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Ultima_Reality

Ultima_Reality

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  • BluudyManikin777
    Sup, I was wondering; if a character has the same number of dimensions within their existence as the temporal dimension of the verse, would that count as Immeasurable speed?
    View previous comments…
    BluudyManikin777
    BluudyManikin777
    bump
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Hm. Forgot about this post. Sorry for that.

    So if a character’s existence is 5D, and the temporal dimension of the verse is explicitly 5D as well, is that Immeasurable? I mean, since this example character has 5 dimensions in its physiology, it would automatically be assumed it can move along 5 dimensional axes right?
    Click to expand...
    Not necessarily, no, since, again, those 5 dimensions in which they exist could be fully spatial, too, and thus be bound by a a single time dimension, just like lower-dimensional beings, thus making them subject to S = D/T. It's a different story if they explicitly exist directly in the time axis and can move through it at will, but this would need a direct statement, and wouldn't be the default assumption.
    BluudyManikin777
    BluudyManikin777
    So basically, having the same number of dimensions in one’s own physiology as a temporal dimension is Immeasurable, right? I kept getting told that having a certain number of dimensions doesn’t mean the character in question can move along those same number of dimensional axes. It really made no sense, because we as 3D beings literally move freely in 3 dimensions just by existing
    Dagoth_OwO
    Hi Ultima, could you give your opinion on this thread. To give a brief summary - a very certain demon fellow we know and love, absorbed and physically merged himself with a 4-D black hole and it became an actual part/extension of his physical being, so wouldn't this count as Higher-Dimensional Existence?
    Rabbit2002
    Hi Ultima
    Sorry for these very stupid questions
    Is it possible for an infinite number of Tier 0 characters to exist in a certain verse? And even with enough evidence to prove they are indeed Tier 0 would it be accepted ?(I should have posted this to QA, but this is asking for your opinion). Even if these characters have only scaling, because they lack hax (same as Xeno goku but tier 0) or non smurf and glass canon (physically 10B or 10A)?
    And this verse is not a joke, fanfic or made up just for the sake of Debate and power bullshit like the Suggsverse (something on the wiki, be it Dragon ball or whatever)
    Emirp sumitpo
    Emirp sumitpo
    I'm not ultima but the Cthulhu mythos has an infinite amount of tier 0s via the archetypes, although that might change with the revision
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    It is possible, yeah.
    Rabbit2002
    Hi ultima, sorry if this bothers you
    It's just that I have three questions regarding the Tiering system which are
    1. Destroy Aleph 2 universes as Low-1A or Low-1C (6D). Note that context and verse are the Set of real numbers and any other set whose cardinal is 2^Aleph 0 is greater than aleph 1 (unknown)
    2. If a verse has Higher realms/planes of existence and in the lowest plane of existence already contains both 3D universes and 2D pocket universes is a cross section of 3D. So is the difference between lower and higher planes of existence greater than the difference between dimensions? If so, what is their tier?
    3. As for the Composite hierarchy and the distinction between fiction and reality, if the entities in the Higher layer consider the stories or realities of the Lower layer to be nothing more than just fiction and tiny dimensions, even consider the difference between the sizes of each of them to be non-existent, so any story from finite size and setting of an ordinary person's life to the entire infinite set of multiverses (each is 2A) is the same, differ only in complexity. The "tiny dimensions" differ only in scale for entities in the higher layer in terms of numbers (i.e. 2 stories > 1 story regardless of the size and spacetime of the two sides), and even that distinction is even more meaningless if there is a story that contains all of them. So does each story have a Low-1C level in terms of nature? And the higher layer entity is 6D or just 5D? Also, this has to do with a verse that you made a revision (Supernatural)
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Destroy Aleph 2 universes as Low-1A or Low-1C (6D). Note that context and verse are the Set of real numbers and any other set whose cardinal is 2^Aleph 0 is greater than aleph 1 (unknown)
    Click to expand...
    Hard to say here, since Low 1-A is specifically supposed to be a space of dimension 2^aleph-0, which we just so happen to equate to aleph-1 by assuming the Continuum Hypothesis to be true, for simplicity's sake. If we just don't know if aleph-2 is equal to or larger than the cardinality of the continuum under the system which the verse presents, it's pretty complicated to tier. Closest thing I can think of would be an absurdly high level of 2-A, since Low 1-C is likewise supposed to be reached by a set of universes with cardinality 2^aleph-0, too.

    If a verse has Higher realms/planes of existence and in the lowest plane of existence already contains both 3D universes and 2D pocket universes is a cross section of 3D. So is the difference between lower and higher planes of existence greater than the difference between dimensions?
    Click to expand...
    Not necessarily, no, since, in this case, we'd just scale that above the size of the largest construct shown to be contained in the lower plane in question. So, a realm that stands immediately above it would just be Low 2-C with optimal assumptions.

    As for the Composite hierarchy and the distinction between fiction and reality, if the entities in the Higher layer consider the stories or realities of the Lower layer to be nothing more than just fiction and tiny dimensions, even consider the difference between the sizes of each of them to be non-existent, so any story from finite size and setting of an ordinary person's life to the entire infinite set of multiverses (each is 2A) is the same, differ only in complexity.
    Click to expand...
    Not necessarily, no, unless there's more context to that difference: If, say, the difference between a higher layer and a lower one is explicitly greater than the difference between higher and lower-dimensional spaces, then it can be higher, yeah.
    Cosmic_King_of_SAO
    Hey, Ultima.
    If you don't mind me asking, is it possible to surpass the Mathiverse?
    I know you might be busy so take your time to answer.
    liluzivert
    Yo Ultima, do you think this can qualify for tier 1?
    View previous comments…
    liluzivert
    liluzivert
    Also, would you also get immeasurable for surpassing space and time?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Also, would you also get immeasurable for surpassing space and time?
    Click to expand...
    I'm not too sure about that, honestly. While, yes, the world which Mario accessed through Cutout is described as transcending the boundaries of space and time, the perspective which he accesses while using the ability seems to be purely spatial, and doesn't seem to include the temporal part of the universe at all, seeing as he clearly isn't witnessing past and future events in the timeline while using it.

    This connects to my uncertainties regarding Low 1-C, too. Is there anything reinforcing the statement on spacetime transcendence here?
    liluzivert
    liluzivert
    Actually yes. 4D would actually contradict the idea of it being a spatial dimension superior to time. If they wanted to imply that he was 4D, they would have said he's either crossing space time or going outside of it, but they use the specific kanji "cho" to say he is completely superior. It's clear they are referring to spatial dimensions (considering it's constant throughout the series), so it would be odd that Mario is stated to be superior to time and space dimensionally without actually being more than it.

    I was gonna add this to my blog, but I think a better interpretation of 5D is Mario viewing his entire world as a unrealistic sheet as opposed to a real place. A reality-fiction difference. Seeing as how it falls down on the screen for him to edit, as well as the fact that just cutting spacetime like paper specifically is unrealistic (even in this series.)

    The idea that it's flat too is something i kinda want to drop, because it seems confusing to people, but I'd also argue that 4D wouldn't work there either, if he was 4D then he would be able to see his timeline as space. It actually makes no sense for him to view a world that is a 4D space time continuum and then see the entire thing as flat. If he was going to a different 4D universe without viewing his world then I could see it, but here, seeing the entire world as flat as opposed to seeing time as a space means that 4D doesn't really work here.

    As a whole though, there's also multiple statements of the same "transcend time and space, transcend dimensions". And interdimensional range gets contradicted by both statements and visuals.
    Oliver_de_jesus
    hey Ultima, is this maybe Doctor who tier 1 statement

    Next up, we have the fact that pi is also a transcendental number. The concept of a transcendental number is quite a modern one given that it was only first defined in the 18th Century by a well-known mathematician called Leonard Euler (who incidentally also has an irrational number named after him – the number e).
    Click to expand...

    Transcendental numbers are briefly mentioned in a Big Finish Main Range audio drama starring the Sixth Doctor called …ish (2002), written by Phil Pascoe, who incidentally has also recently published The Black Archive entry on the Sixth Doctor serial Timelash. The script itself is quite a verbose one and is sure to appeal to any budding lexicographers as the plot itself involves a character trying to discover the ‘Omniverbum’, a word that is infinitely long and transcends all meaning. Anyone who uncovers its existence would then cease to exist as they fall victim to, and I mean this quite precisely, a literal black hole. However, Phil’s script rather unfortunately gets the definition… not quite correct. Here’s what one of the characters states near the beginning of Part Three:
    Click to expand...
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Late, but, if input is still needed: No. Transcendental numbers aren't proof of Tier 1 on their own, if that's what you're asking about.
    Oliver_de_jesus
    Oliver_de_jesus
    Thanks for your time
    Peptocoptr27
    You missed a very important detail in this thread that completely puts Low 1-C Kirby into perspective. People are starting to agree with it more and more.
    Can you come back to the thread and check this out please? No hurry though.
    Rabbit2002
    Hi ultima
    Two questions about Higher dimensions of time that I hope you can answer for me
    1/ A "large" timeline containing both versions of the current timeline and the erased timeline (because someone rewind time in that timeline to create the current timeline or something that erased it) as those things exist in points/periods of time already exists on that "big" timeline. So is this large timeline eligible for Higher temporal dimension and L1C ?
    2/ A world where all timelines and all of Their past/future (The flow of time) gathers as its normal space or something on it, so doing heavy damage in this world will destroy all those timelines and All Rifts of time (which are Literally rifts of time and also isolated Spacetime/history) regardless of size from more than one planet to an entire 2A multiverse always appear in this world as Finite spheres in space (not its portals, but the literal Rifts themselves) and things that take time to recover (ex: Dragon balls in the DB) can all be used intermittently customary in this World for the reasons mentioned above. So is this world a Higher temporal dimension and eligible for L1C?
    Xearsay
    Hello Ultima. I was wondering, do these two scans justify higher dimensions within DC having a reality to fiction difference over the lower?

    The first scan features Allen Adam comparing how our universe appears from a higher dimensional perspective to how we see a comic book. Within the analogy he compares the perception of the universe to being flat like a comic book, and with moving through time being similar to flipping through comic book pages.
    Scan 1

    The second scan features a group sixth dimensional beings called the Cathexis who see the lower reality across flat screens.
    Scan 2
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    I'd say so, yeah. Captain Adam stating a higher-dimensional being could pick up a lower-dimensional continuum like a comicbook filled with weightless drawings is as blatant as you can get in that regard.
    Xearsay
    Xearsay
    Ok, thank you.
    InfiniteCosmology
    Hello sir, sorry if I am disturbing you at this hour, can you tell me if a huge expanse 'X' is composed of 99+ timelines (each containing countless number of universes and on a much higher level of existence than the previous one), then will the expanse 'X' shall qualify as a low 1C structure or a 2B structure?
    Feel free to answer this question at anytime you want. It will be a huge help. Thank you.
    Grand_Saver_Ritsuka
    Hey ultima, i have a question. If a verse has a mahlo cardinal number of layers stacked, and each layer sees the lower layer as fiction, what tier is it?
    • Like
    Reactions: InfiniteCosmology
    View previous comments…
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Transcending the concept of dimensions is a statement whose tier depends on what the verse has demonstrated. We don't usually include higher cardinals in them, since they tend to exceed the syntax of the universe of sets in which lower ones are defined, and thus need to have their existence declared as a separate axiom. So, we usually just restrict it to 1-A or so. High 1-A if the verse entertains the notion of spaces with dimension 2^2^2-aleph-0 and onwards.
    Grand_Saver_Ritsuka
    Grand_Saver_Ritsuka
    Then, if a verse has shown a mahlo cardinal number of spatial dimensions, and THEN a statement saying saying "this character transcends the concept of dimensions" That will qualify for tier 0, correct?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Yeah, pretty much.
    Comicgyal
    Hey Ultima, can I ask you a question about universal space times? It’s being brought up in a thread, and is stopping progress. Only if you’re free, if not thanks anyways.
    View previous comments…
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Sure, ask away.
    Comicgyal
    Comicgyal
    Thanks, the standards for it are still a bit confusing to me, but I think I’ve figured some stuff out.

    Anyways thanks to our translator, we’ve been able to get this statement from Bayonettas guidebook:

    “Aesir possessed the power of being an "observer of history", and was said to live in a dimension different from ours, observing history from a perspective that transcends time and space, where multiple possibilities overlap simultaneously.”

    I know a statement saying a character transcends time and space isn’t enough, but it’s a small start given what the quote is referring to. Since the dimension exists outside of their space time, and exists above it.

    So what other pieces am I missing exactly, to make the argument more sound?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Late again, but, whatever.

    In any case, to prove Low 1-C, you'd at least have to show that the dimension in question exceeds the spacetime continuum in some way, instead of just remaining outside of it, as you obviously can exist apart from some structure without being larger than it. The Tiering System FAQ page elaborates a bit on that, so, you could probably check it out.

    Without more context, this statement is just Cosmic Awareness, from what I gather, given that it doesn't seem to be talking about some superior state of being which Aesir exists in, but just to some ability that allows him to perceive the timeline as a monolith and therefore observe all of history, instead of having his point of view restricted to individual moments in time.
    Rabbit2002
    Hi Ultima, a question regarding the latest SCP CRT
    Does an infinite number of multiverses (infinite number of universes in each multiverse) qualify for higher tiers like L1C if Verse treats it to be really infinitely larger than the Single infinite multiverse as finite objects? Do the same with larger sets qualify for higher tiers? Example: Epislon zero universes will be which Tier? (note they have been treated as Truly Greater than the lower Ordinal numbers as comparison between finite objects insted normal countably infinite sets)
    View previous comments…
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Why is it just higher level 2A? I mean not that the FAQ stated that any difference in AP at 2A should be Uncountably infinite and whether this does not have to blur the boundary between Above baseline 2A and Low-1C when both are mandatory. uncountably infinite larger than 2A baseline? Why would we treat Space to contain an infinite multiverse and claim the "transcendent" structure it contains as solid L1C like Blazblue instead of these instances? Is there an explanation for this (some examples include DND and SCP)
    Click to expand...

    Yeah, to clarify: The blurb you've quoted isn't really referring to AP differences within 2-A, but AP differences in general; there is no such thing as "uncountably infinitely above baseline 2-A" in the Tiering System, because that's just what Low 1-C is, at the minimum.

    Assuming there are two layers according to the composite hierarchy, the upper layer not only considers the lower layer (containing the Low-1A cosmology) as fiction but also transcends it to the point of any comparative concept like "stronger" and " weaker "is meaningless and cannot be applied. Will this grant Higher Layer H1A?
    Click to expand...

    Not on its own, no.

    Is there a Cardinal or Ordinal number corresponding to Tier 0 or higher than the H1A baseline?
    Click to expand...
    That'd be a Mahlo Cardinal, as it currently stands. But, I suppose you could also see Tier 0 as being just a proper class defined within the framework of a set theory in which the existence of inaccessible cardinals is included as an axiom.
    Rabbit2002
    Rabbit2002
    Hi can I ask you a question if the Set of real numbers/C is not equal to Aleph 1 but instead is equal to or much greater than Aleph numbers greater than Aleph 1 like Paul Cohen's axiom. So are C number of universes L1C or L1A or even 1A+ ? If it's L1C does this devalue the other Alephs? (aka Aleph 1 universes is still 2A but much higher than baseline)
    "
    "A point of view which the author [Cohen] feels may eventually come to be accepted is that CH is obviously false. The main reason one accepts the axiom of infinity is probably that we feel it absurd to think that the process of adding only one set at a time can exhaust the entire universe. Similarly with the higher axioms of infinity. Now {\displaystyle \aleph _{1}}
    \aleph _{1}
    is the cardinality of the set of countable ordinals, and this is merely a special and the simplest way of generating a higher cardinal. The set {\displaystyle C}
    C
    [the continuum] is, in contrast, generated by a totally new and more powerful principle, namely the power set axiom. It is unreasonable to expect that any description of a larger cardinal which attempts to build up that cardinal from ideas deriving from the replacement axiom can ever reach {\displaystyle C}
    C
    .

    Thus {\displaystyle C}
    C
    is greater than {\displaystyle \aleph _{n},\aleph _{\omega },\aleph _{a}}
    \aleph_n, \aleph_\omega, \aleph_a
    , where {\displaystyle a=\aleph _{\omega }}
    a = \aleph_\omega
    , etc. This point of view regards {\displaystyle C}
    C
    as an incredibly rich set given to us by one bold new axiom, which can never be approached by any piecemeal process of construction. Perhaps later generations will see the problem more clearly and express themselves more eloquently."

    Paul Cohen - Wikipedia

    en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
    Rabbit2002
    Rabbit2002
    Some additions: I'm asking this isn't just an assumption, it's related to something like SCP
    This quote has been considered L1A, but I think it could be higher due to the use of The Real Space which heavily implies is the set of real numbers and also contain uncountable infinite number of Aleph numbers (Aleph0, Aleph 1, Aleph2,...)
    "Unfortunately, the world is not dynamic. Everything's already over, I've already read it. All of this? It's just going through the motions. This is just a tiny subset of the world at large. I'd call it the 'real' word, but it's just as real as we are in here. The larger space that we're in… much larger, in fact, uncountably infinite expanses in uncountably infinite dimensions… we fill that space. And yet, here, we're discretised. Collapsed into words and nothing more, even if we're something so much greater.

    See, sometimes the infinite can be reduced to something simpler. Look here: ℵ0 and ℵ1 and ℵ2 and so on. Simple, yes, but they can each contain the world. You can glimpse it, if you look hard enough. Just breathe in, breathe out. Think about infinity. Not just countable, but uncountable, and the dimension of it goes up into uncountability too. If you think you've really understood it, you aren't thinking hard enough. Sure, zoom past the pitstops. 5, 23, 3333. They're all beautiful, but so horrendously finite. Fly past it all and keep going and going. Minds have died wishing for a fraction of what I can see. So breathe slowly, and think about it.

    Really think about it, and the world seems like nothing.

    I hope you've been paying attention."
    Teezar
    Hey ultima.
    They are statements of parallel worlds and infinite dimensions in a verse/boundless dimensions was also stated.
    And time again the verse is stated to have an infinity of dimensions.
    The writer of this stated all universe have infinite higher dimensions.
    Another time,its stated as infinity of dimensions...worlds beyond ...worlds beyond worlds.
    Another scan says they are innumerable dimensions in the universe.
    Which the writer says are higher dimensions.

    Another scan says all things are layered on themselves endlessly,and perception twist around it's own axis until it is blinded by .fullness,crippled by infinite repetition.

    the context of the bold ones depends on the context once you see the scans.

    Sorry about my bad English tho.

    But I want you to help me scale this cosmology please.
    Gohanblanco217
    Hey Ultima I heard that Higher layers of existence are infinitely higher then the Lower layers of existence based on higher infinites from set theory right? Tho I still don't understand isn't this basically the same thing as Infinite x infinite = infinite (aleph null)? Like how does it increase your Cardinality exactly? Can you give me a full explanation?
    Rabbit2002
    Hello Ultima, a question

    If a universe is declared a Higher dimension (regardless of whether it refers directly to a actually higher dimension of space, I mean a Higher Plane of existence, not a metaphor or a Flowery language for something like advanced. tech or similar) to explain the role it serves as the "interdimensional highway" which allows access to all universes of the lower dimension that threaten all existence, while also containing those universes (countless possibly infinite) in the form of much smaller finite objects like ordinary planets and trivialize it to the extent that it can be destroyed from there like normal planets instead of special pocket universes or similiar , besides it is even inaccessible by people who can access everywhere of space and time, including coutless possibly infinite universes and everywhere of it, then they are even reach further on "dimensions beyond their grasp before" and The place/realm transcendent and separate from space and time
    Would that Universe qualify for Low-1C, and the "dimensions beyond their grasp" I mentioned too?
    TheQuirkyBoy
    Howdy there! Sorry if I’m disturbing you at this hour. I’m sure you are busy currently, but when you have the chance, could you check out this CRT? Your input will prove to be most beneficial to the entire thing, thank you now!
    Amakasu
    Hey, I know dc is one of you Verses, so those Dimensions Rama Kushna talked about right? Are those spatial dimensions?
    ThePirateKing777
    Hello Ultima! Great work on the Cthulhu Mythos revisions but I have a couple concerns.

    So is the family tree still relevant? The one a Lovecraft drew up charting his and fellow writer Clark Ashton Smith's (a friend of his who jokingly claimed descent from Jupiter) shared descent from Azathoth, through Lovecraft's creation Nyarlathotep and Clark-Smith's Tsathoggua, respectively?

    I also wish to know if the works of other writers count in the Cthulhu mythos cosmology. (August Derleth and Ramsey Campbell are two examples.)

    if so I may have a few information on Azathoth and The mythos Cosmology worth hearing.
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    The current profiles are mostly restricted to the things written by Lovecraft's personal circle of friends. Derleth is an exception, since his version of the Mythos paint a completely different picture of it, and severely contradict basically everything Lovecraft wrote, at least when it comes to the higher parts of the setting.
    Planck69
    Hey Ultima. The Dragon Ball thread actually made me think about something so I'd like to ask a question.

    Is it actually possible for an infinite expanse to have an edge or would the presence of an edge contradict it being infinite in the first place?
    Megaraptor149
    Hello i have question

    'But don't you define a god as something that's infinite?
    How can an infinite thing be smaller than infinity?"
    'An infinite set may be contained within an infinite set.
    An infinite set may contain an infinity of infinite subsets."

    Is this Low 1-A?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    What they're referring to is in principle very clear here, but the lack of elaboration by the text makes the statement a lot more ambiguous: It could either be referring to higher-dimensional spaces ranging from Low 2-C to High 1-B, or to sets of different cardinalities altogether, which would be 1-A+ instead. Without more evidence, we assume the former.
    Megaraptor149
    Megaraptor149
    It's something like similar higher dimensionality
    Delta333
    Hi Ultima,I have a question about tier 1 and since you're expert about it,I think I should ask you for clarification
    Can a tier 2 character interact with tier 1 character if they fight in the same place due to SBA condition?Given that this tier 2 character is non-smurf and tier 1 character is not omnipresent and can't perceive tier 2 character as fiction
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    If they are both physically lower-dimensional and only have Tier 2 and Tier 1 power, respectively, then, yeah.
    Delta333
    Delta333
    thanks for answering me,so if tier 1 character is not physically lower dimensional,that tier 2 character will not interact with it even they're in same place?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Yeah. The Tier 1 character would be just too large to exist within the same space as the Tier 2 character.
    Dagoth_OwO
    Hi Ultima, I heard you are an expert on dimensions. I was wondering, would a black hole that can devour even space-time itself be considered a 4th dimensional black hole? From what I've understood normal black holes are a regions/curvatures in space-time (could be wrong tho lol) but they can't really devour the universe itself. If a black hole can devour space-time itself would that black hole be considered to be of a higher dimension or 4D since it could just suck up the entire timeline?
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