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Arc Comes Home With The Milk [Bleach Soul Society Arc Captain Class Scaling]

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AKUTO123 said:
"In the letter he wrote to Momo Hinamori, Sōsuke Aizen claims Tōshirō Hitsugaya planned to use the Sōkyoku’s immense power to destroy Soul Society".I think this word of Aizen remained in my mind as a general statement. It made me think that soukyoku's strength must surpass all captains.
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Naw there’s never a statement that the Sokyoku > Captains.
 
AKUTO123 said:
"In the letter he wrote to Momo Hinamori, Sōsuke Aizen claims Tōshirō Hitsugaya planned to use the Sōkyoku’s immense power to destroy Soul Society".I think this word of Aizen remained in my mind as a general statement. It made me think that soukyoku's strength must surpass all captains.
Click to expand...
I don't know how this phrase came to my mind, but it stuck like "a person with a soukyoku is stronger than anyone else". It's my fault.
 
Ok, first of all, I agree with Shikai Ichigo scaling to the Sogyoku, I don’t think it’s an outlier and I think the scaling is pretty direct, I think the verse also having future arcs that contain 6-A and higher feats adds legitimacy to the 6-B calc scaling to SS Arc Ichigo as well, he fought the Sogyokums true form, makes sense he scales to its full power

As for the AP thing, I’m not behind the AP equalling out to Attack+Reiatsu stats. For one, I’m 99% sure Kenpachi uses Reiatsu for his attack power. As well, a lot of these statements refer to the Reiatsu stat as being based on Kido, and it’s basically stated that’s specifically why Zaraki has a zero in that stat. I think AP should very likely be based on the Attack Stat. Now as for why Komamura has that stat. For one, Komamura is all based on raw power, and I don’t think his Bankai has any anti-feats of having raw power far below the level of Unohana and Yamamoto if I remember correctly? Doesn’t he not fight any Espada and only fight Tosen? With Tosen narratively above the Espada in Base. Then we have Zaraki, and it’s possible the 199 is referring to his latent potential that he used to have as a kid, being the potential that surpasses Bankai Yamamoto, Unohana, and a lot of the SS Captains in feat. As for Shunsui and Jushiro being below Komamura in raw power, aren’t their Shikai and Bankai based more around versatility and hax rather than raw power, so it’s possible they have lower AP than Komamura right? As for generak scaling, I think a lot of stuff is self explanatory from the series itself and I agree with a lot of the scaling stuff in the OP, but not exactly with AP equalling Attack Stat+Reiatsu/Kido Stat. Maybe I am forgetting some stuff, but this is my current stance
 
I’ll respond to your later points soon like a couple of hours, but atm you’re in agree for the direct scaling?
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Ok, first of all, I agree with Shikai Ichigo scaling to the Sogyoku, I don’t think it’s an outlier and I think the scaling is pretty direct, I think the verse also having future arcs that contain 6-A and higher feats adds legitimacy to the 6-B calc scaling to SS Arc Ichigo as well, he fought the Sogyokums true form, makes sense he scales to its full power

As for the AP thing, I’m not behind the AP equalling out to Attack+Reiatsu stats. For one, I’m 99% sure Kenpachi uses Reiatsu for his attack power. As well, a lot of these statements refer to the Reiatsu stat as being based on Kido, and it’s basically stated that’s specifically why Zaraki has a zero in that stat. I think AP should very likely be based on the Attack Stat. Now as for why Komamura has that stat. For one, Komamura is all based on raw power, and I don’t think his Bankai has any anti-feats of having raw power far below the level of Unohana and Yamamoto if I remember correctly? Doesn’t he not fight any Espada and only fight Tosen? With Tosen narratively above the Espada in Base. Then we have Zaraki, and it’s possible the 199 is referring to his latent potential that he used to have as a kid, being the potential that surpasses Bankai Yamamoto, Unohana, and a lot of the SS Captains in feat. As for Shunsui and Jushiro being below Komamura in raw power, aren’t their Shikai and Bankai based more around versatility and hax rather than raw power, so it’s possible they have lower AP than Komamura right? As for generak scaling, I think a lot of stuff is self explanatory from the series itself and I agree with a lot of the scaling stuff in the OP, but not exactly with AP equalling Attack Stat+Reiatsu/Kido Stat. Maybe I am forgetting some stuff, but this is my current stance
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This

Mix in Clover's at most rating feeling with this as well, then fuse it with Soi Fon not scaling at all
 
KingTempest said:
This

Mix in Clover's at most rating feeling with this as well, then fuse it with Soi Fon not scaling at all
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So you’re like sold on the direct scaling, iffy on the databook scaling, but fine with like possibly giving people at mosts for “downscaling”?

Can I put you KT as agree for direct scaling, possibly/neutral on at most scaling, and no for Soi Fon? Tentatively speaking ofc, since I probably won’t respond until Christmas night
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Ok, first of all, I agree with Shikai Ichigo scaling to the Sogyoku, I don’t think it’s an outlier and I think the scaling is pretty direct, I think the verse also having future arcs that contain 6-A and higher feats adds legitimacy to the 6-B calc scaling to SS Arc Ichigo as well, he fought the Sogyokums true form, makes sense he scales to its full power

As for the AP thing, I’m not behind the AP equalling out to Attack+Reiatsu stats. For one, I’m 99% sure Kenpachi uses Reiatsu for his attack power. As well, a lot of these statements refer to the Reiatsu stat as being based on Kido, and it’s basically stated that’s specifically why Zaraki has a zero in that stat. I think AP should very likely be based on the Attack Stat. Now as for why Komamura has that stat. For one, Komamura is all based on raw power, and I don’t think his Bankai has any anti-feats of having raw power far below the level of Unohana and Yamamoto if I remember correctly? Doesn’t he not fight any Espada and only fight Tosen? With Tosen narratively above the Espada in Base. Then we have Zaraki, and it’s possible the 199 is referring to his latent potential that he used to have as a kid, being the potential that surpasses Bankai Yamamoto, Unohana, and a lot of the SS Captains in feat. As for Shunsui and Jushiro being below Komamura in raw power, aren’t their Shikai and Bankai based more around versatility and hax rather than raw power, so it’s possible they have lower AP than Komamura right? As for generak scaling, I think a lot of stuff is self explanatory from the series itself and I agree with a lot of the scaling stuff in the OP, but not exactly with AP equalling Attack Stat+Reiatsu/Kido Stat. Maybe I am forgetting some stuff, but this is my current stance
Click to expand...
Summing both just give more accurate results with what we see, not like it changes much Anyway
 
Outstated?

If you mean outdated, then no because we're specifically talking about the arc which these databooks speak upon. (The Soul Society arc), not the entirety of Bleach.
 
I’m going to address Mitch’s concern about the databook stats at the end of the day, since we are all understandably likely busy, 🎄 🕎
 
I can share the simplest of my assessments today which is that I do think that Soi-Fon and Yoruichi shouldn't be scaling to this at all and should get Unknowns if there is nothing better.

Neutral on Shunsui and Ukitake getting SS Arc keys.

Komamura's Bankai could get a possibly/likely scaling to Zaraki.

Mayuri's statement doesn't look good enough for Uryu to be scaling directly to the Sokyoku since we don't know if Mayuri has ever witnessed the power of the Sokyoku firsthand.


I'll post my main thoughts on the proposed scaling tomorrow. Hope everyone's having a good Christmas.
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
As for the AP thing, I’m not behind the AP equalling out to Attack+Reiatsu stats. For one, I’m 99% sure Kenpachi uses Reiatsu for his attack power. As well, a lot of these statements refer to the Reiatsu stat as being based on Kido, and it’s basically stated that’s specifically why Zaraki has a zero in that stat. I think AP should very likely be based on the Attack Stat.
Click to expand...
So the spiritual pressure stat is not a measure of “how much you have” but “how well you can use it”. Because spiritual pressure isn’t an energy source, that’s spirit energy (confusing but you know Kubo). Your spiritual pressure is your ability to exert your spirit energy in a combat manner. In video game terms, it’s like the spirit energy is your ultimate meter, and the spiritual pressure is actually using that ultimate. So when the databook says Zaraki has 0 spiritual pressure it’s not saying if you put a measuring device to his body you’d record 0 spiritual pressure, because that would indicate you have 0 spirit energy, which for a Shinigami would mean they’re dead (because your spirit energy is proportional to your life force). Rather it is saying that Zaraki has 0 control over his spiritual pressure. Which is consistent with what we see, he doesn’t actively use it, like say Ichigo condensing his power around his blade, Zaraki let’s it just flow out of himself and radiate wildly with no control. That’s the reason he wears the eye patch, he can’t control his spiritual pressure. So, to sum up this point spiritual pressure stat isn’t an amount rating, it’s a proficiency rating. That’s why SP + Atk = AP, because your proficiency/ability to exert your spirit energy in the most optimal way possible (high spiritual pressure) + your raw physicality (high attack) sum together to form your AP. We know AP is the combination of the two as we see in the series physically weaker characters (like Mayuri) are capable of fighting with physically stronger characters because your magic samurai power is factored into tour

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Now as for why Komamura has that stat. For one, Komamura is all based on raw power, and I don’t think his Bankai has any anti-feats of having raw power far below the level of Unohana and Yamamoto if I remember correctly? Doesn’t he not fight any Espada and only fight Tosen? With Tosen narratively above the Espada in Base.
Click to expand...
Komamura’s Bankai being base Yama/base Unohana level does have antifeats. Komamura’s Bankai after having 1-3 months to train in the early Arrancar arc is able to keep up with Hollow Mask Tosen and then is entirely overwhelmed by Res Tosen. Base Aizen far surpasses Res Tosen, and base Yama (who Kubo states that Yama’s power level doesn’t change across the series) is on that base Aizen tier. So if just the Attack stat was what determined AP it would be wildly inconsistent. Which leads more credence with my more consistent AP = SP + Atk. Furthermore, these stats are for the Captains base forms. I go into a lot more detail about why that is so and why it’s consistent for that to be the case across the entirety of the OP. However, the tldr version is that the stats are appended to base versions of the Captains visually and the scaling is by far more consistent to refer to the base versions, but again if you want the fleshed out explanation you’d have to reread the entire OP as the scaling for each individual character builds that consisten

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
Then we have Zaraki, and it’s possible the 199 is referring to his latent potential that he used to have as a kid, being the potential that surpasses Bankai Yamamoto, Unohana, and a lot of the SS Captains in feat.
Click to expand...
There’s no reason to assume these stats are talking about the character’s latent potentials. That claim is very baseless and isn’t nearly as consistent as my interpretations that ive

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
As for Shunsui and Jushiro being below Komamura in raw power, aren’t their Shikai and Bankai based more around versatility and hax rather than raw power, so it’s possible they have lower AP than Komamura right?
Click to expand...
As I bring up earlier, that stats are for their base forms so I won’t pad out this response by repeating it. However, Komamura having a higher Attack stat means his raw physical strength is above Shunsui and Jushiro’s. The databook refers to attack as your “raw physical strength” btw im not just making that up lol. Which is not so crazy as Zaraki praises his brute strength. So like Komamura could like bench more or beat the dynamic duo in arm wrestling or sumn purely physical based, but doesn’t have more AP because his fine tuning of his spiritual pressure is less.

DemonGodMitchAubin said:
As for generak scaling, I think a lot of stuff is self explanatory from the series itself and I agree with a lot of the scaling stuff in the OP, but not exactly with AP equalling Attack Stat+Reiatsu/Kido Stat. Maybe I am forgetting some stuff, but this is my current stance
Click to expand...
Hopefully I’ve better explained/convinced you about the AP = Atk + SP 👀

@KingTempest ik you shared some of Mitch’s concerns too so consider this geared for you as well.
 
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