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Calc Stacking in Tokyo Revengers

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@CorbinMLG
Syncornize said:
the thread is really based on not using subsonic for calc as it would be calc stacking...... subsonic speed can only be used if the context of that action or hit has strong evidence that it is subsonic. hitting someone without them being able to raise their guard is not automatically an FTE feat. A person skilled in martial arts or combat sports could do it, Without too much context I think it is at best a superhuman feat.
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Zefra3011 said:
Blitzing Osanai and Hanma is subsonic?
Is barely superhuman
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Ahh yes Hanma the guy who was able to fight Draken on equal grounds (someone who is capable of beating 100 men with weapons low diff and outpacing bullets) is considered "barley superhuman"
 
Agnaa said:
From what I've seen of it, I don't think so. We're pretty careful with what we're willing to give Subsonic over.
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Well I'll tell you the scaling chain.

Mikey>Izana> South > Kakucho>=< Senju > Taiju > Angry> Mucho > Wakasa = Benkei > Inui = Koko > Draken> Hanma.

Hanma = BOS Mikey. Hanma fought on par with BOS Mikey and he can casually block BOS Mikey's FTE kicks.

South only knew what the object thrown was after he knocked it away.

That means the speed of the umbrella is faster than your basic FTE attacks.
 
Syncornize said:
this thread is questioning supersonic + calculations, so using it as an assumption for FTE i don't find it reasonable for now. calc stacking doesn't only apply on certain speeds but only in certain "contexts"
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The thread is not questioning supersonic+ calcs exactly. It's questioning why we use FTE speeds for the following calcs. So, I am sure if someone can reason why should those speeds be used,
Agnaa said:
Fair enough if you think that, but the line we draw for assumptions on these sorts of feats is "something that humans can do". Everything else has to be derived from within that scene itself. So them having Supersonic+ feats elsewhere is irrelevant, in our eyes. They could have half a dozen FTL statements, and in a scene that doesn't have them, we'd assume them to be peak human.
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Isn't them being FTE for normal people enough to say that it's likely better to use FTE speeds rather than insanely doing them bad and using much, much slower speeds (even when even 34.3 is a very slow speed for them)?
 
Vapourrrrr said:
Ahh yes Hanma the guy who was able to fight Draken on equal grounds (someone who is capable of beating 100 men with weapons low diff) is considered "barley superhuman"
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I don't understand why stamina and strength are inherent with speed. in fact if you go and look at his stamina on this page it is peak human not even superhuman
 
I don't know why this happens every time. One day I calculated a feat for the Demon Slayer verse, and I was asked to use 0.2 seconds perception time (average human) for a literal demon upper moon.
 
Syncornize said:
I don't understand why stamina and strength are inherent with speed. in fact if you go and look at his stamina on this page it is peak human not even superhuman
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He's able to fight on equal terms with someone who outpaced bullets, why would he be any slower then subsonic
 
RoggerReggor said:
The thread is not questioning supersonic+ calcs exactly. It's questioning why we use FTE speeds for the following calcs. So, I am sure if someone can reason why should those speeds be used,

Isn't them being FTE for normal people enough to say that it's likely better to use FTE speeds rather than insanely doing them bad and using much, much slower speeds (even when even 34.3 is a very slow speed for them)?
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almost all calculations have stacking calc, so yes using calculations as an assumption is wrong, as is the reasoning of using FTE as a basis solely because they have higher feat that are being discussed at this time
 
Vapourrrrr said:
Are you cooked, Senju and other characters did it metres away from the camera or whatever, moving your hand only blurs your hand it does NOT create after images
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An After image is kinda a blury movement, I would love to be subsonic trust me but my reaction when I play League of Legends says the opposite 😓 so no you dont have to be much fast to do something like that, I can give superhuman if you want but with a subsonic speed you shouldnt even see the movement itself
 
Vapourrrrr said:
Ahh yes Hanma the guy who was able to fight Draken on equal grounds (someone who is capable of beating 100 men with weapons low diff and outpacing bullets) is considered "barley superhuman"
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Tell me a superhuman feat from draken or hanma pre black dragon
 
Agnaa said:
Yeah, because that's within the realm of what's possible for humans.
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Humans can throw objects faster than 34.3 m/s so the umbrella calculation shouldn't be problematic with all the other reasons others and I have made. I still think Mikey should be treated as always Subsonic.
 
Vapourrrrr said:
He's able to fight on equal terms with someone who outpaced bullets, why would he be any slower then subsonic
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Assuming the feat is valid he did It in the final arc and not in the first two there are yeara between the arcs
 
CorbinMLG said:
Humans can throw objects faster than 34.3 m/s so the umbrella calculation shouldn't be problematic with all the other reasons others and I have made. I still think Mikey should be treated as always Subsonic.
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It depends from which object for sure an umbrella is not much confortable to throw as a ball
 
MorrisHatesYou said:
Well I'll tell you the scaling chain.

Mikey>Izana> South > Kakucho>=< Senju > Taiju > Angry> Mucho > Wakasa = Benkei > Inui = Koko > Draken> Hanma.

Hanma = BOS Mikey. Hanma fought on par with BOS Mikey and he can casually block BOS Mikey's FTE kicks.

South only knew what the object thrown was after he knocked it away.

That means the speed of the umbrella is faster than your basic FTE attacks.
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As I said, nothing out of the scene itself matters for us. We don't assume SoL speed for characters' blows even if they scale well above a dozen FTL feats.
RoggerReggor said:
Isn't them being FTE for normal people enough to say that it's likely better to use FTE speeds rather than insanely doing them bad and using much, much slower speeds (even when even 34.3 is a very slow speed for them)?
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No. Nothing out of the scene itself matters for us. No matter how many FTE feats they have elsewhere.
CorbinMLG said:
Humans can throw objects faster than 34.3 m/s so the umbrella calculation shouldn't be problematic with all the other reasons others and I have made. I still think Mikey should be treated as always Subsonic.
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If you can find someone throwing an umbrella at 34.3 m/s, we can use that. Other objects aren't fully comparable, since different muscles can be used to throw them, there's different aerodynamics involved, and the weight is different.
 
Syncornize said:
is not a valid reason. however wanting down a human spike or superhuman is definable as not being a normal human. this reasoning is similar to what would be cacl stacking If a speed fte applied.
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@Zefra3011
I think the punch Draken gives Hanma is superhuman; it knocks him off many metres.
 
Agnaa said:
No. Nothing out of the scene itself matters for us. No matter how many FTE feats they have elsewhere.
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"Matters for us"? There are many calcs for this verse which have been existing for quite a time, including some which are for now considered to be products of "calc stacking", meaning that they were evaluated some day or the other by CGMs other than you, and I have seen one of the CGMs even ask Morris for the proofs of the characters being casually FTE.

Most of the CGMs have different opinions which somehow need to be "downgraded" even when definite reasonings are provided over why the character would use that speed.
 
RoggerReggor said:
"Matters for us"? There are many calcs for this verse which have been existing for quite a time, including some which are for now considered to be products of "calc stacking", meaning that they were evaluated some day or the other by CGMs other than you, and I have seen one of the CGMs even ask Morris for the proofs of the characters being casually FTE.

Most of the CGMs have different opinions which somehow need to be "downgraded" even when definite reasonings are provided over why the character would use that speed.
Click to expand...
The problem is that tr is not casually FTE, at best is casually superhuman
 
RoggerReggor said:
"Matters for us"? There are many calcs for this verse which have been existing for quite a time, including some which are for now considered to be products of "calc stacking", meaning that they were evaluated some day or the other by CGMs other than you, and I have seen one of the CGMs even ask Morris for the proofs of the characters being casually FTE.

Most of the CGMs have different opinions which somehow need to be "downgraded" even when definite reasonings are provided over why the character would use that speed.
Click to expand...
Some of which have expressed regret over accepting such calcs.

And, the page on Calc Stacking agrees with me:
Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar.
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This usually occurs if a feat is quantified per a rule of thumb instead of precisely calculated. A typical example would be a character dodging a bullet from a short distance being ranked as "Supersonic" and then using that ranking to calculate the speed of another character, whose speed one can compare to the former in some feat.

While it is acceptable to rank a character by such a self-evident feat without a calculation, one should keep in mind that the unwritten calculation is only skipped due to being trivial, but is still the justification for the ranking. Hence calc stacking will still be an issue for such feats.
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Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that.
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You're assuming an exception for Subsonic, despite that being outside of the human range, which isn't substantiated anywhere.
Zefra3011 said:
The problem is that tr is not casually FTE, at best is casually superhuman
Click to expand...
That's not the problem.
 
Zefra3011 said:
Tell me a superhuman feat from draken or hanma pre black dragon
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You have not seen Tokyo revengers

.Draken beat 10 people in an instant
.Draken sent Hanma flying 10+ metres with a punch
.Draken beat 30+ people as a warmup despite being hit with metal pipes and baseball bats
.Hanma tanked getting sent flying and got up with no real injuries
.Hanma caught a kick from Mikey
.Hanma threw Mikey effortlessly
.Hanma is stronger then Baji who can create craters in walls
There are many more, these are just off the top of my head
 
Agnaa said:
Some of which have expressed regret over accepting such calcs.

And, the page on Calc Stacking agrees with me:



You're assuming an exception for Subsonic, despite that being outside of the human range, which isn't substantiated anywhere.
Click to expand...
If that's the case, then I wouldn't try to argue for now, unless I get some definitive thing over my thinking. I will side with you for now.

And also, I have got a lot of work damn.
 
I don't get the big problem here

A javeline throw is 31.3 m/s, why is it so hard for you guys to wrap your head around the fact that Senju, a superhuman character can't throw 3 m/s faster then an athlete who isn't superhuman...
 
Vapourrrrr said:
I don't get the big problem here

A javeline throw is 31.3 m/s, why is it so hard for you guys to wrap your head around the fact that Senju, a superhuman character can't throw 3 m/s faster then an athlete who isn't superhuman...
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This is just an assumption not enough to prove FTE as what you call random FTE feats are feasible within human limits
 
If this thread reaches a positive conclusion, it would be best for Morris to try doing what I suggested in a comment on the umbrella calc. The speed would likely reduce by 70 to 80 m/s, not that it causes any much problem lol.
 
Syncornize said:
This is just an assumption not enough to prove FTE as what you call random FTE feats are feasible within human limits
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Dude, if you can move your body so fast you create an after image, and if you can move so fast that your ARM not your hand from multiple metres away turns into a blur I will no longer debate

I hate the "hand" argument because you move it close to your eye and its also a small surface, a human can't possibly move there WHOLE arm so fast it creates motion blurr, stupid argument imo
 
Vapourrrrr said:
You have not seen Tokyo revengers

.Draken beat 10 people in an instant
.Draken sent Hanma flying 10+ metres with a punch
.Draken beat 30+ people as a warmup despite being hit with metal pipes and baseball bats
.Hanma tanked getting sent flying and got up with no real injuries
.Hanma caught a kick from Mikey
.Hanma threw Mikey effortlessly
.Hanma is stronger then Baji who can create craters in walls
There are many more, these are just off the top of my head
Click to expand...
Yeah but which of these is above superhuman in SPEED
 
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