Reinhard van Astrea VS Gremmy Thoumeaux • (0-7-0)

[Phoenks]

Reinhard's first battle after his upgrade. I believe in him, but this is some crazy competition.

We are debating everything.

-

Reinhard van Astrea, the Overpowered Sword Saint

VS

Gremmy Thoumeaux, the Visionary

-

Don't make fun of me for these png images. I couldn't find good ones.

Speed Equalized • SBA

 

[Deceived3596]

Following.

 

[Arcker123]

Following

 

[Phoenks]

Reinhard's first move is a 20 kilometer-range existence erasure sword slash that can erase body, soul, and mind simultaneously.

 

[BadSystems]

Reinhard's first move is a 20 kilometer-range existence erasure sword slash that can erase body, soul, and mind simultaneously.

When he draws the sword, right? If he does that right off the bat Gremmy just ******* dies

 

[Zabazab]

Reinhard's first move is a 20 kilometer-range existence erasure sword slash that can erase body, soul, and mind simultaneously.

It's actually a >2,500km.

 

[Arcker123]

Reinhard's first move is a 20 kilometer-range existence erasure sword slash that can erase body, soul, and mind simultaneously.

Gremmy can erase or death hax with a thought and that seems to be faster than a sword slash

 

[Phoenks]

Gremmy can erase or death hax with a thought and that seems to be faster than a sword slash

Reinhard resists death hax and has Low-Godly resurrection.

Is that Gremmy's first move btw?

 

[Zabazab]

Erasure should kill Reinhard but he resists death hax.

How likely is his EE off-rip?

 

[TaiwaneseScaler]

following

 

[Arcker123]

Reinhard resists death hax and has Low-Godly resurrection.

Is that Gremmy's first move btw?

Gremmy still has his thought based erasure which is beyond Low Godly regen as it destroys bodies, souls, minds (Via effecting souls) and even nonexsistence.

It is a starter as Erasure is what he used to kill Guaneal in his first fight and used it often against kenny.

Erasure should kill Reinhard but he resists death hax.

How likely is his EE off-rip?

If erasure would kill Reinhard, then Gremmy wins because thinking is inherently faster and more reliable than drawing and slashing with a sword.

It is a starter as that's what he used in his first actual fight to off rip Guaneal.

 

[Deceived3596]

Reinhard resists death hax

Does that Death Manip extend to the spiritual and mental as well?

 

[Zabazab]

Does that Death Manip extend to the spiritual and mental as well?

He resists both soul and mind attacks yeah.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Reinhard's first move is a 20 kilometer-range existence erasure sword slash

No is not lol

Does that Death Manip extend to the spiritual and mental as well?

Yes, he Death Manipulation hax that he resist should affect both.

 

[Arcker123]

Gremmy should also easily be able to use his perception blitz Hirenkyaku amp to avoid the 20km slash as even lesser characters like Shunsui can travel 26km in a single step.

 

[Zabazab]

Gremmy should also easily be able to use his perception blitz Hirenkyaku amp to avoid the 20km slash as even lesser characters like Shunsui can travel 26km in a single step.

It's actually a >2,500km.

 

[BadSystems]

Gremmy should also easily be able to use his perception blitz Hirenkyaku amp to avoid the 20km slash as even lesser characters like Shunsui can travel 26km in a single step.

It's actually a >2,500km.

Unfortunately probably not. Even if he could, does Gremmy have some kind of precog to know that Reinhard drawing his sword kills him?

 

[Arcker123]

Even if it's 2500 KM, Gremmy not only perception blitzes with Hirenkyaku, but can also simply do 100 steps with Shunpo to dodge, and with a perception blitz, that would happen easily as even lesser characters in Bleach can do 100 steps to dodge. How fast does it reach 2500 KM?

Unfortunately probably not. Even if he could, does Gremmy have some kind of precog to know that Reinhard drawing his sword kills him?

He doesn't need precog? He would simply dodge anyway because it's an attack.

Gremmy would also just beat Reinhard in the quick draw match as thinking > sword draw.

Gremmy can also create Shaz Domino, who's mid godly would allow him to regen the ee slash, and Guaneal who if Rein can't touch his type of NEP would just be untouchable. Guaneal would also be to erase himself from Reinhards's memory, which Reinhard doesn't resist, so that's another wincon for Gremmy.

 

[BadSystems]

He doesn't need precog? He would simply dodge anyway because it's an attack.

Gremmy would also just beat Reinhard in the quick draw match as thinking > sword draw

Him pulling his sword out shouldn't prompt Gremmy to run 2500km away unless Gremmy can somehow intuit the attack's properties. Also, from what I've seen in this thread Reinhard doesn't instantly die to Gremmy's EE.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

SBA is max 4Km distance between opponents

 

[Zabazab]

Even if it's 2500 KM, Gremmy not only perception blitzes with Hirenkyaku, but can also simply do 100 steps with Shunpo to dodge, and with a perception blitz, that would happen easily as even lesser characters in Bleach can do 100 steps to dodge. How fast does it reach 2500 KM?

Reinhard's first attack will always hit the target.

 

[Arcker123]

Him pulling his sword out shouldn't prompt Gremmy to run 2500km away unless Gremmy can somehow intuit the attack's properties. Also, from I've seen in this thread Reinhard doesn't instantly die to Gremmy's EE.

Gremmy's EE is beyond Reinhard's capacity to resurrect or regen, which means Gremmy one shots with a thought. Thought based hax > Action based hax.

Gremmy is a range fighter, of course he'd use his perception blitz amps to run away if needed, that's a basic concept.

Reinhard's first attack will always hit the target.

How is this not an NLF when he only has thousands of KM with his sword? Gremmy's perception blitz amps would allow him to escape that range quickly.

 

[Zabazab]

How is this not an NLF when he only has thousands of KM with his sword? Gremmy's perception blitz amps would allow him to escape that range quickly.

If he's outside his range it won't hit, but why would he do that + Reinhard can just follow him.

 

[BadSystems]

Gremmy's EE is beyond Reinhard's capacity to resurrect or regen, which means Gremmy one shots with a thought. Thought based hax > Action based hax.

Gremmy is a range fighter, of course he'd use his perception blitz amps to run away if needed, that's a basic concept.

How does he KNOW he needs to run away from him drawing his sword at the very start of the fight, that's my question. I guess if Reinhard doesn't resist his EE (not too knowledgeable on either) then Gremmy wins, but I won't really pursue that subject.

 

[Zabazab]

Basically if Gremmy always starts with EE then he wins, if he doesn't then Reinhard will EE Gremmy instead.

 

[BadSystems]

Basically if Gremmy always starts with EE then he wins, if he doesn't then Reinhard will EE Gremmy instead.

Any Bleach supporters know why he didn't start with EE vs Kenpachi?

 

[Arcker123]

Voting Gremmy because of his thought based EE being beyond any healing power Rein has as conceded by his supporters. Allowing gremmy to win before Rein get's his wincon off. Gremmy also has summons who counter Rein's wincon via Shaz domino regenerating from the EE as he has mid godly, or Guaneal erasing himself from Rein's memory and vision, and Rein seemingly not being able to touch NEP of Guaneal's caliber.

Any Bleach supporters know why he didn't start with EE vs Kenpachi?

Very plot specific reasons, but the gist is Gremmy wasn't fighting like he normally would in a random encounter due to Kenny making him fight to prove his status as strongest. Gremmy does IC crush his opponents with hax, and the Kenny fight proves thatas he was having to fight irregularly to prove himself.

Gremmy would IC just use his insta win hax.

How does he KNOW he needs to run away from him drawing his sword at the very start of the fight, that's my question. I guess if Reinhard doesn't resist his EE (not too knowledgeable on either) then Gremmy wins, but I won't really pursue that subject.

Because it's an attack and Gremmy IC does not fight at close range and would use Hirenkyaku to create range.

Remember, Hirenkyaku is just Gremmy's footwork skill, 100 steps for us is over 2500 KM for him, and 100 steps for a human is complete fodder, along with the perception blitzing amps Gremmy has with his Hirenkyaku.

Basically if Gremmy always starts with EE then he wins, if he doesn't then Reinhard will EE Gremmy instead.

Nope. Even if he starts with Death manip and fails (Which hasn't been proven btw, resisting soul attacks isn't the same as soul based death), Gremmy would think to use EE and that would be faster than Reinhards wincons.

2 thoughts > 2 actions (Drawing and slashing the sword).

EE is still IC as a starter for Gremmy, but even if it wasn't (to be charitable to Reinhard), Gremmy still wins.

 

[BadSystems]

Voting Gremmy FRA

 

[Arcker123]

If he's outside his range it won't hit, but why would he do that + Reinhard can just follow him.

Reinhard get's perception blitzed by the Hirenkyaku because in verse it perception blitzes people relative to the users speed.

Reinhard wouldn't know where Gremmy is to follow him because of the blitz, especially when Gremmy can use his hax to hide his prescence.

Also, my strategy works because Gremmy is simply doing 100 steps with his perception blitzing footwork, which is trivial for him.

 

[Zabazab]

Reinhard get's perception blitzed by the Hirenkyaku because in verse it perception blitzes people relative to the users speed.

Does it blitz people kilometers away?

 

[Arcker123]

Does it blitz people kilometers away?

Yes given how even Shunsui was able to be FTE to Yamamoto (and this is doubly impressive as Yamamoto is >>> Shunsui in pure speed), even when Shunsui was traveling a bare minimum of 26 KM.

 

[BoastJr]

Things are not looking well for Reinhard.

Gremmy seems to just have the faster oneshot wincon especially if he can just amplify his speed

 

[Excellence616]

I vote Soul king brain FRA

 

[Hellscream]

The guy who has thought based death hax and EE.

 

[Arcker123]

I will also argue that if Rein's EE is activated through a physical swing, Gremmy has many ways of stopping that.

Either by Guaneal to sneak up on him via memory manip Rein does not resist along with great NEP and invisibility, or simply perception blitzing with Hirenkyaku into CQC, using moves like his water prison to simply stop Reinhard from moving and swinging. Gremmy can also simply summon Shaz Domino, who can tank the EE with his regen, allowing Gremmy to assess the danger.

Gremmy has several ways he can overcome Rein here, and can beat Rein's best abilities, whereas Rein cannot do the same to Gremmy's best moves.

 

[Bastolan27]

Just read through both of their profiles, and Gremmy wins. Reinhard has resistance to

• Possibly Death Manipulation (No curses, debuffs, or buffs can affect him, thus resists this ability from Julius)

And Gremmy has

Death Manipulation (Gremmy can imagine an opponent's death and cause that to happen in reality[3])

Nonexistence Erasure (Nature: Type 1 and 3 - Aspect: Type 1 and 3 - Gremmy can[11] erase objects[12] and people[13] from existence through his imagination[14]. This erasure is potent enough to erase Guenael Lee from existence despite the fact he's completely unaffected after erasing his very own existence from reality with "The Vanishing Point", with his "existence" containing his soul, mind and body[15])

Gremmy's Death manipulation is not a curse or a debuff, and it doesn't work like one. He just kills you and erases your existence with a thought.

 

[Zabazab]

Gremmy's Death manipulation is not a curse or a debuff, and it doesn't work like one. He just kills you and erases your existence with a thought.

Reinhard resists Julius' death hax, which just makes you dead when it hits you. He also resists curses which specialize in causing death, as well as Carmilla's Authority of Lust, which stops your heart (similar to the Death Note).

The EE should effect Reinhard, but not death hax.

 

[Bastolan27]

Reinhard resists Julius' death hax, which just makes you dead when it hits you. He also resists curses which specialize in causing death, as well as Carmilla's Authority of Lust, which stops your heart (similar to the Death Note).

If it's confirmed he resists Julius' death hax, then why is it marked as 'Possibly Death Manipulation'? And Julius' profile says

Possibly Death Manipulation (Al Clarista is a certain-death blade[2], when hit by it Petelguese's Unseen Hands were difficult to reconstitute, growing thinner)

 

[Fezzih_007]

If it's confirmed he resists Julius' death hax, then why is it marked as 'Possibly Death Manipulation'? And Julius' profile says

Is because is not clear If is just floral lenguage, because "a certain death-blade" can mean the attack is lethal, but not nescessary would kill the opponent with or hax, or If the attack really just cause death on the opponent.

Also don't help that when Julius did hit someone with the attack, the opponent din't die, and we decided he resisted with supernatural Willpower.

 

[Fezzih_007]

as well as Carmilla's Authority of Lust, which stops your heart (similar to the Death Note).

Also, when Reinhard ever resist Camilla authority?