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Bleach Arrancar Arc AP/Durability Justification Revamp (Karakura Invasions ~180-240)

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Arc7Kuroi

Arc7Kuroi

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KT Invasion AP and Durability
Welcome to the continuation of my last thread from Soul Society. Most of the scaling I talk about in here is ripped straight from what we currently accept, I'm just laying it all out to flesh out the justifications and whatnot. There are some new stuff in here, so please check it out thoroughly. I want to preface that I mention some characters in here that get better scaling later on, I only mention them here to add on to their justifications of stats, not to propose that their rating be determined solely by the information at this point (the go to example is I include some stuff to flesh out Ulquiorra's stat justifications here, but I'm not saying Ulquiorra is capped at just being superior to Yammy). I expect this thread to not be near as contentious as the SS arc scaling since I'm not doing anything major like upgrading characters from 7-A to 6-B, I'm just fleshing out widely accepted scaling with better justifications.

Hollow Mask Multiplier​

So, I am not going to tackle the Hollow Mask multiplier yet, I need to grab way more scans from later in the series, do some more thinking, etc etc etc. Therefore, for the time being, this thread will not tackle the Hollow Mask amp and just treat it as a 5x amp to stats as is currently accepted. This doesn’t come up too much for this early section of the Arrancar Arc, as Ichigo doesn’t get the mask until right before he invades Hueco Mundo, and the Visoreds don’t really do battle until the FKT battles (and I am only making revisions from the end of SS until right before Ichigo invades HM). As such, this thread won’t tackle the Hollow Mask multiplier, so don’t derail by debating it, I’m saving that for its own thread.

Gentei Reiin/Kaijo​

Similarly, I think it’s fine to keep that restriction/amp as is accepted on wiki (5x all stats). It also enables us to quantifiably downscale the Fraccion to the Karakura Advance Team rather than just slap them on with more “at most” ratings. In my honest opinion, opting to not quantify this seal would end up wanking the Fraccion to having the same AP rating as characters that they shouldn’t, whereas using it like we do allows for more accurate scaling. However, if someone wants to argue that the Gentei Reiin/Kaijo doesn’t abide by our multiplier standards, I’m more than happy to debate that.

Shinji​

Shinji while holding back scales to Shikai Ichigo. While in his base form he chastises Ichigo for not restraining his spiritual pressure while they clashed (which echoed around the world so Ichigo is planetary gg), indicating Shinji while restraining his spiritual pressure could clash evenly with an Ichigo who wasn’t holding back. Shinji does this to Ichigo again later on too. And again we get confirmation that Shinji isn’t trying while maintaining his superiority to Ichigo. Shinji also cracks Ichigo’s Hollow Mask which is considered to have high durability as per the last arc, when we find out Ichigo’s mask saved him from fatal injuries from Zaraki. Once Shinji dons the Hollow Mask, he puts the beat down on Grimmjow. Masked confirms Shinji was far superior to Grimmjow. He presses Grimmjow so much with a single Cero that Grimmjow feels the need to resort to releasing his Resurreccion, something he didn’t feel the need to do after taking two Getsuga Tenshous from a Hollow Mask Ichigo. For what it’s worth, Chad thinks Shinji and Hiyori can kill himself and Orihime. This is rather consistent considering Shikai Ichigo and Yammy can trade blows, and Yammy cracked Orihime’s shield.

Shikai Ichigo < base Shinji < Hollow Mask Shinji > base 1-arm Grimmjow
Yammy >= Orihime’s Shields < likely Shinji
Hollow Mask Shinji > Hollow Mask Ichigo

Ryuken​

Ryuken implies that his Quincy powers are superior to Uryu’s. While this obviously doesn’t mean Ryuken is superior to Letz Stil Uryu, I believe this is a rather good indicator that Ryuken’s power is superior to Uryu’s in terms of base to base as Quincies. Ryuken could possibly be referencing Letz Stil though, so I’ll include a possibly rating.

Uryu < likely Ryuken
Letz Stil Uryu ~< possibly Ryuken

Ulquiorra​

Ulquiorra states that there are only three people in the WotL that can combat him. This is likely referring to Kisuke, Yoruichi, and Ichigo. It’s obvious from the way Ulquiorra and Yammy speak of Kisuke and Yoruichi that they are on this list. Ulquiorra’s statement regarding being able to defeat Kisuke and Yoruichi while they are handicapped protecting Orihime, Chad, and Ichigo heavily implies that Kisuke and Yoruichi need to be without any handicaps in order to fight Ulquiorra. Masked supports that Ulquiorra could have fought Kisuke and Yoruichi in that environment with the upper hand. Ulquiorra also is able to block an attack from Kisuke, albeit the attack was geared towards Yammy, a character that Ulquiorra admits could easily defeat Yammy. So, Kisuke may not have been going all out against Yammy if he has no need, but regardless, Ulquiorra batting away an attack meant to put down Yammy and then one-tapping Yammy himself is all consistent with his other boasts of his strength. The reason I believe Ichigo is included within the list of three is due to his comment on how Ichigo’s power had fluctuated to being beyond his own. Grimmjow also seems to imply Ichigo gave them some trouble, and it would make sense for Aizen to inform Ulquiorra about Ichigo, as Aizen is essentially grooming Ichigo to be his perfect opponent. I don’t believe Ulquiorra could be referring to Isshin or Ryuken, because Isshin only regained his power during this early portion of the arc and Ryuken has successfully laid low for a long time. Considering, Ulquiorra comments he “hears” there are three people that can combat him, it makes no sense for his intel to warn him about Isshin or Ryuken, given again Isshin only just gets his power back this arc and Ryuken doesn’t get involved with anything related to Shinigami. Ulquiorra gets better scaling later when he fights a stronger Ichigo, so I won’t be giving Ulquiorra a tier yet, rather I’ll just use this to flesh out his justifications down the road. Espada's power makes Shawlong’s pale in comparison. Considering Shawlong was in his release form stating this, that would make any Espada superior to Shawlong’s Resurreccion.

Handicapped Yoruichi and Kisuke < Ulquiorra > Yammy
Ulquiorra > Res Shawlong

Yammy​

Yammy dog walks both Chad and Orihime. The start of Chad jobbing has begun. Yammy slams his palm into Ichigo’s Shikai. Yammy is able to slap his palm into Ichigo’s sword without it piercing his hand at all, and Yammy implies that until he draws his blade he wasn’t going all out either. Toshiro needs to use his Bankai to even fight Yammy. Yammy high key ensures that all relevant characters scale above the Sokyoku by the Arrancar Arc. Yammy also bullies Bankai Ichigo once White interferes. It is worth noting however that once Ichigo is nerfed, he truly is fodder. Yammy frightens Yoruichi when he uses his Cero. Masked seems to imply the Cero might spell instant death for Yoruichi. However, Yoruichi is stuck protecting Orihime and isn’t in a favorable position to defend against it. Espada's power makes Shawlong’s pale in comparison. Considering Shawlong was in his release form stating this, that would make any Espada superior to Shawlong’s Resurreccion.

Shikai Ichigo ~ Yammy ~ Bankai Toshiro
Nerfed Bankai Ichigo < Yammy
Yoruichi < possibly Yammy’s Cero
Yammy > Res Shawlong

Ichigo​

Ichigo annihilates Yammy with his Bankai. Ichigo harms Grimmjow with a Getsuga Tenshou; however, Ichigo remarks that it only scraped the top layer of his skin, Grimmjow implies he wasn’t going all out anyway, and boasts that even 100 Getsuga Tenshou couldn’t stop him in his Resurreccion. Partially Hollowfied Shikai Ichigo chokes the life out of Hollow Hiyori. Ichigo impales White after gaining a killer instinct. Ichigo’s hollow training made him stronger. He is able to no sell Hollow Hiyori’s kicks while in his Hollow Shikai form. Ichigo was able to overpower a 1 arm Grimmjow with his Hollow Mask. Masked affirms that during the Grimmjow vs Ichigo fight, Ichigo was always at a disadvantage until he used his Hollow Mask against 1 arm Grimmjow.

Pre-Hollow training Ichigo < Post-Hollow training Ichigo

Kisuke​

Kisuke treats Yammy like a child. In every sense of the word Kisuke is superior to Yammy, both the feats and the statements dictate such. Kisuke is also able to slash through Luppi and repel Wonderweiss. Masked confirms that Yammy was an easy opponent for Kisuke.

Kisuke > Yammy
Kisuke > Res Luppi
Kisuke ~ Wonderweiss

Yoruichi​

Yoruichi folds Yammy with her hands. Yoruichi is shown and stated superior to Yammy, and she states that if she used Shunko she wouldn’t have been hurt by Yammy’s hierro at all.

Yammy < Yoruichi ~ Yammy’s Hierro < Shunko Yoruichi

Shawlong​

Shawlong bodies Bankai Toshiro in base and cuts him up in his Resurreccion. Shawlong rather objectively is just toying with Gentei Reiin Bankai Toshiro. Masked confirms that Resurreccion Shawlong perception blitzed Toshiro. Renji implies that if Gentei Kaijo didn’t catch the Arrancar off guard, they may have been a match for the Gentei Kaijo. Taking this statement at its least generous would mean that Grimmjow’s Fraccion at their strongest may be equals to the Karakura Advance team members they fought.

Gentei Reiin Toshiro = ⅕ Toshiro < Shawlong < Res Shawlong
Bankai Toshiro ~ likely Res Shawlong

D Roy​

D Roy can kill Chad. Truly the greatest feat of all time. Masked confirms that D Roy is a blitz and one shot level above Chad.

D Roy > Chad

Rukia​

Rukia kills D Roy. Rukia truly is dunking on Chad.

Rukia > D Roy

Edrad​

Edrad is stronger than D Roy and can injure Ikkaku. Ikkaku and Edrad are pretty evenly matched base to base. Resurreccion Edrad bloodies Ikkaku. Masked confirms this to be true. Edrad with his Resurreccion beat down Ikkaku enough where Yumichika called in a funeral for the dude. Edrad and Ikkaku have a final clash. Edrad dies here but he still breaks Ikkaku’s Bankai and harms Ikkaku. Masked states Edrad is one of Grimmjow’s strongest Fraccion. This would put Edrad in the same leagues as Ilfordt and Shawlong.

Ikkaku ~ Edrad < Res Edrad ~< Bankai Ikkaku
Edrad ~ Ilfordt

Ikkaku​

Ikkaku could harm Edrad. Ikkaku and Edrad are pretty evenly matched base to base. With his Bankai, Ikkaku could harm Resurreccion Edrad. Ikkaku’s Bankai is also explicitly stated to only increase his AP, so it will qualify for a 5x AP amp (as it already does, Masked backs this up). Edrad and Ikkaku have a final clash. Ikkaku straight up kills Edrad with this clash but barely.

Ikkaku ~ Edrad < Res Edrad ~< Bankai Ikkaku

Grimmjow​

Grimmjow is stronger than Rukia. Grimmjow is also superior to Shawlong, similarly to how Yammy and Ulquiorra are. Grimmjow casually tosses around Shikai Ichigo. Grimmjow also bullies Bankai Ichigo. Grimmjow is harmed by a Getsuga Tenshou; however, Ichigo remarks that it only scraped the top layer of his skin, Grimmjow implies he wasn’t going all out anyway, and boasts that even 100 Getsuga Tenshou couldn’t stop him in his Resurreccion. So, Grimmjow is comfortably far superior to Bankai Ichigo. Ichigo beat down Grimmjow with his Hollow Mask, but Grimmjow was able to physically withstand the assault and Grimmjow was nerfed from having his arm lopped off. 1 arm Grimmjow beats down Bankai Ichigo and Rukia. When Grimmjow gets his power back he one shots Luppi. It is worth noting that Luppi was very likely off guard, and wasn’t expecting Grimmjow to fist him. Masked affirms that during the Grimmjow vs Ichigo fight, Ichigo was always at a disadvantage until he used his Hollow Mask against 1 arm Grimmjow.

Pre-Visored Training Bankai Ichigo < Post-Visored Training Bankai Ichigo < 1 arm Grimmjow < Grimmjow
Hollow Bankai Ichigo = 5x Bankai Ichigo >~ 1 arm Grimmjow < Grimmjow
Grimmjow > surprised Luppi

Ilfordt​

Base Ilfordt is slapping up Gentei Reiin Bankai Renji. Ilfordt really foreshadowing what his older brother is going to do to Renji. Resurreccion Ilfordt bodies Ururu, Jinta, and Renji. Renji implies that if Gentei Kaijo didn’t catch the Arrancar off guard, they may have been a match for the Gentei Kaijo. Taking this statement at its least generous would mean that Grimmjow’s Fraccion at their strongest may be equals to the Karakura Advance team members they fought.

Gentei Reiin Bankai Renji = ⅕ Bankai Renji < Ilfordt < Res Ilfordt
Bankai Renji ~ likely Res Ilfordt

Ururu​

Ururu bodying Ilfordt. Another common Renji L, a small child beating an opponent you can’t.

Ururu > Ilfordt

Nakeem​

Nakeem. Nakeem off screened Gentei Reiin Matsumoto, for the longest time I only referred to Nakeem as Fatso. Renji implies that if Gentei Kaijo didn’t catch the Arrancar off guard, they may have been a match for the Gentei Kaijo. Taking this statement at its least generous would mean that Grimmjow’s Fraccion at their strongest may be equals to the Karakura Advance team members they fought.

Gentei Reiin Rangiku = ⅕ Rangiku < Nakeem
Rangiku ~ likely Nakeem

Rangiku​

Rangiku with the Gentei Kaijo defeats Nakeem. Renji implies that if Gentei Kaijo didn’t catch the Arrancar off guard, they may have been a match for the Gentei Kaijo. Taking this statement at its least generous would mean that Grimmjow’s Fraccion at their strongest may be equals to the Karakura Advance team members they fought.

Surprised Nakeem < Rangiku ~ likely Nakeem

Renji​

Renji with the Gentei Kaijo defeats Ilfordt. Renji implies that if Gentei Kaijo didn’t catch the Arrancar off guard, they may have been a match for the Gentei Kaijo. Taking this statement at its least generous would mean that Grimmjow’s Fraccion at their strongest may be equals to the Karakura Advance team members they fought.

Surprised Res Ilfordt < Bankai Renji ~ likely Res Ilfordt

Toshiro​

Toshiro with the Gentei Kaijo defeats Shawlong. Renji implies that if Gentei Kaijo didn’t catch the Arrancar off guard, they may have been a match for the Gentei Kaijo. Taking this statement at its least generous would mean that Grimmjow’s Fraccion at their strongest may be equals to the Karakura Advance team members they fought. Bankai Toshiro can block one of Resurreccion Luppi’s tentacles. His Sennen Hyoro is also able to temporarily defeat Resurreccion Luppi. Toshiro low key implies that Sennen Hyoro is stronger than Luppi’s combined 8 tentacles too.

Surprised Res Shawlong < Bankai Toshiro ~ likely Res Shawlong
Bankai Toshiro < Res Luppi < Sennen Hyoro
Res Luppi’s combined 8 tentacles = 8x Res Luppi < likely Sennen Hyoro

Tosen​

Tosen cuts off Grimmjow’s arm. Albeit, Grimmjow is likely off guard.

Tosen > surprised Grimmjow

Hiyori​

Hiyori can kill Chad and Orihime. Truly super impressive. With her Hollow Mask Hiyori beat the dog lights out of Shikai Ichigo.

Hiyori < Hollow Hiyori (5x) > Shikai Ichigo

White​

White and Ichigo clash evenly in Shikai. White and Ichigo clash evenly in Bankai, White has a slight advantage later in the fight. Masked also confirms that White and Ichigo are practically equals. While controlling Ichigo’s body in his “lizard” Hollow form, he harmed Kensei and Love, and forced Love to Hollowfy.

Shikai White = Shikai Ichigo < Bankai Ichigo =< Bankai White
Love and Kensei ~< Lizard Hollow possessed Ichigo
Lizard Hollow possessed Ichigo ~ likely Hollow Love

Lisa​

Lisa is able to fight partial Hollow Shikai and Bankai Ichigo.

Partial Hollow Shikai Ichigo < Partial Hollow Bankai Ichigo ~ Lisa

Kensei​

Kensei blows apart Partial Hollow Bankai Ichigo.

Kensei > Partial Hollow Bankai Ichigo

Chad​

Renji trains Chad to the point of being able to combat him. We see eventually that Chad is able to harm Gentei Reiin Bankai Renji and wins Ichigo’s respect.

Gentei Reiin Bankai Renji = ⅕ Bankai Renji ~ Chad

Luppi​

Base Luppi beat Yumichika. Wow, crazy. Luppi with his Resurreccion toys with the Karakura Advance team. Luppi can also amp his striking strength 8x when he combines all his tentacles into one attack. Luppi is superior to Shawlong.

Res Shawlong < Luppi < Res Luppi < Res Luppi’s 8 tentacles combined = 8x Res Luppi

Orihime​

Orihime got stronger by training with Rukia. This could potentially make Orihime equal to Rukia.

Rukia ~ likely Orihime

Yumichika​

Masked states that Yumichika and Ikkaku were strong enough to rival Luppi. We know Ikkaku by himself is just objectively weaker than Luppi, since Ikkaku was rivaling Edrad, and the Fraccion (like Edrad) are stated to be inherently weaker than the Espada (like Luppi). And the Fraccion are rather significantly weaker than the Espada, so for Yumichika and Ikkaku to rival Luppi, Yumichika would have to significantly scale in some regards, as Ikkaku alone would get annihilated if it wasn’t the case. To me this indicates some level of relativity between Yumichika and Ikkaku.

Yumichika + Ikkaku ~ casual Luppi
Ikkaku ~ Edrad < Luppi
Ikkaku ~ likely Yumichika

Conclusion
That's all folks, here is a rough scaling web that is color coded to match what values characters are scaling to or above. Once we near conclusions, I'll update this blog with what the new justifications would look like on profiles.

Agree: Clover, Tracer (possibly for Orihime, only Edrad and Ilfordt scale to Gentei Kaijo), KingTempest, Lephyr (likely for Orihime)
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
LordTracer said:
Luppi should be stronger cause he’s cute
Click to expand...
be5ee4d60f8a9e91df3796e979e5bd32.jpg
 
LordTracer said:
Luppi should be stronger cause he’s cute

I agree with pretty much everything here. I think Orihime scaling to Rukia is a bit iffy, but I suppose it could be fine as a possibly rating.
Click to expand...
I also disagree with Orihime scaling to Rukia, if that page in the OP is the only basis for it.

Will go through the rest soon but not anticipating any real issues.
 
Yeah Orihime scaling to Rukia might need more of a basis to it. Especially since Orihime only says she got a little stronger
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Yeah Orihime scaling to Rukia might need more of a basis to it. Especially since Orihime only says she got a little stronger
Click to expand...
Yeah I included it cuz we currently accept that Rukia training Orihime = Rukia ~ Orihime, but I'm fine removing that ngl or moving it to a possibly.
 
It should be a possibly rating at best since we have no idea if Rukia was holding back to any notable level or not in her training with Orihime.

It's just too speculative to assume she was going all out against Orihime concretely tbh.
 
Still it's not like any of em are trying to kill each other, so I'm prolly more in favor of a possibly/likely rating nonetheless.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Still it's not like any of em are trying to kill each other, so I'm prolly more in favor of a possibly/likely rating nonetheless.
Click to expand...
I mean if neither are trying to kill each other, and they are the same, then shouldn't they be the same bloodlusted?
 
That_moron said:
Its an assumption to think they are holding back to different degrees.
Click to expand...
It's a pure assumption either way. It's all equal interp, hence why I said possibly/likely and not concrete ratings. Cuz not one interp is better than the other
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Still it's not like any of em are trying to kill each other, so I'm prolly more in favor of a possibly/likely rating nonetheless.
Click to expand...
A-1 (Trained with Rukia for a month and became stronger than before. [insert other justification], possibly A-2 (May be comparable to Rukia due to their training together, although it is unclear how much power Rukia was using)
Click to expand...
Maybe something like this could work for Orihime’s justification?
That_moron said:
images
Click to expand...
The Arrancar femboy is cute asf and I will not change my stance on that
 
So I wanna clarify something. We have the Bankai multiplier as x5 based on the limiter placed for the captains when they're sent to the human world, but is there enough evidence to assume that applies for Bankai as well?
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
We have the Bankai multiplier as x5 based on the limiter placed for the captains when they're sent to the human world, but is there enough evidence to assume that applies for Bankai as well?
Click to expand...
No.

We have Bankai as a 5x multiplier based on the Yoruichi statement, but we will only apply it to a single stat. Gentei Kaijo and Bankai have nothing to do with each other.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
So I wanna clarify something. We have the Bankai multiplier as x5 based on the limiter placed for the captains when they're sent to the human world, but is there enough evidence to assume that applies for Bankai as well?
Click to expand...
You're thinking of something else. The multiplier from Gentei Kaijo and actual base forms is 5x due to a statement that being under Gentei Kaijo limits your power to 20% your normal capacity
 
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