• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

Dust_Collector said:
Samus watching MMX constantly get upgraded while she got dunked from star level and MFTL+ to country level and sub-relativistic

148-1481904_sad-samus-metroid-memes.png
Click to expand...
Poor Samus…
 
Dust_Collector said:
lol the Ghost Rider vs Galactus comic that came out today had Galactus resisting the Penance Stare because he didn't regret killing anyone or feel any guilt, that's gonna spark some fun debates


Samus watching MMX constantly get upgraded while she got dunked from star level and MFTL+ to country level and sub-relativistic

148-1481904_sad-samus-metroid-memes.png
Click to expand...
funny how she loses a good chunk of her mu now outside boba fett and chief
 
Dust_Collector said:
lol the Ghost Rider vs Galactus comic that came out today had Galactus resisting the Penance Stare because he didn't regret killing anyone or feel any guilt, that's gonna spark some fun debates
Click to expand...
Ok Marvel STILL doesn't know how they're own move works. Ok, sure whatever. The Penance Stare shouldn't work on half of the supervillains in existence I guess.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Click to expand...


Maverick_Zero_X said:
Writers keep forgetting how the Penance Stare works 💀
Click to expand...
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
I like how even Ghost Rider is like "That's not how the god damn ability works, this is some plot armor bullshit."
Click to expand...
Hunterzillas said:
Ok Marvel STILL doesn't know how they're own move works. Ok, sure whatever. The Penance Stare shouldn't work on half of the supervillains in existence I guess.
Click to expand...
wq5d1j8tsy4f1.jpeg

seriously its 2025 and yet folks dont get how it works
 
I wonder if Death Battle is gonna use models from Marvel Rivals or the new Marvel fighting game for future Marvel episodes. I'd imagine they would have done so for Black Widow vs Widowmaker if it were done today or with Peni vs Dva.

Imagine if Obi-Wan vs. Kakashi were done now with Fortnite models, lol.
 
Doggo said:
I wonder if Death Battle is gonna use models from Marvel Rivals or the new Marvel fighting game for future Marvel episodes. I'd imagine they would have done so for Black Widow vs Widowmaker if it were done today or with Peni vs Dva.

Imagine if Obi-Wan vs. Kakashi were done now with Fortnite models, lol.
Click to expand...
Case by case depending on the mu and which models would match the opponent
 
Doggo said:
I wonder if Death Battle is gonna use models from Marvel Rivals or the new Marvel fighting game for future Marvel episodes. I'd imagine they would have done so for Black Widow vs Widowmaker if it were done today or with Peni vs Dva.

Imagine if Obi-Wan vs. Kakashi were done now with Fortnite models, lol.
Click to expand...
At most I could see them using Robbie's since he's never had a quality model before but that's it
 
TMaakkonen said:
Unironically, what was the original intention of Penance Stare? Did they add the "you feel any pain no matter what" in the original first run or after by other writers?
Click to expand...
It was after. Like the episode mentioned, it was first used by Danny Ketch in the 90s, much after Blaze's debut in '72. At that point, it was a "you feel pain for your sins" and it still is, it's just been mishandled and badly written by various writers like the infamous occasion in that 2014 Thunderbolts run that served to glaze Punisher or when Carol resisted Robbie's.

Fun fact though: the moment in the F4 show where it works on Galactus was actually a rewrite of when Strange used a spell on him in the comics to achieve the same thing- so really there's no defense for why it didn't work here, just another jobber moment.
 
Been a little while since I posted an update to my Xeno JRPG MU charts, so...

81a9931f8ad6dac3601e4eaeaae2dac77986482b.png


LAST TIME ON COMMON SENSE SOAPBOX:
Click to expand...
Joycap said:
"Babe, wake up, new 5PM Joycap Xeno JPRG MU charts just dropped:"

12e511ac368c16637ba1f827c842f0f533ef23a7.png




This one is... largely a hotpatch, so no big pitches to speak of. Let's list off the changes:
  • The overhaul on Fei Fong Wong's MUs has been long overdue, what with Simon vs Kyle dropping in around a week. Korra I mentioned briefly when I binged TLOK (spirits within, adopted teachers... that sort of thing), and I am now willing to acknowledge Shinji Ikari for his MUs too (I don't recall who bought up Fei vs Shinji... I THINK it was @Loh67867 or @JoshDoshMosh - feel free to correct me?). But the big one here is Serph from DDS. While I don't like the DDS duology that much, I do think that these two have the right connections (former scientists, endless faction wars, betrothed up in space etc.), as well as hax making this MU at least semi-debateable. While it wouldn't be my first pitch for a Xeno MU (obviously...), I do think it has enough to chew on for others.
  • Krelian's main MU is now Karen Travers, although as far as Karen's MUs in general... that's at least disputed. The main relations here are 'versions from different timelines' (Karen Travers being a time traveller, and Krelian having as many incarnations as Fei does)-turned science buffs that basically turned traitor on their main states (what with Karen declaring war on New Himuka for Seiran, and Krelian rather infamously 'wanting to create God' after feeling betrayed by same).
  • Sans is under Dickson's MUs for reasons touched upon here.
  • Bewear vs Territorial Rotbart... this is the closest MU on this list to being an actual pitch (gag MU as it may be), and given that Machamp's rundown during his MU with Goro was sort of like a nature documentary, I can imagine same being done for both the Gogol AND Bewear species. Anime's gag Bewear that bails Team Rocket out against their will would be cited most here btw.
  • The MU's of Cross have been overhauled similar to Fei's - the most notable MU being Tadano Hitonari from SJ (fainted soldiers/travellers repairing some kind of 'ship', and eventually coming across the god tiers of a fallen land). Rookie from Sonic Forces is still there because I think swinging vs Skells is good animation potential, and also Robin is there because there's better places to take a nap than in a pod, y'know?
  • Ga Jairg MUs... I still have no clue what I'm doing with his spreads that aren't ones he shares with Bartholemew Fatima and Rico, but Shohei Yakumo (specifically his Vengeance incarnation) at least has the advantage of making this a decent 2v2 with Nuwa and Ga Buidhe in the picture. The main relation is around Yakumo being this sort of dark subversion of how Ga Jairg pulled out on the Ganglion, as Yakumo is called out on the double standard of him using demons for his own ends true neutral is still a glorified chaos ending don't @ me.
  • Mikhail now has Luka Redgrave as his singular listed MU. Luka is kinda interesting after the glowup he got in Bayonetta 3 (I've been reading up on his character, and the Bayonetta trilogy is something I need to binge, even after playing 1 a long time back, and 2 back in 2018 or so). The relations here being how Luka investigates the death of his dad, similar to how Mikhail joins Jin and Torna after what happened with Mythra inadvertently getting Milton killed when holding out on Malos. Luka's MU to beat here is Isshin Kurosaki, what with the whole 'MC's accidentally getting their parental figures killed by assumed astral forces' thing, and both being... himbos? With unassuming power. Both have Animation and banter potential, Luka vs Isshin has slightly more substantiated links, but Mikhail has more debatable scaling if you're like @JoshSSJGod or @CloverDragon03 - and you're that desperate to wank 2 as a verse (/sns). Also I'm striking Qrow off as an MU, because while I do think that fight has animation and banter potential, the Champion's poll proves that even independent DBa is still on good standing with current CRWBY (what with Ruby vs Maka being a thing), and I REALLY don't want to give Jason Liebrecht the time of day (zero points for guessing why... or I'll deport y'all to Italy). Jaune Arc is scrubbed from Reyn's MUs for a similar reason btw.
Aaaand... that's all she wrote for now, folks!
Until next time.
Click to expand...

Yep, we've got a LOT to cover...
So, what's changed, exactly?

Singular(s) - Cleaned and Renovated:
  • As someone who is not a DC buff by any stretch, finding Bizzaro as a matchup for Id was a pleasant surprise (I was in Rappter's Discord when the name came up in one of the MU suggestion channels). Both appear to be a riff on a certain mental deficiency (Id being DiD for Fei, and Bizzaro either being general trauma, or lack of social cues, depending on the interpretation you go with). It's going to feel a bit odd using gigawanked Zohar scaling for Id, but I think I can work with it should the day ever come.
  • chaos has been cleaned so that Makoto Yuki is now his singular best MU (I'm aware people are gunning for Archie Sonic again, and while I don't outright hate that MU... you know how I'd argue this). Loki probably has better, and by our standards, he doesn't quite have the correct scaling for... some reason (Loptr does, though), so I'm going to have to binge the Bayonetta games before I can say for certain if he should come back to these charts.
  • Jin Uzuki vs Kittan Bachika is the Xeno vs GL MU I was talking about after Simon's win vs Kyle, and has been discussed here.
  • I'm currently working through all material related to Zone of the Enders, which is why Pellegri has Viola (ZotE1/OVA) as her singular MU of choice. While I don't imagine Pellegri getting her own episode, as she's more of a circumstance under Margulis's MUs (more on him later), what Viola has (the dead or 'strained behaviour' ex (see Jin and Radium for more information), as well as the loaning of mechs before the main villains basically snatch them away and make them circumstances in their afterlife) makes her at least comfortable here. Stat gap is a bit strained if you buy into T1 Pellegri, but not every MU needs to be close ig.
  • Yuriev is now reduced to Dr. Finitevus, and has de-facto been so for a while now. I think I've just accepted that Bubuki Buranki MUs are basically never happening (even if I think Salem vs Reoko slaps).
  • Canaan vs Maya Amano... now here's a fun one. Even as someone who came out of a playthrough of P2IS thinking it was kinda mid (sorry @JoshDoshMosh...) and is willing to hold off on a playthrough of Eternal Punishment, I think what makes this MU quite striking is A) the personality contrasts a la Gladion vs Tora, and B) how both have these sort of 'hidden in plain sight' naming conventions that makes them linchpins in villain plots despite being protagonists, and even their behaviour at differing, far-flung points in time (what with Canaan being Lactis, a double agent for VECTOR, Scientia, and what remained of Jan Sauer's crew, whilst being a Realian from 120+ years prior to the main Xenosaga Trilogy's events handling the Canaan Program, and witnessing Jan commit suicide whilst his new wife and stepson are killed right in front of him, earstwhile Maya being 'the Maian Oracle' (I went with the PS1 fan translation, so if that's technically off, I'm sorry), and an analogue for the blood that poured endlessly from Christ when he was killed, with similar happening to her when fighting actual Hitler (I am not joking...), when a vision of Ms. Ideal (who had already gone nuts when coming across the Bolontiku within the core of Xibalba) cuts her down for it, before Tatsuya etc. migrate to the new timeline, Maya included). Maya may not have a Mech, but she more than has the scaling... even if a version of this that works in her incompetence with vehicles she has no business using could be funny (Robin Goodfellow can attest):
ecce3d72dc2fb41bd24b8bf5eb59c003c34e859f.png

(Actual line from the game, btw)

Now... Y'all know how I was asking for Lin Lee Koo MUs a while back?
Joycap said:
Anyway, I have to tap out for the night - but there's something I'd like to ask y'all for when I get up in the morning:

See, I've been thinking about my Xeno JRPG MU spreads, and one character I've been struggling to find a good main/alt for is Lin Lee Koo. For that, I'd like to hear some suggestions.

63060fde7d2dfaf0741699a6ece21cfe4c2e3356.gif


REQS:

  • Mechanically-minded genius prodigy at a young age (Lin is 13, before you ask). Make that an obsession or drive if you can.
  • Post-apocalypse setting (I know NLA is still industrial/developed, but her planet still blew up).
  • Have a strained but understanding relationship with someone in an adjacent circumstance (read: what happened with Lao).
  • Be at least 7-C+ Physically, and 5-B+ when scaled.

For Bonus points:

  • Have a portable shield as a weapon.
  • Have a comic relief as a sidekick.
  • Have dead parents, 'preferably' in an accident (I know that sounds f*cked, but you know what I mean)
  • Can also cook (literally).

I have Annette from 3H put down rn, and while that one is OK-ish, it's kinda a placeholder. The only other one I can think of is Clemont from the Pokemon XY anime, but that's not post-apoc, unless you count the attack on Lumiose for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
  • Well, this is why Serial Designation N makes for her new best (and only) MU for these charts (yes, I watched Murder Drones, and... it's alright, I guess). The scaling is basically perfect depending on the interpretation (see my post-analysis workshop for more information), the 'strained relationship' point works wonderfully with the 'comic relief sidekick' suggestion for bonus points (N, J, Uzi and Cyn all seem to have parental issues of a sort), Murder Drones as a plot is basically a post-apocalypse setting (which JCJenson mentions could also parallel Lao criticizing interpretations of what 'the first world elite' see as meritocratic), and I'll also give this MU points for Skell vs flyer forms. I'm glad I could get that shored up, ngl.
  • Sec. Nagi has been shored up with Seteth (3H) as his singular MU of choice. I think I've discussed this before, but I wouldn't know where to find it. MU largely boils down to 'second in command with a hidden softer side, and also Skell vs Wyvern would be cool'.
  • Luxaar has been cleaned to have Garon as his MU of choice. Skip back through my charts, and you'll see where the discussion comes in.
  • Chairman Bana (XC2) now has MUs to speak of after trying to watch (and dropping) Bleach as a series (you'll notice that as a theme soon enough, Arrancar went on way too long for me to be bothered, and I'd gotten to the point where Aizen was the only other 'significant character' left for VS purposes by that point) - in this case, Mayuri Kurotsuchi is his MU of choice, as both come off as these sort of 'discreet opportunists' of their series, whilst being played off as not all that series. Mayuri with his 'baby blimp' Bankai (I can't be bothered to find it's actual name) vs Bana's mech built off the back of Laila (side note, Lila vs Nemu makes for good animation potential) would be equal parts hilarious and sick as hell to see, and it's even vaguely debateable (if we're seriously giving XC2 low tiers High 6-A to 5-C, and making speed equal, Mayuri can still keep up with the hax he has for days). Fun stuff, all around.
  • And for the next P2IS MU, we have Z vs Nyarlethotep, with the theme largely coming down to 'concepts that represent the darkest unconscious desires of humanity'. N vs Jun was something I contemplated (see the whole 'N was Noah, and Jun became the Joker' thing), but N's MUs are saturated enough as is, and Z was well on his way to needing reforms to his spreads to begin with, although those circumstances can make for another thematic parallel (as far as N's MUs, I'm starting to prefer Roxas, but if Lif gets the op, I would not lose a wink of sleep). As SMT/Persona gonna SMT/Persona, Nyarly probably wins, but it's a bit closer than a lot want to admit depending on interpretations, and the fact that their powersets/hax kinda render dimensionality irrelevant.

New Alts, and improved "best" MUs:
  • Continuing with this streak of Bleach MUs, I'm putting Ichigo as an alt under Fei's MUs (as I know people are looking into alt Ichigo MUs, that episode is getting kinda old), A) because of a later MU I'll be discussing (literally next, in fact), and B) because the circumstances of Fei and Ichigo both getting their mothers (and/or subsequent adopted family) killed by their own hands when they were younger just kinda fits. Which brings us to...
  • Citan Uzuki vs Kisuke Urahara - for those who know, this should be relatively obvious, but for those who don't, both are semi-aloof country Samurai (I know that's not really a term, but you know what I mean) who take an interest in the MCs for their alter egos or latent power, whilst being former workers for the central body that comprises their verse (Citan being ex-Gebler/Solaris, and a former Element, whilst spending the 'current day' attempting to help Fei out with Id, and Kisuke being the 12th Division's Captain, whilst spending non-flashback episodes helping Ichigo tame the Hollow/White within him). I find it fun how Citan also just tinkers with machines in his home with Yui, whilst Kisuke runs that shop for spirit beings etc.
  • To add to a small list of MUs I wasn't expecting to reform, Emeralda now has Dolores (Zone of the Enders) as her joint best MU (again, depending on if Sage being included in Bowser vs Eggman puts her on that unwritten 2-year cooldown). I'm only a few episodes into the ZotE Anime, but from what I can tell with Dolores... she's got more than a fighting chance of getting a good episode (both Emeralda and Dolores claiming MCs as family members, whilst being recreations of deceased beings or otherwise (Em' recognizing Fei and Elly as their pre-incarnations, and Dolores calling James Links 'uncle' for the proceedings).
  • Big Joe now has Super Arrow (F-Zero) as a gag MU. They both play up the crowd whilst making arses of themselves - that's the 411, basically. Think Hurcule vs Dan Hibiki energy.
  • Margulis (as hinted at earlier) is technically a cleaning job (Archangel Abdiel has been his best MU for a while now), I'd be hard pressed not to bring him up to anyone looking for Shredder alts (I am by no means a TMNT buff, but still), what with the whole 'they had a protagonist rival that got the girl at one point under the tutelage of a master they had a strained relationship with' gig. Although it is worth noting that with Abdiel being Margulis's best MU, and Pellegri being his 'circumstance' here, you could make Marg/Pellegri vs Abdiel/Dazai a 2v2 - that Mech fight vs Nahobino form would be raw as hell to see.
  • Similar(ish?) to Z, I found myself mulling over reforms to Riki's MU spreads (KH Donald Duck being his placeholder for a while, but Moogle (FF) and Mamori (Tokyo Mirage Sessions) also came on and off my radar at one point) - and then I remembered people looking for certain Kirby MUs, and that Bandana Dee was an option staring me right in the face the whole time. I can't speak much for powersets (although sods law, if I played enough Kirby games, I'd find plenty to work with), but the main links are that they're 'the unlikely hero' picked out as part of their 'plushable' species (the Nopon and Waddle Dee respectively), and function off of surprise rather than raw power (as much as they don't exactly lack it). Makna Village is also on good terms with the High Entia, and while King Dedede might be an asshole, he's not outright evil despite being royalty. Both Riki and Bandana Dee technically serve under both to a certain extent, or have allegiances regardless.
Also, if you're wondering why I'm not mentioning Melia yet despite her having reforms to her slot - we'll get back to her.
  • Despite being a Pokémon buff, the Mystery Dungeon games have never really jumped out at me. So when I looked up a brief description of PMD Dusknoir after Rappter's chat bought him up, I thought 'hold on, 90% of this is Dickson!" (friendly travellers and part-time father-figures who are actually in cahoots with what is seen as the main antagonist (Dickson with Zanza as a member of the Trinity, and Dusknoir colluding with Primal Dialga) around temporal concepts (Zanza with Visions/the Passage of Fate, and Grovyle with the Time Gears). The main thing that might be seen as a contrast (I can't say for certain, despite having a copy of PMD: Sky on my modded Wii U, so that might be fun to take a crack at) is that Dusknoir is seen as 'reformed', whereas Dickson post-betrayal is seen as taking sadistic glee in his duty (for as much as people will make a 9-5 out of taking the 'deceiving these kids' line out of context), but admits he's impressed with Shulk's progress, and doesn't want to make himself a martyr (as per his own admission after the fight on Prison Island). Going to be a fun one to dig into when I find the time.
  • Oh look, another Xeno vs Bleach MU... [ahem], anyway - Ga Jairg now has Sajin Komamura as his main MU of choice, largely on a count of animation potential (also they're warrior furries with complicated mercenary-independence dynamics, what with Ga Jairg having a temporary alliance with the Ganglion before the theft of the Vita makes him reconsider, and Sajin being stabbed in the back by Kaname Tozen who was then defecting to Aizen's side, making him [Sajin] contemplate the viability of the Court Guard Squads). A very obscure MU, admittedly, but I think Wrothian Skells vs whatever Sajin's Bankai has going on has the best kind of escalative MU potential, there's a high chance for both parties to respect each other (something people have been vibing with after Simon vs Kyle), and you could even double up this MU as a 2v2 what with Ga Buidhe existing, and whoever Sajin's partner/lieutenant elects to be.
  • Rex now has Sorey (Tales of Zesteria) added to his list of MUs in place of Tsubasa. JustSomeNobody explains it best for the most part, and while I have not played through ToZ yet, I did watch the Anime a while back, so I can definitely vibe with where he's going with this.
  • Bit of an odd reform, but on Zeke's MU charts, I've replaced Owain/Odin (FE) with... Yoshiko Tsushima (Love Live, canonical composite inc. Yohane and Granblue crossover (what, did you forget I could play the Love Live card here?)). I think the banter dynamic is the main draw here (what with Zeke's 'bringer of chaos' line, and Yoshiko's chunni shtick from multiple angles). I'll let this one speak for itself, I need to wrap up soon.
  • Patroka's spreads isn't really something I thought about going into my LP of P2IS, but Anna certainly came close enough to warrant a mention (both jaded with a secret 'loving sister' vibe (with Akhos and Yukino respectively), whilst being a part of terrorist cults before they pass to 'another timeline' (Neo Torna and the Masquerade respectively). Oh, and Boa Hancock (One Piece) is also here after suggestions from Rappter's chat and a brief search for her description warranted me bringing Patroka up (if I can't get through 300+ episodes of Bleach, do I really want to touch the One Piece?
    iu
    )
  • And finally, we get to an alt for Riku's MUs in the form of Jumba Jookiba, as Lilo and Stitch seem to be getting a resurgence given everyone hating on the live-action de-make. Jumba is something of an interesting case, given the brief descriptions I've found, as it's sort of Riku's circumstances in a different order (Jumba formerly being a mad scientist for the Galactic Federation before being sacked, similar to how Riku technically had a loose alliance with Moebius in FR, and finding work in Colony 14 with Noah to hand off Lucky Seven to him (iirc Riku is L7's original creator) and defecting with the party there). Riku is also technically one of Riki's adopted sons, similar to how Jumba (and Stitch) were adopted into Lilo's family. No idea what I could say for the fight dynamic, but the idea is there.

"Will find good MUs for food":
  • Maria (Xenogears) still needs reforms, but I'm not 100% sure where to look. Tails kinda works, but much like how people are gunning for Makoto Yuki vs Archie Sonic, Tails will probably be booked by then...
  • Melia's MUs are... kind of a problem. If fact, she's a lot like Sena in that sense - all of her MUs, while at least decent to very good, all seem to be missing something. Calista (The Last Story) and Haru Okumara (Persona 5) seem to be the two frontrunners gunning for her position, and while Calista has legacy MU privileges (read: Operation Rainfall), relations as a queen with complicated marriage clauses for political reasons, and animation potential (the Mech she gets in XC3 vs Sentinal Beast Mitra makes for superb animation potential), the buffs Melia got over recent years make this MU more of a stomp than it needs to be (unless by some miracle someone interprets the Outsider and World Seed as universe creators/busters). Haru exchanges the 'mech fight' animation potential for a more debateable powerset, but not having the XC3 mech kinda sucks, and I'm not 100% sure how the fight would actually end in that animation? You might also notice Noctis (FFXV) sticking his head out, and while all bases from a brief description work to a certain extent, I cannot adjudicate on his viability, as I have not played enough of FFXV to comment (it's on my backburner, though). Other than those three... it gets kinda cluttered (SAO Alice, LL Dia Kurosawa, AoT Historia, all reluctantly OK-ish? But mostly bloat).
  • Doug (XCX) is... largely a circumstance for Lin and other XCX characters at this point, but the idea of the 'buff guy who is slightly pre-levelled' is... something, I guess? If anyone has anything that can work with that, let me know (hence Fredrick from Awakening being there).
And (thankfully), that'll be all for now, folks!
Stay tuned. And feel free to pitch in with ideas.
 
Last edited:
Joycap said:
I don't recall who bought up Fei vs Shinji... I THINK it was @Loh67867 or @JoshDoshMosh - feel free to correct me?
Click to expand...
That was me in fact, right as I played Xenogears the two just had similar vibes, the thing that kind of bugs me in that MU though is the fact that Shinji gets just sorta negged, though there is a Evangelion novel called Evangelion Anima, which is quite literally just Eva Super Robot edition and I heard that Shinji gets stronger there but I'm unsure how strong exactly lul
 
Joycap said:
Been a little while since I posted an update to my Xeno JRPG MU charts, so...

81a9931f8ad6dac3601e4eaeaae2dac77986482b.png





Yep, we've got a LOT to cover...
So, what's changed, exactly?

Singular(s) - Cleaned and Renovated:
  • As someone who is not a DC buff by any stretch, finding Bizzaro as a matchup for Id was a pleasant surprise (I was in Rappter's Discord when the name came up in one of the MU suggestion channels). Both appear to be a riff on a certain mental deficiency (Id being DiD for Fei, and Bizzaro either being general trauma, or lack of social cues, depending on the interpretation you go with). It's going to feel a bit odd using gigawanked Zohar scaling for Id, but I think I can work with it should the day ever come.
  • chaos has been cleaned so that Makoto Yuki is now his singular best MU (I'm aware people are gunning for Archie Sonic again, and while I don't outright hate that MU... you know how I'd argue this). Loki probably has better, and by our standards, he doesn't quite have the correct scaling for... some reason (Loptr does, though), so I'm going to have to binge the Bayonetta games before I can say for certain if he should come back to these charts.
  • Jin Uzuki vs Kittan Bachika is the Xeno vs GL MU I was talking about after Simon's win vs Kyle, and has been discussed here.
  • I'm currently working through all material related to Zone of the Enders, which is why Pellegri has Viola (ZotE1/OVA) as her singular MU of choice. While I don't imagine Pellegri getting her own episode, as she's more of a circumstance under Margulis's MUs (more on him later), what Viola has (the dead or 'strained behaviour' ex (see Jin and Radium for more information), as well as the loaning of mechs before the main villains basically snatch them away and make them circumstances in their afterlife) makes her at least comfortable here. Stat gap is a bit strained if you buy into T1 Pellegri, but not every MU needs to be close ig.
  • Yuriev is now reduced to Dr. Finitevus, and has de-facto been so for a while now. I think I've just accepted that Bubuki Buranki MUs are basically never happening (even if I think Salem vs Reoko slaps).
  • Canaan vs Maya Amano... now here's a fun one. Even as someone who came out of a playthrough of P2IS thinking it was kinda mid (sorry @JoshDoshMosh...) and is willing to hold off on a playthrough of Eternal Punishment, I think what makes this MU quite striking is A) the personality contrasts a la Gladion vs Tora, and B) how both have these sort of 'hidden in plain sight' naming conventions that makes them linchpins in villain plots despite being protagonists, and even their behaviour at differing, far-flung points in time (what with Canaan being Lactis, a double agent for VECTOR, Scientia, and what remained of Jan Sauer's crew, whilst being a Realian from 120+ years prior to the main Xenosaga Trilogy's events handling the Canaan Program, and witnessing Jan commit suicide whilst his new wife and stepson are killed right in front of him, earstwhile Maya being 'the Maian Oracle' (I went with the PS1 fan translation, so if that's technically off, I'm sorry), and an analogue for the blood that poured endlessly from Christ when he was killed, with similar happening to her when fighting actual Hitler (I am not joking...), when a vision of Ms. Ideal (who had already gone nuts when coming across the Bolontiku within the core of Xibalba) cuts her down for it, before Tatsuya etc. migrate to the new timeline, Maya included). Maya may not have a Mech, but she more than has the scaling... even if a version of this that works in her incompetence with vehicles she has no business using could be funny (Robin Goodfellow can attest):
ecce3d72dc2fb41bd24b8bf5eb59c003c34e859f.png

(Actual line from the game, btw)

Now... Y'all know how I was asking for Lin Lee Koo MUs a while back?

  • Well, this is why Serial Designation N makes for her new best (and only) MU for these charts (yes, I watched Murder Drones, and... it's alright, I guess). The scaling is basically perfect depending on the interpretation (see my post-analysis workshop for more information), the 'strained relationship' point works wonderfully with the 'comic relief sidekick' suggestion for bonus points (N, J, Uzi and Cyn all seem to have parental issues of a sort), Murder Drones as a plot is basically a post-apocalypse setting (which JCJenson mentions could also parallel Lao criticizing interpretations of what 'the first world elite' see as meritocratic), and I'll also give this MU points for Skell vs flyer forms. I'm glad I could get that shored up, ngl.
  • Sec. Nagi has been shored up with Seteth (3H) as his singular MU of choice. I think I've discussed this before, but I wouldn't know where to find it. MU largely boils down to 'second in command with a hidden softer side, and also Skell vs Wyvern would be cool'.
  • Luxaar has been cleaned to have Garon as his MU of choice. Skip back through my charts, and you'll see where the discussion comes in.
  • Chairman Bana (XC2) now has MUs to speak of after trying to watch (and dropping) Bleach as a series (you'll notice that as a theme soon enough, Arrancar went on way too long for me to be bothered, and I'd gotten to the point where Aizen was the only other 'significant character' left for VS purposes by that point) - in this case, Mayuri Kurotsuchi is his MU of choice, as both come off as these sort of 'discreet opportunists' of their series, whilst being played off as not all that series. Mayuri with his 'baby blimp' Bankai (I can't be bothered to find it's actual name) vs Bana's mech built off the back of Laila (side note, Lila vs Nemu makes for good animation potential) would be equal parts hilarious and sick as hell to see, and it's even vaguely debateable (if we're seriously giving XC2 low tiers High 6-A to 5-C, and making speed equal, Mayuri can still keep up with the hax he has for days). Fun stuff, all around.
  • And for the next P2IS MU, we have Z vs Nyarlethotep, with the theme largely coming down to 'concepts that represent the darkest unconscious desires of humanity'. N vs Jun was something I contemplated (see the whole 'N was Noah, and Jun became the Joker' thing), but N's MUs are saturated enough as is, and Z was well on his way to needing reforms to his spreads to begin with, although those circumstances can make for another thematic parallel (as far as N's MUs, I'm starting to prefer Roxas, but if Lif gets the op, I would not lose a wink of sleep). As SMT/Persona gonna SMT/Persona, Nyarly probably wins, but it's a bit closer than a lot want to admit depending on interpretations, and the fact that their powersets/hax kinda render dimensionality irrelevant.

New Alts, and improved "best" MUs:
  • Continuing with this streak of Bleach MUs, I'm putting Ichigo as an alt under Fei's MUs (as I know people are looking into alt Ichigo MUs, that episode is getting kinda old), A) because of a later MU I'll be discussing (literally next, in fact), and B) because the circumstances of Fei and Ichigo both getting their mothers (and/or subsequent adopted family) killed by their own hands when they were younger just kinda fits. Which brings us to...
  • Citan Uzuki vs Kisuke Urahara - for those who know, this should be relatively obvious, but for those who don't, both are semi-aloof country Samurai (I know that's not really a term, but you know what I mean) who take an interest in the MCs for their alter egos or latent power, whilst being former workers for the central body that comprises their verse (Citan being ex-Gebler/Solaris, and a former Element, whilst spending the 'current day' attempting to help Fei out with Id, and Kisuke being the 12th Division's Captain, whilst spending non-flashback episodes helping Ichigo tame the Hollow/White within him). I find it fun how Citan also just tinkers with machines in his home with Yui, whilst Kisuke runs that shop for spirit beings etc.
  • To add to a small list of MUs I wasn't expecting to reform, Emeralda now has Dolores (Zone of the Enders) as her joint best MU (again, depending on if Sage being included in Bowser vs Eggman puts her on that unwritten 2-year cooldown). I'm only a few episodes into the ZotE Anime, but from what I can tell with Dolores... she's got more than a fighting chance of getting a good episode (both Emeralda and Dolores claiming MCs as family members, whilst being recreations of deceased beings or otherwise (Em' recognizing Fei and Elly as their pre-incarnations, and Dolores calling James Links 'uncle' for the proceedings).
  • Big Joe now has Super Arrow (F-Zero) as a gag MU. They both play up the crowd whilst making arses of themselves - that's the 411, basically. Think Hurcule vs Dan Hibiki energy.
  • Margulis (as hinted at earlier) is technically a cleaning job (Archangel Abdiel has been his best MU for a while now), I'd be hard pressed not to bring him up to anyone looking for Shredder alts (I am by no means a TMNT buff, but still), what with the whole 'they had a protagonist rival that got the girl at one point under the tutelage of a master they had a strained relationship with' gig. Although it is worth noting that with Abdiel being Margulis's best MU, and Pellegri being his 'circumstance' here, you could make Marg/Pellegri vs Abdiel/Dazai a 2v2 - that Mech fight vs Nahobino form would be raw as hell to see.
  • Similar(ish?) to Z, I found myself mulling over reforms to Riki's MU spreads (KH Donald Duck being his placeholder for a while, but Moogle (FF) and Mamori (Tokyo Mirage Sessions) also came on and off my radar at one point) - and then I remembered people looking for certain Kirby MUs, and that Bandana Dee was an option staring me right in the face the whole time. I can't speak much for powersets (although sods law, if I played enough Kirby games, I'd find plenty to work with), but the main links are that they're 'the unlikely hero' picked out as part of their 'plushable' species (the Nopon and Waddle Dee respectively), and function off of surprise rather than raw power (as much as they don't exactly lack it). Makna Village is also on good terms with the High Entia, and while King Dedede might be an asshole, he's not outright evil despite being royalty. Both Riki and Bandana Dee technically serve under both to a certain extent, or have allegiances regardless.
Also, if you're wondering why I'm not mentioning Melia yet despite her having reforms to her slot - we'll get back to her.
  • Despite being a Pokémon buff, the Mystery Dungeon games have never really jumped out at me. So when I looked up a brief description of PMD Dusknoir after Rappter's chat bought him up, I thought 'hold on, 90% of this is Dickson!" (friendly travellers and part-time father-figures who are actually in cahoots with what is seen as the main antagonist (Dickson with Zanza as a member of the Trinity, and Dusknoir colluding with Primal Dialga) around temporal concepts (Zanza with Visions/the Passage of Fate, and Grovyle with the Time Gears). The main thing that might be seen as a contrast (I can't say for certain, despite having a copy of PMD: Sky on my modded Wii U, so that might be fun to take a crack at) is that Dusknoir is seen as 'reformed', whereas Dickson post-betrayal is seen as taking sadistic glee in his duty (for as much as people will make a 9-5 out of taking the 'deceiving these kids' line out of context), but admits he's impressed with Shulk's progress, and doesn't want to make himself a martyr (as per his own admission after the fight on Prison Island). Going to be a fun one to dig into when I find the time.
  • Oh look, another Xeno vs Bleach MU... [ahem], anyway - Ga Jairg now has Sajin Komamura as his main MU of choice, largely on a count of animation potential (also they're warrior furries with complicated mercenary-independence dynamics, what with Ga Jairg having a temporary alliance with the Ganglion before the theft of the Vita makes him reconsider, and Sajin being stabbed in the back by Kaname Tozen while defecting to Aizen's side making him contemplate the viability of the Court Guard Squads). A very obscure MU, admittedly, but I think Wrothian Skells vs whatever Sajin's Bankai has going on has the best kind of escalative MU potential, there's a high chance for both parties to respect each other (something people have been vibing with after Simon vs Kyle), and you could even double up this MU as a 2v2 what with Ga Buidhe existing, and whoever Sajin's partner/lieutenant elects to be.
  • Rex now has Sorey (Tales of Zesteria) added to his list of MUs in place of Tsubasa. JustSomeNobody explains it best for the most part, and while I have not played through ToZ yet, I did watch the Anime a while back, so I can definitely vibe with where he's going with this.
  • Bit of an odd reform, but on Zeke's MU charts, I've replaced Owain/Odin (FE) with... Yoshiko Tsushima (Love Live, canonical composite inc. Yohane and Granblue crossover (what, did you forget I could play the Love Live card here?)). I think the banter dynamic is the main draw here (what with Zeke's 'bringer of chaos' line, and Yoshiko's chunni shtick from multiple angles). I'll let this one speak for itself, I need to wrap up soon.
  • Patroka's spreads isn't really something I thought about going into my LP of P2IS, but Anna certainly came close enough to warrant a mention (both jaded with a secret 'loving sister' vibe (with Akhos and Yukino respectively), whilst being a part of terrorist cults before they pass to 'another timeline' (Neo Torna and the Masquerade respectively). Oh, and Boa Hancock (One Piece) is also here after suggestions from Rappter's chat and a brief search for her description warranted me bringing Patroka up (if I can't get through 300+ episodes of Bleach, do I really want to touch the One Piece?
    iu
    )
  • And finally, we get to an alt for Riku's MUs in the form of Jumba Jookiba, as Lilo and Stitch seem to be getting a resurgence given everyone hating on the live-action de-make. Jumba is something of an interesting case, given the brief descriptions I've found, as it's sort of Riku's circumstances in a different order (Jumba formerly being a mad scientist for the Galactic Federation before being sacked, similar to how Riku technically had a loose alliance with Moebius in FR, and finding work in Colony 14 with Noah to hand off Lucky Seven to him (iirc Riku is L7's original creator) and defecting with the party there). Riku is also technically one of Riki's adopted sons, similar to how Jumba (and Stitch) were adopted into Lilo's family. No idea what I could say for the fight dynamic, but the idea is there.

"Will find good MUs for food":
  • Maria (Xenogears) still needs reforms, but I'm not 100% sure where to look. Tails kinda works, but much like how people are gunning for Makoto Yuki vs Archie Sonic, Tails will probably be booked by then...
  • Melia's MUs are... kind of a problem. If fact, she's a lot like Sena in that sense - all of her MUs, while at least decent to very good, all seem to be missing something. Calista (The Last Story) and Haru Okumara (Persona 5) seem to be the two frontrunners gunning for her position, and while Calista has legacy MU privileges (read: Operation Rainfall), relations as a queen with complicated marriage clauses for political reasons, and animation potential (the Mech she gets in XC3 vs Sentinal Beast Mitra makes for superb animation potential), the buffs Melia got over recent years make this MU more of a stomp than it needs to be (unless by some miracle someone interprets the Outsider and World Seed as universe creators/busters). Haru exchanges the 'mech fight' animation potential for a more debateable powerset, but not having the XC3 mech kinda sucks, and I'm not 100% sure how the fight would actually end in that animation? You might also notice Noctis (FFXV) sticking his head out, and while all bases from a brief description work to a certain extent, I cannot adjudicate on his viability, as I have not played enough of FFXV to comment (it's on my backburner, though). Other than those three... it gets kinda cluttered (SAO Alice, LL Dia Kurosawa, AoT Historia, all reluctantly OK-ish? But mostly bloat).
  • Doug (XCX) is... largely a circumstance for Lin and other XCX characters at this point, but the idea of the 'buff guy who is slightly pre-levelled' is... something, I guess? If anyone has anything that can work with that, let me know (hence Fredrick from Awakening being there).
And (thankfully), that'll be all for now, folks!
Stay tuned. And feel free to pitch in with ideas.
Click to expand...
Yo I spotted Accelerator, who is he fighting?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Joycap
Custom Death Battle post-fight analysis workshop
Replies
38
Views
8K
Stefano4444
Stefano4444
Jasonsith
  • Locked
Death Battle Season Ten Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
1063 1064 1065
Replies
43K
Views
3M
Emirp sumitpo
Emirp sumitpo
Jasonsith
  • Locked
Death Battle Season Nine Discussion Thread (2) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
650 651 652
Replies
26K
Views
2M
Maverick_Zero_X
Maverick_Zero_X
Jasonsith
  • Locked
Death Battle Season Nine Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
477 478 479
Replies
19K
Views
1M
Emirp sumitpo
Emirp sumitpo
TMaakkonen
DEATH BATTLE! Accuracy Scale [Part 10, The more things change, the more they stay the same]
27 28 29
Replies
1K
Views
150K
TMaakkonen
TMaakkonen
Back
Top