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Satoru Gojo VS Reinhard Van Astrea PART 2 (3-8-3)

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Phoenks

Phoenks

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Satoru Gojo, the Strongest Sorcerer, VS Reinhard Van Astrea, the Sword Saint

Lgvk2lz.png

rac7224.png


The sequel to the madness. Originally closed for becoming a toxic nightmare. I bring you this thread, to finally get to the conclusion of this fight.

I understand that the statistics in JJK are a bit outdated, but statistics hardly matter in this fight so who cares?

Rules:
  • Speed is equalized.
  • The battle takes place in a large colosseum.
  • They start approximately 100 meters away from one another.
  • All standard win conditions are valid.
  • Reinhard can draw Reid.

Gojo: 3 (@Dr._whiteee, @speedster352, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit)
Reinhard: 8 (@noninho, @Zabazab, @SatellaTheWoE, @Serlock_Holmes, @EL_xWatcher1234x, @Arkenis, @BoastJr, @Celestial_Pegasus )
Inconclusive: 3 (@Phsccarvalho, @Fezzih_007, @Passersby)
 
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urhg.

I change my mind since the last thread now, Reinhard can cut trought Infinte to reach Gojo, right?
 
Phoenks said:
Satoru Gojo, the Strongest Sorcerer, VS Reinhard Van Astrea, the Sword Saint

Lgvk2lz.png

rac7224.png


The sequel to the madness. Originally closed for becoming a toxic nightmare. I bring you this thread, to finally get to the conclusion of this fight.

I understand that the statistics in JJK are a bit outdated, but statistics hardly matter in this fight so who cares?

Rules:
  • Speed is equalized.
  • The battle takes place in a large colosseum.
  • They start approximately 100 meters away from one another.
  • All standard win conditions are valid.
  • Reinhard can draw Reid.
Click to expand...
If the speed is equalized, won't Reinhard just "automatically" swerve and get faster and faster?

He also has spatial manipulation to cut through infinity.

So what would stop Reinhard from simply dodging the attacks, swinging his sword once and then Spatial Manipulation + EE?
 
Domain Expansion could be a win condition for Gojo
 
That's Unlimited Void, yeah? I don't think that would bypass Reinhard's mind hax resistance would it?
 
I'm confused, the chapter didn't have Sukuna use normal spatial cutting to bypass Infinity. He targets all of existence to have his slash cut ALL of Infinity at once. It has infinite range due to extending its application onto existence. Tho admittedly I know nothing of Reinhard. Can they also cut infinite space or rather cut space with infinite range? Cuz cutting a few inches of an infinite distance doesn't really do much.
 
LaserPrecision said:
I'm confused, the chapter didn't have Sukuna use normal spatial cutting to bypass Infinity. He targets all of existence to have his slash cut ALL of Infinity at once. It has infinite range due to extending its application onto existence. Tho admittedly I know nothing of Reinhard. Can they also cut infinite space or rather cut space with infinite range?
Click to expand...
The Jujutsu Kaisen supporters have delivered.

Sukuna does not have infinite range spatial cutting. He ignored infinity by cutting through the world itself, which is really just a flashy way of saying he cut through space.

For comparison, Reinhard has also had statements of "mending the world" or cutting the world in two. These are also just taken as him cutting through space.

See no reason Sukuna's example would be treated different.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Can they also cut infinite space or rather cut space with infinite range?
Click to expand...
Isn't it just how all space cutting technically functions?

Against Julius, who had gambled and unveiled the secret ritual, Reid Astrea’s actions were terribly simple.

To swing down the sword he had swung up, a deed of sword strikes likely repeated the most in this world―― it obliquely bisected the world, becoming a light which wrecked all in its path to ruin.

Neither a special magic, nor a special move.

With a mere swing of the sword, the world was scorched by light. Impossible to understand. - Arc 6 Chapter 85 "Good Loser"
...
Simultaneously, since he also possessed the emotions enunciating this was how things must be overflowing within his chest, he found his own self to be irredeemable as well.

With a swing of the sword, the world fissured.

That, was the special move of the Sword Saint which transpired when Reinhard swung the sword as well. - Arc 6 Chapter 85 "Good Loser"
Click to expand...
 
Space cutting inherently ignores space. That's why it can bypass infinity. It doesn't care about distance, for it's slashing through the very fabric of existence!

Man do y'all find some interesting ways to exaggerate the feats in that manga.
 
Phoenks said:
The Jujutsu Kaisen supporters have delivered.

Sukuna does not have infinite range spatial cutting. He ignored infinity by cutting through the world itself, which is really just a flashy way of saying he cut through space.

For comparison, Reinhard has also had statements of "mending the world" or cutting the world in two. These are also just taken as him cutting through space.

See no reason Sukuna's example would be treated different.
Click to expand...
I mean I'm not really here to argue in anyone's favor, but I don't think basic spatial cutting is getting through infinity.

But he didn't say he just cut through the world. He stated it extended "all the way to space, existence, the world themselves" then went on to say "without regard to your inviolability, as long as it exists inside that space, that world, those existences would split apart". To me it sounds like Sukuna is targeting all of Infinity at once through technique extension. Meaning it cut through infinite space simultaneously.
Zabazab said:
Isn't it just how all space cutting technically functions?
Click to expand...
No, I wouldn't say so. Usually it's localized to a small area. Think of character's who cut open space to create a portal or cut through a single person. But maybe I'm wrong? I figured it to usually be a localized phenomena, otherwise what's stopping someone from cutting the entire universe in half?
 
LaserPrecision said:
I mean I'm not really here to argue in anyone's favor, but I don't think basic spatial cutting is getting through infinity.

But he didn't say he just cut through the world. He stated it extended "all the way to space, existence, the world themselves" then went on to say "without regard to your inviolability, as long as it exists inside that space, that world, those existences would split apart". To me it sounds like Sukuna is targeting all of Infinity at once through technique extension. Meaning it cut through infinite space simultaneously.
Click to expand...
If you can cut through space, you are effectively ignoring space and distance so yes it would ignore Infinity. There's no need to cut the entire universe or whatever. It's pretty clear that he's just using flashy words to say he cut space itself. Similar to what happens in Re: Zero when they describe Reinhard cutting the world.

And Gojo's infinity is not infinite range in the first place. It's spatial manipulation that creates infinite points in a finite amount of space.

If it really was an infinite amount of space then the range of Infinity would expand across the entire universe and Gojo would have infinite range.
 
Phoenks said:
If you can cut through space, you are effectively ignoring space and distance so yes it would ignore Infinity. There's no need to cut the entire universe or whatever. It's pretty clear that he's just using flashy words to say he cut space itself. Similar to what happens in Re: Zero when they describe Reinhard cutting the world.

And Gojo's infinity is not infinite range in the first place. It's spatial manipulation that creates infinite points in a finite amount of space.

If it really was an infinite amount of space then the range of Infinity would expand across the entire universe and Gojo would have infinite range.
Click to expand...
Could you break it down more for me? I do actually want to make an attempt at understanding your point. I don't wanna seem like some hurr durr JJK stonewall.

How does space cutting ignore distance? Like, imagine you have an infinitely long strip of paper extending out into space. Pretend the paper is the fabric of space. Now pretend you have a scissor (or sword), and that is your "space cutting power". How would you ignore distance when you have to manually travel the full infinite distance to cut all of it? You'd only ever be cutting finite amounts of space at once. Of course, if you had infinite speed or an infinitely long scissor, you could cut through the paper. But in this case, you only have kilometers of range going off the profile.

It's Infinite range within a localized area. You still need to travel an infinite distance to travel through it, so I feel this point is a bit nitpicky. It's obvious the range doesn't extend to the edges of the universe.
 
Sumu
LaserPrecision said:
I mean I'm not really here to argue in anyone's favor, but I don't think basic spatial cutting is getting through infinity.

But he didn't say he just cut through the world. He stated it extended "all the way to space, existence, the world themselves" then went on to say "without regard to your inviolability, as long as it exists inside that space, that world, those existences would split apart". To me it sounds like Sukuna is targeting all of Infinity at once through technique extension. Meaning it cut through infinite space simultaneously.

No, I wouldn't say so. Usually it's localized to a small area. Think of character's who cut open space to create a portal or cut through a single person. But maybe I'm wrong? I figured it to usually be a localized phenomena, otherwise what's stopping someone from cutting the entire universe in half?
Click to expand...
What translation are you using? Would you mind referring to the scans themselves? Cuz maybe I don’t have the same translation as youz
 
LaserPrecision said:
Could you break it down more for me? I do actually want to make an attempt at understanding your point. I don't wanna seem like some hurr durr JJK stonewall.

How does space cutting ignore distance? Like, imagine you have an infinitely long strip of paper extending out into space. Pretend the paper is the fabric of space. Now pretend you have a scissor (or sword), and that is your "space cutting power". How would you ignore distance when you have to manually travel the full infinite distance to cut all of it? You'd only ever be cutting finite amounts of space at once. Of course, if you had infinite speed or an infinitely long scissor, you could cut through the paper. But in this case, you only have kilometers of range going off the profile.

It's Infinite range within a localized area. You still need to travel an infinite distance to travel through it, so I feel this point is a bit nitpicky. It's obvious the range doesn't extend to the edges of the universe.
Click to expand...
The bold disproves the point of it being "infinite space"

It isn't infinite space. Gojo adds an infinite amount of points into a finite area (space).

Here, this is a more accurate analogy.

Let's say that piece of paper is Gojo's infinity. It's finite in area, but the amount of points across it is infinite. If one did not have magical paper cutting scissors, going across that paper would require one to go across infinite points.

However, those paper cutting scissors would ignore those points by just cutting the paper itself. The paper isn't infinite, so any scissor with the proper range would go across the entire thing.
 
Phoenks said:
The bold disproves the point of it being "infinite space"

It isn't infinite space. Gojo adds an infinite amount of points into a finite area (space).

Here, this is a more accurate analogy.

Let's say that piece of paper is Gojo's infinity. It's finite in area, but the amount of points across it is infinite. If one did not have magical paper cutting scissors, going across that paper would require one to go across infinite points.

However, those paper cutting scissors would ignore those points by just cutting the paper itself. The paper isn't infinite, so any scissor with the proper range would go across the entire thing.
Click to expand...
What I don't quite get is why the scissors would have to ignore the "points" (Just more space) when the scissors have to actually travel through said points to cut the paper. The way I see it, you'd start cutting the paper, then start "slowing down" as you get closer to cutting through it. Spatial cutting still needs to travel distance, and Gojo creates distance within a localized area. Thus it wouldn't be exempt from traveling said distance just because it can actually cut through said material.

If the scissors couldn't cut through an infinite area to begin with, why would it be able to cut through a infinite area compressed into a small area. Spatial cutting isn't infinite speed by default.
 
This is the same argument as last thread.

Why are you falling into the same infinite distance cut argument that JJK fans won’t let through when Sukuna cut space itself to bypass it but now the cope is infinite range?
 
LaserPrecision said:
What I don't quite get is why the scissors would have to ignore the "points" (Just more space) when the scissors have to actually travel through said points to cut the paper. The way I see it, you'd start cutting the paper, then start "slowing down" as you get closer to cutting through it. Spatial cutting still needs to travel distance, and Gojo creates distance within a localized area. Thus it wouldn't be exempt from traveling said distance just because it can actually cut through said material.
Click to expand...
By cutting the paper, you are splitting space apart and travelling through a void. This is why I say it's "ignoring" space. You aren't even really within the confines of that paper anymore, thus those points within it are irrelevant to your scissors.
 
PhantomØ4 said:
This is the same argument as last thread.

Why are you falling into the same infinite distance cut argument that JJK fans won’t let through when Sukuna cut space itself to bypass it but now the cope is infinite range?
Click to expand...
Tbf, I don't think it's infinite range, that's what I saw being concluded about what happened. I think it's just Infinite speed (With that specific application of his technique) since Sukuna stated he cut all of Infinity. Thus it would need to travel an infinite speed to travel through infinite coordinates of space.
Phoenks said:
By cutting the paper, you are splitting space apart and travelling through a void. This is why I say it's "ignoring" space. You aren't even really within the confines of that paper anymore, thus those points within it are irrelevant to your scissors.
Click to expand...
You ignore space, but still travel a measurable "distance". And Infinity generates an infinite distance within a finite space. But since my pov seems heavily contested, I won't ramble on about it too much. It's probably just something I have trouble grasping. I don't wanna come off as biased so I'll withhold my vote (I didn't plan to vote to begin with, but it seemed like I did, so I had to say that just to confirm).
 
Anyways, since we are here imma just say that “all the way to” doesn’t refer to range but to the degree to which it goes to cut, same as in “all the way to the molecules” or “all the way to changing the meta”. And “space, existence, the world” is simply the fact that everything in existence lies within space, as long as Satarou’s technique was within it it could cut it.

I don’t really see where it implies it cuts all of infinity at once without just straight up bypassing it? That’s purely extrapolation considering the whole two pages imply he bypasses/goes around infinity; refer to “without regard for your inviolability”

An infinite speed attack would have gone through infinity without needing to cut space at all.
 
One is getting beaten by Lord Momonga and the other already got and led to a huge discuss

I think "ignore this mathematical bullsh*t" bless really wins here, unless Gojo has time to Mastermind his way (since death is a valid wincon, if gojo just murders him once he wins)

Who you guys think will bullsh*t their way first? Long live Lord Momonga and viva a guilda Ainz Ooal Gown, tho.
 
noninho said:
One is getting beaten by Lord Momonga and the other already got and led to a huge discuss

I think "ignore this mathematical bullsh*t" bless really wins here, unless Gojo has time to Mastermind his way (since death is a valid wincon, if gojo just murders him once he wins)

Who you guys think will bullsh*t their way first? Long live Lord Momonga and viva a guilda Ainz Ooal Gown, tho.
Click to expand...
Are you drunk? What fück you talking about?
 
noninho said:
One is getting beaten by Lord Momonga and the other already got and led to a huge discuss

I think "ignore this mathematical bullsh*t" bless really wins here, unless Gojo has time to Mastermind his way (since death is a valid wincon, if gojo just murders him once he wins)

Who you guys think will bullsh*t their way first? Long live Lord Momonga and viva a guilda Ainz Ooal Gown, tho.
Click to expand...
not really since Reinhard will simply revive himself?
 
Ok.
So is either Reinhard cuts infinity first, or Gojo use his Domain to **** Reinhard brain.

Not sure which one will happen first trought.
I don't think Gojo uses his Domain is his first move right? And i don't think nuking is Reinhard first would be his first option against Gojo.

So this is another boring fight when the winner is decided on who moves first, so Reinhard would most likely have the advantage with his blessing that let his initial attack hit First.
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
not really since Reinhard will simply revive himself?
Click to expand...
You explicitly told us in OP that every win condition is valid. Killing, despite he being able to revive, is a valid wincon cuz effectively he, you know, died.

Fezzih_007 said:
Not sure which one will happen first trought.
I don't think Gojo uses his Domain is his first move right? And i don't think nuking is Reinhard first would be his first option against Gojo.

So this is another boring fight when the winner is decided on who moves first
Click to expand...
I could not agree more.
So I think Rein would move first...what exactly would he do?
 
Tatsumi504 said:
How is it info 2
Click to expand...
I don't know, I just know that it's type 2 information, and it's on the cursed energy page.

Fezzih_007 said:
Gojo use his Domain to ***** Reinhard brain.
Click to expand...
I don't think gojo needs the domain. Everything is done through cursed energy, isn't it? So all gojo techniques would have type 2 information manipulation, right?

Even sorcerers have resistance to type 2 information manipulation because of the cursed energy.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
I can't remember that
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
It's literally on the cursed energy page.

Tatsumi504 said:
No
Click to expand...
Actually yes.
Click to expand...
They have resistance to this precisely because everything is cursed energy, so Reinahard would not resist some cursed technique because of this.
 
Reinhard gets put into a function. He still has no way I'm aware of to bypass Infinity. He still can't resist DE.

Regular spatial slashes mean nothing. Gojo's infinity is it's own inaccessible space. Sukuna needed to literally target the concept of all existence to hit Gojo, and he explicitly mentions Gojo existing in "that world" further highlighting the extremes of "existence" Sukuna needed to cover with his slash.

Also, spatial slashes only ignore distance over their target area. A person with a 50m spatial slash cannot cut across the universe. As soon as a spatial slash reaches Gojo, it will be subject to his infinity space and get faded. I still don't see a viable wincon.

If Reinhard can indeed get to a point of combat speed that Gojo can't react to before opening DE, it's an inconclusive result.
 
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