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Satoru Gojo VS Reinhard Van Astrea PART 2 (3-8-3)

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Yes Arkenis, a body is made up of matter. A body is a material things that is physical. She needs the body because that is the blueprint material for replication and the condition for her ability. Also you are incorrect, here is the raw where she blatantly says physical information and also creates a clear dichotomy between spiritual and physical information as expressed also in the databook.
Translation
The links blocked, but I'm assuming the pic was this one.
FtR5b8S.png

The kanji that's used is
にくたい肉体
You can find this part used in the middle right text bubble where she says "I only summoned the body's information!!"
EzfN44p.png


So again within context of the story and how Yaga and Ogami do their ct, it's through the body's information, this is likely just referring to the dna of the person, not anything fundamental for reality.
 
The links blocked, but I'm assuming the pic was this one.
FtR5b8S.png

The kanji that's used is
にくたい肉体
You can find this part used in the middle right text bubble where she says "I only summoned the body's information!!"
EzfN44p.png


So again within context of the story and how Yaga and Ogami do their ct, it's through the body's information, this is likely just referring to the dna of the person, not anything fundamental for reality.
That is not the whole phrase, you can tell because "physical information" is quoted in the scan. This is the whole phrase
“肉体の情報" which directly correlates to physical information.

Once again, this is established in the databook as well
Welcoming the information of the body and soul of the deceased into a new vessel. Due to the fear of resistance and loss of control, Aunt Ogami is unloading "only physical information"

Once again, unless you think JJK humans are some weird non animal creatures, then body would still be a material thing made up of matter. Mahito wouldn't be able to create metal, etc. Ogami is summoning Toji's information from the ether, which means that information about his body was stored somewhere long after his body no longer remained.

At this point though we can agree to disagree.
 
That is not the whole phrase, you can tell because "physical information" is quoted in the scan. This is the whole phrase
“肉体の情報" which directly correlates to physical information.
It doesn't translate to that.
"肉体" this is the body; the flesh; the outer man; one's physique
"情報" this is information; news; report; intelligence
All you've done is put the kanjis information there? But the first one kanjis there refer to one's body; one's flesh. Look up what those kanjis show and then put it in context with the verse. Yaga and Ogami take from the actual person's body, they require the flesh aka where our DNA is. This is why we see Toji, and the past sorcerers take their physical appearance from the past, cause it's their DNA that's being used.

the only info type 2 in JJk is the body and the soul nothing else, based on using the word "information" which could be used here for other things like DNA, brainwave, personality... not necessarily the fundamental info that made up reality and the only feats of doing this is Mahito and that old lady.
This sums it up well. The word information seems to be taken too literal here and it really shouldn't.
 
yeah, still ain't convinced regular space cut would slash trough infinity mainly because i have no idea it should even work


space slashes don't ignore distance and if i remember gojo's ability correctly, his infinity makes infinite distance between the attack that's threatening him and himself, how would space that's been cut even behave? and is it still "space"? does the concept of distance even work here?

would infinity just seperate the slashed space and gojo?
no, It's not even a real space

infinity is just a barrier surrounding Gojo that divide the distance between Gojo and the barrier, characters can't touch him because the come in contact with this barrier, the space inside is the same just the characters can't bypass the infinity, except by absorbing or nullifying CE of Gojo or nullifying the barrier
or just cover themselves in their own barrier to take care of it, and yes space cut works because Gojo and infinity exist in the real world and have no effect on the actual space.
 
it's not something Gojo casually does in combat, he certainly does not spam it during his Sukuna fight. And even if he had,
This is patently untrue, and quite honestly, I have no idea how you could even feasibly even come to that conclusion. He was doing this since chapter two, against his fight with Sukuna. Then again, against Jogo. You can see it’s practical application even in the recent chapters, when he creates afterimages, or when it’s outright blatantly stated he uses it to increase his speed.


Cool, is he fast enough to activate his perception manipulation? As proven, Gojo constantly uses Blue to amp his stats along with CE.

He has to see the attack for AD to work. Unless it’s proven he can keep up with blitz level amps, it’s not useful.

Instinctive Reaction means nothing unless the AD works first.
 
Cool, is he fast enough to activate his perception manipulation?
It's just a result of being focused while in single combat, it'd activate automatically if an attack that was difficult to dodge was used on him. Additionally while his AD says "Once he has seen an attack once", it doesn't mean he literally must view the attack, he just needs to dodge it, which his Blessing of First Sight covers.

Additionally, Reinhard has strong stat amps as well, as he uses the Flow Method to increase his physical abilities, and has Blessings that boost his power under a blue sky, a rainy sky, a sunny sky, a night sky, a morning sky, and when bleeding.

Most significantly, he passively absorbs an unusually high volume of mana from the inexhaustable supply in the atmosphere to boost his physical abilities tremendously.
 
It's just a result of being focused while in single combat, it'd activate automatically if an attack that was difficult to dodge was used on him.
Being difficult to dodge is a lot different from being completely blitzed. Gojo, while weakened, completely blitzed Mahoraga, who was capable of cutting his arm off before Gojo could do anything to respond. Unless Reinhard can do anything against that, I see no reason why he isn't getting destroyed.


Additionally while his AD says "Once he has seen an attack once", it doesn't mean he literally must view the attack, he just needs to dodge it, which his Blessing of First Sight covers.
Refer to the earlier bit - can he react fast enough?


Additionally, Reinhard has strong stat amps as well, as he uses the Flow Method to increase his physical abilities, and has Blessings that boost his power under a blue sky, a rainy sky, a sunny sky, a night sky, a morning sky, and when bleeding.
How quantifiable are they?


Most significantly, he passively absorbs an unusually high volume of mana from the inexhaustable supply in the atmosphere to boost his physical abilities tremendously.
Refer to earlier question.
 
infinity is just a barrier surrounding Gojo that divide the distance between Gojo and the barrier,
...so a spacial barrier?

infinity is just a spacial barrier that divides 2 seperate spaces?

he explicitly stated when jogo attacked him that what he touched was the infinity between him and the latter

1*QGlixHqzS3bVo9kvfJOlSw.png



not the space seperating the 2

the barrier itself is the infinity that seperates them, it was never really described as a simple space barrier

characters can't touch him because the come in contact with this barrier, the space inside is the same just the characters can't bypass the infinity, except by absorbing or nullifying CE of Gojo or nullifying the barrier
they can't surpass the infinity, yes,

or just cover themselves in their own barrier to take care of it, and yes space cut works because Gojo and infinity exist in the real world and have no effect on the actual space.
...that doesn't mean anything, a space cut would work because infinity is a part of the real world?

can reinhardt slash anything that's part of the world?

..well, no, he kind of can't


isn't infinity just an infinite distance?

infinity is an infinite distance and a space slash should have limited range to how much "space" it can cut so it won't be able to bypass it


oh well, still icon
 
Additionally while his AD says "Once he has seen an attack once", it doesn't mean he literally must view the attack, he just needs to dodge it, which his Blessing of First Sight covers.
and this, what's the best attack that he was shown to easily counter after seeing/dodging it once/ what's the best attack that was shown to be easily countered after being seeing/dodged once, this should quantify and let us set a limit to what he can and can't do


altough with re zero's bs skills feats i doubt it would make a difference
 
...so a spacial barrier?

infinity is just a spacial barrier that divides 2 seperate spaces?

he explicitly stated when jogo attacked him that what he touched was the infinity between him and the latter

1*QGlixHqzS3bVo9kvfJOlSw.png



not the space seperating the 2

the barrier itself is the infinity that seperates them, it was never really described as a simple space barrier


they can't surpass the infinity, yes,


...that doesn't mean anything, a space cut would work because infinity is a part of the real world?

can reinhardt slash anything that's part of the world?

..well, no, he kind of can't


isn't infinity just an infinite distance?

infinity is an infinite distance and a space slash should have limited range to how much "space" it can cut so it won't be able to bypass it


oh well, still icon
It's a fake space.
unless you wanna tell me that the black whip, inverted spear of heaven, simple domain... that could do nothing but nullify the energy or the technique or protect from it are travelling infinite distance.

infinity is the barrier itself, and no it doesn't separate space at best best it could work on atomic level that's why light and sound make Gojo visible and able to hear and see.

so basically this real space barrier > Gojo's"infinity"

that's why when Sukuna cut the real space it bypass the infinity, so no not even a spacial barrier.

if you gonna prove this wrong bring some feats and not just statements (their kind of inconsistent) .
 
It's a fake space.
No, it’s real. Gojo literally states it as such.

infinity is the barrier itself, and no it doesn't separate space at best
Yes, it does. The convergent infinite number of spatial divisions means no attack can reach him, as they’re constantly converging, proven by the fact that the amount of fractions has no end.


best it could work on atomic level that's why light and sound make Gojo visible and able to hear and see.
Not could, it does.


so basically this real space barrier > Gojo's"infinity"

that's why when Sukuna cut the real space it bypass the infinity, so no not even a spacial barrier.

if you gonna prove this wrong bring some feats and not just statements (their kind of inconsistent)
It cut the real space that Limitless resides in, which is reality, because Gojo brings fantasy into reality. Which is why he says all the way into space, existence, and the world. As long as Limitless existed within the physical spatial world, Sukuna could cut it.
 
It's a fake space.
....what's fake space?
first time i've ever heard of such terminology, altough gojo stated it was real

unless you wanna tell me that the black whip, inverted spear of heaven, simple domain... that could do nothing but nullify the energy or the technique or protect from it are travelling infinite distance.
never read jjk past seasin 1, i have no idea what any of those are

infinity is the barrier itself, and no it doesn't separate space at best best it could work on atomic level that's why light and sound make Gojo visible and able to hear and see.
infinity sperates attacks from gojo by making the distance btw the 2 infinite, this is how it was described and how it was shown to work, it's not just a simple space barrier

so basically this real space barrier > Gojo's"infinity"
...what is real and fake space and what's the difference btw them?

that's why when Sukuna cut the real space it bypass the infinity, so no not even a spacial barrier.
i feel like you're as clueless about infinity and how it works as i am bro

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j014.jpg
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j015.jpg

sukuna mentioned that his attack wasn't targeted at gojo, but the space, the entire world, and existence itself

my interpretaion of this was that he targeted gojo's existence within the world, as long as gojo existed within the confines of space inside the world, he would be cut, that's how he managed to bypass infinity, he didn't exactly state your space was fake(whatever that means), all i needed to do was cut the real space surrounding you and you alongside it and your infinity is meaningless



if you gonna prove this wrong bring some feats and not just statements (their kind of inconsistent) .

....friend,you're speaking as if everything you said is an established 100% undisputable fact when it's just your headcanon that has no evidence backing it up, at least my interpreation is consistent with the character statements and how they fight


oh well
 
....what's fake space?
first time i've ever heard of such terminology, altough gojo stated it was real


never read jjk past seasin 1, i have no idea what any of those are


infinity sperates attacks from gojo by making the distance btw the 2 infinite, this is how it was described and how it was shown to work, it's not just a simple space barrier


...what is real and fake space and what's the difference btw them?


i feel like you're as clueless about infinity and how it works as i am bro

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j014.jpg
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j015.jpg

sukuna mentioned that his attack wasn't targeted at gojo, but the space, the entire world, and existence itself

my interpretaion of this was that he targeted gojo's existence within the world, as long as gojo existed within the confines of space inside the world, he would be cut, that's how he managed to bypass infinity, he didn't exactly state your space was fake(whatever that means), all i needed to do was cut the real space surrounding you and you alongside it and your infinity is meaningless





....friend,you're speaking as if everything you said is an established 100% undisputable fact when it's just your headcanon that has no evidence backing it up, at least my interpreation is consistent with the character statements and how they fight


oh well
Fake space is not a term is just my way of saying infinity is maybe a form of Gojo's subjective reality where he manipulate his space (inside the barrier) and not the real world.
my interpretaion of this was that he targeted gojo's existence within the world, as long as gojo existed within the confines of space inside the world, he would be cut, that's how he managed to bypass infinity, he didn't exactly state your space was fake(whatever that means), all i needed to do was cut the real space surrounding you and you alongside it and your infinity is meaningless
this exactlly what I meant but diffrent words, Gojo is inside "infinity"(fake space) that is in the real space, any actual space cut will do the same.
(kind of stupid he never though of using it until now)

this is what I mean statement aren't consistent with the feats, cutting the world is just a flowery way of saying space cut, because from the feat the only effect is cutting Gojo in half.
 
Actually it is.

This is you not understanding how his powers work. His space is directly stated to be infinite and not follow the rules of regular space, Gojo's infinity space is obviously not only inches, lest Sukuna wouldn't have needed to target all of existence to bypass it.

Good thing Gojo isn't in regular space and therefore wouldn't feel the consequences of regular space being cut.

It's not. Gojo explicitly states that Infinity is actually everywhere, his sorcery is bringing that abstract quality into reality. That is why Sukuna refers to Gojo as being in a separate world when explaining how he was able to bypass infinity.
No, it's not

It is at best a few meters in ordinary space. He is creating infinite space inside finite space, essentially a compact dimension.

Wtf? He is in regular space that's how Sukuna killed him. You are now contradicting what was stated. If Gojo isn't in normal space then that slash wouldn't have worked

Naw, I couldn't read that even if my life depended on it. Where did Sukuna say Gojo is in another world? If Gojo is in another world, how was she slashed when Sukuna targeted the main world?
 
Fake space is not a term is just my way of saying infinity is maybe a form of Gojo's subjective reality where he manipulate his space (inside the barrier) and not the real world.
....that's still space, gojo is still manifesting an infinite distance/space btw him and the attack into reality, that's not exactly fake, what are you even on here?

this exactlly what I meant but diffrent words, Gojo is inside "infinity"(fake space) that is in the real space, any actual space cut will do the same.
(kind of stupid he never though of using it until now)

...what?

...my friend, a space/distance manifested into reality is real by definion you still have yet to explain what's fake space/real space and how are they different
i have no idea what you even mean or try to imply by adding "fake" to it, that's like saying a fire that was manifested to reality and burned a building is fake fire...whatever that means
my interpretation was also vastly different from yours

sukuna mentioned that his attack wasn't targeted at gojo, but the space, the entire world, and existence itself

my interpretaion of this was that he targeted gojo's existence within the world, as long as gojo existed within the confines of space inside the world, he would be cut, that's how he managed to bypass infinity

that's a slash that ignored distance space and everything, as long as gojo exists inside the world, no matter where he is, he would be slahsed in half

that is not a space slash



this is what I mean statement aren't consistent with the feats, cutting the world is just a flowery way of saying space cut, because from the feat the only effect is cutting Gojo in half.
...do you have any evidence that's the case?

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j014.jpg
https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j015.jpg
especially when both space and world here are used seperately (it's intended target....but space, the entire world, existence itself///as long as it exsits within that space, that world) and thus mean 2 completelt different things?
 
....that's still space, gojo is still manifesting an infinite distance/space btw him and the attack into reality, that's not exactly fake, what are you even on here?



...what?

...my friend, a space/distance manifested into reality is real by definion you still have yet to explain what's fake space/real space and how are they different
i have no idea what you even mean or try to imply by adding "fake" to it, that's like saying a fire that was manifested to reality and burned a building is fake fire...whatever that means
my interpretation was also vastly different from yours



that's a slash that ignored distance space and everything, as long as gojo exists inside the world, no matter where he is, he would be slahsed in half

that is not a space slash




...do you have any evidence that's the case?


especially when both space and world here are used seperately (it's intended target....but space, the entire world, existence itself///as long as it exsits within that space, that world) and thus mean 2 completelt different things?
that's alot of NLF.
Do you know how many works of fiction use the word "world" without actually meaning it?

Have you even read the serie to the latest chapter because the anime kind of skip some parts?

and no Sukuna was literally next to him and also the universe isn't infinite and I don't see Sukuna doing affecting it, the only thing he cut with his space slash the space the Gojo exist in.
 
especially when both space and world here are used seperately (it's intended target....but space, the entire world, existence itself///as long as it exsits within that space, that world) and thus mean 2 completelt different things?
show me any feat of it affecting cities, planets, suns, galaxy let alone the universe. that's a NLF
 
that's alot of NLF.

...that's not how no limit fallacies work either
NLF

when someone states that because something has not demonstrated any limits (or only certain limits) then it has none (or only the ones demonstrated).
i never implied any of this, i literally just gave an explanation of how the attacks worked based on their descriptions on the mang

elaborate on what in my earlier responser was a NLF

Do you know how many works of fiction use the word "world" without actually meaning it?
doesn't matter, those are those and this is this, what matters is what the word means here


and no Sukuna was literally next to him and also the universe isn't infinite

...and?
what does have to do with anything?
and I don't see Sukuna doing affecting it, the only thing he cut with his space slash the space the Gojo exist in.
yes, the metod how he managed to slash gojo is what we're arguing about here

sukuna mentioned that his attack wasn't targeted at just gojo, but the space, the entire world, and existence itself

my interpretaion of this was that he targeted gojo's existence within the world, as long as gojo existed within the confines of space inside the world, he would be cut, that's how he managed to bypass infinity

your arguments confuse me, they really make not a lick of sens

show me any feat of it affecting cities, planets, suns, galaxy let alone the universe. that's a NLF
...never implied any of that, have you even read my post?

i don't even know what you're arguing against at this point


https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j014.jpg

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j015.jpg

what i said, is this
my interpretaion of this was that he targeted gojo's existence within the world, as long as gojo existed within the confines of space inside the world, he would be cut, that's how he managed to bypass infinity
that's a slash that ignored distance space and everything, as long as gojo exists inside the world, no matter where he is, he would be slahsed in half

that is not a space slash


it feels like you have no idea what you're talking about, and you still haven't addressed any of my points
 
No, it's not
Yes it is, repeating it will not make it any less true.
It is at best a few meters in ordinary space.
Until you hit infinity, which is stated to be infinite.
He is creating infinite space inside finite space, essentially a compact dimension.
No, he is conjuring the naturally omnipresent infinity around him, thus drowning his target in infinite number series, given that regular space works based on elements of a set whose phase is normally equal and thus can converge. That doesn't happen in the infinite dimension.
Wtf? He is in regular space that's how Sukuna killed him. You are now contradicting what was stated. If Gojo isn't in normal space then that slash wouldn't have worked
No he isn't. If he was in regular space Sukuna wouldn't have needed to target all of existence, just the localized space which contained his Infinity. Instead, Sukuna had to target a state of existence that encapsulated Infinity. This is bolstered by the usage of the term for the buudhist universe including all of time, space, and all worlds.
Naw, I couldn't read that even if my life depended on it. Where did Sukuna say Gojo is in another world? If Gojo is in another world, how was she slashed when Sukuna targeted the main world?
Do you know the difference between this and that? If me and you are in the living room, and I need you to pass me a bag of chips from the kitchen, I wouldn't say "hey can you pass me the chips in this room". I'd say "Can you pass from the chips from that room". Sukuna not only stated he needed to target all of existence, but states that it didn't matter if Gojo was in that world, as long as it was under the umbrella of Sukuna's target (all of existence) Gojo could still be hit.

Someone was kind enough to make small info graphic that generally depicts what happened [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
 
Ok, so If Reinhard can't cut trought infinity, his only wincon would be his Mind Manipulation blessing i guess.
Is not In-character, and he don't even have on his hand, so is Very unlikely for him to consider using before Gojo defeats him.

Does Gojo resist mind Manipulation?
 
...that's not how no limit fallacies work either
NLF


i never implied any of this, i literally just gave an explanation of how the attacks worked based on their descriptions on the mang

elaborate on what in my earlier responser was a NLF


doesn't matter, those are those and this is this, what matters is what the word means here




...and?
what does have to do with anything?

yes, the metod how he managed to slash gojo is what we're arguing about here



your arguments confuse me, they really make not a lick of sens


...never implied any of that, have you even read my post?

i don't even know what you're arguing against at this point


https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j014.jpg

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j015.jpg

what i said, is this




it feels like you have no idea what you're talking about, and you still haven't addressed any of my points
why is it a NLF?
until Sukuna space cut the universe, the infinite distance stuff is just NLF based on flowery words and no feat.


nothing, just prove it's a limited range space slash.


if Gojo's "infinity" is actual space manipulation why doesn't it affect light or sound or even cursed energy ?
 
Ok, so If Reinhard can't cut trought infinity, his only wincon would be his Mind Manipulation blessing i guess.

Does Gojo resist mind Manipulation?
And definitely not an infinite amount of spatial divisions, on an atomic level. Sukuna specifically targeted the world’s existence itself, so unless Reinhard can do that, no dice.


if Gojo's "infinity" is actual space manipulation why doesn't it affect light or sound or even cursed energy ?
This was all debunked. You ignored my response, purposely, I feel.
 
It does effect ce. The light and sound though he can't target that.
I know, is It like a selective spacial manipulation that work on atomic level?
sound like a form of subjective reality.

And definitely not an infinite amount of spatial divisions, on an atomic level. Sukuna specifically targeted the world’s existence itself, so unless Reinhard can do that, no dice
funny, the author: "Reinhard cut the world itself" sound familiar right.

This was all debunked. You ignored my response, purposely, I feel.
why was it debunked ?
 
why is it a NLF?
until Sukuna space cut the universe, the infinite distance stuff is just NLF based on flowery words and no feat.
i never even said any of that, for the love of god, stop strawmanning my position

Dr whiteee also provided a better explanation
Do you know the difference between this and that? If me and you are in the living room, and I need you to pass me a bag of chips from the kitchen, I wouldn't say "hey can you pass me the chips in this room". I'd say "Can you pass from the chips from that room". Sukuna not only stated he needed to target all of existence, but states that it didn't matter if Gojo was in that world, as long as it was under the umbrella of Sukuna's target (all of existence) Gojo could still be hit.

Someone was kind enough to make small info graphic that generally depicts what happened [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]


nothing, just prove it's a limited range space slash.

prove it, at this point you're purposely ignoring arguments strawmanning my position and simply stating whatever you feel like

stop making unsubstanited assumptions and prove your points

what part of this

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j014.jpg

https://img.spoilerhat.com/img/?url=https://zjcdn.********.me/store/manga/27861/236.0/compressed/j015.jpg
implies sukuna's slash is a normal space slash?

make it concise and clear
if Gojo's "infinity" is actual space manipulation why doesn't it affect light or sound or even cursed energy ?
he can't target sound and light, but it does effect CE


funny, the author: "Reinhard cut the world itself" sound familiar right.
and would you look at that, an association fallacy

the word and context are completely different in both these scenarios, until you explain why world in both of these sentences means the same thing, they won't be
 
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