Battle of Sword Saints (Hinata Sakaguchi vs Reinhard van Astrea) (GRACE!!!)

[Nico-v11]

So just so we get something clear. How many steps does it take for Hinata to win?

 

[Lynieryz]

Hinata fra.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So just so we get something clear. How many steps does it take for Hinata to win?

From what I gathered... Hinata needs to say Disintegration, which will cause an attack to come out of her hands that needs to hit Reinhard. Problem: Rein's own analytical prediction will likely inform him of the nature of Hinata's attack or the general geis of it, his own instinctive reaction will kick in as well which will help him dodge the attack since speed is equal, his reactive power level will help him dodge any further disintegration attacks as once he has seen an attack once Rein can dodge it at greater speeds, there is also the detail that Rein's physiology has the specified ability to render magic-users unable to use mana from the atmosphere but that's likely a verse-specific thing, and speaking of verse-specific thing, Rein also has information analysis which might help him know Hianta's skills if they are equal to divine protection - unlikely, but it is still a thing to consider.

Reinhard also needs to swing his sword. If he doesn't start out with Reid drawn out, it also isn't granted that Hinata's Usurper can steal The Divine Protection of the Sword Saint to render him unable to draw the sword - so there is that to consider...

Also, if it is fair for Hinata's Usurper to equal skills to Divine Protections, then, it should be fair for Reinhard's Information Analysis to equal Hinata's skills to Divine Protection to find out about them.

 

[Ss3micah]

Reinhard also needs to swing his sword. If he doesn't start out with Reid drawn out, it also isn't granted that Hinata's Usurper can steal The Divine Protection of the Sword Saint to render him unable to draw the sword - so there is that to consider...

Well, since I did Specify the Dragon Sword Reid thing then I think he should start with it already in hand

Also, if it is fair for Hinata's Usurper to equal skills to Divine Protections, then, it should be fair for Reinhard's Information Analysis to equal Hinata's skills to Divine Protection to find out about them.

Franky and I did spoke briefly about it and yes Hinata can steal Divine Blessings

Fair Point

But now that I think about it Usurper wouldn't be able to affect Divine Blessings either. Divine Protections are blessings given to people at birth by the world, bestowed by Od Laguna.

Divine Protections are stated to remain with the individual from birth to death, and it is only possible to temporarily strip one of their Divine Protection by using a magic circle that isolates an area from Od Laguna.

That's how skills work in slime, It is inscribed in the soul and it is unique to the particular individual too she still could steal it also the usurper allows her to copy the attack too.

So while Usurper has feats of affecting skills inscribed on the soul, divine blessings are well blessings bestowed by a super natural existent god and remain as long as the person is connected with that God. Hinata wont be able to separate the connection between Reinhard and Od Laguna and nor does she implore magic circles in an IC sword fight.

Skills are granted by the voice of the world in the verse which is at least a low multi system rn and she was granted the skill that let her steal something that belongs to one individual.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So... Since all of the issues of Reinhard not starting with Reid are solved with you saying the battle starts with Reid already in hand... I think that solves the issue of Reinhard's win-con not being stable. Along with the other things that you said.

Now, Rein starts off the battle by knowing all of Hinata's skills due to Skills = Divine Protections and vice versa, ye? So, let's talk about a few things...

Would Hinata know that Reinhard starts off with knowledge of what she can do automatically? Also, if Hinata's disintegration is a skill, I think he would know how dangerous Hinata is with that skill; if it is a spell, disregard this.

Also, since Usurper is her go-to move, from what you've said, would that prevent her from stopping Rein from swinging his sword?

To me, Rein's own hax and his starting move rely on him simply swinging a sword, it makes a much stronger case for him winning; but Hinata would likely **** him over if he makes a single misstep and will turn the tides to her side.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Did anyone even counter what Rein does to Usurper?

 

[Lynieryz]

Magic Nullification (Her body will automatically disintegrate magicules, which nullifies any magic on her)

Does this nullify Reid's attack?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Does this nullify Reid's attack?

I... don't know. Tbh. I'm sort of the opinion that Reinhard's AoE Matter Hax Attack isn't magic, since it is stated numerous times Reinhard is unable to use magic, he just makes an F*&^-off AoE attack comes out of nowhere when he slashes with Reid, which is a weird constant whenever he uses the damn thing.

 

[Abstractions]

From what I gathered... Hinata needs to say Disintegration, which will cause an attack to come out of her hands that needs to hit Reinhard. Problem: Rein's own analytical prediction will likely inform him of the nature of Hinata's attack or the general geis of it, his own instinctive reaction will kick in as well which will help him dodge the attack

Mathematician and Hinata's feats against Rimuru's Future Attack Prediction would aid in combating this, as her resistance reads as follows:

"Analytical Prediction (Can fight Rimuru despite his Future Attack Prediction, which simulates every possibility of an attack and every attack landed by the user is destined to hit. Is stated to unleash unpredictable attacks),"

Well, since I did Specify the Dragon Sword Reid thing then I think he should start with it already in hand

He has it on his person but that doesn't necessitate it already being in his hand, it's equipment, not a separate key. But if that's what you intended with the OP I can't argue with it, just telling you how it works.

 

[noxx]

hinata FRA

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Mathematician and Hinata's feats against Rimuru's Future Attack Prediction would aid in combating this, as her resistance reads as follows:

"Analytical Prediction (Can fight Rimuru despite his Future Attack Prediction, which simulates every possibility of an attack and every attack landed by the user is destined to hit. Is stated to unleash unpredictable attacks),"

Okay, so... This just returns back to if Hinata saying disintegrate and aiming at Reinhard is faster or if Reinhard wordlessly swinging his sword is faster. This is essentially just a quick draw, which I personally believe, is on Reinhard's side since I've been told Usurper is Hinata's go-to first move.

 

[Ss3micah]

Hinata fra.

hinata FRA

Added

 

[Ss3micah]

Okay, so... This just returns back to if Hinata saying disintegrate and aiming at Reinhard is faster or if Reinhard wordlessly swinging his sword is faster. This is essentially just a quick draw, which I personally believe, is on Reinhard's side since I've been told Usurper is Hinata's go-to first move.

Yeah
This is pretty much the situation

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Bump

 

[Ss3micah]

BUMPING

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Hinata FRA.

 

[Ss3micah]

Hinata FRA.

ADDED!!!!

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Kek... I need to bring some Reinhard supports to help even things out. Idk, maybe.

 

[DigiAnymore]

Reinhard have resist to Information Manipulation type 2(Disintegration)?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Reinhard have resist to Information Manipulation type 2(Disintegration)?

Nein

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Guys look at his profile, he got the High 6-C tier for his striking strenght and dura while wilding the sword.

Reinhard pretty much can one punch her in range.

With the strenght gap, literally an Air pressure from either a punch or a swing of the sword pretty much turns Hinata into paper paste.
As the sword does also increase his physical stats.

It would be a draw, becouse Rein won't histate to punch the ground with his feet (as he did in canon) and generate a Shockwave strong enough to kill her, or just swing his sword.

At the same time, he would likely get hit by Hinata's Skill, which pretty much would end him there.

So most likely both get killed here.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

It's not a key, it's just the power of the weapon, it can still be sheathed at the start of the match.

Another key, becouse it also increases Reinhard's stats overall.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

... Wait, so... is this an incon vote or are you just giving your two cents?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

... Wait, so... is this an incon vote or are you just giving your two cents?

Both

 

[Abstractions]

Another key, becouse it also increases Reinhard's stats overall.

Nope, just a stronger weapon. Not listed as another key, even on the page itself.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Nope, just a stronger weapon. Not listed as another key, even on the page itself.

Probably you are right in that one, but bare in mind that the swords increases his stats too, look at his striking strenght and Durability section.
Also, the heavy hitters of Re:Zero are physically High 6-C die to being able to somehow compete with him while he weilding the sword.
It's just the sword who has the power, but also Reinhard while he has it.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Probably you are right in that one, but bare in mind that the swords increases his stats too, look at his striking strenght and Durability section.
Also, the heavy hitters of Re:Zero are physically High 6-C die to being able to somehow compete with him while he weilding the sword.
It's just the sword who has the power, but also Reinhard while he has it.

So is this like Thor with his Hammer or smth? Like Reinhard/Thor get better stats when they wield their weapons? Also, btw, due to your arguments, I would like to switch my vote to incon FRA

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

So is this like Thor with his Hammer or smth? Like Reinhard/Thor get better stats when they wield their weapons? Also, btw, due to your arguments, I would like to switch my vote to incon FRA

Yes, did you seriously not see Reinhard's striking strenght and dura section??

Also people like Satella and Volcanica scale to High 6-C thanks to thst

 

[Ss3micah]

Again
Who you think Wins depend on one factor


Reinhard being able to at least swing Reid once and Hinata uttering the phrase "Disintegration"
Who can do what first?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

I'm honestly still in the camp of Reinhard swinging Reid first before Hinata can utter the phrase "Disintegration", and me saying to switch to incon fra was a on-the-moment thing that I don't think is right any more.
Bit unfortunate, Hinata is getting the FRA Train treatment without people explaining why, but kek.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Again
Who you think Wins depend on one factor


Reinhard being able to at least swing Reid once and Hinata uttering the phrase "Disintegration"
Who can do what first?

Again, Reinhard's stats are also boosted aswell.

What stops Reinhard while weilding the sword, from sending an Air pressure from his fist, or simply kicking the ground? that's what I mean.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

From my point of view... Nothing.

 

[Abstractions]

What stops Reinhard while weilding the sword, from sending an Air pressure from his fist, or simply kicking the ground? that's what I mean.

That isn't what the page says, it's indicating that the stats of the sword are that, not himself.

To further this, the P&A lists Statistics Amplification for specific blessings, but nothing about Reid. All of the High 6-C statistics are Reid's.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

That isn't what the page says, it's indicating that the stats of the sword are that, not himself.

To further this, the P&A lists Statistics Amplification for specific blessings, but nothing about Reid. All of the High 6-C statistics are Reid's.

Yeah

Look at his striking strenght and Durability section.........while he weilding the sword.

Striking strenght and Durability belongs to someone's own statistics, and the sword boost them.
Look at Thor who becomes physically stronger holding his hammer.

Also, the fact that people like Volcanica are High 6-c due to being a le to somehow compete with him.

Again, with the sword his stats increase too.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Does this matter, tbh? Thread Maker already stated that Reid is out and Reinhard is wielding it.

 

[Abstractions]

Look at his striking strenght and Durability section.........while he weilding the sword.

Striking Strength entails the blade, yes. Durability entails the blade is strong enough to withstand it hitting things, yes.

Does this matter, tbh? Thread Maker already stated that Reid is out and Reinhard is wielding it.

It's about clearing up the discrepancy that Reinhard isn't actually getting any stat increases himself, unlike Cap with Mjolnir. It's misleading and is relevant enough to talk about lest it come up in the future.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Striking Strength entails the blade, yes. Durability entails the blade is strong enough to withstand it hitting things, yes.

Yeah and his own stats increase aswell with the sword

If it was just the dura of the sword, it wouldn't be listed in the striking strenght and Durability section for something that is a weapon and not his own power

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

about clearing up the discrepancy that Reinhard isn't actually getting any stat increases himself, unlike Cap with Mjolnir. It's misleading and is relevant enough to talk about lest it come up in the future.

It increases his stats aswell.

Even Pegasus stated that that can be the case.

Not being rude, but if you don't really have greater knowledge on the verse, don't talk about things that you don't know well.

 

[Abstractions]

If it was just the dura of the sword, it wouldn't be listed in the striking strenght

Yes, the Striking Strength is referring to the sword Reid striking with that strength, not Reinhard. A sword can cut something higher than what the user can and it still be striking strength, it doesn't have to entail punches.

It increases his stats aswell.

That would be written on the page then, which it isn't. Not even where you'd want it to be.

Even Pegasus stated that that can be the case.

"Can be" is not a yes, it's a maybe. That's not confirmation.

Not being rude, but if you don't really have greater knowledge on the verse, don't talk about things that you don't know well.

Let me put this as blunt as I can.

You not understanding how statistics work has nothing to do with me, and you have zero reason to be speaking on my verse knowledge for some weak attempt at poisoning the well. Stop while you're ahead.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

If you are gonna argue he can face off against people who can fight him with Reid, then you can say Reid would be boasting his stats.

That's why his Striking strenght and Durability is stated as "possibly"


Anyways, I already gave my point, is up to you to think what u want