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Battle of Sword Saints (Hinata Sakaguchi vs Reinhard van Astrea) (GRACE!!!)

God900 said:
If you are gonna argue he can face off against people who can fight him with Reid, then you can say Reid would be boasting his stats.
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No, that just means he can fight them with Reid because Reid has the strength to fight them, nothing there is indicative of stat boosting.

God900 said:
That's why his Striking strenght and Durability is stated as "possibly"
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I did just explain to you that it doesn't work that way. It's Reid with those stats, not Reinhard holding Reid and then being buffed. Equipment can have their own stats listed and it's exactly why Reinhard doesn't have a second key.

It isn't "up to me to think what I want", it's just you not understanding how the statistics work. This isn't an issue with my perception, the page is written the way it is for a reason.
 
Abstractions said:
No, that just means he can fight them with Reid because Reid has the strength to fight them, nothing there is indicative of stat boosting.


I did just explain to you that it doesn't work that way. It's Reid with those stats, not Reinhard holding Reid and then being buffed. Equipment can have their own stats listed and it's exactly why Reinhard doesn't have a second key.

It isn't "up to me to think what I want", it's just you not understanding how the statistics work. This isn't an issue with my perception, the page is written the way it is for a reason.
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Then fix the profile.

In the profile in striking strenght section, he has the High 6-C Durability, in His Durability section aswell.

If it was only the sword, it should been stated, for example, that he has X striking strenght or Durability due to the sword.
But sadly it's not listed like that in the profile.
That's how it's written on the profile u like or not.

And again, that's why is listed as a possibility, not a solid rating

And I meantioned Pegasus argument becouse he is even more of an expert of the verse than me, even if I've already read the recent chapter of the Re: Zero novel.

Again, it's not recommend it to talk about a specific rating from a verse that works in a particular way, when you have little to zero knowledge of the verse.
Becouse you clearly don't know how things could work in that verse.

Anyways, as I said, I already gave my peace, I'm unfollowing this thread now.
 
God900 said:
Then fix the profile.
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You are free to consider Wolverine's claws an amp to 3-C if you'd like, but I'm not going to be the only person to tell you that you're incorrect for thinking so.

God900 said:
If it was only the sword, it should been stated, for example, that he has X striking strenght or Durability due to the sword.
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That is exactly what it says on the page, you're just reading it wrong.

God900 said:
Again, it's not recommend it to talk about a specific rating from a verse that works in a particular way, when you have little to zero knowledge of the verse.
Becouse you clearly don't know how things could work in that verse.
Click to expand...
And it's not recommended to speak on things you know nothing about, like my knowledge of the series. All this does is serve to jeopardize your credibility if anything as you are willing to poison the well rather than admit you're reading a page wrong.

God900 said:
Anyways, as I said, I already gave my peace, I'm unfollowing this thread now.
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That's fine, but I do recommend brushing up on your understanding of statistics for your sake because you're wildly misinterpreting them. Thanks!
 
Abstractions said:
That is exactly what it says on the page, you're just reading it wrong.
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Striking Strength: City Class, possibly Large Island Class with Dragon Sword Reid

Durability: City level, possibly Large Island level with Dragon Sword Reid (Can fight Satella in an endless battle)


It doesn't specify if only the sword has the Durability or striking strenght, but rather saying that Reinhard along with the sword has such statistics.

That's what I was refering to, and sorry if I lost my cold here, I recognize I sounded a bit aggresive.
My bad.
 
God is correct in that the assumption is the sword amps Reinhard.

You can make that interpretation, the God tier are up to interpretation, if it's that big a deal, we could just move the stats, giving Reinhard a with Reid key.

You could make that argument about Cecilius with his swords too, overall these things are gonna be interpretive until we see the characters in action.
 
You basically argued the sword doesn't scale to Reinhard stats, i am saying you can very well argue it.
Abstractions said:
That isn't what the page says, it's indicating that the stats of the sword are that, not himself.

To further this, the P&A lists Statistics Amplification for specific blessings, but nothing about Reid. All of the High 6-C statistics are Reid's.
Click to expand...

Cecilius base stats so to speak seem to be far above people like Julius, but clearly not Reinhard level. His swordsmanship is said to be Wilhelm level, though you can maybe argue swordsmanship isn't equal to strength, however its also stated Theresia would give him a good fight. The conditions of that fight aren't stated, so you could take it as a Cecilius without his best swords.

A nerfed Reinhard, one who was intentionally letting himself be weakened by a collar in Ex Novel 4 was able to causally beat Cecilius however as stated by Cecilius himself and shown in the Wrath If, he performs better with his best swords, even going as far as severely wounding Reinhard with Reid drawn.

You can very much say it's likely Cecilius best swords boost him, as he harmed a unnerfed Reinhard in terms of physical stats (his blessings were weakened however) and both those swords, Murasame and Masayume, along with Reid are classified as enchanted swords, and even seem to have a will of their own, though Reid is said to be the greatest.

Also in the Wrath If, Reinhard with Reid was unleashing attacks which shook the whole building, clearly aoe like he normally does, and that seemingly went for a while, Cecilius would probably himself likely/possibly to be as durable to survive, as his swords unlike Reid so far have shown no energy blast aoe stuff to even counter Reid's.

Anyway a lot of stuff involving the god tiers are still shrouded in mystery, heck Reinhard vs Cecilus in the If was offscreen, so how stuff scales is open to interpretation, but we have a definitive tier for Reid, honestly not too concerned how it's rated on Reinhard's profile for now.
 
Celestial_Pegasus said:
A nerfed Reinhard, one who was intentionally letting himself be weakened by a collar in Ex Novel 4 was able to causally beat Cecilius however as stated by Cecilius himself and shown in the Wrath If, he performs better with his best swords, even going as far as severely wounding Reinhard with Reid drawn.
Click to expand...
Because his best swords are by themselves stronger and thus able to hurt someone who is stronger than the base user, that isn't unreasonable. You also seem to be operating under the principle that Reinhard receives a boost with Reid drawn when it'd actually be more consistent to say he doesn't here, the sword is stronger than the base wielder.

Celestial_Pegasus said:
You can very much say it's likely Cecilius best swords boost him, as he harmed a unnerfed Reinhard in terms of physical stats (his blessings were weakened however) and both those swords, Murasame and Masayume, along with Reid are classified as enchanted swords, and even seem to have a will of their own, though Reid is said to be the greatest.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the fact that they are enchanted blades lend credence to the idea that they hold unnatural power over the wielder, and thus don't require the user to be boosted to damage stronger things?

Celestial_Pegasus said:
Also in the Wrath If, Reinhard with Reid was unleashing attacks which shook the whole building, clearly aoe like he normally does, and that seemingley went for a while, Cecilius would probably himself likely/possibly to be as durable to survive, as his swords unlike Reid so far have shown no energy blast aoe stuff to even counter Reid's.
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing why this would be necessary, you yourself even note that it's just a possibility and not a fact.

Celestial_Pegasus said:
Anyway a lot of stuff involving the god tiers are still shrouded in mystery, heck Reinhard vs Cecilus in the If was offscreen, sohow stuff scales is open to interpretation, but we have a definitive tier for Reid.
Click to expand...
A definitive tier for Reid which doesn't scale to its base wielder, yes. It's a weapon with its own separate tiers.

You can bring this to my wall if need be because it seems to be absorbing the thread.
 
Can I just say that this is starting to get way off-topic from OP's thread, and into something that should be discussed in a CRT or smth?
 
We can't operate under any consistency for Reid, cause we haven't seen much of it, you can argue what you think is likely, and i won't really dispute that, but other possibilities also exist.

Cecilius was fodderized by a nerfed Reinhard, not just in ap but speed, even going his fastest, he couldn't keep up with Reinhard, yet with his swords, he can, so a conclusion there is that it's likely boosting his speed, cause there is no way a hypersonic person with a High 6-C sword is gonna severely harm another with FTL speed.

If you assert one thing, it's not gonna be more factual than another, because of the lack of info, that's my stance on this, until we see Reinhard vs another God tier this stuff is gonna be up to debate, also yea i don't think it's appropriate to argue this in this thread.
 
God900 said:
My point regarding Reinhard's stats stays, and Pegasus seems to share the same thoughts aswell.
Click to expand...
He argues from possibility and I would have continued the conversation had he simply redirected his post, but alas.

I'll officially put my vote for Hinata then as Reinhard arguments aren't compelling to me.
 
091Franky said:
How many votes are needed because hinata already has 7 votes, the last one from Abstractions
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I never saw Abstractions cast a vote
Did he?

Abstractions said:
He argues from possibility and I would have continued the conversation had he simply redirected his post, but alas.

I'll officially put my vote for Hinata then as Reinhard arguments aren't compelling to me.
Click to expand...
Abstract
Did you cast a vote?
 
Nope. It needs to be 8 v 1... Although, Mic, you can vote for Hinata to make the 7 turn to an 8. Yes, OP can vote in their own thread.
 
Abstractions said:
He argues from possibility and I would have continued the conversation had he simply redirected his post, but alas.

I'll officially put my vote for Hinata then as Reinhard arguments aren't compelling to me.
Click to expand...
Alright i shall write the main points of his arguements
1. Reinhard with Reid is 6C and other God tier RZ characters are about the same level in terms of dura and strength since they can go toe to toe with them
2. Base Reinhard in theory should also scale to them
3. Cecilus got a speed and/or strength and/or skill buff due to wielding his 2 legendary swords both of which are inferior to Reid
There is also the fact that he should be able to win or stalemate them without his sword becuz, he is as strong as with a sword as he is without one according to the author. Dont know if that includes reid or not
 
I vote Reinhard becuz even if Hinata got the sword saint blessing, Reinhard would probably get it back instantly and still get in an attack, although Mathematician could possibly make an unexpected move that we arent considering to get her out of the situation
 
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