9-B Brackets: Round 1

[Chartate101]

if its incon, that kinda ***** up the bracket now, doesn't ut

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

(EDIT: Also, in the case of an Incon, I might do a joke thread/obstacles course to determine who goes to the next round)

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I really think y'all are ignoring the powers vs biology concept. Saying "we don't really know how powers work" is not an argument. We don't really know if Ken is actually an omnipotent being pretending to be a 9-B/9-A/8-C. You can't use something that "we don't know it is not" in an argument, and as of this moment, John has shown no ability to just copy someone's biology, only their Ability. There is a difference between an ability that mimics other abilities, and an ability that changes your entire biology to suit.

9-B Ken is somewhat higher than a guy who is just above baseline. So yes, there is quite a gap there.

On the other hand, saying "John punches and Ken splatters" ignores that TG is a manga where 90% of investigators are both slower and far weaker than a ghoul, most ghouls still get splattered by other ghoul's Kagunes, and everyone dodges everything because tanking or blocking is generally a really really poor decision. Regardless of the AP advantage, Ken is pretty freaking good at dodging.

9-A Ken on the other hand is either at the border between 9-A and 8-C, or is already into 8-C. So I'm pretty sure he has the advantage there, and I think that's what we are using.

Of course, let's not forget that powers unleashed is also a different key to base 9-B.

So basically, 9-B John = much stronger than Kaneki, but nothing else, while 9-A John is much weaker, but has more versatility.

Also, I mentioned this before, but Kaneki heals through regen null.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I think one of the points that was the major source behind a John victory was that he could trap Ken in a set of barriers with attack reflection, although since attack reflection wasn't listed on his profile I'm not too sure.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

9-B John doesn't have his powers, and 9-A John gets the barriers broken by Kaneki's superior AP

 

[Wokistan]

9B still has powers, as his tier key is at least 9B likely 1A.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Fair enough. Vote is still 5-5, although I don't see much reason behind backing John as it is.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

9B still has powers, as his tier key is at least 9B likely 1A.

Likely 1-A?

Wow, the new chapter must have been intense af.

And yeah I just looked at his profile again and saw that.

But like. Using John's 9-B key against Kaneki's 9-B key would be a stomp. John's 1000 times stronger or something in addition to having all his powers, while Ken is a just-above-baseline 9-B person with low-mid Regenerationn.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yeah, that's why I swapped it to 9-A.

 

[Wokistan]

He power copied the concept of dimensions and surpassed it midway through geometry class

This is for a tournament, so some stomps being there are inevitable. I'm not voting either way as of now since I'm not particularly knowledgeable here on either one, but if something's more balanced, just go for that.

 

[Nico-v11]

I think he meant 9-A lol

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I mean, it's fine at 9-A as it is.

That said I'm going to have to swap out Hat Kid or Cuphead seeing as they've already had a match.

 

[Wokistan]

>9A match

>9B bracket

Reported for false advertisement, see you in court

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Yes, they are still 9-B physically.

Legit, I would rather let both use 9-A abilities for one round than waste everyone's time by closing the thread and finding a new opponent, which would likely just cause people to lose intrest and for me to waste the Afternoon I spent setting up the brackets.

 

[Wokistan]

was joke

Are you running more than one of these threads concurrently? If not I'd recommend it.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I can open up a second thread seeing as this one is on the rear end to completion. Speaking of, I'd recommend whoever voted John to rethink their vote give Monarch's arguments.

I believe the next round was Terrarian vs Tsumemon.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I felt an enormous sense of déj├á vu reading that, and I'm not sure why

 

[Mand21]

Yeah, I rethought my vote and it's back to Ken.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

@Monarch

I see your point. Though, morphing one's hands to claws can easily be seen as a biological change. Hands and claws are different structures biological speaking. As is the point with regards to Seraphina's family having the same ability, meaning that it's very likely that their abilities have to do with their biology. And if that is the case, John's ability would have to allow him to mimic their biology in some way. As this would mean their abilities are biological in a similar way to quirks from MHA. Since we don't know exactly how this works, it's hard to argue that this is the case. But considering that we don't have any other knowledge, then it's fairly hard to argue that this isn't the case.

The Ken thing with regards to us not knowing if he is an omnipotent god is false equivalence here, as he's never shown such, and there is no obviously intentioned statements that would lead to such a conclusion. Whereas the evidence I just provided gives John a rather plausible chance at being able to mimic someone's abilities based upon their biology.

Also, I am confused as well. Is this a 9-B bracket, or is this going to be the only match that allows 9-A forms? I feel as though it might defeat the purpose otherwise, though either way seems a bit stompy.

Also, Monarch is right with regards to Ken being able to shatter his barriers due to higher AP if 9-A forms are used.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's using their 9-A stuff

The thing about the claws though is that he is not shapeshifting his hands into claws to copy the ability. He is copying the ability to shape shift his hands into claws.

Superpowers being hereditary isn't exactly uncommon in fiction. But it's more plausible to say that John's ability lets him mimic the powers he sees than to say he can reshift his entire DNA to make himself able to use those powers. And unless you can prove that John can grow an entirely new organ inside his body, and create a billion or so rc cells out of nothing, he can't copy Kaneki's ghoulishness.

If a Siamese twin walked up to John, do you think John could suddenly grow a new person out of his body? Or if John lost an arm, he could regrow it by looking at someone who had an arm?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Ah, gotcha. RIP 9-B bracket, lol.

But why is it that such an ability does not require a change in biology. The ability in it of itself requires a change in biology, so he'd be copying an ability that allows him to partially alter his own biology.

Saying that John can copy Kaneki's abilities in their totality might be a bit of a stretch, given how they work. This is true. Though, under SBA, why would this not come across to John as a superpower? Similar to the girl in Unordinary who can grow 4 (or was it 8) extra limbs like a spider, she certainly acquires extra limbs through use of her ability. And said ability alters her biology. If Ken's kagune comes across to John as nothing more than an ability, then why would his power mimicry at the same time not adapt to allow his body usage of said ability?

If said person had the ability to clone themselves, or grow an arm, then yes, sure. As they would be seen as abilities.

However, I think I'm understanding your point. If I'm correct, you're saying that Ken doesn't have true abilities. But, rather, it's his physiology that equips him to fight. Such that he doesn't have an ability to copy. Though it's still questionable as to whether or not such a thing would be seen as an ability to John. He just sees and copies. And, as shown through the example with Seraphina, their biology is likely what gives them their superhuman qualities. Their physiology.

Please help me to understand if I am missing something key here.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

, I think I'm understanding your point. If I'm correct, you're saying that Ken doesn't have true abilities. But, rather, it's his physiology that equips him to fight. Such that he doesn't have an ability to copy. Though it's still questionable as to whether or not such a thing would be seen as an ability to John. He just sees and copies. And, as shown through the example with Seraphina, their biology is likely what gives them their superhuman qualities. Their physiology.

Yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying. The difference between 8-arms and melli is that their ability is "to change their body to grow claws / more arms". Kaneki doesn't have the ability to "change his body to become a ghoul". A ghoul is what he is, not an ability in and of itself. John can't copy what someone is, only their ability. And Kaneki's powers aren't an ability as the UnOrdinary verse defines it. He's just another species. Unless John could see a cat and gain super reflexes and night vision, he can't copy Kankeki's abilities

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Alright. I gotcha.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

In that case, I'll have to go with Ken. Basically, FRA. John can't efficiently bypass his regen, and trying to use his barrier to block would cause the attack reflection upon him, since Ken has the AP advantage.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Then John has no means of bypassing said regen. Making this pretty unfair.

Ryüko Matoi

Okay and? Those matches should be removed, simple as that.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I really think Power Mimicry should be revised tbh.

Ken FRA. I dont think this matchup should be added if John cant really bypass his regen at all.

At least that is my opinion.

Regen auto-wins get tiring tbh

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He can though

Like I said, Kaneki's Mid isn't combat applicable, nor is it even that good.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Oh, it's not.

I'd like to argue inconclusive, but that AP gap is really large. And basically the reason why it's a stomp in the other direction. John may have more diversity of powers compared to Ken, but none of them really help him overcome that gap.

 

[Nico-v11]

Aren't John's powers temporary too? He'll likely lose them before finishing his fight with Kaneki too

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'm pretty sure they aren't quite that temporary

 

[Nico-v11]

Eh not sure. I'd have to go back but it didn't feel that long to me

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

John - 2 (Chartate, RR)

Ken - 8 (Overlord, Nico, Apies, Monarch, Spino, Kinkiest, Litentric, Mand)


Grace period begins.

Next battle will be up shortly.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I reread the chapters where John fights. His abilities would certainly last him the whole fight. He still had Meli and Ventus' abilities after defeating them and going to fight Arlo.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

NEXT ROUND IS UP. CLICK HERE!

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I hate to break it to you, but I'm pretty sure if you're hosting a 9-B tournament, you can't use the 9-A keys lol

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Especially considering the fight would have gone very differently had they been 9-B

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Especially considering the fight would have gone very differently had they been 9-B

The fight would have been a stomp otherwise. I'd rather not lose the momentum of the tournament, and make a one-time exception for this case.

(EDIT): If that's still an issue, this can just be added as a regular match. The Tournament brackets is for fun, a series of regular 1v1 matches.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

And if enough people are peeved by that, I'll just remove both Ken/John from the brackets and introduce two new characters from the pool for the last match of round one.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I just wonder what we're going to do when it comes down to 9-A Kaneki vs 9-B Terrarian/Tsumenon

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Not use 9-A Ken, I guess.