Alien X Downgrade Rebuttal (Updating Alien X to 2B or 2A again)

[Midtop]

Ah yes, putting words in my mouth.

I never once said my interpretation is the end all be all. Im saying my interpretation is the most reasonable because it requires far little leaps in logic, while yours does not meet the burden of proof on how fusion, according to you, works in Ben 10. You want to argue fusion being weaker in Ben 10? Prove it. And had you done that, I wouldnt be arguing against it. But, since you haven't and more than likely can't prove it, im sticking with my interpretation.

I just went back and realized I missed one of your arguments, so rather than ignoring it like some people ima go back and address it right now.

I said "Like you're making it out to be '' at the end of the sentence so it seems like you're texas sharpshooting as well (Basically cherry picking information) so why didn't you mention that part right there as well. I purposely selected my words so you don't try and say stuff like this, anying I said "Like you're making it out to be '' meaning I thought based on what you said that was the case which is subjective. That is all I thought you said, so correct me if I'm wrong. Also of all in that big ass paragraph, THAT is the thing you address lmfaooo, bruh stop kidding me.
Why is your interpretation the most reasonable, why aren't their little leaps in logic? Can elaborate on both rather than saying it's common sense like it's meant to be a sound argument lmao. Why is your interpretation more likely?
Also your interpretation of fusions in Ben 10 is that you add the aliens powers right making a stronger more powerful alien. So all I have to do is prove that at least 1 fusion is fodder asf, and your entire argument and premise falls apart. Also can you please prove that fusions get stronger, where is your substantiation or evidence to suggest this.
I've never argued that fusions in Ben 10 are weaker, I argued that fusions within Ben 10 aren't inherently weaker and stronger so you should go by what's shown and feats, like I said simple. Stop trying to reverse the burden of proof upon me especially when you never fulfilled it/actively fulfilling it or can't fulfill it.

Now ima explain exactly why my interpretation is better than your interpretation in this case. My interpretation is that fusions don't inherently get weaker or stronger which makes 0 baseless assumption or assumptions in general as it was never stated which of the 2 so we have to go based on feats, statements and what is shown just like any other character. Your interpretation however is that fusions always get stronger no matter what, they aren't weaker at all and adds the 2 aliens strength. First off this interpretation takes 2 assumptions, the first assumption is that they automatically get stronger and aren't weaker, you are baselessly assuming that and I haven't seen 2 things 1. Proof and 2. A sound argument from you for why this is the case. Another assumption your interpretation takes on is the FACT that the fusions HAVE to add the aliens power and have to get a stronger fusion than the both of them (Seen that you're saying 1+1=2 and all that other shit). So via occam's razor which is a law in debate that says whatever is the simplest explanation and the least amount of assumptions then it is most often the correct. So who interpretation is really more valid or likely, huh? For the record since there is no evidence for your claim, we can't assume your claim to be true sooo... However my claim has no need for evidence and we can assume it to be true unless it is stated the are stronger or weaker 100% all the time, otherwise my claim holds up and still takes 0 assumptions less than yours like I showed you in this big ass paragraph

Last point is that I'm going to dismiss all of your baseless claims (Which is pretty much all the claims you have made) via hitchens razor which is a law in debates that says whatever you assert without evidence it can be dismissed with the same amount of evidence that which you asserted it with (Which is 0) or "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence". @ProfessorKukui4Life

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Except you were clearly referring to him when you braught up the Fusion thing even if you never said the word "Atomic-X" you were still trying to imply by your words that Atomic x > Alien x which is wrong.

And again, I was not. When I brought up fusion, I brought up FUSION. As a whole. I don't care if Atomic X is included in that or not, stop with this shitty desperate attempt at trying to paint my words being aimed at a specific notion when that isn't the case at all.

Fusions in Ben 10, in general, do not work like the OP was trying to paint it as.

Which is not

It is.

Imagine using this as an excuse lmao

Imagine thinking this is evidence in the first place, when this site has reiterated over dozens and dozens of times that it isn't. But I guess listening is something some here need to work on.

there is no proof that the Creator lied and answered this question just to satisfy his fans or anything like that, It literally can still be used as a supporting evidence when the show 100% support it

Thats not how this works here. If you want to use a social media comment as proof of anything here, YOU need to be the one to prove the answer is serious and legitimate in the first place. Burden of Proof. We have rules for a reason, and if you don't like it, better change them.

Which you can't do since the show doesn't support it.

no amount of this headcanon arguments are gonna chnage anything.

No amount of shifting the burden of proof and needing to prove what you claim, when you can't, will change anything.

Again, either get the rules changed, or drop the subject entirely. Its not flying here.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

MoA in the social media comment said "Yes" to Atomic x being weaker than Alien X which is posted by OP in the thread and it is considered a "A shitty social media comment" then MoA comments should be banned from vsbattle since they are not consistent I found a solution to this a Note should be added on main Ben 10 page stating: Using these as proof isn't allowed. This would be a smart move since this would allow us to not have these types of CRT's again, These "Atomic X being weaker types of content revisions" always seems to run in circles and now finally it's time to stop this.

I already suggested this earlier in the thread. It's been explained time and time again here that social media comments are not acceptable evidence under any circumstance, and we even have a rule outlined on our site detailing this. Especially when the people asking these questions are just rabid fans asking leading questions to desperately extract specific information.

But apparently, some here refuse to listen and like to pretend this wasn't explained in every other Ben 10 thread (or rather every AX thread that pops up) when people have tried using this again, and again, and again, and again.

 

[Midtop]

And again, I was not. When I brought up fusion, I brought up FUSION. As a whole. I don't care if Atomic X is included in that or not, stop with this shitty desperate attempt at trying to paint my words being aimed at a specific notion when that isn't the case at all.

Fusions in Ben 10, in general, do not work like the OP was trying to paint it as.

So you are including Atomic X, why not just say that from the start, and why say Gohan was strawmanning when you just now acknowledged that Atomic X just maybe, just MAYBE be included in your statements.

Thats not how this works here. If you want to use a social media comment as proof of anything here, YOU need to be the one to prove the answer is serious and legitimate in the first place. Burden of Proof. We have rules for a reason, and if you don't like it, better change them.

Which you can't do since the show doesn't support it.

Why are you trying to invalidate the source rather than the content within it? Why does it matter where the comment was posted? When was it ever stated on vsbw that you have to prove a comment is legitimate, if anything wouldn't you have to prove it isn't legitimate since you're the one claiming it isn't so you would them be trying to reverse to burden of proof. Can I see said rules?
If anything the show doesn't support your interpretation cause I haven't gotten any support of your interpretation from you. @ProfessorKukui4Life

 

[Midtop]

I already suggested this earlier in the thread. It's been explained time and time again here that social media comments are not acceptable evidence under any circumstance, and we even have a rule outlined on our site detailing this. Especially when the people asking these questions are just rabid fans asking leading questions to desperately extract specific information.

But apparently, some here refuse to listen and like to pretend this wasn't explained in every other Ben 10 thread (or rather every AX thread that pops up) when people have tried using this again, and again, and again, and again.

Finally, you said it. "Social media comments aren't acceptable evidence under any circumstance" that is a MASSIVE genetic fallacy, wanna try again?
Why do the fans being "rapid" matter at all, the answer is what the answer is right?

Why do you have to keep getting denied and shut down again and again and again?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay first of all, keep all of your points in one response. There's absolutely 0 reason you need to send me paragraphs and essays spread across 4 different replies here. No offense, but its annoying to deal with.

Anyway, seeing as this is going in circles, im only going to respond to like 2 things from these 4 replies and leave it at that.

Okay sure they were made from glithes, are you now trying to say that it affects the fusions somehow (As in changing the fusion and making it differ from the biomnitrix, remember the fusion themselves)? If that is your assertion can you please provide evidence or substantiation within the Ben 10 verse. Why does the method the fusion is made even matter in the first place, the fusions are still the same right?

Uh, no, they are not the same? Do you even hear what your asking me to prove? Your sitting here with a straight face and asking me how a MALFUNCTION is different from something that isn't one. I don't even need to explain why that is, unless you for whatever reason do not know what a Malfunction is.

The biomnitrix creates proper fusions because it was designed to. The original omnitrix did not possess that capability, it was not built to do the former. That in and of itself already separates the 2 cases of how the fusion aliens are made. One does the job as it is supposed to, the other can only do it when having its programming specifically altered and messed with. I don't need any evidence or in-canon explanation to explain why one is an obvious false equivalence to the other.

You are the one that needs evidence to prove that they are the same. Your burden of proof.

Are you sure the original omnitrix wasn't designed to fuse aliens, like can you provide evidence for this claim right here, cause it is entirely in the realm of possibility that it was a feature of the omnitrix and Ben just happened to come across it in a glitched way.

Seeing as how Ben with the original omnitrix could only accomplish fusing aliens together by literally physically messing with it's programming

And this is something that the original omnitrix never once showed or even gave any implication of having prior to Ben doing that

And is something the OG Omnitrix never did after having its programming restored

And is something that not even an upgraded Omnitrix, like the variant in Alien Force and Ultimate Alien, possessed either

The obvious and most logical answer is that it is something the OG Omnitrix never had to begin with, and was made by this glitch Ben caused. To think otherwise requires much larger leaps in logic and takes far more speculation to think and far more required evidence to prove when there isn't any to sustain that claim.

I agree they aren't automatically weaker but I think you're making the assumption that they are automatically relative or stronger which is built on head canon.

Its not head canon. Its common sense and logic. I don't need a reason to think they are stronger when the event in question already provides the reasoning for it.

We need a reason to think otherwise, that they would be weaker, and there isn't any. Meaning? We take them as being stronger than their individual parts, which is basic logic and the entire basis of what ADDING something to something else is.

Like I said the best way is to go by feats rather than your baseless assumption.

No, mine is a reasonable assumption. There is a difference. One is built on common sense and what is reasonable, the other isn't.

And as for the rule on our stance with social media comments, it is on our Editing Rules Page. And to save time, here's what it says for them:

• Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements from them that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable.
• When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if an author says that a character from his work is incapable of shattering planets, even though it has destroyed galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the latter, rather than the former. The statement need to be consistent with what has been revealed within the fictional franchise itself. Otherwise, it will be considered invalid.
• Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate.

 

[Greenshifter]

All right guys, chill out I don't think we need the walls.

In short we have no precedent for DNA fusion on-site, as such it should be looked at a case-by-case basis, which means that burden of proof is on both parties. Which basically comes down to looking at the feats of every alien individually, as Rusty said earlier. One fair assumption I think can be made is that the fusion’s power will be somewhere between the 2 fusees. I think most people can agree on that, but I don’t think we can say more than that without looking at the actual feats each fusion has.

Now Ben 10 pages are outdated and fusions need to be updated, mostly because Future Aliens in general need to be revised. I'll take care of that eventually.

WoG can be used, it's just case-by-case on who said it, when they said it and why they said it. The amount of supporting evidence needed from within the show tends to be pretty light from my experience but one can definitely build a case to support the WoG if necessary (but I'm not gonna do that here cause this has gone on for long enough and the way the fusions are currently treated is mostly fine so it'd be a waste of time anyways).

I think the smartest move to do if a thread like this happens again (aka baseless stuff gets brought up), is to just kindly refer to this thread or the original downgrade thread and close it I guess.

Speaking of closing, this one should probably be closed as well, Kukui and Midtop if you guys wanna keep discussing this then a more private conversation seems to be more appropriate.

 

[Midtop]

Uh, no, they are not the same? Do you even hear what your asking me to prove? Your sitting here with a straight face and asking me how a MALFUNCTION is different from something that isn't one. I don't even need to explain why that is, unless you for whatever reason do not know what a Malfunction is.

The biomnitrix creates proper fusions because it was designed to. The original omnitrix did not possess that capability, it was not built to do the former. That in and of itself already separates the 2 cases of how the fusion aliens are made. One does the job as it is supposed to, the other can only do it when having its programming specifically altered and messed with. I don't need any evidence or in-canon explanation to explain why one is an obvious false equivalence to the other.

You are the one that needs evidence to prove that they are the same. Your burden of proof.

Yea prove it, I don't see what the problem is. Sure the OG Ben 10 got fusions by a malfunction within the omnitrix but why would this change the fusions and how it works themselves compared to the biomnitrix? Can you answer this, also yes you do need to explain why and yes you do need proof. So can you stop appealing to absurdity that I would ask these "questions" and actually explain and give me proof for why they would be different, the only thing that is different is how they turn into them. Ben 10 turned into them via a malfunction and Ben 10K designed a device for it but that doesn't inherently mean the fusions themselves are different which is what I'm asking for proof for.

Can you prove the omnitrix can't create proper fusions? Because to me it looks like it is fully capable of doing it, it's just the omnitrix gave him ****** combinations of aliens that conflict but that doesn't mean that the omnitrix is incapable of creating a fusion. In creating the fusion perfectly, just like how it was meant to, I can give you another example which is Diamond Matter. What's wrong with this fusion, looks proper to me. So can I get some proof of that claim? Just because it wasn't specifically for fusions doesn't mean the fusions now work differently for the biomnitrix, also can you please prove that the omnitrix wasn't built with some intention of fusion aliens please, since you're the one making the claim. I don't get why the omnitrix having it's program altered means that the fusions work differently between the biomnitrix and the omnitrix fusions/ You do need evidence, you just can't provide it so I can dismiss the claim via hitchens razor and occam's razor is in my favor. I made 0 assumptions. You made the assumption that they are different due to a malfunction in the omnitrix.

When did I ever say they were the same, I'm the one asking for proof they are different therefore why are we then assuming they are different. You were the one who made the first assertion therefore it's your proof to fulfil not mine, I'm simply trying to disprove.

Okay first of all, keep all of your points in one response. There's absolutely 0 reason you need to send me paragraphs and essays spread across 4 different replies here. No offense, but its annoying to deal with.

Anyway, seeing as this is going in circles, im only going to respond to like 2 things from these 4 replies and leave it at that.

Ight, I'll try and keep all of my points in one response but if I see you replying to someone else and I feel as if you aren't making sense, I'm going to reply with you tagged in the reply.

Anyway, seeing as you are saying it's going in circles (Even though it isn't, I'm literally smacking and you are avoiding questions from me I want answered so I chase you down so you can answer them), i'm going to assume you dropped all points brought up and you concede to all of them via burden of rejoinder and you seem to have no problem with me dismissing your claims via hitchens razor since you never responded to me saying it and/or give me some proof of the claims. I can also take the concession and you passively agreeing to all my claims hence no response for those claims. Your concessions is happily accepted.

Seeing as how Ben with the original omnitrix could only accomplish fusing aliens together by literally physically messing with it's programming

And this is something that the original omnitrix never once showed or even gave any implication of having prior to Ben doing that

And is something the OG Omnitrix never did after having its programming restored

And is something that not even an upgraded Omnitrix, like the variant in Alien Force and Ultimate Alien, possessed either

The obvious and most logical answer is that it is something the OG Omnitrix never had to begin with, and was made by this glitch Ben caused. To think otherwise requires much larger leaps in logic and takes far more speculation to think and far more required evidence to prove when there isn't any to sustain that claim.

Thank you for answering this question and ignoring the herd of others, I can accept this. All I did was ask a question after all.

Its not head canon. Its common sense and logic. I don't need a reason to think they are stronger when the event in question already provides the reasoning for it.

We need a reason to think otherwise, that they would be weaker, and there isn't any. Meaning? We take them as being stronger than their individual parts, which is basic logic and the entire basis of what ADDING something to something else is.

Stop going in circles, I have already explained why it is head canon, I've already explained why "Common sense and logic" isn't an argument so why are you going right back to saying it is when I already shut that down and give an explanation why that is the case. At least tackle the arguments that I have for why this is the case rather than repeating the same shit, I already proved was an error in logic or illogical. So if you have evidence or nah, otherwise you can hippity hoppity to the next thread with this bullshit lmao.

You simply aren't getting it, we don't have reason to think what you are asserting, I never asserted that they would be weaker. I asserted that they wouldn't INHERENTLY be weaker or stronger because it isn't really stated thus we should base it off of feats, statements and what is shown inverse to determine their strength like any other character on this wiki. You made the assertion that in Ben 10 fusions add the 2 aliens that are fused strength and I'm asking you to provide evidence for that. I already dismissed that claim via Hitchens' razor (What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence) AND I provided evidence for why Occam's Razor would be in my favor in this case which you also completely ignored and disregarded just to repeat the same bullshit that was debunked. Stop going in circles, stop using head canon, stop saying it's common sense therefore it's true, stop ignoring my arguments, can you address all my arguments, please do. Anyway I literally already made you concede, and since you don't wanna respond to all of my arguments and you're repeating the same shit that I already debunked and not tackling my debunks against what you are saying, I can just claim my win via Burden of Rejoinder, simple. This debate is over, the thread should be closed and you're a-(Ima save it).

No, mine is a reasonable assumption. There is a difference. One is built on common sense and what is reasonable, the other isn't.

And as for the rule on our stance with social media comments, it is on our Editing Rules Page. And to save time, here's what it says for them:

• Regarding direct information from the author/creator of a character: We do not use statements from them that are phrased in an uncertain, uncaring, and/or unspecific manner, such as "Could be", "Maybe", "Probably", "Possibly" etcetera. Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded, whereas more elaborate explanations in serious interviews are usually considered more reliable.
• When a statement from a character, guidebook, or even word of god contradicts what occurs in the series, they won't be used. For example, if an author says that a character from his work is incapable of shattering planets, even though it has destroyed galaxies on-screen, we will always go with the latter, rather than the former. The statement need to be consistent with what has been revealed within the fictional franchise itself. Otherwise, it will be considered invalid.
• Author statements will only be accepted when they clarify what has been shown or implied in the series itself, and will be rejected when they contradict what has been shown to the audience. Statements that technically do not contradict anything shown in the series will still be rejected if there is no evidence that they are accurate.

Mine is better and mine isn't even an assumption, mine is WAY more reasonable than ours. Your assumption is based on literally nothing, it has no bases (And no "Common sense and logic" isn't a ******* basis lmao). I already proved why mine has a basis and why my statement is much better than ours. At least you conceded to your statement being an assumption (Even tho it you made multiple), well guess what buddy mine isn't.

That is NOT what I asked for, stop ratting. I literally asked someone on the wiki if that was a rule and they told me that you just made it up, and they told me how you made a thread about it just for it to be said that it should be looked at case by case. Even in the link of the rule page you said the claim "All social media comments aren't acceptable and should be disregarded" literally nowhere what you said lol. It's so dishonest it isn't even funny, tell me where in the entire Editing Rules Page it says you should disregard all "Social media comments" from authors and none of them are acceptable, show me. Exactly, you can't because it doesn't exist and you know that, you just tried to lie and you tried to pass it off like I wouldn't see it or press you on it. I'm actually baffled right now, that you just made it up and it doesn't exist lmao. The only thing I can see you even get slightly confused on is the statement "Brief or vague answers to fan-questions via social media are also generally disregarded" and it doesn't even say what you were trying to claim at all. What it says is that BRIEF OR VAGUE answers to a fan question is usually disregarded, NOT you should disregard all social media questions and even then it says GENERALLY disregarded meaning you would still have to have reason to disregard it and not automatically disregard it because it isn't always cap. I deadass have no idea where you got that from. And what keeps getting me (Sorry to go back to this) but you know that isn't what it says but you just don't wanna concede it or drop it the point (Presumably out of pride).

Okay I got my anger and frustration out, I'm coolin now. But I'm pretty sure we are done here, we could probably close the thread now, I got the concessions and passive agreements I was looking for already. @ProfessorKukui4Life

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Bruh still dis

 

[Midtop]

All right guys, chill out I don't think we need the walls.

In short we have no precedent for DNA fusion on-site, as such it should be looked at a case-by-case basis, which means that burden of proof is on both parties. Which basically comes down to looking at the feats of every alien individually, as Rusty said earlier. One fair assumption I think can be made is that the fusion’s power will be somewhere between the 2 fusees. I think most people can agree on that, but I don’t think we can say more than that without looking at the actual feats each fusion has.

Now Ben 10 pages are outdated and fusions need to be updated, mostly because Future Aliens in general need to be revised. I'll take care of that eventually.

WoG can be used, it's just case-by-case on who said it, when they said it and why they said it. The amount of supporting evidence needed from within the show tends to be pretty light from my experience but one can definitely build a case to support the WoG if necessary (but I'm not gonna do that here cause this has gone on for long enough and the way the fusions are currently treated is mostly fine so it'd be a waste of time anyways).

I think the smartest move to do if a thread like this happens again (aka baseless stuff gets brought up), is to just kindly refer to this thread or the original downgrade thread and close it I guess.

Speaking of closing, this one should probably be closed as well, Kukui and Midtop if you guys wanna keep discussing this then a more private conversation seems to be more appropriate.

Nah I'm done here, and I'm okay with it being closed.

 

[Midtop]

All right guys, chill out I don't think we need the walls.

In short we have no precedent for DNA fusion on-site, as such it should be looked at a case-by-case basis, which means that burden of proof is on both parties. Which basically comes down to looking at the feats of every alien individually, as Rusty said earlier. One fair assumption I think can be made is that the fusion’s power will be somewhere between the 2 fusees. I think most people can agree on that, but I don’t think we can say more than that without looking at the actual feats each fusion has.

Now Ben 10 pages are outdated and fusions need to be updated, mostly because Future Aliens in general need to be revised. I'll take care of that eventually.

WoG can be used, it's just case-by-case on who said it, when they said it and why they said it. The amount of supporting evidence needed from within the show tends to be pretty light from my experience but one can definitely build a case to support the WoG if necessary (but I'm not gonna do that here cause this has gone on for long enough and the way the fusions are currently treated is mostly fine so it'd be a waste of time anyways).

I think the smartest move to do if a thread like this happens again (aka baseless stuff gets brought up), is to just kindly refer to this thread or the original downgrade thread and close it I guess.

Speaking of closing, this one should probably be closed as well, Kukui and Midtop if you guys wanna keep discussing this then a more private conversation seems to be more appropriate.

Also my argument was that we should look at feats and that fusions aren't inherently stronger or weaker. I didn't have a burden cause I was the one trying to disprove on that point.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

All right guys, chill out I don't think we need the walls.

In short we have no precedent for DNA fusion on-site, as such it should be looked at a case-by-case basis, which means that burden of proof is on both parties. Which basically comes down to looking at the feats of every alien individually, as Rusty said earlier. One fair assumption I think can be made is that the fusion’s power will be somewhere between the 2 fusees. I think most people can agree on that, but I don’t think we can say more than that without looking at the actual feats each fusion has.

And I disagree with this take. There's a difference between not automatically saying "fusions are stronger and thats the end of it" and also not pretending like common sense exists. Because the latter is what people here are doing in this thread, being intellectually dishonest and asking, for god knows why, evidence on every little thing that can't be drawn to conclusions from simple logic. And thats just ridiculous.

If we don't need to prove 1 + 1 = 2, we also don't need to prove a fusion is stronger from the start, because the very basis of fusion is that. Combining sum parts together into one, which is going to automatically be seen as stronger FIRST. Now, can a fusion be weaker than the sum of their parts? Yes. It's not an absolute rule that they are stronger. But THAT is what needs the burden of proof, since its going against the basis of fusion and combination and that cannot be automatically assumed without specific evidence proving that is the case for the specific verse. Arguing a fusion is weaker is to argue that the fusion grants negative power, which isn't how fusion or combination works. At all.

Regardless, ive said my piece and im sticking with it. No amount of back and forth between me and 2 others is changing that. So yes, this thread should be closed now. Nothing new has changed between now and the other multiple AX threads.

 

[ShinyFire]

That doesn’t matter because Atomic X is high 5-A on his profile, making a large portion of your OP ultimately

That doesn’t matter because Atomic X is high 5-A on his profile, making a large portion of your OP ultimately pointless.

MAYBE.

It was still inaccurate infkr

It isn't. Its based off head canon using evidence that isn't actually evidence. The fusion aliens from the OG series were created by a MALFUNCTION in the original omnitrix when Ben messed with its casing, using an Omnitrix that was not designed to create fusion aliens. Those fusions were abominated glitches.

The biomnitrix is a completely different thing as Ben 10K designed it specifically with the function to make proper fusion aliens. Equating properly made fusions to ones made by glitches is completely ridiculous.

No offense for you specifically, but this has been addressed on dozens of threads here already and are given the same answer every single freaking time. Its a false equivalence and head canon.

Debunk time.
In the original series, the episode that shows Aliens being fused was written by Duncan Rouleau...
The episode in Omniverse, and then there were none, which shows Atomic X and Binomitrix was also written by Rouleau. Who literally said himself that fusions are weaker...

 

[ShinyFire]

It isn't. Its based off head canon using evidence that isn't actually evidence. The fusion aliens from the OG series were created by a MALFUNCTION in the original omnitrix when Ben messed with its casing, using an Omnitrix that was not designed to create fusion aliens. Those fusions were abominated glitches.

The biomnitrix is a completely different thing as Ben 10K designed it specifically with the function to make proper fusion aliens. Equating properly made fusions to ones made by glitches is completely ridiculous.

No offense for you specifically, but this has been addressed on dozens of threads here already and are given the same answer every single freaking time. Its a false equivalence and head canon.

The episode that first shows fusions in Ben 10 was written by Duncan Rouleau, the episodes in Omniverse that show the Biomnitrix and Atomic X was also written by Duncan.
He himself states that fusions are weaker and its been shown on two occasions that Alien X either as a dilution or without his two consciousnesses is weaker.

 

[ShinyFire]

It doesnt matter if its stated or not, because we're not a site where we pretend common sense doesnt exist until something says otherwise. The default standard is that any part added onto another part will make the sum of the 2 greater than the sums. This is literally saying it needs to be stated that 1 + 1 is greater than 2.

Would usually be true but different fictions, different rules. Unless you're saying 5D in Ben 10 is infinitely superior to 4D.

 

[ShinyFire]

And I disagree with this take. There's a difference between not automatically saying "fusions are stronger and thats the end of it" and also not pretending like common sense exists. Because the latter is what people here are doing in this thread, being intellectually dishonest and asking, for god knows why, evidence on every little thing that can't be drawn to conclusions from simple logic. And thats just ridiculous.

If we don't need to prove 1 + 1 = 2, we also don't need to prove a fusion is stronger from the start, because the very basis of fusion is that. Combining sum parts together into one, which is going to automatically be seen as stronger FIRST. Now, can a fusion be weaker than the sum of their parts? Yes. It's not an absolute rule that they are stronger. But THAT is what needs the burden of proof, since its going against the basis of fusion and combination and that cannot be automatically assumed without specific evidence proving that is the case for the specific verse. Arguing a fusion is weaker is to argue that the fusion grants negative power, which isn't how fusion or combination works. At all.

Regardless, ive said my piece and im sticking with it. No amount of back and forth between me and 2 others is changing that. So yes, this thread should be closed now. Nothing new has changed between now and the other multiple AX threads.

Dude, Atomic X does not scale up to Alien X in anyway. He does not even have Bellicus and Serena. That alone should speak on it's own. Ben prime already has control over Alien X which in the show is stated to be omnipotence, why would Ben 10k need Atomic X unless of course in his timeline, he did not gain control and needs the fusion for control purposes but at the same time loses said "omnipotence" his ability to reality warp.

 

[ShinyFire]

Just out of curiosity, why would Alien X get dragged down if Atomic X scales to him?

Atomic X was destroyed by a Chronosapien time bomb
2. He showes no reality Warping.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think my site is glitching, did you see my previous response?

I can see it, may be a connection thing... or you refreshed the page

 

[DragonLord]

Yes, though the site is glitching a bit on my end too

 

[ShinyFire]

I can see it, may be a connection thing... or you refreshed the page

Probably, thanks for the assistance. I think it's good now. I couldn't see my responses and Thought I had to type everything again, was going to quit

 

[DaReaperMan]

Probably, thanks for the assistance. I think it's good now. I couldn't see my responses and Thought I had to type everything again, was going to quit

I'm here the help!

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

You guys are posting too many back to back walls of text. Stop spamming, Jesus.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

The OP question has been answered pls someone nuke this thread

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Closing time.