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Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision

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Hmm. It doesn't seem like we have a sufficient consensus to apply this change.

Maybe we can expand on our wiki justifications for why the Dragon Ball universes are considered to be separate with all of the relevant evidence presented here instead?
 
Hmm. It doesn't seem like we have a sufficient consensus to apply this change.

Maybe we can expand on our wiki justifications for why the Dragon Ball universes are considered to be separate with all of the relevant evidence presented here instead?
I think it makes sense, but using some guides and Toei's mention of the verse easily picks up 2-C, as having Heaven Universal in size, as well as Hell being declared bigger than Heaven itself, there's also quote from the afterlife being transcendental, but I don't know.

DBS cosmology doesn't change that much, but I think it would serve as evidence, just the mention of cosmology.
 
Hmm. It doesn't seem like we have a sufficient consensus to apply this change.

Maybe we can expand on our wiki justifications for why the Dragon Ball universes are considered to be separate with all of the relevant evidence presented here instead?
why would we do that when more staff agree with the downgrade? i don't understand the logic
 
Just to remind everyone but Universe 1-12 share the "Divine Calendar" that the gods use. They share the same time.

The Super Dragon Balls were created by Zalama in the Year 41 of the Divine Calendar.
 
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Just to clarify, we need a quite clear staff consensus to apply changes to our pages, so since that does not exist here, I thought that we might be able to go with the available most constructive alternative here.
 
Just to clarify, we need a quite clear staff consensus to apply changes to our pages, so since that does not exist here, I thought that we might be able to go with the available most constructive alternative here.
well, I think it makes sense, so what you suggested should be applied, and close this topic.
 
@Antvasima Rank means jack shit when it comes to staff votes Ant, if 10 content mods agreed with a CRT and 3 bureaucrats disagreed you're still outvoted.
Well, content moderators do not have content revision thread evaluation rights, only bureaucrats, administrators, and thread moderators do, and the former two types have a bit more voting power, although not overwhelmingly so, but the point was that content revision threads need a clear staff consensus to be applied, and we do not have that here.
 
So by your own admission you do not outrank the others by a wide margin at all, so call more staff members since we're essentially at a tie. Going off this entire thread there hasn't been much new added beyond the other world's concept of time not existing, which would need some evaluation if that even counts as a separate tier 2 structure or not.
 
He does not outrank significantly but definitely counted as a valid one as thread moderator's vote and his concerns is valued same as yours.

Also in terms of policy modification, bureaucrats will most likely be outvoting most of staff members if all of them (bureaucrats) disagree with a policy alternation suggestion.
 
Right, but think about it. If a calendar works no matter what universe you are in, then they would seem to be temporally very similar. That’s why calendars can work no matter what country you are in.
I disagree, if we use the same premise we can level up several verses and downgrade just with that, think about it, would you like your verse to be downgraded in a logic like that? Well, I disagree.
 
He does not outrank significantly but definitely counted as a valid one as thread moderator's vote and his concerns is valued same as yours.

Also in terms of policy modification, bureaucrats will most likely be outvoting most of staff members if all of them (bureaucrats) disagree with a policy alternation suggestion.
As long as it's about specific verse and not about wiki policies such as tiering system change. Vote values are considered equal among all.
 
Also in terms of policy modification, bureaucrats will most likely be outvoting most of staff members if all of them (bureaucrats) disagree with a policy alternation suggestion.
Yes, our biggest authority is that we act as a final safeguard against potentially dangerous policy changes for our entire wiki, but this is a regular content revision thread. We have much less authority regarding such issues.
 
As long as it's about specific verse and not about wiki policies such as tiering system change. Vote values are considered equal among all.
No, bureaucrats still have a bit more voting authority than administrators, who have a bit more voting authority than thread moderators, but not overwhelmingly so. I think that we added specifications about this to our official rule pages recently.
 
No, bureaucrats still have a bit more voting authority than administrators, who have a bit more voting authority than thread moderators, but not overwhelmingly so. I think that we added specifications about this to our official rule pages recently.
Uh I see, I was unaware then...
 
I disagree, if we use the same premise we can level up several verses and downgrade just with that, think about it, would you like your verse to be downgraded in a logic like that? Well, I disagree.
Does what you or I want really matter in this case? it leading to downgrades isn’t relevant to whether or not the reasoning is correct.
 
As long as it's about specific verse and not about wiki policies such as tiering system change. Vote values are considered equal among all.
Wrong. Completely wrong, admins have higher evaluation rights in terms of higher tiers for example. I made this clear-cut in the recent staff thread. Bureaucrats do not have a drastically high value votes but definitely not equal to any staff role.
 
Your scan should be saying all this, not you. In which section this sub space falls? All I can see is that it's in universe /macrocosm section which is contradicted.
If it’s not in the macrocosm then by default it should still be in the timeline because even if it’s not In the macrocosm there’s nothing suggesting it’s not within the timeline but that doesn’t even matter since it’s in the World Beyond/Universe section meaning it can allly to the macrocosm or timeline so if Macrocosm is contradicted it’s the timeline and there’s no contradictions to it being inside the timeline but not in the macrocosm you have to prove it’s outside the timeline because there’s nothing suggesting it is
@ImmortalDread that’s not really how it works, especially if there’s no indication the flow of time is different between universes.

@Stefano4444 I see, then I’ll stay neutral on the other world statement until we have some experts comment on that.
the time flow of both living universe and otherworld are different but there’s not explicit statements of them being seperated by space and time like in the toeiverse which is why it’s easier for Goku to use ssj3 in the afterlife than the living universe but both pretty much have the same cosmologies toeiverse just has better statements for it being seperate space time continumms
 
Does what you or I want really matter in this case? it leading to downgrades isn’t relevant to whether or not the reasoning is correct.
He is new and have no debating or arguing skill and is much less aware of the standards we have, so it's only upto you that you find what he said satisfactory or not or else you'll have to leave it to staff as he won't be able to debate (highly unlikely you'll get what you are asking for). So you'll have to wait for if other supporters have something to say on calendar stuff.
If it’s not in the macrocosm then by default it should still be in the timeline because even if it’s not In the macrocosm there’s nothing suggesting it’s not within the timeline but that doesn’t even matter since it’s in the World Beyond/Universe section meaning it can allly to the macrocosm or timeline so if Macrocosm is contradicted it’s the timeline and there’s no contradictions to it being inside the timeline but not in the macrocosm you have to prove it’s outside the timeline because there’s nothing suggesting it is

the time flow of both living universe and otherworld are different but there’s not explicit statements of them being seperated by space and time like in the toeiverse which is why it’s easier for Goku to use ssj3 in the afterlife than the living universe but both pretty much have the same cosmologies toeiverse just has better statements for it being seperate space time continumms
Nice.
 
If there exists any new argument for separate space times for the individual universes then by all means post it right now.
Is there anything that can be done with this?




The cosmology breakdown given in the Interval Specials for the Super Manga recently describe the introduction of the new characters and settings into different universes as crossing space and time.
 
He is new and have no debating or arguing skill and is much less aware of the standards we have, so it's only upto you that you find what he said satisfactory or not or else you'll have to leave it to staff as he won't be able to debate (highly unlikely you'll get what you are asking for). So you'll have to wait for if other supporters have something to say on calendar stuff.

Nice.
So you agree?
 
In the sense that time flow its so low that time stands still, at least for Goku's perspective.
that is contradicted in several moments, goku said that time doesn't exist, where did you get time slow from it?
If it’s not in the macrocosm then by default it should still be in the timeline because even if it’s not In the macrocosm there’s nothing suggesting it’s not within the timeline but that doesn’t even matter since it’s in the World Beyond/Universe section meaning it can allly to the macrocosm or timeline so if Macrocosm is contradicted it’s the timeline and there’s no contradictions to it being inside the timeline but not in the macrocosm you have to prove it’s outside the timeline because there’s nothing suggesting it is
well the guide in question is not talking about the multiverse/timeline, so this point is kinda moot

the time flow of both living universe and otherworld are different but there’s not explicit statements of them being seperated by space and time like in the toeiverse which is why it’s easier for Goku to use ssj3 in the afterlife than the living universe but both pretty much have the same cosmologies toeiverse just has better statements for it being seperate space time continumms
no, goku said that there is no time in the otherworld, idk how can anyone interpret as different times, he said that there is no time at all, which is contradicted numerous times in the series
 
Is there anything that can be done with this?




The cosmology breakdown given in the Interval Specials for the Super Manga recently describe the introduction of the new characters and settings into different universes as crossing space and time.

Where is this scan from ?It looks like it was just brought up yesterday on twitter. This also bring nothing.
No, bureaucrats still have a bit more voting authority than administrators, who have a bit more voting authority than thread moderators, but not overwhelmingly so. I think that we added specifications about this to our official rule pages recently.
This is so authoritarian
We still have 3 agreements along with LordGriffin agreeing with the premise of the thread.
 
Thank you for helping out with evidence. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
That evidence means nothing.......Other evidence is rejected by wiki long ago. There is no new counter evidence.
I am not referring to the context, I am talking generally. I am not sure why we should assume, that universe A that has its own timeline, and universe being stated to be outside of it, then the latter has no timeline? It makes no sense
Dread you don't know the context of DB. The profile Acknowledges this.
 
that is contradicted in several moments, goku said that time doesn't exist, where did you get time slow from it?

well the guide in question is not talking about the multiverse/timeline, so this point is kinda moot


no, goku said that there is no time in the otherworld, idk how can anyone interpret as different times, he said that there is no time at all, which is contradicted numerous times in the series
If it’s not in the macrocosm then by default it should still be in the timeline because even if it’s not In the macrocosm there’s nothing suggesting it’s not within the timeline but that doesn’t even matter since it’s in the World Beyond/Universe section meaning it can apply to the macrocosm or timeline so if Macrocosm is contradicted it’s the timeline and there’s no contradictions to it being inside the timeline but not in the macrocosm you have to prove it’s outside the timeline because there’s nothing suggesting it is

there being no time at all is contradicted so the time flow Must be different enough for goku to think that
 
If it’s not in the macrocosm then by default it should still be in the timeline because even if it’s not In the macrocosm there’s nothing suggesting it’s not within the timeline but that doesn’t even matter since it’s in the World Beyond/Universe section meaning it can apply to the macrocosm or timeline so if Macrocosm is contradicted it’s the timeline and there’s no contradictions to it being inside the timeline but not in the macrocosm you have to prove it’s outside the timeline because there’s nothing suggesting it is

there being no time at all is contradicted so the time flow Must be different enough for goku to think that
You need to show in which section/title of the topic this sub space being talked in before deciding it by yourself. If it's the part of macrocosm or universe 7 section/title in the book than that's contradicted, if it's timeline then you have to prove or show it's in the timeline section/title.
 
You need to show in which section/title of the topic this sub space being talked in before deciding it by yourself. If it's the part of macrocosm or universe 7 section/title in the book than that's contradicted, if it's timeline then you have to prove or show it's in the timeline section/title.
I think it's good to comment, we've already debated with everything we had and you with your arguments

I think we should stop commenting, it's a team topic, now they have to argue or just close it.
 
Where is this scan from ?It looks like it was just brought up yesterday on twitter. This also bring nothing.
It's from the Interval Specials that aired in place of the actual DB Super Chapters while it was on hiatus in it's slot in V-Jump.




The one in particular this is from is an explanation of the DB Super world. Toyotaro himself has endorsed its information (assuming he isn't just the one who actually wrote it since it came out in the chapter's own slot).

And describing the introduction of new universes as crossing space-time definitely brings something to to table here.
 
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