BIGGEST Tokyo Revengers Dowgrade Calculations Heheh

[Clout5560]

You're speaking fax lol, but the reason why I said it was because I was being generous and I know the pain of getting a calc rejected, so I just though suggesting some changes wouldn't be bad. My inner voice tells me that the feat is not even legible to be calculated by putting an assumed timeframe.

It was accepted by klol. This forum is taking Tokyo Revengers down alot. The verse will be moved to sub+ to transonic at this rate.
It’s not looking good for them.

 

[RoggerReggor]

It was accepted by klol. This forum is taking Tokyo Revengers down alot. The verse will be moved to sub+ to transonic at this rate.
It’s not looking good for them.

Maybe. I have a subsonic+ calc for the verse too.

Taiju disappeared from the sight when Mikey kicked him. Mikey moved his legs 180deg or 3.141592653589. Mikey's leg would be 0.8 m through this.

3.141592653589*0.8 = 2.51327412 m

The processing speed of an eye is 0.013 seconds. So, the speed would be 2.51327412/0.013 = 193.328778 m/s (subsonic+).

 

[Clout5560]

Maybe. I have a subsonic+ calc for the verse too.

Taiju disappeared from the sight when Mikey kicked him. Mikey moved his legs 180deg or 3.141592653589. Mikey's leg would be 0.8 m through this
(editing, i sent it before by mistake)

It’s Been calculated before. It was taken down.
Anyways back to topic. What do you we need to apply these changes? I feel like we should get morris, mastrad and others to defend their points but I don’t know.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Mikey lifts Chonbo with one leg
First of all, the velocity assumed is 34.3 m/s. There are no good proofs for why it should be 34.4 m/s lol. And the timeframe they say in the calculation is 1 second through the anime adaptation. Mikey's leg should be 0.8 m through this. He moved his leg for 180deg for a roundhouse kick. The distance would be 3.14*0.8 = 2.512 m. Now, if the guy basically assumed the timeframe as 1 second, then the velocity would be 2.512/1 = 2.512 m/s. And if he assumed that the velocity is 34.3 m/s, then the timeframe would be 2.512/34.3 = 0.0732361516 seconds. Nothing adds up and even though the calc was revised, I disagree with it. The most I can say is that we should ask the one who evaluated it. And also, my another problem with this calc is that how do you assume that the speed would be 34.3 m/s when Chonbo had enough time to say, "He is lifting me up with his leg?" with surprise. That speechline would take around 2 seconds at least, so I don't think you possible can do that.

@Second22 What's your opinion about this LS calc? If you agree with my opinion, please add this to your thread as well.

 

[Clout5560]

Maybe. I have a subsonic+ calc for the verse too.

Taiju disappeared from the sight when Mikey kicked him. Mikey moved his legs 180deg or 3.141592653589. Mikey's leg would be 0.8 m through this.

3.141592653589*0.8 = 2.51327412 m

The processing speed of an eye is 0.013 seconds. So, the speed would be 2.51327412/0.013 = 193.328778 m/s (subsonic+).

Ouch. You can’t use 0.013 unfortunately. The wiki doesn’t accept it.

 

[RoggerReggor]

It’s Been calculated before. It was taken down.
Anyways back to topic. What do you we need to apply these changes? I feel like we should get morris, mastrad and others to defend their points but I don’t know.

It isn't like we are going to apply these changes in one day. It would take at least a week. I am still waiting for KLOL to finish his exams and give his opinion on the WR students bump from like half a month because I don't want the changes to get debunked as soon as they are applied. Morris, Mastrad and others would eventually notice this thread and comment their opinions. If they even miss the opportunity, they can always make an upgrade rebunk thread where they can give an argument.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Ouch. You can’t use 0.013 unfortunately. The wiki doesn’t accept it.

There's a CSM (chainsaw man) calc which accepts this. The wiki just treats perceiving and processing differently.

 

[Second22]

From blur, I mean the manga motion drawings. And by the value, I mean why the subsonic perception is used, I suggest using 0.02 seconds, as it was used for calculating the blur design feats from manga even 2 years ago on this platform.

It's not necessary to calculate. Blurriness has many factors, such as drawing techniques and the degree of blurriness. I didn't see Izana moving blurry all the way, and the characters in the manga didn't see Izana moving blurry either. Creating a short blur isn't that difficult. Try moving your hand quickly and look at your hand movement.

 

[RoggerReggor]

It's not necessary to calculate. Blurriness has many factors, such as drawing techniques and the degree of blurriness. I didn't see Izana moving blurry all the way, and the characters in the manga didn't see Izana moving blurry either. Creating a short blur isn't that difficult. Try moving your hand quickly and look at your hand movement.

Thanks for the explanation, I could have proved myself subsonic if you never explained this to me. The Izana dashing at Mikey calc doesn't seem correct to me at all now.

 

[Second22]

I think if we use projectile motion, we may get better results from the movement of the church pew. What do you think about this?

I don't think it's necessary to that extent. It's true that getting accurate results is good, but this calculation hardly affect this verse at all. I don't think we need to worry about it to that extent. If you want to try, go ahead, but I'm too lazy to bother with it. Haha

 

[Shadow_x007x]

I don't think it's necessary to that extent. It's true that getting accurate results is good, but this calculation hardly affect this verse at all. I don't think we need to worry about it to that extent. If you want to try, go ahead, but I'm too lazy to bother with it. Haha

No problem. I tried calculating using the projectile method and we get a result of 9-C, which is slightly higher than before

Tokyo Revengers - Taiju Destroys a church pew (KE)

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[RoggerReggor]

@Second22 What's your opinion about this LS calc? If you agree with my opinion, please add this to your thread as well.

@Second22 If Taiju's calc gets downgraded, the only calc with TR for LS would be this. What do you think about my opinion? I personally think that assuming a velocity is not exactly correct here. Specially when Chonbo's voice line is already taking too long?

 

[Second22]

Ngl, I don't have enough knowledge in this area to answer what is right or wrong. I think you should ask CGMs instead. I'm not even sure that kicking is LS or not.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Ngl, I don't have enough knowledge in this area to answer what is right or wrong. I think you should ask CGMs instead. I'm not even sure that kicking is LS or not.

For sure, I will make a thread once all of this has settled.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Also, KLOL himself made a downgrade calc for Baji cratering the wall: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KLOL506/Tokyo_Revengers:_Baji_Makes_a_Crater which was also evaluated by a CGM. Don't know why the previous 148 kJ calc is still on the verse page, or is it a mistake?

 

[CorbinMLG]

How is that related to the movement of 7.3400238 m?

He moved from that distance right after the first bullet was shot.

Ultimately, it was still a matter of random number selection and movement of 1 meter. Draken didn't need to move 1 meter in that timeframe. He just moved in before the gun fired. If asked why the shooter didn't notice Draken, it's simply because Draken was faster than their eyes could react to respond that he was there in front of them. Therefore, this may just be an FTE feat.

So you are saying that he was already within 1 meter before the first bullet was shot? That doesn't work because then he would have punched the pistol out of the shooter's hand before he could have shot. Why would he even move between the shooter and Takemichi in that case? He had to see the bullets getting shot at Takemichi further from a meter away, which is why he chose to move between the shooter and Takemichi so that he can take the bullets, only punching the shooter afterwards.

 

[Second22]

He moved from that distance right after the first bullet was shot.


So you are saying that he was already within 1 meter before the first bullet was shot? That doesn't work because then he would have punched the pistol out of the shooter's hand before he could have shot. Why would he even move between the shooter and Takemichi in that case? He had to see the bullets getting shot at Takemichi further from a meter away, which is why he chose to move between the shooter and Takemichi so that he can take the bullets, only punching the shooter afterwards.

I never said he moved one meter because we don't know which side he came from. I made it clear that assuming he only moved one meter was invalid. The reason why he didn't snatch the gun from the shooter is simple: the distance to the gun may be longer than the distance he traveled to get to where we saw him. So, he could only move towards between the shooter and Takemichi.

 

[RoggerReggor]

He moved from that distance right after the first bullet was shot.

Where's the proof for that? Kakucho had enough time to scream and run towards Kisaki. Isn't Izana faster than Kakucho? And if Kakucho is even subsonic, shouldn't he himself be able to close the distance between them in the time where he screamed and Kisaki said "Die."? The best thing we can do is to wait for an anime adaptation, which wouldn't take so long. Because you can't possibly assume the time for when Izana started running or when Kisaki fired the gun.

So you are saying that he was already within 1 meter before the first bullet was shot? That doesn't work because then he would have punched the pistol out of the shooter's hand before he could have shot. Why would he even move between the shooter and Takemichi in that case? He had to see the bullets getting shot at Takemichi further from a meter away, which is why he chose to move between the shooter and Takemichi so that he can take the bullets, only punching the shooter afterwards.

Ok, so you are talking about common sense. So according to you, if Izana was already within a meter, he should be able to punch the pistol out of Kisaki's hand. But let me try to give a common sense for common sense. Why didn't Mikey chase Kisaki when he ran away on a bike? The fastest bike available in today's world is 350 mph or 156.464 m/s, so shouldn't Mikey be able to at least give him a chase even on an initial level if he was already supersonic+?

I understand that what we see are calcs, but even saying that "He could have punched the pistol out of shooter's hand if he was that near" is nothing more than an assumption of what could have happened instead of what actually happened.

 

[CorbinMLG]

I never said he moved one meter because we don't know which side he came from.

We do know. He couldn't come from behind the shooters or from behind Takemichi and Senju for obvious reasons, and he couldn't come from the shooter's right side because there is literally a wall there. He came from the shooter's left side, exactly from where Senju came from earlier.

I made it clear that assuming he only moved one meter was invalid.

If you want to make it more that's fine, this is an extreme lowball. Making it less isn't fine.

The reason why he didn't snatch the gun from the shooter is simple: the distance to the gun may be longer than the distance he traveled to get to where we saw him. So, he could only move towards between the shooter and Takemichi.

The gun should be closer. If he saw the situation from 20 meters for example, he wouldn't have ran towards Takemichi but towards the gun.

Where's the proof for that? Kakucho had enough time to scream and run towards Kisaki. Isn't Izana faster than Kakucho? And if Kakucho is even subsonic, shouldn't he himself be able to close the distance between them in the time where he screamed and Kisaki said "Die."? The best thing we can do is to wait for an anime adaptation, which wouldn't take so long. Because you can't possibly assume the time for when Izana started running or when Kisaki fired the gun.

Izana had no conscious intentions of saving Kakucho, so there is no reason for him to move from where he was just seconds ago. His body moved on its own after seeing the first bullet being shot.

So according to you, if Izana was already within a meter, he should be able to punch the pistol out of Kisaki's hand.

Yes that would make more sense, but he wasn't thinking when doing it because his body moved on its own. His subconscious feelings likely just gave his body the command to save Kakucho in the quickest way possible, which was this.

Why didn't Mikey chase Kisaki when he ran away on a bike? The fastest bike available in today's world is 350 mph or 156.464 m/s, so shouldn't Mikey be able to at least give him a chase even on an initial level if he was already supersonic+?

Even if we ignore these two calculations, there are still feats that would get Mikey above that. Dumb inconsistencies like that are pretty common, not just in Tokyo Revengers.

I understand that what we see are calcs, but even saying that "He could have punched the pistol out of shooter's hand if he was that near" is nothing more than an assumption of what could have happened instead of what actually happened.

You are also assuming the opposite, difference is that what you are assuming is irrational.

 

[CorbinMLG]

You cannot use both calculations from the same feats. It is necessary to discuss which calculation to use.

They are different feats by the way.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Izana had no conscious intentions of saving Kakucho, so there is no reason for him to move from where he was just seconds ago. His body moved on its own after seeing the first bullet being shot.

Ok, I agree to that, but how can you say that his body moved on its own after seeing the first bullet being shot? Kakucho had enough time to scream and run forward and Kisaki had already made it clear that he was going to get rid of Kakucho by saying "You're a goddamn nuisance.". If Izana's body moved on its own after comprehending the fact that Kakucho would die, cannot he already make a run for it once Kakucho starts running towards Kisaki?

Yes that would make more sense, but he wasn't thinking when doing it because his body moved on its own. His subconscious feelings likely just gave his body the command to save Kakucho in the quickest way possible, which was this.

You are saying that Izana could have punched the weapon out of Kisaki's hand. And it is just an assumption, you aren't giving up any proofs for that but just stating psychological statements that why Izana would want to do that, but not noticing his physical limitations.

Even if we ignore these two calculations, there are still feats that would get Mikey above that. Dumb inconsistencies like that are pretty common, not just in Tokyo Revengers.

I myself said that what matter is calc, so there's no need to reply to this when this isn't even a point.

You are also assuming the opposite, difference is that what you are assuming is irrational.

I am assuming? I am actually not. What I am doing is agreeing with the thread starter. There's a difference between saying why it is bad to assume and assuming itself.

 

[Kachon123]

I'll probably comment on everything else later, but I completely disagree with the first part of th OP, saying that destruction values are randomly chosen.

People do intensive research to find these values and use actual math yo determine which works. Even more discussion is then had to see which of the values work best.

I think it's quite insensitive and ignorant to say that.

 

[Second22]

We do know. He couldn't come from behind the shooters or from behind Takemichi and Senju for obvious reasons, and he couldn't come from the shooter's right side because there is literally a wall there. He came from the shooter's left side, exactly from where Senju came from earlier.

He doesn't necessarily have to come from the side or back. We can assume that he came at a 45-degree angle from Takemichi. That makes the distance from the gun farther away from Takemichi. Honestly, this assumption and calculation are too much. The feat is just blocking bullets. We don't really know if he moved at the exact moment the gun was fired, and the direction of movement is still random. We can assume a lot from this situation.

 

[Second22]

I'll probably comment on everything else later, but I completely disagree with the first part of th OP, saying that destruction values are randomly chosen.

People do intensive research to find these values and use actual math yo determine which works. Even more discussion is then had to see which of the values work best.

I think it's quite insensitive and ignorant to say that.

I clearly stated that in some situations, do you think destruction values give accurate values every time? It is an easy and approximate way to obtain results. We do not need to use destruction values every time for finding the solution, as using kinetic energy would give more logical and accurate results. Or do you think in this situation, destruction values give more accurate results than KE?

 

[RoggerReggor]

He doesn't necessarily have to come from the side or back. We can assume that he came at a 45-degree angle from Takemichi. That makes the distance from the gun farther away from Takemichi. Honestly, this assumption and calculation are too much. The feat is just blocking bullets. We don't really know if he moved at the exact moment the gun was fired, and the direction of movement is still random. We can assume a lot from this situation.

Fr, Senju was also already making a run for it before the gun was even fired. Draken might be doing the same ngl.

 

[CorbinMLG]

Ok, I agree to that, but how can you say that his body moved on its own after seeing the first bullet being shot? Kakucho had enough time to scream and run forward and Kisaki had already made it clear that he was going to get rid of Kakucho by saying "You're a goddamn nuisance.". If Izana's body moved on its own after comprehending the fact that Kakucho would die, cannot he already make a run for it once Kakucho starts running towards Kisaki?

Because the sight of the gun being shot works as visual stimuli that triggered it. If it would have been a matter of his body just comprehending the fact that Kakucho would die he could have moved far sooner. He could have even stopped Kakucho from running to begin with.

You are saying that Izana could have punched the weapon out of Kisaki's hand. And it is just an assumption, you aren't giving up any proofs for that but just stating psychological statements that why Izana would want to do that, but not noticing his physical limitations.

He wasn't even less than a meter away from Kisaki, you started this out hypothetically, don't know what proof you want. Izana being able to do that if not for his body moving on its own isn't even debatable because he can blitz Kisaki easily. The psychological things I'm talking about are literally what happening though, not sure what your problem is with them either. Consciously he views Kakucho as a servant and nothing more, someone who he doesn't care about at all. His true feelings are completely different on the other hand, but he isn't aware of them and he doesn't recognize them. His body follows his true feelings and makes him move instinctually after being triggered by the gun shot. The goal of his body was just to save Kakucho no matter what, so he jumped in front of him and pushed him away, even if it resulted in injuring himself.

I am assuming? I am actually not. What I am doing is agreeing with the thread starter. There's a difference between saying why it is bad to assume and assuming itself.

To be more precise, the thread starter is assuming a more illogical sequence of events than what I'm assuming. If it comes down to two assumptions the rational one should be the one we go with.

He doesn't necessarily have to come from the side or back. We can assume that he came at a 45-degree angle from Takemichi. That makes the distance from the gun farther away from Takemichi. Honestly, this assumption and calculation are too much. The feat is just blocking bullets. We don't really know if he moved at the exact moment the gun was fired, and the direction of movement is still random. We can assume a lot from this situation.

He had to come from around 135-150 degrees to the shooter's left from where Senju came from, or around 60-80 degrees to the shooter's left from the other side of the restroom. Either way he was around in the middle or closer to the shooter, especially in the second case. (The degrees are just rough estimates, I just want you to know what places I'm talking about)

 

[Second22]

He had to come from around 135-150 degrees to the shooter's left from where Senju came from, or around 60-80 degrees to the shooter's left from the other side of the restroom. Either way he was closer to the shooter, especially in the second case. (The degrees are just rough estimates, I just want you to know what places I'm talking about)

Regardless, that's not the reason why he moved one meter in that timeframe. Draken reached for the gun, but he was still shot. The shooter couldn't see Draken, but just at the moment the bullet was fired, Draken was hit. He was about to swipe or push the gun away, but at that moment, he couldn't reach the gun, and Draken was still shot. So, his speed is not related to the timeframe in which the bullet was fired. He just couldn't get there in time when the gun was fired.

 

[Second22]

Why don't we just wait for this scene in the anime to come out?

 

[CorbinMLG]

Regardless, that's not the reason why he moved one meter in that timeframe. Draken reached for the gun, but he was still shot. The shooter couldn't see Draken, but just at the moment the bullet was fired, Draken was hit. He was about to swipe or push the gun away, but at that moment, he couldn't reach the gun, and Draken was still shot. So, his speed is not related to the timeframe in which the bullet was fired. He just couldn't get there in time when the gun was fired.

You shouldn't disregard where he came from like that. My entire point with this is that he couldn't come from an angle where Takemichi was just so much closer to him than the shooter that all he could do is just jump in front of Takemichi in time. From every angle if he got within a meter he could have punched the pistol out of the shooter's hand from his left side before he could do anything. The fact that he still ended up moving in front of the bullets means he was further than a meter away at the time the gun was shot, and since he couldn't just punch the pistol out of the shooter's hand at that point, he had to move in front of the bullets, because that was the only way to save Takemichi.

 

[Second22]

You shouldn't disregard where he came from like that. My entire point with this is that he couldn't come from an angle where Takemichi was just so much closer to him than the shooter that all he could do is just jump in front of Takemichi in time. From every angle if he got within a meter he could have punched the pistol out of the shooter's hand from his left side before he could do anything. The fact that he still ended up moving in front of the bullets means he was further than a meter away at the time the gun was shot, and since he couldn't just punch the pistol out of the shooter's hand at that point, he had to move in front of the bullets, because that was the only way to save Takemichi.

I still don't understand why the gun is much closer than Takemichi's range, because I haven't read the manga. What I saw was only the feat calculation image. Can you explain and add a scan?

 

[Kachon123]

Or do you think in this situation, destruction values give more accurate results than KE?

Unless the throw has a specific stated speed, using the destruction value makes more sense here.

 

[Second22]

Unless the throw has a specific stated speed, using the destruction value makes more sense here.

There is this scene in Anime, we can find speed. And the destruction value is not reasonable at all. KLOL already stated that the destroyed volume may be much less than 25%. So we can't find a clear volume, KE seems more reasonable.

 

[CorbinMLG]

I still don't understand why the gun is much closer than Takemichi's range, because I haven't read the manga. What I saw was only the feat calculation image. Can you explain and add a scan?

Here.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Izana dashes at Mikey​

This may not be a downgrade because I'm not sure, but I want to know how to use Subsonic Perception correctly. This problem has arisen again, haha. But I still don't really understand this method, even though there are clear rules about it. I've never been explained this problem clearly.

1. Reaction speed has both a distance and a timeframe component, so all calculations that are completed for reaction speed cannot simply be a timeframe by itself. Do not randomly assume a 1 meter distance for each timeframe and use that speed for the reaction speed. Other way around, perception time is just a timeframe and by that not proportional to a speed value alone. Do not assume that a character with a certain speed will have a perception time of 1 meter divided by that speed. Such calculations need a feat that demonstrates perception time and a suitable distance determined from that feat.

What would be the alternative? I've seen some scales using baseline Subsonic reaction speeds for characters from different verse and CGMs don't seem to have a problem with it. I think it can be used for X character being comparable or fighting on par with Y character who can fight at FTE or above speeds.

Draken saves Takemitchi from bullets​

This is a very random number. Assuming a movement of 1 m and a distance of 0.4 m is too much speculation, resulting in possibly inaccurate results, Not even using Pixel Scaling in the calculation. I don't know what else to say about the problem because I think this is not something that can be calculated accurately from the beginning.

I think that was accepted because of the order of the panels. If you look at the 2nd panel of the 2nd scan here, it's clear that it was Draken's movement. An argument can also be made that Draken came before the shots, and the goon shot him and after that Draken knocked the gun away, but it wouldn't make sense that the goon trigger speed would be faster than Draken's attack speed. Also Corbin already made a recalc of this.

Izana saves Kakucho from bullets​

Firstly, we did not see if Izana actually moved 7.3400238 meters in that timeframe. We do not know if he started moving when the gun was actually fired. He may have started moving before the gun was fired. So, Izana's clear movement in that timeframe was only 1.09798663467 meters from the movement of his arm. Assuming that he started running from a distance of 7.3400238 meters may not be accurate.

• 381 * 1.09798663467/2.72716263388 = 153.394925045 m/s (Subsonic)

I wholeheartedly and utterly disagree with this, I think you should first look at the context behind the feat, Izana moving before the shot would most likely mean he made a conscious decision, but that's not the case, he literally had a mental breakdown and he doesn't care about the situation, and he said that his body moved on its own, indicating his actions are triggered by something, and here the most obvious answer would be the gun being fired.

I think others are alright

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I should also mention the debunk that it all happend at the same time. I dont know if this has been discussed but there was a debunk that izana was already there when kisaki shot and it all happend at the same time. They proved this by using the term bang in each panel. Proving that its happening simultaneously. Thats what Ive heard, I really dont know.

That argument comes from people who have zero idea how to read a manga, reading starts from right to left in Tokyo revengers, and if you look at the panel, the first "bang" sound effect was exclusively shown on Kisaki's panel, meaning Kisaki shot the gun first, Izana's movement was only shown during the 2nd and 3rd shot

 

[Second22]

What would be the alternative? I've seen some scales using baseline Subsonic reaction speeds for characters from different verse and CGMs don't seem to have a problem with it. I think it can be used for X character being comparable or fighting on par with Y character who can fight at FTE or above speeds.

It's not even a Blitz. Please read the entire thread to the end.

here

Where is Draken?

I wholeheartedly and utterly disagree with this, I think you should first look at the context behind the feat, Izana moving before the shot would most likely mean he made a conscious decision, but that's not the case, he literally had a mental breakdown and he doesn't care about the situation, and he said that his body moved on its own, indicating his actions are triggered by something, and here the most obvious answer would be the gun being fired.

Once again, we didn't see him start moving at any point. What you're saying is only speculation. The gun had already been fired before that. He didn't need to move from 7 meters away.

 

[CorbinMLG]

It's not even a Blitz. Please read the entire thread to the end.

The guy who says "that was fast" is around the guy who screams Mikey speed wise, and he got utterly destroyed. By "that was fast" he doesn't just mean somewhat fast, but really really fast.

Once again, we didn't see him start moving at any point. What you're saying is only speculation. The gun had already been fired before that. He didn't need to move from 7 meters away.

Did you even read what I said?

 

[Second22]

I think that was accepted because of the order of the panels. If you look at the 2nd panel of the 2nd scan here, it's clear that it was Draken's movement. An argument can also be made that Draken came before the shots, and the goon shot him and after that Draken knocked the gun away, but it wouldn't make sense that the goon trigger speed would be faster than Draken's attack speed. Also Corbin already made a recalc of this.

It's natural that he had to move to protect Takemitchi. The movement we see in picture 2 is when he fired the gun, not when Draken moved to block the bullet. From the picture, we can interpret it as Draken moving in to block the bullet, and then the gun was fired. After that, Draken swept the gun away, and it wasn't necessary for him to move under the frame when the bullet was fired.

 

[Second22]

Did you even read what I said?

When did you talk about the calculation of Izana saving Kakucho from bullets?

 

[CorbinMLG]

When did you talk about the calculation of Izana saving Kakucho from bullets?

When I was talking to @RoggerReggor.