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9-B Brackets: Round 2

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I'll messgae Dragonmaster to take a look at this thread and explain some of the powers hopefully.
 
That I do not know. For Kuramon they are. Keramon, they are noted to be weaker, for Tsumemon whose the form in between, we do not know.
 
So I researched the evolutionary line and looked at all the entries and it seems that the weakness doesn't appear until Diaboromon.

A Super-Ultimate Digimon that was born when Diablomon's Babies fused in large quantities, causing a mutation. Diablomon had the ability to make many copies of itself, but they were characterized by having lesser abilities than the original possessed. However, by producing Babies in large quantities and then fusing them, it did not disperse its abilities, but instead was able to attain power greater than Diablomon by condensing them into one being. Also, Diablomon-species Digimon are special Digimon that are affiliated with neither light nor darkness. Its Special Moves are firing energy shells from its back into the sky, which fall like rain as scattered beams (Black Rain), and a destructive energy wave emitted from its gaping maw (Ultimate Flare).
Kinda like to link my sources. There you can read about Tsumemon's line directly if you so wish. Order goes Kuramon-Tsumemon-Keramon-Chrysalimon-Infermon-Diablomon/Diaboromon-Armageddemon/Armagemon.
 
Well likely enough so that they aren't as effctive in combat (like a decent deal weaker) and absorbing Data as the real deal, they never go in detail on that. Although, I don't know if Tsumemon here has that flaw in his Duplication or not.
 
Ok, next thing

Digicores are actually physical things (in the digital world and relative to being data I mean) right? The Digimon wiki says they are like the Digimon's nucleus, and that powerful Digimon like the 4 Great Sovereigns have digicores floating around their bodies, which I assume are those globes floating around them in all their art.

If Digicores are solid things, then can Tsumenon damage an soul/mind thing that is not physical? Can he mind/soul hax just by hitting the Terrarian?
 
Digicore are solid to Digital beings in the Digimon-Universe as it is just data to them. It is still a non-corporeal Mind and Soul to others. Digicores function as the everything to a Digimon, the physical form we see is more like a portective shell to keep other Digimon from attacking their mind and soul.

We have a detailed blog on Digimon Physiology here. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...on_Franchise:_The_New_Digimon_Physiology_Blog
 
I'm not convined. I read the stuff on the Digicores in your blog, but all of that still implies the Digicore is an actual physical thing that can be touched by anyone digital (and with verse equalisation that means anyone)

Kids go into the digital world right? Can they touch digicores? Do they get digicores upon entering?
 
No, verse equalisation would do that. Or at the very least it would let the person interact with the data as they could if they were data. Otherwise, the opponent wouldn't even be able to touch the Digimon, as the digimon is just data, so unless they could affect data they wouldn't be able to fight. Verse equalisation of that sort is neccessary, and if the Digicore is as physical a thing as the rest of the Digimon's body in the series, then I don't see why it would become intangible in a fight, nor do I see why Digimon interacting with what to them is a physical object means they can interact with things that aren't physical objects in other series.
 
"No, verse equalisation would do that. Or at the very least it would let the person interact with the data as they could if they were data. Otherwise, the opponent wouldn't even be able to touch the Digimon, as the digimon is just data, so unless they could affect data they wouldn't be able to fight."

Blatantly false as even in verse, when a Digimon enters the real world, their physical bodies can still be interacted with normal humans. So no, this is false.

"Verse equalisation of that sort is neccessary, and if the Digicore is as physical a thing as the rest of the Digimon's body in the series, then I don't see why it would become intangible in a fight, nor do I see why Digimon interacting with what to them is a physical object means they can interact with things that aren't physical objects in other series."

This is blatant disregard of how the series works.

I will just post this as this came up before.

"One problem with all this is a big misunderstanding of what Data is and how it relates to Real World stuff. EVERYTHING is formed from Binary Code 0s and 1s, or codes that are derived from binary. The whole constitution of a Digicore is literally a Program of 0s and 1s that constitutes the body that we know as a Digimon. Physical body, souls, minds, etc. are just data arrangements that fulfill a Digicore Programming.

The Physical Body we see of a Digimon is its protective barrier, it is an arrangement of 0s and 1s that protects the Digicore from being hit directly. In other words, it is a barrier of 0s and 1s that protects the Main Essence.

Think of a computer. In it there are several programs can have different extensions like .exe, .rar, .zip, .torrent, etc. Even though they all have different compositions and arrangements, they are all only 0s and 1s.

Even though they all have different compositions and arrangements, they are all only 0s and 1s. So unless a program has a standard Delete protection (like Protected Programs for Administrators) no matter the extension or schedule of it, it will be deleted. Matter, souls, minds, time, etc. are all only 0s and 1s. Data that performs different functions depending on the Digicore programming.

The problem of trying to analyze Digimon like any other work is to try to equate Data with a composition of the Real World, since it is not that. Data is a universal composition, it can be anything depending on their programming.

It does not have data with composition equal to matter or mind or soul, etc. Data are a universal thing, they make up everything that can exist (That is why the Real World is part of the Digital World, not the opposite because the universal contains the particular and not the particular contains the universal).

When something from the Real World is transformed into Data, depending of course on the programming that they are following, the result is simply data. When Takumi had his Mind detached from his physical body the composition of the Takumi Digital Body interacted like any kind of data and not only with Mind Data.

For the Real World there is a clear division. Mind, body and soul are different things in the Real World, their compositions are completely different. In the Digital World, all of them are just Data.

The reason the Digimon affects the mind of humans in Cyber Sleuth is not because a specific Digimon group has this power, but rather because the Digimon are naturally beings of 0s and 1s and can affect Mind Data because Mind Data is just another type of Data.

For the Digimon there really is no difference to them. There is Wireframe that protects Digicore. While Wireframe is not destroyed, Digicore can not be affected unless a Digimon has the power to bypass Wireframe. This is equivalent to the Firewall of a Digimon, it protects Digicore from being affected directly.

A human on the other hand changes from set of particular constitutions to a single universal constitution. In Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth Humans usually just send their Souls and Minds to the Network to create a Digital Body. If this digital body is destroyed then the Physical Body that is left will lose its Soul and Mind. The Digimon interacted directly with the EDEN Avatars, even though they were only bodies that the Mind Data took shape.

As Mind Data is just Data then a Hacker could control this data and thus influence their actual bodies. For this there was the Firewall, it protected the Humans from having their data affected in a free way by a hacker.

 What a Digimon does is simply break the Firewall. By doing this a hacker can freely affect the data that was previously protected. And likewise the Digimo can freely affect the actual Data of a Human Being, because the barrier that left those 0s and 1s protected from outside influence was destroyed.

"But Firewall is something physical"

This is literally proof that the correct Digimon analysis is still not being done. The idea of "Physical" in Digimon can not be used to say that something is not the mind or the soul of something. Hisyaryumon has in his hands the souls of Kinryü (Golden Dragon) and Kakuryü (Horned Dragon) and even so they are things as if they were physical objects, he even uses as balls to throw at the opponents. The Four Holy Beast have their 12 Digicores around and they are physical, Gennai even held one in the hand at Zero Two. Digimon like Skull Satamon, Skull Mammon and Candmon all have their Digimon exposed, and are totally physical. Heck, Gravimon could regenerate itself as long as its Digicore still existed. Taiki took the Digicore from Gravimon with his hands.

But that is not because Digicore does not contain the soul, it contains as well as everything that exists from a Digimon within its schedule. It turns out that the Digicore is still only 0s and 1s, and unless a Digimon has the natural ability not to be touched normally by any conventional Date then it will be affected.

And humans face the same thing against a Digimon or any naturally Digital being. As shown in Digimon Universe Appli Monsters if Humans are destroyed in the form of Data, then all their natural existence will also be destroyed (And this is said by a work that specified that everything is transformed into data, even the soul or the mind).

And that goes even outside of the Digital World. Beings like Vamdemon or Wizardmon use Magic (That's a high-level programming language, then not really something magical) in humans even with them in the Real World and even then they are affected. Vegimon was in EDEN and still managed to control humans who were in the Real World while controlling their Mental Data.

The reason why Digimon has shown to be able to control or destroy minds and souls of humans is not because they have this specific ability, but because all this to the Digimon is just another type of Data and Data interact with Data in the same way as any other type of Data unless it has protection. Heck, Pete was the soul of an animal that was caught by a Digital Wave and transformed into a Wanyamon that was touched by any other Data being within history. And we have the example of Mirei who was a Human who was sucked into a black hole created during Project Vitium, her body was destroyed, but now she exists as a data ghost within the Digital Realms and she is tangible to any Digital being. Obviously it would not be if she returned to her Physical World composition. (That's why she can not leave places like the Digital World, at least under normal conditions. The strange events in Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth that were allowing the coming of Data beings to the Real World made it possible for her to go to the Real World).

Wanting to separate different types of Data and place divisions like those in the Real World does not make sense because the Digital World is not the Real World, the Digital World is a world that transcends the Real World and everything in the Real World is actually a part of the composition of the Digital World (This still fits into the explanation of the Digital World being the equivalent of the World of Ideas).

Data is something universal (Everything is reduced to Data). Souls, matter, mind, and anything else in the Physical World are just particular things. Something Particular only affects something Particular (Physical Matter affects Physical Matter), but something Universal (Data) affect something Universal (Data).

In fact, in Digimon there are Digimon that would be like something equivalent to something of the Real World (For example MoonMille and Death-X-Mon that are for the Digimon what something Imaterial is for the Physical World), but these are examples of isolated cases within the franchise.

Based mainly on what the latest information on Digimon has come about (as in Xros Wars, Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth, Appli Monsters, Re: Digitize or Next 0rder) the structure of what is currently the Digital World and the Data is much more complete and than in the past. Obviously you will not be able to find many of these things in older works within the franchise, this is information that was developed just now."
 
Ok, that clears some stuff up. Digimon can hit souls and minds as well as physical stuff because they are made of data and data doesn't discriminate between physical things, souls and minds.

So how are we considering this fight then? Has Tsunemon entered the real world, or has the Terrarian entered the digital world? SBA would say the former, seeing as it takes place in central park.
 
This just made me realize...If we put Goku in the Digital World, he could punch minds and souls....The Digital World grants people haxes....>.>
 
Uh, which setting would have less issues associated with it? I can specify in the OP.
 
Uhhh SBA I'd think

Seeing as Tsunemon treats everything like it's data regardless of whether he's in or out, and there's no reason to give Terrarian mind destruction powers by sticking him in.
 
Anywho, I give this match to Tsumemon mostly due to his natural ability to attack the mind and soul with his attacks. Also, if need be he could make duplicates to aid him.
 
Terrarian resists soul hax. Though I forget what weapons Terrarian has at this point, so I can't argue about him any more.

How does Tsumemon normally attack?
 
Slashing the opponents with the claws on his tentacles or shooting them with dark energy. It's an agressive fighter.
 
I think because it needs to actually hit Terrarian to destroy his mind. It can't just tell him to kill himself.
 
Nothing is instataneous. So Terrar has chances to dodge. Blocking may not be the best thing considering.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
I think because it needs to actually hit Terrarian to destroy his mind. It can't just tell him to kill himself.
Click to expand...
He could, but to be blunt...he won't. Seeing as this is literally a Baby Digimon, he'd be too busy trying to kill Terrar with attacks than even remotely thinking "let me just mind control him".
 
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