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Anti-Monitor Revision

Compared to the initial 2-A Anti-Matter wave, Anti-Monitor with just the expanding AMverse was very underwhelming against the Heroes and his own Shadow Demons.
 
Thelastmlg said:
Just something i thought rn.

The monitor being empowered by infinite positive matter is a high 3-A and infinite stamina feat.

However, is he "empowered by positive matter from infinite universes" or is he "empowered by infinite positive matter universes"?

The former is high 3-A because infinite matter unless DC's positive matter works differently, but the latter would be 2-A because "positive matter universes" would just be the actual universes, unlike the anti-monitor's "anti-matter universe".

Actually wait, wouldn't it be infinite above baseline low 2-C, since you are supposed to destroy infinite universes at once for 2-A or something, kinda like 4-A requires one blast because distance?
Click to expand...
Thoughts on this?
 
Thank you to everybody helping out, and no problem Planck69.
 
Firestorm's suggestion is fine

For your question lastmlg, the Monitor draws power from positive matter universes. Don't know if he draws infinite power from each one though.
 
I also think that Firestorm's suggestion seems fine to apply.

Thank you to everybody who helped out to evaluate this.

Should I only unlock the Anti-Monitor page, or The World Forger, The Monitor, Perpetua, and The Spectre as well?
 
I think that he is scaled from fighting the Anti-Monitor while being powered-up by the other superheroes, but may misremember.
 
Yes, but we cannot use retroactive continuity. The Thunderbolt was established as much stronger than the Spectre first 13 years afterwards. Back then it wasn't as powerful.

Also, The Anti-Monitor was recently retconned as being much stronger than 5-dimensional imps, who in turn had been established as much stronger than The Spectre in other stories, so we would end up with nonsensical contradictory scaling as a result.
 
Antvasima said:
Yes, but we cannot use retroactive continuity. The Thunderbolt was established as much stronger than the Spectre first 13 years afterwards. Back then it wasn't as powerful.
Click to expand...
I meant at that time, and yes I do know thunderbolt was shown massively stronger than spectre afterwards, the only exception i k ow is the jsa spirit of Vengeance issue where spectre redirects his attacks.
Antvasima said:
Also, The Anti-Monitor was recently retconned as being much stronger than 5-dimensional imps, who in turn had been established as much stronger than The Spectre in other stories, so we would end up with nonsensical contradictory scaling as a result.
Click to expand...
Not saying spectre is consistently above thunderbolt, just saying on that era spectre was stronger than thunderbolt.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Firestorm's suggestion is fine

For your question lastmlg, the Monitor draws power from positive matter universes. Don't know if he draws infinite power from each one though.
Click to expand...
What mean is, does he draw the power from the positive matter or from the universes themselves
 
So if I understand.

COIE Anti-Monitor: At least 2-C, higher with Expanding Antimatter Universe and absorbing energy, 2-A With Anti-Matter Wave 2-A. 2-A absorbing expanded Anti-Matter Universe and 50 Heroes

Rebirth Key/In-Multiverse Brothers three: At least 2-C

This should apply to Barbatos and the Omega Titans as well.
 
Last edited:
Antvasima said:
Yes, but we cannot use retroactive continuity. The Thunderbolt was established as much stronger than the Spectre first 13 years afterwards. Back then it wasn't as powerful.

Also, The Anti-Monitor was recently retconned as being much stronger than 5-dimensional imps, who in turn had been established as much stronger than The Spectre in other stories, so we would end up with nonsensical contradictory scaling as a result.
Click to expand...
Which issue retcons Anti-Monitor power above 5-D imps?
 
Antvasima said:
Also, The Anti-Monitor was recently retconned as being much stronger than 5-dimensional imps, who in turn had been established as much stronger than The Spectre in other stories.
Click to expand...
Tbf in most Post Crisis stories, Imps have only shown to be superior to a bounded Spectre because in one instance The Spectre while unbounded effortlessly defeated Thunderbolt and unintentionally depowered Mxyzptlk when he destroyed magic.
So IMO, saying Unbound Spectre>Imps>=bounded Spectre makes sense from portrayal
 
San-Kakarot said:
My question is from which issue does he draw that conclusion?
Click to expand...
Okay, got it. I don't recall the specific issue, but AM's brother World Forger speaks at one point about "assigning" a 5D Imp, showing their superiority.

Likewise, AM being from the 6th Dimension also places him above Mxy. Mxy says only Perpetua and her sons are capable of reaching the 6th Dimension, and he wasn't until the Source Wall came down.
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
Tbf in most Post Crisis stories, Imps have only shown to be superior to a bounded Spectre because in one instance The Spectre while unbounded effortlessly defeated Thunderbolt and unintentionally depowered Mxyzptlk when he destroyed magic.
So IMO, saying Unbound Spectre>Imps>=bounded Spectre makes sense from portrayal
Click to expand...
I suppose that could make sense, yes. However, it may also just be the writers being inconsistent. It seems like an uncertain case.
 
Elizio33 said:
So if I understand.

COIE Anti-Monitor: At least 2-C, higher with Expanding Antimatter Universe and absorbing energy, 2-A With Anti-Matter Wave 2-A. 2-A absorbing expanded Anti-Matter Universe and 50 Heroes

Rebirth Key/In-Multiverse Brothers three: At least 2-C

This should apply to Barbatos and the Omega Titans as well.
Click to expand...
Anyway, do the other knowledgeable members here have any comments about this?
 
That looks fine to me, although I think it should be separated into two keys. Something like:

At least 2-C, higher with Expanding Antimatter Universe and absorbing energy, 2-A with Antimatter Wave | 2-A

CoIE | Dawn of Time
 
What should we do with the Ultra-Monitor? Should he scale to the in-multiverse Brothers three or remain Low 1-C?
 
LordTracer said:
In that case, how about ‘At least 2-C, possibly Low 1-C?’
Click to expand...
Maybe another key since she was weaker until the end of JL #34.

When Perpetua was released, Mar Novu was concerned about her powers which were growing days by days since faith in doom was spreading and Lex had unlocked six of the Hidden Forces. Her sons merged together to form the Ultra-Monitor in one last attempt to seal Perpetua before Lex succeed to unlock the seventh force, but he failed to do seal her and the seventh force was unlocked and Perpetua become much more powerful.

So, a third key should be added.
 
Last edited:
Also, should I ask Matthew to help us out with this, or is there a risk that he will start any drama?
 
I think her keys should be like this:

At least 2-C | Low 1-C | 1-A

Key: Pre-Seventh Force Diminished State | Post-Seventh Force Diminished State | True State
 
Anyway, I'm agree for the new stats of Coie Anti-Monitor and the Rebirth Key.
 
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