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Bleach TYBW Anime Cour 1 AP/Durability Revisions

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UchihaSlayer96 said:
I'm unfamiliar with the mechanics of Blut, so I'm not too sure. However, if using one is more or less equivalent to using the other mechanically, then the possibly should be okay. Although I'm not sure if it's really all that necessary to give out a an AP rating for an ability/amp that was never actually showcased, and is thus completely out of character to use in battle. Adding OoC things to the P&A section makes sense from an indexing standpoint since it's still an ability the character possesses, but I'm not sure about adding stuff to the AP/Tier sections and whatnot. For example, Kakashi can objectively activate the 1st Gate, but we don't give him a rating that's 5x higher than normal because it's simply something he's never used in battle, but he still gets Statistics Amplification on his P&A section because it's an ability he has.

All in all, I'm kinda neutral I guess. A possibly rating is harmless either way, so if I had to lean one way it'd be towards agreeing I suppose.
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I can see that. I’m Bleach we have been adding tiering amps to characters if there’s evidence they have those amps even if they don’t use them in character. For example, Halibel never uses a Cero Oscuras (10x AP amp) but it’s stated all Espada can use it in Res, so we put it on her profile. I’m of the opinion that including OoC stuff is fine, especially for the purpose of indexing, and then in like a note or the weakness section of a character it can be denoted that they aren’t used in character. Gives room for people to use OoC match ups for added variety.
 
Damage3245 said:
He's never used Blut Arterie, so I don't think he should have a rating for it.
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Disagree strongly.

HOS true Bankai was never used… it still deserves scaling and a rating. Ichigo never got the chance to use blut artery either, yet it’s very much possible he can use it if it’s activated by the ossan Zangetsu in a situation where it requires it. If the Ossan saw an opponent equally as fast, but 5x stronger than Ichigo, why wouldn’t he activate blut artery to beat him?
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Disagree strongly.

HOS true Bankai was never used… it still deserves scaling and a rating. Ichigo never got the chance to use blut artery either, yet it’s very much possible he can use it if it’s activated by the ossan Zangetsu in a situation where it requires it. If the Ossan saw an opponent equally as fast, but 5x stronger than Ichigo, why wouldn’t he activate blut artery to beat him?
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Tbf, Ichigo tried to … Pringles Man just said no u.

On topic, we already in the business of slapping ooc stuff on the pages so why tf not continue as we have been?
 
Ichigo never shows or is stated to have the skill or knowledge to use Blut so I don't think it should be included in his scaling, Watch the anime completely dunk on my logic
 
Myxenete said:
Ichigo never shows or is stated to have the skill or knowledge to use Blut so I don't think it should be included in his scaling, Watch the anime completely dunk on my logic
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We literally see him use Blut, while it’s through Zangetsu, he still uses it… I provided multiple scans showing it to be true
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
We literally see him use Blut, while it’s through Zangetsu, he still uses it… I provided multiple scans showing it to be true
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I'm talking about Ichigo using it himself and not through Zangetsu (and don't hit me with the Zangetsu is Ichigo you absolutely understand what I mean), from what I can tell post-blade is me Zangetsu isn't able to support Ichigo like he used to hence why he needs to bombard himself with Yhwach's reiatsu to wake him up
 
I'm pretty sure Ichigo did blow off Yhwach's Blut. In the anime, it specifically shows Yhwach getting hit and a blue reishi aura being blown off of his arm, before his arm gets scorched and charred black. Considering the fact that Yhwach reacted by extending his arm as a sort of shield between the Getsuga and his body, and blut being a mentally activated tech should be faster than physically moving....it makes sense that blue reishi aura could've been is blut in the context of that situation.

Yhwach didn't say he couldn't kill Aizen, he said that it would take too long to kill Aizen. Meaning, if Yhwach wasn't on limited time, he believes he would be able to kill Aizen. Granted, he may not know Muken Aizen is stronger than he was before, but it's interesting
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Disagree strongly.

HOS true Bankai was never used… it still deserves scaling and a rating. Ichigo never got the chance to use blut artery either, yet it’s very much possible he can use it if it’s activated by the ossan Zangetsu in a situation where it requires it. If the Ossan saw an opponent equally as fast, but 5x stronger than Ichigo, why wouldn’t he activate blut artery to beat him?
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Okay. I still disagree with Ichigo having a rating for it.
 
Myxenete said:
I'm talking about Ichigo using it himself and not through Zangetsu (and don't hit me with the Zangetsu is Ichigo you absolutely understand what I mean), from what I can tell post-blade is me Zangetsu isn't able to support Ichigo like he used to hence why he needs to bombard himself with Yhwach's reiatsu to wake him up
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Zangetsu is Ichigo’s weapon, Ichigo uses Zangetsu
 
Jo-Smooth said:
Yhwach didn't say he couldn't kill Aizen, he said that it would take too long to kill Aizen. Meaning, if Yhwach wasn't on limited time, he believes he would be able to kill Aizen. Granted, he may not know Muken Aizen is stronger than he was before, but it's interesting
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Disagree. How would he have killed him? Contextually: we know it’s via waiting for the almighty to come back. At least that’s my speculation, but it makes the most sense. Base Yhwach isn’t transcendent, so it makes sense by taking too long, it means waiting for the almighty to come back.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
Disagree. How would he have killed him? Contextually: we know it’s via waiting for the almighty to come back. At least that’s my speculation, but it makes the most sense. Base Yhwach isn’t transcendent, so it makes sense by taking too long, it means waiting for the almighty to come back.
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We don’t know how he could’ve killed him. But it’s not the Almighty he was referring too. Yhwach didn’t say he had to wait to kill Aizen or anything like that, all he said was that it would take too long to kill Aizen at that moment in time.

Implying that Yhwach believes he can take out Aizen right there, but it would just take far too long. And later on we see Yhwach was running on limited time as the Shadows are able to drag him back when time runs out.

Transcendence post Timeskip isn’t handled the same as it was pre Timeskip. People that would’ve been considered transcendent and unable to be affected by non transcendental beings pre skip could be affected post skip, like True Shikai Ichigo and Aizen getting dropped by hax, Aizen’s beyond God Aizen level reiatsu being manipulated by the Gotei’s tech and seals etc

But that’s a whole next topic. I don’t want to go too far off topic but if transcendence is a hill you wanna die on, there’s statements of Complete FB Ichigo transcending Shinigami and Ichigo ‘regaining the elevated power he used to defeat Aizen’ (elevated power referring to a level of power and not just regaining Shinigami powers as a blanket statement) in the FB Arc, which Base Yhwach scales above
 
Jo-Smooth said:
We don’t know how he could’ve killed him. But it’s not the Almighty he was referring too. Yhwach didn’t say he had to wait to kill Aizen or anything like that, all he said was that it would take too long to kill Aizen at that moment in time.

Implying that Yhwach believes he can take out Aizen right there, but it would just take far too long. And later on we see Yhwach was running on limited time as the Shadows are able to drag him back when time runs out.
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Do you really think a 4-C Aizen will be killed by a High 6-A Yhwach. When that same Aizen fought a stronger Yhwach?

Jo-Smooth said:
Transcendence post Timeskip isn’t handled the same as it was pre Timeskip. People that would’ve been considered transcendent and unable to be affected by non transcendental beings pre skip could be affected post skip, like True Shikai Ichigo and Aizen getting dropped by hax, Aizen’s beyond God Aizen level reiatsu being manipulated by the Gotei’s tech and seals etc
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You should know Aizen could have escaped if he wanted.
Jo-Smooth said:
But that’s a whole next topic. I don’t want to go too far off topic but if transcendence is a hill you wanna die on, there’s statements of Complete FB Ichigo transcending Shinigami and Ichigo ‘regaining the elevated power he used to defeat Aizen’ (elevated power referring to a level of power and not just regaining Shinigami powers as a blanket statement) in the FB Arc, which Base Yhwach scales above
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There are different levels of transcendence.
Yama was called transcendence but doesn't mean he is on God Aizen levels of Transcendence.
 
Rereading the OP, what does Byakuya > Mask really mean? All I know was that Byakuya stopped Mask from grabbing Renji with his shikai forming a bit of a wall/shield, with Mask being shocked at there being something in the way of him grabbing Renji. This fits with how unobservant Mask has shown to be. Byakuya also made a trap that Mask didn't notice which took him out of the battlefield, but did no damage, as only his clothing seemed scuffed and that could've been due to the fall. So overall, I'm not quite sure what Byakuya > Mask is meant to imply, unless it's for intelligence cause Mask isn't the smartest guy.

In addition, there's also this

"Vollstandig Robert harms Shikai Shunsui. Robert says he lost his composure, so it’s unsure to me whether or not he would’ve been flustered enough to use Blut with Vollstandig, or just Vollstandig. So, I’ll account for that with possibly ratings. Robert dings a distracted Shunsui.

Possibly Vollstandig Robert > Shikai Shunsui < at least Vollstandig Robert’s Blut = 5x Vollstandig Robert
Robert > distracted Shunsui"

Wasn't it Shunsui who lost his composure? Robert didn't say a single thing or act panicked whatsoever. And Shunsui losing his composure should have no influence on whether or not Robert used Blut. (Also, for clarification, does Blut Arterie affect the damage in general or just physical power? It would be weird if it was in general, but it also does seem like it's meant to be in general)
 
DragonZeroNova said:
Rereading the OP, what does Byakuya > Mask really mean? All I know was that Byakuya stopped Mask from grabbing Renji with his shikai forming a bit of a wall/shield, with Mask being shocked at there being something in the way of him grabbing Renji. This fits with how unobservant Mask has shown to be. Byakuya also made a trap that Mask didn't notice which took him out of the battlefield, but did no damage, as only his clothing seemed scuffed and that could've been due to the fall. So overall, I'm not quite sure what Byakuya > Mask is meant to imply, unless it's for intelligence cause Mask isn't the smartest guy.

In addition, there's also this

"Vollstandig Robert harms Shikai Shunsui. Robert says he lost his composure, so it’s unsure to me whether or not he would’ve been flustered enough to use Blut with Vollstandig, or just Vollstandig. So, I’ll account for that with possibly ratings. Robert dings a distracted Shunsui.

Possibly Vollstandig Robert > Shikai Shunsui < at least Vollstandig Robert’s Blut = 5x Vollstandig Robert
Robert > distracted Shunsui"

Wasn't it Shunsui who lost his composure? Robert didn't say a single thing or act panicked whatsoever. And Shunsui losing his composure should have no influence on whether or not Robert used Blut. (Also, for clarification, does Blut Arterie affect the damage in general or just physical power? It would be weird if it was in general, but it also does seem like it's meant to be in general)
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No during the start of their fight, Robert loses composure and uses Vollstandig. Later in the fight when Yama dies Shunsui gets distracted and Robert dings him.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
No during the start of their fight, Robert loses composure and uses Vollstandig. Later in the fight when Yama dies Shunsui gets distracted and Robert dings him.
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I didn't see him lose composure. Even when he was using Vollstandig or blocking Shunsui's kick, he doesn't seem to be fazed at all. Shunsui was the one who lost his composure and lost his eye for it. He even says it himself, in both the manga and anime that he (Shunsui) was pretending to be calm, but was actually disturbed. Robert hadn't even said a word or changed expressions or shown any signs of shock yet.
 
DragonZeroNova said:
I didn't see him lose composure. Even when he was using Vollstandig or blocking Shunsui's kick, he doesn't seem to be fazed at all. Shunsui was the one who lost his composure and lost his eye for it. He even says it himself, in both the manga and anime that he (Shunsui) was pretending to be calm, but was actually disturbed. Robert hadn't even said a word or changed expressions or shown any signs of shock yet.
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He states it himself that he lost composure, click the links and read and watch carefully. Robert says verbatim that he lost his composure or something akin to that.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
He states it himself that he lost composure, click the links and read and watch carefully. Robert says verbatim that he lost his composure or something akin to that.
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I did. I also reread the manga page and rewatched the episode. That was Shunsui's mouth moving and Shunsui's voice. He was the one who lost his composure.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
No lmao, when Robert used Vollstandig, it’s because he was flustered and momentarily powered up.
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Robert doesn't say anything or act flustered. We even know how he is when he is flustered later in TYBW, but the only thing we know is that he used Vollstandig to avoid Shunsui's attack and it's entirely possible he used it to try and get a quick kill. Shunsui did lose an eye. Just because he used a power up doesn't mean he's flustered, there could be many reasons like wanting to quickly finish a fight, or wanting to be sure someone's attack wouldn't land. Since Robert didn't demonstrate any sign of being flustered, even in the links provided, in the manga or even with sound (TYBW Cour 1 Episode 4: Kill the Shadow 15:50 to 16:25).
I just can't find any signs of Robert being flustered at any time during his fight other than TYBW Cour 1 Episode 6: The Fire 6:10 to 6:16, which had no combat, just conversation between Shunsui and Robert.
 
DragonZeroNova said:
Robert doesn't say anything or act flustered. We even know how he is when he is flustered later in TYBW, but the only thing we know is that he used Vollstandig to avoid Shunsui's attack and it's entirely possible he used it to try and get a quick kill. Shunsui did lose an eye. Just because he used a power up doesn't mean he's flustered, there could be many reasons like wanting to quickly finish a fight, or wanting to be sure someone's attack wouldn't land. Since Robert didn't demonstrate any sign of being flustered, even in the links provided, in the manga or even with sound (TYBW Cour 1 Episode 4: Kill the Shadow 15:50 to 16:25).
I just can't find any signs of Robert being flustered at any time during his fight other than TYBW Cour 1 Episode 6: The Fire 6:10 to 6:16, which had no combat, just conversation between Shunsui and Robert.
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You know what you’re right, I always thought Robert said that 🗿 that’s on me I apologize. I’ll change that when I write justifications
 
Wait so Ichigo has BA but Zangetsu is the one who activates it for him?
 
Nierre said:
Wait so Ichigo has BA but Zangetsu is the one who activates it for him?
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Yeah, same as with Blut Vene. In his Fullbring Zanpakuto key, he doesn't actively use Blut Vene, but Zangetsu activates it for him. Similar premise for Blut Arterie, but possibly because we never see it happen.
 
Jo-Smooth said:
I'm pretty sure Ichigo did blow off Yhwach's Blut. In the anime, it specifically shows Yhwach getting hit and a blue reishi aura being blown off of his arm, before his arm gets scorched and charred black. Considering the fact that Yhwach reacted by extending his arm as a sort of shield between the Getsuga and his body, and blut being a mentally activated tech should be faster than physically moving....it makes sense that blue reishi aura could've been is blut in the context of that situation.
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Honestly I was kinda thinking the same especially after watching the vid a couple times. Yhwach 100% used some kind of reishi defense against it and Blut is the most obvious
 
Damage3245 said:
Being a potential threat and being too immortal for Yhwach to kill doesn't necessarily make Muken Aizen > Yhwach.

I'd say it just makes Muken Aizen ~ Yhwach.
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OP is correct, the problem is he is using future Knowledge of the manga that has yet to appear in the anime.

so the OP needs to hold off on that cause that’s yet to actually take place in the Anime

but yea, Muken Aizen > Base Yhwach by a great amount later down the line.
 
Ovrhide said:
OP is correct, the problem is he is using future Knowledge of the manga that has yet to appear in the anime.

so the OP needs to hold off on that cause that’s yet to actually take place in the Anime

but yea, Muken Aizen > Base Yhwach by a great amount later down the line.
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FRA
 
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