemichi explosion calc

Hypersonic+? Small building level? Though I don't know about any hypersonic+ calc, but I have seen your Takemichi calc. You said that Takemichi tanked an explosion, while he was sent flying through it, and that too, at a great distance (a baseball referee would have clearly said that it was a homerun over how far he fell). Tanking would be when he doesn't even move from his place, let alone being small building level. Even people in real-life are sent flying from explosion, just see the Beerut explosion clip and find out that a hell lot of people were sent flying through its impact, now, they all should be small building level fr.

 

[CorbinMLG]

2. How do you assume that Izana was exactly around 8 meters away? What doesn't suggest that he couldn't have moved before? Kakucho did a big "RAAAA!" while running towards Kisaki, isn't that time more than enough to close the distance already?

You literally said you agreed with him not moving at all until some sort of stimulus not that long ago. Do we need to go over this again?

Other points you made here are being argued separately so I will skip them.

1. You say that it is a lowball, but on what basis? It's still an assumption which doesn't make enough sense.

Because the assumption is one meter, and if he was less than one meter away he could have just knocked the gun out of the shooter's hand before he could have shot. That's why anything lower than one meter doesn't work, which pretty much removes the "assumption factor" because it's the minimum distance he had to cover.

2. Just like Izana's feat, the shooter said "Die, Hanagaki", which is "Shiine, Hanagaki" in Japanese. Now, this stuff is literally so big that it takes around half a second to say (50 centiseconds). And Takemichi had closed his eyes, meaning that he doesn't know any stuff which is happening, so regarding reactions, there's none. Now, coming back to the argument, 0.5 seconds is a time more than enough to travel a whole 20 meters and still be 20/0.5 = 40 m/s subsonic fast.

Takemichi was only shown closing his eyes right after the bullets were shot but before they hit Draken. I'm not saying that Takemichi somehow reacted to the bullets or anything, it's just a coincidence, but it shows us that it's impossible that Draken was within one meter of the shooter, and it actually means that he was outside of Takemichi's vision. This could upgrade the calculation. You might say that Draken was just simply faster than everyone's eyes, but Takemichi perceived Kisaki shooting Izana before the bullets hit Izana, which would put his perception speed in the Supersonic range. This further supports Draken in fact outspeeding bullets.

The biggest problem here is assuming the distances. Even the distance going to be travelled by the bullet is just assumed. The distance assumed to be travelled by the bullet is literally 0.4 meters, while the distance going to be travelled by Draken is a single meter. We all can agree that the speed would come to be more than the speed of the projectile only and only if the distance travelled by the projectile is less than the distance travelled by the character. I gave pixel-scaling a try, and found out that the distance between them is around a lot more than 0.4 m. It is 2.30222222 m. And now, you will have to assume that the distance travelled by Draken is more than that. In fact, for Draken to actually get to the current speed, he would have to travel 5.75555555 m just to match his current calculated speed of 1125 m/s lol. And you can't possibly make that assumption through any way.

The 0.4 meters aren't assumed in my calculation, I properly pixel scaled it and have a proper distance for it. The one meter as I said is an extreme lowball which could honestly be increased, especially after what I said above.

 

[Vapourrrrr]

The thing has barely fragmented Lol

Tell me you didn't watch the episode without telling me you didn't watch it

After the throw, you could see that it was so badly pulverised it barley showed up in scenes afterwards, just because the animation studio is so bad they can't animate the pulverisation of a church pew well doesn't mean you can say it was barley fragmentated

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Tell me you didn't watch the episode without telling me you didn't watch it

After the throw, you could see that it was so badly pulverised it barley showed up in scenes afterwards, just because the animation studio is so bad they can't animate the pulverisation of a church pew well doesn't mean you can say it was barley fragmentated

Or the animation studio forgot to draw the broken churck pew in the background
Way more easy assumption

 

[RoggerReggor]

You literally said you agreed with him not moving at all until some sort of stimulus not that long ago. Do we need to go over this again?

I used the word "might", The sound "RAAAA!" from Kakucho can also be treated as a stimulus. There are literally many auditory stimuli before the visual stimulus which you are arguing about, all of them, being able to downgrade the feat.

Other points you made here are being argued separately so I will skip them.

Sure.

Because the assumption is one meter, and if he was less than one meter away he could have just knocked the gun out of the shooter's hand before he could have shot. That's why anything lower than one meter doesn't work, which pretty much removes the "assumption factor" because it's the minimum distance he had to cover.

You are saying one meter is the minimum distance he had to cover and I know why it is taken. What my problem is why it is 0.4 meters for the projectile travel distance? The more is the projectile travel distance, the less would be the speed.

Takemichi was only shown closing his eyes right after the bullets were shot but before they hit Draken. I'm not saying that Takemichi somehow reacted to the bullets or anything, it's just a coincidence, but it shows us that it's impossible that Draken was within one meter of the shooter, and it actually means that he was outside of Takemichi's vision. This could upgrade the calculation. You might say that Draken was just simply faster than everyone's eyes, but Takemichi perceived Kisaki shooting Izana before the bullets hit Izana, which would put his perception speed in the Supersonic range. This further supports Draken in fact outspeeding bullets.

Another assumption, it isn't shown when did Takemichi close his eyes. Takemichi himself was shocked when he noticed Draken, meaning that Draken basically was out of the range before he did close his eyes, and we don't know when did he do it. Though I myself think that Takemichi would have done it when the shooter said "Die! Hanagaki!" and that's the one which makes the most sense, nothing like assuming a coincidence or something. Also, Takemichi never perceived bullets before Izana saved Kakucho. You are supposed to read right to left bud, Takemichi was the second to do so lol, probably the only one who was shown reacting to the feat while it was being performed.

The 0.4 meters aren't assumed in my calculation, I properly pixel scaled it and have a proper distance for it. The one meter as I said is an extreme lowball which could honestly be increased, especially after what I said above.

The distance isn't 0.4 meters, and I myself said how much distance would Draken have to actually travel to actually match with his current speed lol.

 

[Vapourrrrr]

Sure, let's see. BTW, I don't hate the verse at all, even the thread starter doesn't hate it (he himself stated that he wants a calm and peaceful argument) and neither does anyone here, there's a fine line between a hater and an opposer, while I am completely in the supporter range. I also love Naruto, but there's no one for now who said that he scales to universal, because it cannot be done lol.

Pulverization is in J/cc, which means that you are actually pulverizing a church pew into cc small fragments. KLOL himself (one of the CGMs) said that the fragmentation is barely even 25%. They aren't even a cc small, they are around 100s of cc visually lol. Though I myself don't agree with the destruction upon ground logic, your arguments don't even match the fragmentation criteria.

Ok, I have read Blue Lock, and you also might have. Now, the characters in Blue Lock are mostly athletic to peak human purely through statements and even feats, with one or two of the characters which I think is superhuman to subsonic. Now, they react after every goal, so does that MEAN that they aren't able to react to it? xD. What's the logic behind saying that they couldn't react to it? When there's no proof?

Already argued a ton, read the whole damn thread (it would take a lot of time, but do it).

Hypersonic+? Small building level? Though I don't know about any hypersonic+ calc, but I have seen your Takemichi calc. You said that Takemichi tanked an explosion, while he was sent flying through it, and that too, at a great distance (a baseball referee would have clearly said that it was a homerun over how far he fell). Tanking would be when he doesn't even move from his place, let alone being small building level. Even people in real-life are sent flying from explosion, just see the Beerut explosion clip and find out that a hell lot of people were sent flying through its impact, now, they all should be small building level fr.

1. There is Naruto universal scaling from the LN so idk what your talking about
2. This is easily debunkable, If you spend time looking at the clip you will realise that the clip stops while the church pew is still being pulverised so you can only assume in the clips after the feat ( where you barley see the wood chunks ) that the church pew was pulverised much more then you think
3. Blue lock has nothing to do with this and also I don't get your point, the characters in blue lock react to goals because the balls are not moving faster then them, if the characters are surprised at the speed the ball is traveling then the ball is likely traveling faster then how fast they move and kick balls at so your point is flawed
4. people sent flying from it were not 0.06m away from it, the people within 5 to 20 metres all died, Takemichi was 0.06 m away so I'm confused ? There was a punisher feat similar to it and it was accepted, Takemichi literally tanked it I don't get why your arguing that he didn't tank it when he could move and function completely fine, I replied to you in my post explaining in more detail, Hypersonic is from the Izana gun feat

 

[Clout5560]

Or the animation studio forgot to draw the broken churck pew in the background
Way more easy assumption

Cloudyagami flash backs.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Tell me you didn't watch the episode without telling me you didn't watch it

After the throw, you could see that it was so badly pulverised it barley showed up in scenes afterwards, just because the animation studio is so bad they can't animate the pulverisation of a church pew well doesn't mean you can say it was barley fragmentated

Sure, the animation studio is so bad at animation, and the mangaka is so bad at drawing, that both the parties forgot to include the feat where Takemichi tanked a big bang instead of what you mentioned as an explosion?

Bruh, stop blaming the animation styles, they are the source for calcs, calcs aren't the source for the animation.

 

[Vapourrrrr]

Or the animation studio forgot to draw the broken churck pew in the background
Way more easy assumption

They wouldn't forget something like that when there consistent with animating THE FACT THAT THE CHURCH PEW WAS GONE, They animated the fact that the the pew wasn't there so why wouldn't they animate the destruction (its because the pew was fragmented)

 

[Vapourrrrr]

Sure, the animation studio is so bad at animation, and the mangaka is so bad at drawing, that both the parties forgot to include the feat where Takemichi tanked a big bang instead of what you mentioned as an explosion?

Bruh, stop blaming the animation styles, they are the source for calcs, calcs aren't the source for the animation.

I was talking about the Taiju feat, why are you talking about the explosion feat ?

 

[Clout5560]

I was talking about the Taiju feat, why are you talking about the explosion feat ?

Dude read what he’s saying. Theirs no way you read all of that in 3 minutes maximum

 

[RoggerReggor]

1. There is Naruto universal scaling from the LN so idk what your talking about

Don't care, it was an example.

2. This is easily debunkable, If you spend time looking at the clip you will realise that the clip stops while the church pew is still being pulverised so you can only assume in the clips after the feat ( where you barley see the wood chunks ) that the church pew was pulverised much more then you think

Nah, it was going to get pulverized further, not more, there's a difference between both, and science explains it .

3. Blue lock has nothing to do with this and also I don't get your point, the characters in blue lock react to goals because the balls are not moving faster then them, if the characters are surprised at the speed the ball is traveling then the ball is likely traveling faster then how fast they move and kick balls at so your point is flawed

Bruh, they even show surprise. Anyone would be surprised if your ally is getting beaten he hell out, same is the case with Chifuyu and others.

4. people sent flying from it were not 0.06m away from it, the people within 5 to 20 metres all died, Takemichi was 0.06 m away so I'm confused ? There was a punisher feat similar to it and it was accepted, Takemichi literally tanked it I don't get why your arguing that he didn't tank it when he could move and function completely fine, I replied to you in my post explaining in more detail, Hypersonic is from the Izana gun feat

Beerut explosion was on whole another scale than some vehicle explosion, so they don't relate. People within 100 meters range had some people also sent flying. I don't know about punisher calc. But about the Takemichi feat, I can bet that he never tanked it, he was sent flying, which means that his durability was penetrated.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Though visual stimuli have more impact than auditory stimuli, it is also true that auditory stimuli happened before the actual visual stimulus which you are arguing upon.

Kakucho was nearer to Kisaki than Izana was. If both are reaching at the same place at the same time, it just means that Izana is a bit faster than Kakucho. And also, Kakucho was making a run for Kisaki, while Izana was making a run for Kakucho, and ignoring the assumptions, if both are reaching the same point in the same time while Izana is farther, it just means that Izana is faster than Kakucho, not that Izana outpaces the bullet. Outpacing a bullet is just an assumption here.

Also, so you mean that Izana would be protecting Kakucho at the time Kisaki said that? So, you basically mean that Izana would have started running before, and basically mean that Izana is slower than even what I have assumed indirectly? Well done.

You're not making any sense at this point.

You initially agreed with me saying he didn't move at all before reacting to a stimulus.

Then I said if it was auditory stimulus, he'd be reacting to "Kakucho you're in my way you bastard", and you agree with that.

If that was to be the case then Kisaki would question why Izana was running because Kakucho and Izana would have similar speed at that point, but that doesn't make any sense since Kisaki only noticed Izana after he was done pushing away Kakucho.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

You literally said you agreed with him not moving at all until some sort of stimulus not that long ago. Do we need to go over this again?

BRO EXACTLY

 

[RoggerReggor]

I was talking about the Taiju feat, why are you talking about the explosion feat ?

I am just being sarcastic. You can't blame animation studios, that's my point.

 

[Vapourrrrr]

Dude read what he’s saying. Theirs no way you read all of that in 3 minutes maximum

He wrote me like 2 sentences what are you talking about

 

[RoggerReggor]

You're not making any sense at this point.

You initially agreed with me saying he didn't move at all before reacting to a stimulus.

Then I said if it was auditory stimulus, he'd be reacting to "Kakucho you're in my way you bastard", and you agree with that.

If that was to be the case then Kisaki would question why Izana was running because Kakucho and Izana would have similar speed at that point, but that doesn't make any sense since Kisaki only noticed Izana after he was done pushing away Kakucho.

I agreed with it? Wait, if you interpreted it like that, then I am sorry, but you didn't interpret it correctly. What I wanted to say was that you are basically indirectly making Izana even slower by saying that he would react to that "Kakucho, you're in my way, you bastard." for no particular reason. I thought adding a "Well Done." was good enough to indicate that I was being sarcastic.