8-B Tournament Round 1, Match 3: Kanoh Agito vs Ken Kaneki

[RandomGuy2345]

Grace period is now over. Kaneki (along with Sero) move on to the 2nd round.

Good debating, everyone.

These profiles can be added, now.

 

[Popted2]

Grace period is now over. Kaneki (along with Sero) move on to the 2nd round.

Good debating, everyone.

These profiles can be added, now.

where is the bracket?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Link the main hub thread.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/8-b-tournament.124761/post-4163595

Here's the matchups in order.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Enid Mettle vs Optimus Prime will be the first matchup in the 2nd round.

 

[Sero]

Grace period is now over. Kaneki (along with Sero) move on to the 2nd round.

Good debating, everyone.

These profiles can be added, now.

AFTER SO MANY SETBACKS! WOOOOOOOOOOOOO-

Anyways, Great debate from you're part Lord Ginsama, it's obvious you're a way better debater then me and it show, so that means i absolutly have to thank the people that we're defending kanaki. Thank you Jamesthetaker and Nikhelton, you secured the bag.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Enid Mettle vs Optimus Prime will be the first matchup in the 2nd round.

talking about it, we sitill need to add it to steve profile

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Round 2, Match 1: Enid Mettle vs Optimus Prime
Round 2, Match 2: Ken Kaneki vs Ashen One

2nd round lookin good so far.

 

[NikHelton]

Can I add battle results to the page?

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Can I add battle results to the page?

Be my guess.

 

[LordGinSama]

All Kanoh can do is change the trajectory of his attacks and slip out of the hands of an equal opponent. It's not even close to impressive, like the mobility of Arima or Suzuya, who run towards a mass attack that hits with an unpredictable trajectory and one touch can kill them.

Kanoh doesn't change the trajectory of his attacks so first of all that's false, secondly Arima neither Suzuya have ever reacted to something unpredictable in nature.

. Such pressure attacks are comparable to some kind of natural disaster and the best investigators break into this disaster, walking along the edge and not getting a single scratch.

Which is AP and durability not skill.

Do you compare the hands of Bando, who stands still and just waves them to the side, increasing by a certain number of meters, throwing them like a whip and tentacles that have cutting properties, stretch to a much longer length and are controlled many times better? Seriously?

First of all, lower the damn tone. You're just being intentionally Arrogant at this point. And yes, to an extent I did. They're still working on the same concept, unorthodox movements and such.

As soon as he leaves the kagune's line of defeat, it will immediately turn around and continue to attack him again. Dozens of tentacles from different sides. Moreover, Kaneki can make the tentacles talk to confuse the enemy and deliver a fatal blow.

To which Agito can avoid again.

Once he grabs Kaneki, Kaneki in turn grabs him. Their collision will cause Kaneki to overwhelm him with a force that is tens of thousands of times greater than Kanoh's. It's like going to fight a bear. To do this successfully, it is necessary to have a close LS, but here we have an insurmountable gap.

And before Kaneki can grab him he'll let go.

Nevertheless, Okubo and Hatsumi handled it calmly. Kaneki will have no problems and there is no reason to contradict this.

Both Okubo and Hatsumi are both highly skilled grapplers, something that Kaneki is not.

The fact that they can change their angles somewhat, although not even close to as coordinated, will not help in this fight in any way.

Ohma's Swimming Swallow is definitely a lot more coordinated.

Tokita reached this level by comprehending the mastery of Nico Style. There is no reason to believe that Kanoh scales up to his flair simply because he is in the top 5 characters of the verse.

The Niko Style isn't what gives Ohma his enhanced senses.

He fought Wakatsuki, who constantly generates shock waves in his battles due to his high strength.

He doesn't do that constantly with each blow.

Ruyki's mobility lies in the fact that he dives under the enemy and is abruptly thrown up.

This isn't exactly true either, as seen in his training with Koga. Ryuki can casually preform flips, create after images, etc.

This has already been done by Akoya, Himuro and Naidan. The moment of his disappearance from the field of view is nothing more than an artistic device, because all the characters against whom it was used reacted to it.

Akoya has the fastest reaction speed in the verse, and Naidan has precognition that Ryuki used speed to bypass. It's definitely not an artistic device.

The same applies to the ******** images. They arise only when there is a gap in speed between the opponents and is an artistic device. And it works just like the ability of a fighter named Fantom, who sent his presence to the enemy, bypassing the foresight. This is not an illusion, but a tactic.

It's never been stated nor implied they're leaving after images out of sheer speed, Gensai and Kanoh are relative in speed, Yu-Mon doesn't do that out of speed either so all of this is inherently false.

No, we already have the ability to compensate for incoming damage, create impulses that damage the internal organs of an opponent who could not be penetrated by much more destructive attacks, the ability to change the trajectory of attacks right during the jump and attacks from eastern martial arts.

Yes and literally none of that compares to all of the categories in Kengan. No really let's sit here and compare each skill feat in the verse and then the difference will be clear as day.

I don't understand why you are so stubbornly ignoring this.

Not ignoring this, they just aren't impressive to anything remotely notable in Kengan ashura.

Okubo and Gaolang, who were incredible MMA fighter and boxer, created an incredible problem for Kanoh, and here is a more experienced fighter who breaks the tops of the TG verse without resorting to his natural amplifier.

First of all, context. Both Gaolang and Okubo are much, much more skilled than Kaneki, Okubo got Mid diff'd by r1 Kanoh, and Gaolang was only a fight diff because he kept trying to challenge Gaolang to his own respective field. Once Kanoh resorted to his Formless countering tactics he pretty quickly dispatched of Gaolang, and at this point he didn't incorporate Formless + Martial arts.

The difference is in the language barrier. By calm, I didn't mean an emotional state, but a degree of lightness. That is, calmly = without making an effort.

Kanoh's movements are always likened to that of water, fluid and unpredictable.

If Kuroki had the 8-C key, I would be interested in betting it against Matasaka if more people than 2-3 participated in the discussion.

Equalize the stats.

But it implies this itself.

It doesn't even remotely imply a difference of tens of times. Those words never left my mouth once, you could cause internal damage with less than a 2x advantage.

Shachi turned the organs into mush with one blow of his fist, or at least caused profuse bleeding and forced him to fall to his knees, having no chance to get up.

Scans? Doesn't even sound like sheer internal damage.

The same Kaneki calmly regenerated a lot of holes in his stomach, got up after being thrown into the wall like a kakuja Yamori projectile and got up after a lot of attacks on vital organs.

Which is irrelevant since Kanoh wouldn't aim at Kaneki's vital organs other than the head with Dragon Shot.

This either implies that his physical condition without using kagune >>>>>> the full brute power of kakuja ghouls or that he uses Fa Jin attacks, or something similar that harms internal organs by destroying them.

I'd say the former.

Kengan Ashura fighters begin to experience difficulties against opponents with weapons when it is something more than a bat and an iron pipe.

Ohma literally beat the shit out of 100+ men armed with bats, knives and swords and a whole bunch of different weapons. Kuroki is one of the greatest assassin's in verse, Rei fights armed opponents all the time, Muteba solos crews of heavily armed people with a knife out of sheer skill, etc.

The maneuverability of the top investigators of the senior class and above, as well as ghouls above SS rank, puts them at a dead end.
This moment puts Suzuya, Arima, Kaneki and other high-top TG characters on a completely different level

Lmao this is literally just the Redirection Kata but even worse.

Heavily disagree with Kaneki even being remotely comparable to Kanoh in terms of skill, that's about as bad as me saying Kaneki can keep up with Yujiro or Kenshiro.

 

[NikHelton]

Kanoh doesn't change the trajectory of his attacks so first of all that's false, secondly Arima neither Suzuya have ever reacted to something unpredictable in nature.

Kanoh moved from the stalls to the attack and from the attack to the stalls, changing his style at the very last moment. This already fits the category of trajectory change. Suzuya and Arima have repeatedly faced unpredictable attacks because kakuja ghouls attack insanely. Kaneki, on the verge of death, released a huge amount of biomass into Arima, which he successfully blocked. Kaneki calmly dodged the attacks of the distraught Eto, whose kakuja had long lost its stable form and turned almost into slime. Suzuya parries and dodges the furious attacks of two S+ rank ghouls, approaching them in parallel.

Which is AP and durability not skill.

No, that's exactly what skills are. They don't accept it with their body. They dodge and parry, not letting the attack touch them.

First of all, lower the damn tone. You're just being intentionally Arrogant at this point. And yes, to an extent I did. They're still working on the same concept, unorthodox movements and such.

There's nothing wrong with my tone. My question "seriously" is not rude in any way, so I ask you not to start a dispute on this basis. And with all the flexibility of the Bando, the hands remain hands, not having the same length and flexibility as the tentacles. Hatsumi proved this by simply breaking them.

To which Agito can avoid again.

Has Kano encountered talking tentacles? I don't think so. Therefore, this attack will perfectly be able to distract him so that Kaneki strikes the decisive blow.

And before Kaneki can grab him he'll let go.

He does not know about the superior strength of the enemy. In the battle of the stalls, the one who is being strangled always tries to grab the hands of the suffocator. If the attacker was constantly running away when it starts, then the stalls simply lose their meaning. So Kanoh just loses his hands.

Both Okubo and Hatsumi are both highly skilled grapplers, something that Kaneki is not.

Can you prove the difference between professional MMA and military combat discipline against an enemy that is 10 times stronger than you physically. The essence of the capture technique is the same. Stats are equal. Kaneki should have absolutely no problems.

Ohma's Swimming Swallow is definitely a lot more coordinated.

Bring the scans, please.

The Niko Style isn't what gives Ohma his enhanced senses.

I'm talking about the state that he comprehended after learning all the kata and learning to perceive the world around him.

He doesn't do that constantly with each blow.

He does this every time he is serious and often with ordinary punches. This is evident in your calculation, where he caused the dome of Purgatory to shake.

Akoya has the fastest reaction speed in the verse, and Naidan has precognition that Ryuki used speed to bypass. It's definitely not an artistic device.

It's funny that Himuro is still here. Ryuki had the opportunity to kill Akoya later and successfully attacked him after that. It's not about reaction here. Himuro bluntly says that the suddenness of this style does not work during a fight. How can fighters block a blow that goes a much shorter way than the distance that Ryuki overcame? That is, we are portrayed every time that it evaporates in the air. Opponents do not see how he overcame the conditional 10 meters, but see how he swings his fist in front of their face?

It's never been stated nor implied they're leaving after images out of sheer speed, Gensai and Kanoh are relative in speed, Yu-Mon doesn't do that out of speed either so all of this is inherently false.

Afterimages just work due to the speed and limitations of visual perception.

Yes and literally none of that compares to all of the categories in Kengan. No really let's sit here and compare each skill feat in the verse and then the difference will be clear as day.

Because... why? The crude attack of the weakest Kengan fighter is based on Fa Jin, however, a character who has spent his life studying martial arts and studied with someone Asian sage cannot own it, although he shows an attack of the same type? It looks like you're skeptical about the combat skills of TG characters.

Not ignoring this, they just aren't impressive to anything remotely notable in Kengan ashura.

Everything I have shown is impressive already by the standards of Kengan.

First of all, context. Both Gaolang and Okubo are much, much more skilled than Kaneki, Okubo got Mid diff'd by r1 Kanoh, and Gaolang was only a fight diff because he kept trying to challenge Gaolang to his own respective field. Once Kanoh resorted to his Formless countering tactics he pretty quickly dispatched of Gaolang, and at this point he didn't incorporate Formless + Martial arts.

First of all, Okubo and Gaolang are the best fighters of boxing and MMA. However, this does not make them something divine. Okubo has a strong and good base in all the features of MMA. He is not brilliant in every manifestation, but he is good in everything at once. Gaolang's strength lies in his ability to carry attacks like a Muay Thai fighter, incredibly fast jabs and kicks. This is just advanced boxing, which rests on stats, and not some incredible martial art, such as the Fist of a mountain stream crushing stones from OPM. This does not make any gap between Kaneki and the best Kengan fighters.

Kanoh's movements are always likened to that of water, fluid and unpredictable.

I'm still not about that. I meant that the characters do something with relative ease.

Equalize the stats.

Is this allowed in combat formats?

It doesn't even remotely imply a difference of tens of times. Those words never left my mouth once, you could cause internal damage with less than a 2x advantage.

If the brute attack of a monster sharpened by brute force did not damage the internal organs and did not affect the enemy, and your usual attack turned the organs into mincemeat, then the difference between your strength is multiple.

Scans? Doesn't even sound like sheer internal damage.

Kaneki got hit in the stomach, spat out a huge amount of blood and was on his knees unable to get up. Before that, he calmly took serious wounds in the stomach and continued the fight, which already says a lot.

Which is irrelevant since Kanoh wouldn't aim at Kaneki's vital organs other than the head with Dragon Shot.

Kaneki suffers a Dragon shot, because it is only a concussion, which is something ridiculous compared to the destruction of a large part of the brain and further battle with the enemy.

I'd say the former.

It's a pity that this is not the case, because the character is based on us as one that uses martial arts, and does not have incredible brute force, like the same Amon.

Ohma literally beat the shit out of 100+ men armed with bats, knives and swords and a whole bunch of different weapons. Kuroki is one of the greatest assassin's in verse, Rei fights armed opponents all the time, Muteba solos crews of heavily armed people with a knife out of sheer skill, etc.

Inaba could not dodge the knife thrown at him and was forced to take it with his hand. Kooru, who is a cool mercenary from the Himalayas, was eventually hit by an opponent with a weapon. Adam and Ryan received gun wounds. Gaolang found the skilled swordsman an incredible challenge. I'm not talking about all the characters, but for most of them it's really something dangerous.

Lmao this is literally just the Redirection Kata but even worse.

Worse? What place? The fact that Arashiyama could throw an enemy at touch was considered something incredible for kata redirection. Immediately, Suzuya parries and diverts the attacks of two opponents at once, each of which is capable of tearing his body to shreds, while advancing on the enemy. This far surpasses all that the Kengan characters have shown.

Heavily disagree with Kaneki even being remotely comparable to Kanoh in terms of skill, that's about as bad as me saying Kaneki can keep up with Yujiro or Kenshiro.

Kanoh is undoubtedly a more skilled fighter when it comes to hand-to-hand combat. However, this is suppressed by Kaneki's superior LS and incredible mobility, as well as his swordsmanship skills and incredible kagune mastery.
If they fought purely hand-to-hand, Agito would definitely win, but he doesn't have a chance when the enemy uses kagune.

And I do not know if it makes sense to continue this thread of discussion, because the results have already been accepted. To be honest, I'm tired of writing through a translator and answering every point and answering every point.
I even broke away from my LS calculation of Jilius and Wakatsuki for this.

 

[LordGinSama]

Kanoh moved from the stalls to the attack and from the attack to the stalls, changing his style at the very last moment. This already fits the category of trajectory change.

When did Kanoh ever fight anywhere near stalls? I'm sorry but I'm very much lost with what your saying here, Kanoh doesn't use the Redirection Kata.

Suzuya and Arima have repeatedly faced unpredictable attacks because kakuja ghouls attack insanely.

Ghoul Attacks aren't unpredictable, unorthodox attacks aren't unpredictable.

Kaneki, on the verge of death, released a huge amount of biomass into Arima, which he successfully blocked. Kaneki calmly dodged the attacks of the distraught Eto, whose kakuja had long lost its stable form and turned almost into slime. Suzuya parries and dodges the furious attacks of two S+ rank ghouls, approaching them in parallel.

Yeah none of this compares to fodder who are able of analyzing and predicting the opponent movements.

No, that's exactly what skills are. They don't accept it with their body. They dodge and parry, not letting the attack touch them.

You can cause internal damage with AP, I'm not talking about agility or dodging I'm talking about the internal damage.

There's nothing wrong with my tone. My question "seriously" is not rude in any way, so I ask you not to start a dispute on this basis.

You accused me of being ignorant several times, that's not what I'd consider a respectful tone.

And with all the flexibility of the Bando, the hands remain hands, not having the same length and flexibility as the tentacles. Hatsumi proved this by simply breaking them.

First of all, Hatsumi broke them via destroying Bando's bones and joints, the fact that his arms can move like literal whips says otherwise although I do agree a Ghoul's Kagune would be more flexible the point being this is something that can be predicted.

Has Kano encountered talking tentacles? I don't think so. Therefore, this attack will perfectly be able to distract him so that Kaneki strikes the decisive blow.

Kanoh has no reason to pay any attention to other sources of sound whenever he's focusing on Kaneki. He fought against deadly opponents in an arena full of yelling viewers without getting distracted.

He does not know about the superior strength of the enemy. In the battle of the stalls, the one who is being strangled always tries to grab the hands of the suffocator. If the attacker was constantly running away when it starts, then the stalls simply lose their meaning. So Kanoh just loses his hands.

The battle of stalls???? I don't follow.

Can you prove the difference between professional MMA and military combat discipline against an enemy that is 10 times stronger than you physically.

The application and feats make all the difference, said MMA fighters display better fests of skill and even have reliable statements to back it up. Kengan is all about skill, TG is not.

The essence of the capture technique is the same. Stats are equal. Kaneki should have absolutely no problems.

Stats aren't equal here at all, not sure where you got that from.

Bring the scans, please.

Sure here and here, Ohma's Swimming Swallow is shown changing trajectory and bending and is stated to be unpredictable by Kazzy who has Precognition. Ohma being accurate enough to strike the very tip of a whip off.

I'm talking about the state that he comprehended after learning all the kata and learning to perceive the world around him.

Yeah and that isn't exclusive to The Niko Style. Ohma's enhanced senses comes from him being born in the Inside.

He does this every time he is serious and often with ordinary punches. This is evident in your calculation, where he caused the dome of Purgatory to shake.

Wakatsuki doesn't cause shockwave's with each and every serious attack he makes, this is false.

It's funny that Himuro is still here.

Himuro reacted to one attack, from a very causal Ryuki nonetheless.

Ryuki had the opportunity to kill Akoya later and successfully attacked him after that. It's not about reaction here.

Ryuki didn't kill Akoya because of Koga's promise and feedback about Ryuki not killing.

Himuro bluntly says that the suddenness of this style does not work during a fight.

First of all Himuro statements are a far cry from being legitimate unless you think Yumi is as strong as Kanoh. And Himuro meant more as in the Gaoh Style isn't meant for fighting due to it being an assassination style.

How can fighters block a blow that goes a much shorter way than the distance that Ryuki overcame? That is, we are portrayed every time that it evaporates in the air. Opponents do not see how he overcame the conditional 10 meters, but see how he swings his fist in front of their face?

Most of them rely on reacting last second with their enhanced senses, Prediction or in Akoya's case his sheer reaction speed. Rei was literally invisible to Gensai's reactions but Gensai's could still predict where Rei was going to be.

Afterimages just work due to the speed and limitations of visual perception.

Phantom Pace begs to differ, the after images aren't a byproduct of sheer speed.

Because... why? The crude attack of the weakest Kengan fighter is based on Fa Jin,

Which Kengan fighters??? If you mean Liu he's far from the weakest, the weakest is Rihito and he doesn't use Fa Jin's.

however, a character who has spent his life studying martial arts and studied with someone Asian sage cannot own it, although he shows an attack of the same type? It looks like you're skeptical about the combat skills of TG characters.

This is literally something every Kengan characters already does. In Kengan ashura we have guys who can have layers of Analytical Prediction, Information Analysis, can fight effectively while blind and deaf, great display of body control, manipulating one's organs and such, anti fighting styles, styles that are unpredictable, etc.

Everything I have shown is impressive already by the standards of Kengan.

I disagree entirely.

First of all, Okubo and Gaolang are the best fighters of boxing and MMA.

When did I say they weren't?

However, this does not make them something divine. Okubo has a strong and good base in all the features of MMA. He is not brilliant in every manifestation, but he is good in everything at once.

False and contradicts his entire fighting style, Okubo uses a Synthesis to counteract specialized type fighters, he's an all rounder with excellent skill in deducing his opponents weaknesses to find a counter.

Gaolang's strength lies in his ability to carry attacks like a Muay Thai fighter, incredibly fast jabs and kicks.

Muay Thai hardly uses jabs, hence why he picked up boxing.

This is just advanced boxing, which rests on stats, and not some incredible martial art, such as the Fist of a mountain stream crushing stones from OPM. This does not make any gap between Kaneki and the best Kengan fighters.

Gaolang didn't just get to where he is via strength alone, so that's definitely downplaying. He's called the best striker because of his speed, power and skill. Kanoh was stronger than Gaolang in their fight but Gaolang had the overwhelming advantage in skill when it came to boxing and striking. Gaolang himself is a better striker than Kaneki could ever hope to be.

I'm still not about that. I meant that the characters do something with relative ease.

Yeah that's something fodder can do with ease.

Is this allowed in combat formats?

Yeah but they won't be added.

If the brute attack of a monster sharpened by brute force did not damage the internal organs and did not affect the enemy, and your usual attack turned the organs into mincemeat, then the difference between your strength is multiple.

Not quite, it depends on where they were struck and what organ. Liver kicks are effective for a reason.

Kaneki got hit in the stomach, spat out a huge amount of blood and was on his knees unable to get up. Before that, he calmly took serious wounds in the stomach and continued the fight, which already says a lot.

Scans please?

Kaneki suffers a Dragon shot, because it is only a concussion, which is something ridiculous compared to the destruction of a large part of the brain and further battle with the enemy.

A violent concussion meant to KO the opponent. A concussion is different than a hole in the head.

It's a pity that this is not the case, because the character is based on us as one that uses martial arts, and does not have incredible brute force, like the same Amon.

Using Martial arts doesn't automatically equate into a Fa Jin.

Inaba could not dodge the knife thrown at him and was forced to take it with his hand.

Inaba was wounded from his match with Ohma, previously he's shown blocking off machinegun fire.

Kooru, who is a cool mercenary from the Himalayas, was eventually hit by an opponent with a weapon.

His last opponent was Akoya who always leaves lasting damage so that's not the best example.

Adam and Ryan received gun wounds.

Adam is literally fodder and Raian was fighting against multiple opponents.

Gaolang found the skilled swordsman an incredible challenge.

Said opponent was also capable of using the Possessing Spirit and Gaolang himself was hurt badly after his fight with Kanoh.

I'm not talking about all the characters, but for most of them it's really something dangerous.

Because of the context.

Worse? What place? The fact that Arashiyama could throw an enemy at touch was considered something incredible for kata redirection.

Not quite, Jurota's Judo is more effective at knocking the opponent off balance more than Ohma's Redirection Kata. In terms of deflection Ohma's Redirection Kata is better.

Immediately, Suzuya parries and diverts the attacks of two opponents at once, each of which is capable of tearing his body to shreds, while advancing on the enemy. This far surpasses all that the Kengan characters have shown.

Yeah, no not even in the slightest. Ohma's Redirection Kata is capable of reflecting 5 strike's from Kuroki's Gensai, all of which were thrown as killing blows and Ohma did this while he was dying. Ohma before Round 1 was capable of already deflecting two fighters into one another, can parry attacks from those with Foresight and back at the opponent. let's not even go into Demonsbane. Kaneki isn't keeping up in that category.

Kanoh is undoubtedly a more skilled fighter when it comes to hand-to-hand combat. However, this is suppressed by Kaneki's superior LS and incredible mobility, as well as his swordsmanship skills and incredible kagune mastery.

Swordsmanship gets countered by Kanoh being able to seal off it's usage by entering the no sword range.

If they fought purely hand-to-hand, Agito would definitely win, but he doesn't have a chance when the enemy uses kagune.

Agreed to disagree.

And I do not know if it makes sense to continue this thread of discussion, because the results have already been accepted. To be honest, I'm tired of writing through a translator and answering every point and answering every point.

Well it's already over I'm just addressing the skill stuff.

I even broke away from my LS calculation of Jilius and Wakatsuki for this.

Good luck.

 

[NikHelton]

When I said stalls, I meant par terre, that is, fighting on the ground. The translator gives out nonsense.

Later, many characters said that the Ryuki style was not suitable for Kengan fights and stopped working after it was applied for the 1st time.

By a weak Kengan fighter, I didn't mean Liu, but the big guy Koga fought with. His Hammer was built on Fa Jin.

In TG, the whole struggle of investigators is also built on improved perception, analysis of the enemy and kinetic vision. Kengan is not surprising.

At this point, I think I'll go to bed, because I need to get up for work in 5 hours. Have a good night.

 

[LordGinSama]

Gn.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

How is this thread getting more attention than my most recent one???