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Peak Alien vs Peak Human

Churchill said:
So their thought based hax should be relative in speed...
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No, because Ben needs to transform to the right alien the first time which just isnt happening and Reinhard can easily sleep hax him during that time due to the perception boost
Churchill said:
Perception boosts make things unfair until master control and transformation speed absolutely swats that.
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No they dont
Churchill said:
Seriously, it's quite loud how the unequal speed is seemingly neglected on this thread.

Immeasurable speed evades hax here, even if they're passive.
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Also no, Failsafe has never helped Ben in scenarios where he is knocked out
Churchill said:
Reinhard isn't gonna be accomplishing anything by opting for a kill move. He also isn't going to be attacking meaningfully if Ben decides to transform because he'd be transforming before anything was done and would still retain knowledge unlike Reinhard.
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That would be under the wrong assumption that Reinhard opts for a kill move to win

Churchill said:
Ben essentially has an eternity of an eternity to figure out how to drop him with either his planetary and mftl range aliens, feedback, clockwork, NRG...

Are you sure you intend on leaving the omnitix' immeasurable speed intact?
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Yeah because Reinhard has godly instinct + perception boost + sleep hax
 
Reiner04 said:
Even if that gets restricted, Omnitrix still have it's failsafe which reacts to EE. So it'll transform ben or save him by any means possible. And Ben being smart enough quickly realise that this guy is no small deal and will use hax based stuff.

But restricting failsafe itself will make the match stomp.

Also Omnitrix has resistance towards EE, as long as Omnitrix exist, Ben can be brought back.
Click to expand...
Yayy, Rei' Back... How're ya?


Anyway, you're right...
I was moreso asking if she wants to, perhaps, consider some sort of speed equalization because if the Omnitrix, SBA applied, reacts and transforms, Reinhard wouldn't have prior - or latter? It's so hard to tell... knowledge while Ben would
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
No, because Ben needs to transform to the right alien the first time which just isnt happening and Reinhard can easily sleep hax him during that time due to the perception boost
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Not really? He transforms to any alien before he transforms. Perception boost isn't phasing a thought-based speed-based time travel transformation
SatellaTheWoE said:
No they dont
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They do tho. I can't believe immeasurable speed is being debated here
SatellaTheWoE said:
Also no, Failsafe has never helped Ben in scenarios where he is knocked out
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I never implied or hinted at that, did I?
SatellaTheWoE said:
That would be under the wrong assumption that Reinhard opts for a kill move to win
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That was me trying to cover the most variables I can. That wasn't a "wrong assumption", that's why there are more statements providing the context of my stance
SatellaTheWoE said:
Yeah because Reinhard has godly instinct + perception boost + sleep hax
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Immeasurable speed + constant lack of knowledge + eternity to cook up several wins + absolutely stat monsters
 
Churchill said:
Yayy, Rei' Back... How're ya?
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Feeling much better now that I'm talking to you, yes!
1113776858106962010.png


Also Omnitrix master control is instinctive based so it should be higher or equal to perception based attacks even if failsafe is not at play.
 
Reiner04 said:
Is sleep hax his first move tho?
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Yes he has on numerous occasions glared at his opponents
Churchill said:
Not really? He transforms to any alien before he transforms. Perception boost isn't phasing a thought-based speed-based time travel transformation

They do tho. I can't believe immeasurable speed is being debated here

I never implied or hinted at that, did I?

That was me trying to cover the most variables I can. That wasn't a "wrong assumption", that's why there are more statements providing the context of my stance

Immeasurable speed + constant lack of knowledge + eternity to cook up several wins + absolutely stat monsters
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You have a great misunderstanding going on here, Reinhard has godly intuition which tells him the correct thing to do in all situations. The omnitrix failsafe will ONLY activate if he is mortal danger so him being sleep haxed doesn't really do much. And THAT is immeasurable speed. It wouldnt save him from being knocked out.

Also worth mentioning that Reinhard just touching The omnitrix once will give him all the knowledge on its usage and he can even take it off ben if he wants to.
He can leave him omnitrixless after sleep haxing lol

Reinhard doesnt need prior knowledge since he knows what to do in all situations, ben doesnt have an eternity to cook up several wins either since he would need to transform for that into the correct alien, which isnt happening since he mostly transforms into his more fighting type aliens like humoungasaur

and that would need to be before Reinhard sleep haxes him
 
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SatellaTheWoE said:
You have a great misunderstanding going on here, Reinhard has godly intuition which tells him the correct thing to do in all situations. The omnitrix failsafe will ONLY activate if he is mortal danger so him being sleep haxed doesn't really do much. And THAT is immeasurable speed. It wouldnt save him from being knocked out.
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Stella, you seem to misunderstand me.

I only addressed the failsafe in relation to kill or life threatening moves.

Everything else was based on reaction and transformation speed which ARE infact immeasurable.
SatellaTheWoE said:
Also worth mentioning that Reinhard just touching The omnitrix once will give him all the knowledge on its usage and he can even take it off ben if he wants to.
He can leave him omnitrixless after sleep haxing lol
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Uhmm, you can't forcefully take the Omnitrix...so, yea. Not like he would even get the opportunity in this scenario given there's no sleeping happening

Plus is there any proof he can assimilate that much, hell, a universe worth of data from the Omnitrix? I see nothing on his profile proving that
SatellaTheWoE said:
Reinhard doesnt need prior knowledge since he knows what to do in all situations, ben doesnt have an eternity to cook up several wins either since he would need to transform for that into the correct alien, which isnt happening since he mostly transforms into his more fighting type aliens like humoungasaur
Click to expand...
"Prior knowledge" in the sense that Ben constantly gains in battle information while Reinhard remains clueless due to Ben's temporal wonkyness.

Yes, Absolutely yes, Ben does indeed have an eternity of eternity to cook due to immeasurable reaction and transformation speed. He's not, or rather, never got hit with his hax in the first place due to his immeasurable speed. Reinhard would be infinitely statued via transformation...It's how immeasurable speed is treated.

Plus, aside that, Ben literally has inorganic aliens to walk his sleep hax. As well as the fact that new aliens don't possess damage inflicted on prior aliens after a transformation.
There are correct aliens.

It also seems you're severely downplaying Ben's common sense in general.
He immediately turned into pesky dust after getting overpowered as humongosaur by an opponent (forgot his name, maybe Rei could help with that). Ben has also used a wide array of "non combat" aliens to take care of tasks. Claiming it "isn't happening" is a little wayyyyyyyyy too much

SatellaTheWoE said:
and that would need to be before Reinhard sleep haxes him
Click to expand...
Not really because Ben can still transform before the sleep hax hits fully and when he does, effects dealt to former forms desipate. And also, yea, given the transformation takes place before the hax via it's immeasurable speed, Ben's action would be fundamentally before reinhard'...

If still after this there're texts on this same issue, might as well just agree to disagree then, or something, idk
 
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Fezzih_007 said:
That's not his sleeping hax trought? The sleeping hax would be him absorbing Ben mana, and making him lose conscious after sucking him.

That's just him emperor Haki. Which would work here.
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Does he absorb mana for the sleep hax tho? The "Felt" scan was kinda ambiguous...
It just says "as her power left her body", which might as well be a normal symptom of sleepiness and tiredness...

Still though, terraspin should resist, transformation should evade it via speed and new forms not being affected by damage on prior forms
 
Also Ben got ****** ton of willpower that I'm planning to give him someday. He was able to wake up from forever knights dream cell which made him sleep + dream the way they want. In Ben 10 UAF nightmare episode, Ben forces his way out of dream manp too. In Ben 10 omniverse Malfactor episode, Ben forces his way out of dream manp of preditor of necrofigians to the point he became completely resistant to it afterwards.
 
Please do your research properly next time..
Churchill said:
Stella, you seem to misunderstand me.

I only addressed the failsafe in relation to kill or life threatening moves.

Everything else was based on reaction and transformation speed which ARE infact immeasurable.
Click to expand...
Bens speed:
Relativistic combat and reaction speed
Click to expand...
Omnitrix's Speed:
Infinite attack speed with its fully charged self-destruct mode and Immeasurable reaction and transformation speed via failsafe
Click to expand...
Failsafe only activates when he is in mortal danger, sleep hax isnt mortal danger and BEN doesnt have immeasurable speed, the Omnitrix does.

Uhmm, you can't forcefully take the Omnitrix...so, yea. Not like he would even get the opportunity in this scenario given there's no sleeping happening

Plus is there any proof he can assimilate that much, hell, a universe worth of data from the Omnitrix? I see nothing on his profile proving that
Click to expand...
He doesn't need to assimilate a universe worth of data, all he needs is to know every single detail on how to use it. Which he can do by just touching it once and knowing everything instinctually
Churchill said:
"Prior knowledge" in the sense that Ben constantly gains in battle information while Reinhard remains clueless due to Ben's temporal wonkyness.

Yes, Absolutely yes, Ben does indeed have an eternity of eternity to cook due to immeasurable reaction and transformation speed. He's not, or rather, never got hit with his hax in the first place due to his immeasurable speed. Reinhard would be infinitely statued via transformation...It's how immeasurable speed is treated.
Click to expand...
Give me one example of Ben not being in mortal danger and the watch forcefully transforming him. I will wait.
Churchill said:
Plus, aside that, Ben literally has inorganic aliens to walk his sleep hax. There are correct aliens.
Click to expand...
Reinhard's glare hax should also work on Mogoro and his people who are literal walking pieces of metal. Inorganic physiology wont save him from sleep hax
Churchill said:
It also seems you're severely downplaying Ben's common sense in general.
He immediately turned into pesky dust after getting overpowered as humongosaur by an opponent (forgot his name, maybe Rei could help with that). Ben has also used a wide array of "non combat" aliens to take care of tasks. Claiming it "isn't happening" is a little wayyyyyyyyy too much
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, he realizes he cant defeat his opponent AFTER transforming, that will severely help him when turning into a handful of correct aliens he barely uses is the only way he doesnt get sleep haxed, ignoring the fact that he would get sleep haxed before he even transforms
Churchill said:
Not really because Ben can still transform before the sleep hax hits fully and when he does, effects dealt to former forms desipate.
Click to expand...
There is no time lag between Reinhard glaring at him and Ben falling asleep.
Churchill said:
And also, yea, given the transformation takes place before the hax via it's immeasurable speed, Ben's action would be fundamentally before reinhard'...

If still after this there're texts on this same issue, might as well just agree to disagree then, or something, idk
Click to expand...
My brother in christ, his immeasurable transformation speed is with his failsafe, I have no clue why you are unable to process that. Otherwise there would be no time in ben 10 where would need to not be as ben in a dangerous situation because the loading would be finished in the future.



Churchill said:
Does he absorb mana for the sleep hax tho? The "Felt" scan was kinda ambiguous...
It just says "as her power left her body", which might as well be a normal symptom of sleepiness and tiredness...
Click to expand...
He can do it gently like he did with felt...or he could just let his absorption go wild which caused Emilia, the one with the most mana in the series to instantly collapse and almost pass out. He didnt go all out there either btw so his capacity of absorption is probably much MUCH higher.
He can also just glare at ben which would cause him to faint due to Emperor haki shenanigans
Churchill said:
Still though, terraspin should resist, transformation should evade it via speed and new forms not being affected by damage on prior forms
Click to expand...
Reinhard can still sleep hax most of his transformations, and as i said above inorganic physiology wouldnt save him

Reiner04 said:
What a weird stuff ngl. But Ben can transform into Ghostfreak before it even happens instinctively.
Click to expand...
He has transformed into ghostfreak like a handful of times and Reinhard can stomp that transformation normally anyway🗿
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
He has transformed into ghostfreak like a handful of times and Reinhard can stomp that transformation normally anyway
Click to expand...
Did I tell u Ghostfreak was dangerous Alien to transform into till Omniverse version of Omnitrix came out? Yup. There are barely any characters who can resist mana absorption, i don't see why he wouldn't go for them and prefer to get nuked.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
He did.
Like, he need to kidnap a loli real Quick,
Click to expand...
Lmfao ...almost cackled, not cool
Fezzih_007 said:
and she was struggling to get free,
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Son😳
Fezzih_007 said:
so he put his Hand on her hand
Click to expand...
To pray?🤔
Fezzih_007 said:
, his hand glow a little, and the next minute she loses conscious.

She was not very tired previous to this.
Click to expand...
Oh, thanks for that. But that doesn't really mean or say her energy was drained. I wasn't implying she was tired prior, I was moreso saying it very well could be that that was just her getting sleepy due to him. Like, he touches her head and his hands lightly illuminate, she feels sleepy, "legs weakened", strength leaves her body and she drops.
I hope you resonate with my thoughts.
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
Please do your research properly next time..
Click to expand...
??? Nvm
SatellaTheWoE said:
Bens speed:

Omnitrix's Speed:

Failsafe only activates when he is in mortal danger, sleep hax isnt mortal danger and BEN doesnt have immeasurable speed, the Omnitrix does.
Click to expand...
The Omnitrix transforms Ben, the Omnitrix has the speed, it's his weapon... Kinda irrelevant that part.
SatellaTheWoE said:
He doesn't need to assimilate a universe worth of data, all he needs is to know every single detail on how to use it. Which he can do by just touching it once and knowing everything instinctually
Click to expand...
Okay.
SatellaTheWoE said:
Give me one example of Ben not being in mortal danger and the watch forcefully transforming him. I will wait.
Click to expand...
I was talking about it's transformation speed in general..plus this is with master control and SBA
SatellaTheWoE said:
Reinhard's glare hax should also work on Mogoro and his people who are literal walking pieces of metal. Inorganic physiology wont save him from sleep hax
Click to expand...
How about radiation? Sub atomic particles.
Also, should it or did it?
SatellaTheWoE said:
Oh yeah, he realizes he cant defeat his opponent AFTER transforming, that will severely help him when turning into a handful of correct aliens he barely uses is the only way he doesnt get sleep haxed, ignoring the fact that he would get sleep haxed before he even transforms
Click to expand...
...?
SatellaTheWoE said:
There is no time lag between Reinhard glaring at him and Ben falling asleep.

My brother in christ, his immeasurable transformation speed is with his failsafe, I have no clue why you are unable to process that. Otherwise there would be no time in ben 10 where would need to not be as ben in a dangerous situation because the loading would be finished in the future.




He can do it gently like he did with felt...or he could just let his absorption go wild which caused Emilia, the one with the most mana in the series to instantly collapse and almost pass out. He didnt go all out there either btw so his capacity of absorption is probably much MUCH higher.
He can also just glare at ben which would cause him to faint due to Emperor haki shenanigans

Reinhard can still sleep hax most of his transformations, and as i said above inorganic physiology wouldnt save him


He has transformed into ghostfreak like a handful of times and Reinhard can stomp that transformation normally anyway🗿
Click to expand...
I've mostly addressed all these.
I disagree and feel like a brainwashed SpongeBob driving in loops...
I don't concur, Stel—😳
Wait, it's SATELLA??💀💀💀 Daymn. My life is a lie.
Sorry for the "misnaming" t?
You and Rei can go at it tho.
Transforming into speedster rn, watching and liking from the sidelines lol
 
Churchill said:
??? Nvm

The Omnitrix transforms Ben, the Omnitrix has the speed, it's his weapon... Kinda irrelevant that part.
Click to expand...
Since ben has to do the thinkinģ to transform it will affect him, and if Reinhard can knock him out before he thinks of transforming then he wins. Do you get it now?.
Churchill said:
I disagree and feel like a brainwashed SpongeBob driving in loops...
I don't concur, Stel—😳
Wait, it's SATELLA??💀💀💀 Daymn. My life is a lie.
Sorry for the "misnaming" t?
Click to expand...
Surprisingly not the first time considering how easy Satella is to spell...
 
This thread is just us five people derailing and debating what's already been discussed.. from page one to four. I don't know how it ended like this... maybe Ben is cursed? Every vs thread that involves Ben is never concluded unless a miracle occurs..
 
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