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Tokyo Revengers: LS upgrade

974
368
I made a recalculation for this feat:

Original calc

Recalc


Problems with the original calc:

- Assumes by default that kick is 34 m/s without actually calculating it.

- Uses 1 s (based on the anime) as time frame for the entire kick when the whole thing happens in 3 - 4 s and it doesn't take in account the acceleration blitzed the guy.


This upgrades the feat from peak human to class 10, 25 if we account he does it with a single limb.
 
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Disagree heavily. Here are my reasons:
1. This is an insanely high outlier for the verse. Even though Taiju was able to reach around this level through the church pew calc for some time, this is still an outlier.
2. The calc assumes that Kazutora was blitzed, while it cannot always be the case. Secondly, it doesn't mean to use subsonic reactions every time, isn't that calc stacking?
3. Chonbo was able to say "I am being lifted?" and even realized that he was being lifted. This would normally take around a second to speak. While I understand that this happens many times in DBZ as well, DBZ has its own reasons to counter it and has contradicted this logic many times, while TR hasn't. This is the biggest reason I disagree.

There can be many reasons of why Kazutora didn't not attack. TR is very complicated because you cannot assume that a character is being blitzed just upon their character reactions.
 
Disagree heavily. Here are my reasons:
1. This is an insanely high outlier for the verse. Even though Taiju was able to reach around this level through the church pew calc for some time, this is still an outlier.
2. The calc assumes that Kazutora was blitzed, while it cannot always be the case. Secondly, it doesn't mean to use subsonic reactions every time, isn't that calc stacking?
3. Chonbo was able to say "I am being lifted?" and even realized that he was being lifted. This would normally take around a second to speak. While I understand that this happens many times in DBZ as well, DBZ has its own reasons to counter it and has contradicted this logic many times, while TR hasn't. This is the biggest reason I disagree.

There can be many reasons of why Kazutora didn't not attack. TR is very complicated because you cannot assume that a character is being blitzed just upon their character reactions.
1. The church pew calc was never debunked, it scales to this level and was removed for no reason ? Also, Mikey is the strongest in the verse by a massive margin, not to mention the ammount of LS calcs for the verse that go unevaluated.
2. He was blitzed and no it isn't calc stacking, Kazutora can't even react, if he wasn't blitzed he would have been able to move or do something at least
3. Did you even read the calc mate ? Zefra accounts for that and lowers the distance, stop yappin about nonsense
 
1. This is an insanely high outlier for the verse.
Yeah it's an insanely high outlier for the top of the verse to scale to Class 10 where even random goons casually throw people meters away with one hand in the verse 🥴

Even though Taiju was able to reach around this level through the church pew calc for some time, this is still an outlier.
that LS calc wasn't removed cuz it was wrong btw, it got removed cuz the guy who made the calc was banned. That feat has to be recalculated.
 
1. This is an insanely high outlier for the verse. Even though Taiju was able to reach around this level through the church pew calc for some time, this is still an outlier.
What's the reason it's an outlier? Is it contraddicted somewhere? If your point is "it's an outlier because the result is high" that's not a valid justification for it being an outlier, is not like we see him struggling in lifting something in the serie so... Also this would only scale to his kick LS which are by the narrative the most OP thing in the verse so the fact that the strongest thing in the verse has an high LS is not absurd.
2. The calc assumes that Kazutora was blitzed, while it cannot always be the case. Secondly, it doesn't mean to use subsonic reactions every time, isn't that calc stacking?
He was blitzed, Kazutora brought Mikey on that field in order to nerf his nuclear kicks, he is fully aware of those kicks power and you are telling me he stood there waiting for it, also only who scales from Hanma (who is on pair with base Mikey) can react to them, not even Taiju and Osanai who scale higher than captains (Kazutora is one) can react to them, you are putting Kazutora reaction on pair with the god tiers of the verse basically.

Actually I was ready to change it if necessary but CGMs allow it in general so unless a CGM tells me to change it there are no problems, also I'm pretty sure there are some kind of automatic reactions that surpass your reaction time and here we have Kazutora who didn't react in any way.
3. Chonbo was able to say "I am being lifted?" and even realized that he was being lifted. This would normally take around a second to speak. While I understand that this happens many times in DBZ as well, DBZ has its own reasons to counter it and has contradicted this logic many times, while TR hasn't. This is the biggest reason I disagree.
Oh, I explained it in the blog, Chonbo said that when Mikey was slowing lifting the leg (0,2 m/s) so he had 3 s to do it, only the acceleration blitzed kazutora, I calced both speed in order to find the acceleration, also it wouldn't make sense for the kick to last even 1 s in first place.
There can be many reasons of why Kazutora didn't not attack. TR is very complicated because you cannot assume that a character is being blitzed just upon their character reactions
I would normally agree, the point is that Mikey kicks constantly blitz the opponents, so it's more uncommon to find a situation where the kick can't blitz someone than a situation where the kicks blitz, in fact when people react to them, for example Hanma and Takemichi, people are surprised about that.
Here I'm just following the narrative of the verse where people can react to it only if they have something helping them, Hanma is stated to have an absurd reaction/vision (stated in the character's book) and therefore he is able to block his kick and Takemichi is able to avoid them only due to his future visions, in any other case Mikey's kick can blitz everyone since it's directly the narrative of the verse that suggests that.
 
1. The church pew calc was never debunked, it scales to this level and was removed for no reason ? Also, Mikey is the strongest in the verse by a massive margin, not to mention the ammount of LS calcs for the verse that go unevaluated.
I don't think it was removed for no reason. Someone made a CRT about it if I remember correctly and I don't know what points they raised. Also, Mikey isn't physically the strongest. By physically, I mean by muscle strength. Unless you really have a very good proof, you cannot deny that Mikey is too tinier than people like Draken and Taiju and they should logically have higher LS than him.
2. He was blitzed and no it isn't calc stacking, Kazutora can't even react, if he wasn't blitzed he would have been able to move or do something at least
In Chapter 265, Mikey mentioned that while attacking Kazutora, he was in dark impulse. In the video as well, Kazutora looks surprisingly terrified of Mikey even though there shouldn't be anything making him afraid. Kazutora was very confident of beating Mikey and that's why, he lured him to a place where Mikey's kicks wouldn't just hit him very well.

Leave that, my point was that Kazutora was just affected by DI aura. In DI state, Mikey has "Aura", and he can visibly scare people. Kazutora being afraid even before the attack happened proves it. Also, when you are not in your senses, dodging might even become impossible for you.
3. Did you even read the calc mate ? Zefra accounts for that and lowers the distance, stop yappin about nonsense
Please don't show that attitude. I have no reason to get this another typical TR thread.

I disagreed of course when I read the calc. In the video, Chonbo completes the sentence when he is around Mikey's chest level already. The angle formed is very well an obtuse angle. In fact, the degrees should be absolute supplementary opposite that's what I believe.
Yeah it's an insanely high outlier for the top of the verse to scale to Class 10 where even random goons casually throw people meters away with one hand in the verse 🥴
I don't know if this is meant to be satire but throwing people is not Class 10 by any means. It is like saying you need to apply the same force you need to apply while lifting 4 SUVs to throw a person by lifting. Secondly, if it is less than g, then even throwing people cannot go behind
that LS calc wasn't removed cuz it was wrong btw, it got removed cuz the guy who made the calc was banned. That feat has to be recalculated.
...already addressed while replying to HollowVanity. The church pew calc gets around Class 5 though.
What's the reason it's an outlier? Is it contraddicted somewhere? If your point is "it's an outlier because the result is high" that's not a valid justification for it being an outlier, is not like we see him struggling in lifting something in the serie so... Also this would only scale to his kick LS which are by the narrative the most OP thing in the verse so the fact that the strongest thing in the verse has an high LS is not absurd.
An outlier in the sense that it scales way above the current verse position.
He was blitzed, Kazutora brought Mikey on that field in order to nerf his nuclear kicks, he is fully aware of those kicks power and you are telling me he stood there waiting for it, also only who scales from Hanma (who is on pair with base Mikey) can react to them, not even Taiju and Osanai who scale higher than captains (Kazutora is one) can react to them, you are putting Kazutora reaction on pair with the god tiers of the verse basically.
I am not putting Kazutora's reactions at that level. There are currently no feats which scale to subsonic before this feat took place. Also, this is while Mikey is lifting someone on his feet. Secondly, I already addressed that Mikey was in DI in this feat (implied in Chapter 265) and Kazutora should be affected by his "Aura" as well. The thing which confirms this is that you can see Kazutora being visually scared when Mikey talks to him with his "gaze". Now, if your entire argument is what was Kazutora doing when he was being attacked, then I am going to counter that by the fact that Kazutora did nothing even when Mikey attacked two people, and when Mikey was starting to lift Chonbo, that could have even been the time for that. You should have used athletic human reactions in this one imo.
Actually I was ready to change it if necessary but CGMs allow it in general so unless a CGM tells me to change it there are no problems, also I'm pretty sure there are some kind of automatic reactions that surpass your reaction time and here we have Kazutora who didn't react in any way.
The "aura" argument definitely contradicts this.
Oh, I explained it in the blog, Chonbo said that when Mikey was slowing lifting the leg (0,2 m/s) so he had 3 s to do it, only the acceleration blitzed kazutora, I calced both speed in order to find the acceleration, also it wouldn't make sense for the kick to last even 1 s in first place.
Visually as well, if the kick was really 0.029 seconds, then any viewer of the show should find it hard to perceive it very well. TR being a 24 FPS anime, the fastest they can give the timeframe is 0.0416666667 seconds, which in fact, would be hard to even notice lol.
I would normally agree, the point is that Mikey kicks constantly blitz the opponents, so it's more uncommon to find a situation where the kick can't blitz someone than a situation where the kicks blitz, in fact when people react to them, for example Hanma and Takemichi, people are surprised about that.
Here I'm just following the narrative of the verse where people can react to it only if they have something helping them, Hanma is stated to have an absurd reaction/vision (stated in the character's book) and therefore he is able to block his kick and Takemichi is able to avoid them only due to his future visions, in any other case Mikey's kick can blitz everyone since it's directly the narrative of the verse that suggests that.
I don't understand what you are suggesting through "blitz", a perception blitz or a reaction blitz? Perception blitz is very wrong because well, I don't need to make you understand that because you have yourself made those arguments in the past.

Secondly, Kazutora already had a lot of time to make a reaction, but he was very well busy in being scared, I don't understand this damn.
 
I don't know if this is meant to be satire but throwing people is not Class 10 by any means. It is like saying you need to apply the same force you need to apply while lifting 4 SUVs to throw a person by lifting. Secondly, if it is less than g, then even throwing people cannot go behind
I didn't mean throwing people are Class 10. It's probably Peak Human-Class 1 depending on the distance. Even a goon has Peak Human-Class 1 LS in the series. I don't understand how the strongest dude of the verse having Class 10 is an outlier.

Leave that, my point was that Kazutora was just affected by DI aura. In DI state, Mikey has "Aura", and he can visibly scare people. Kazutora being afraid even before the attack happened proves it. Also, when you are not in your senses, dodging might even become impossible for you.
I already argued this with Zefra. Mikey activates his DI after Baji dies and that's a few chapters before he knocks out Kazutora. You can say that Mikey was angry at Kazutora in the feat and he has Rage Power so he becomes a little stronger than his casual self when he is angry but that's definitely not DI.

TR being a 24 FPS anime, the fastest they can give the timeframe is 0.0416666667 seconds, which in fact, would be hard to even notice lol
I remember you telling me that using anime timeframes for a speed calc is really wrong in my COTE debunk thread. It's funny how you say the exact opposite in a TR upgrade thread.
 
I didn't mean throwing people are Class 10. It's probably Peak Human-Class 1 depending on the distance. Even a goon has Peak Human-Class 1 LS in the series. I don't understand how the strongest dude of the verse having Class 10 is an outlier.
I don't get your point. See Mitsuya's profile, he has average human LS. And the LS of the verse ranges from average human to peak human. I don't get you when you say a random goon as peak human-Class 1 LS. Secondly, I did mention that throwing people reaches above athletic level only if the g is higher than 9.8.
I already argued this with Zefra. Mikey activates his DI after Baji dies and that's a few chapters before he knocks out Kazutora. You can say that Mikey was angry at Kazutora in the feat and he has Rage Power so he becomes a little stronger than his casual self when he is angry but that's definitely not DI.
I am not going to prove the otherwise. Just tell me why was Kazutora showing expressions of being afraid when Mikey hadn't even attacked him. Secondly, also the fact that Kazutora doesn't attack Mikey in the entire time when Mikey is busy while attacking others? All of that doesn't make sense because Kazutora was done being afraid already.
I remember you telling me that using anime timeframes for a speed calc is really wrong in my COTE debunk thread. It's funny how you say the exact opposite in a TR upgrade thread.
I think you are talking about the Manabu getting outsped by Ayanokouji feat? I only said that because you guys were going on with "anime shows Ayanokouji not being much faster than Manabu" stuff. Also, the LN easily contradicted it. You have no proof here to objectify that Mikey is legit blitzing Kazutora here or not.

Also, if Chonbo really was sent flying through that, then he should go at least [(0.5*70*27,6*27.6)/(70*9.8)] = 38.8653061 m high and likely die immediately.
 
I don't get your point. See Mitsuya's profile, he has average human LS. And the LS of the verse ranges from average human to peak human.
It's because close to none LS feats of the verse got calculated or evaluated.
I don't get you when you say a random goon as peak human-Class 1 LS. Secondly, I did mention that throwing people reaches above athletic level only if the g is higher than 9.8.
You didn't say something like that as I remember and It's wrong even if you did. Being able to throw people meters away casually is at least Superhuman LS as far as I know.
Just tell me why was Kazutora showing expressions of being afraid when Mikey hadn't even attacked him.
Because Mikey questions Kazutora about the Shinichiro incident and Kazutora gets uncomfortable because of that as you can see here:


Secondly, also the fact that Kazutora doesn't attack Mikey in the entire time when Mikey is busy while attacking others? All of that doesn't make sense because Kazutora was done being afraid already.
This just proves that Mikey knocked out Chombo faster than Kazutora could react? What are you even trying to prove here?
You have no proof here to objectify that Mikey is legit blitzing Kazutora here or not.
Kazutora not being able to react to the kick is the proof. What else do you need?
Also, if Chonbo really was sent flying through that, then he should go at least [(0.5*70*27,6*27.6)/(70*9.8)] = 38.8653061 m high and likely die immediately.
I wanna leave all calc related arguments to Zefra as I didn't really look into the calculation so much.
 
In Chapter 265, Mikey mentioned that while attacking Kazutora, he was in dark impulse. In the video as well, Kazutora looks surprisingly terrified of Mikey even though there shouldn't be anything making him afraid. Kazutora was very confident of beating Mikey and that's why, he lured him to a place where Mikey's kicks wouldn't just hit him very well.

Leave that, my point was that Kazutora was just affected by DI aura. In DI state, Mikey has "Aura", and he can visibly scare people. Kazutora being afraid even before the attack happened proves it. Also, when you are not in your senses, dodging might even become impossible for you.
The same chapter shows that Mikey only activated DI after Kisaki mentions that Kazutora lured Baji into Valhalla so that he could kill him.

So, yeah.
 
It's because close to none LS feats of the verse got calculated or evaluated.
Nah bruh, most of the LS feats in the verse aren't even that good except for Taiju's church pew feat.
You didn't say something like that as I remember and It's wrong even if you did. Being able to throw people meters away casually is at least Superhuman LS as far as I know.
I did say that. Secondly, throwing people is not always superhuman LS untill you throw them like 10s of meters away.
Because Mikey questions Kazutora about the Shinichiro incident and Kazutora gets uncomfortable because of that as you can see here:

It's a very bad reason tbh. Kazutora had taken the incident very lightly then. In fact, he wasn't even feeling guilty about his doings and he himself said that he was in the jail because of Mikey even though he should be well aware that he had literally killed someone. I don't think you should be assuming that until it gets confirmed, and it cannot be confirmed and it didn't even happen, because I don't understand why Mikey wouldn't get into DI specially when his DI was made out of love and Shinichiro is the one who is the most related lol.
This just proves that Mikey knocked out Chombo faster than Kazutora could react? What are you even trying to prove here?
You can only argue about that when he lands the kick and even that is extremely impossible lol. He attacked that guy I don't remember name of and even Chonbo could react upto some time, it was a clear as day hit moment for Kazutora
 
Honestly, while that is the only mentioned stuff, I don't need to explain why Mikey even DI in the first place has, it's all because of Shinichiro and his DI is said to be "born out of love". In fact, the chapter also suggests that the amount of darkness also matters. Kisaki was able to provoke more darkness, but we don't know how much Mikey had already built in himself.
 
Honestly, while that is the only mentioned stuff, I don't need to explain why Mikey even DI in the first place has, it's all because of Shinichiro and his DI is said to be "born out of love". In fact, the chapter also suggests that the amount of darkness also matters. Kisaki was able to provoke more darkness, but we don't know how much Mikey had already built in himself.
Nothing really shows Mikey activated DI at that moment, you can't really make a bold claim without evidences.
 
Nah bruh, most of the LS feats in the verse aren't even that good except for Taiju's church pew feat.
The feats Hollow sent are pretty good imo.

I did say that. Secondly, throwing people is not always superhuman LS untill you throw them like 10s of meters away.
I'm pretty sure even lifting a person above the ground is Athletic Human LS. No way throwing someone is Superhuman when it's only 10s of meters away.

You can only argue about that when he lands the kick and even that is extremely impossible lol. He attacked that guy I don't remember name of and even Chonbo could react upto some time, it was a clear as day hit moment for Kazutora
but he couldn't react to the "clear as day" hit? This just proves my point even more.
Honestly, while that is the only mentioned stuff, I don't need to explain why Mikey even DI in the first place has, it's all because of Shinichiro and his DI is said to be "born out of love". In fact, the chapter also suggests that the amount of darkness also matters. Kisaki was able to provoke more darkness, but we don't know how much Mikey had already built in himself.
don't understand where you're going with this tbh.
 
Yes, it should.

You can ask for CGM opinions in CRTs as well.
  • If there exist conflicting accepted calculations for the same feat, the calc group members should discuss which ones that are most reliable to use in their own forum. The calc group is free to ask for relevant information from reliable members, by using the knowledgeable members list for verses or the associated verse page list of supporters. After a decision has been reached, and the most reliable calculations have been selected, a discussion should be started in the content revision forum to decide which characters that should scale to the feats.

So can I please just ask some CGMs to see this or do we need to just discuss by our own for no reason? The only purpose of this thread is to see which calc is more reliable and not if it's an outlier or anything, the thread for adding it will be open right after this one, and I really don't want 10000 replies like the small revision which will probably get ignored because it's full of texts when it should be something fast to pass.
 
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Nothing really shows Mikey activated DI at that moment, you can't really make a bold claim without evidences.
Nothing showed Mikey activating DI before we reached the final arc. But for starters, I would mention that he is surprisingly ruthless and more determined to kill. Almost like he gained a lot of battle IQ. Secondly, Mikey had already mentioned he had "darkness" inside him already, and he also asked Kisaki to get more and more "darkness", I don't know any reason to try proving it.
The feats Hollow sent are pretty good imo.
You would think that. LS is a complex thing; you can't really judge a feat calc to be good already. But still, I would tell you now.
1. Baji getting thrown by a random goon is a good feat but the frame calc makes it useless, anime don't maintain consistent 24 FPS.
2. The three calcs are Taiju throwing church pew which I never disagreed with.
3. Terano throwing Inupi is Cloudyagami's calc where he finds the force and thought that it's in kilograms and just gives it a "Class 5" rating.
I'm pretty sure even lifting a person above the ground is Athletic Human LS. No way throwing someone is Superhuman when it's only 10s of meters away.
LOL, you wish. Just lifting a person is above average human until that person is above 120 kg.
but he couldn't react to the "clear as day" hit? This just proves my point even more.
Bro stop defending, I am not even mentioning about the kick. 💀
I am talking about everything which happens between Mikey mentioning about his brother and the kick, not the attack to Kazutora. Kazutora had a lot of time to attack. I am not going to reply to your comments if you mindlessly replied to them without understanding what I am trying to say.
don't understand where you're going with this tbh.

💀 Just proving that DI exists way before that.

  • If there exist conflicting accepted calculations for the same feat, the calc group members should discuss which ones that are most reliable to use in their own forum. The calc group is free to ask for relevant information from reliable members, by using the knowledgeable members list for verses or the associated verse page list of supporters. After a decision has been reached, and the most reliable calculations have been selected, a discussion should be started in the content revision forum to decide which characters that should scale to the feats.

So can I please just ask some CGMs to see this or do we need to just discuss by our own for no reason? The only purpose of this thread is to see which calc is more reliable and not if it's an outlier or anything, the thread for adding it will be open right after this one, and I really don't want 10000 replies like the small revision which will probably get ignored because it's full of texts when it should be something fast to pass.
That's good. But I would say you should make this a CRT. You see, apart from the fact of whether the kick being a blitz or not, CGMs cannot argue about the feat. But eh, that should be done. I am tired of trying to explain already.
 
Nothing showed Mikey activating DI before we reached the final arc.
But they are shown in the flashbacks, like the one right now.
But for starters, I would mention that he is surprisingly ruthless and more determined to kill. Almost like he gained a lot of battle IQ.
Doesn't mean he's on DI, I mean just look what Kazutora said about Mikey's older brother, I bet a lot of people will react the same way as Mikey did.
Secondly, Mikey had already mentioned he had "darkness" inside him already, and he also asked Kisaki to get more and more "darkness", I don't know any reason to try proving it.
Yeah he has it since he was a kid, that doesn't mean he's on DI mode everytime lol.
The following panels clearly showed that the impulses were activated only after what Kisaki said, not before.
Like it's extremely simple.
 
You would think that. LS is a complex thing; you can't really judge a feat calc to be good already. But still, I would tell you now.
1. Baji getting thrown by a random goon is a good feat but the frame calc makes it useless, anime don't maintain consistent 24 FPS.
2. The three calcs are Taiju throwing church pew which I never disagreed with.
3. Terano throwing Inupi is Cloudyagami's calc where he finds the force and thought that it's in kilograms and just gives it a "Class 5" rating.
1. I don't think Anime timeframe is good to use.
2. Ok.
3. It's still at least Peak Human-Class 1 tho
LOL, you wish. Just lifting a person is above average human until that person is above 120 kg.
depends on the distance you lift them I'm pretty sure.

I am talking about everything which happens between Mikey mentioning about his brother and the kick, not the attack to Kazutora. Kazutora had a lot of time to attack. I am not going to reply to your comments if you mindlessly replied to them without understanding what I am trying to say.
I already explained that? The Shinichiro incident is a traumatic moment for Kazutora. That's why he couldn't do anything.
 
Guys I am sorry if I cannot reply. But I just came to know that only CGMs are allowed to discuss in these threads with the OP (unless normal members have good information). Also, I request everyone to not do it until this becomes a CRT. Sincere apologies to Zefra for that. 🙏
 
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I made a recalculation for this feat:

Original calc

Recalc


Problems with the original calc:

- Assumes by default that kick is 34 m/s without actually calculating it.

- Uses 1 s (based on the anime) as time frame for the entire kick when the whole thing happens in 3 - 4 s and it doesn't take in account the acceleration blitzed the guy.


This upgrades the feat from peak human to class 10, 25 if we account he does it with a single limb.
LS Feats from characters being launched from strikes like punches or kicks aren't accepted.
 
I'm not calculating the launch, I'm calculating he moved 70kg all the way to Kazutora head making the 70 kg accelerate, we should wait for CGMs inputs tho.
 
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