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I just think that we should open a CRT for DB afterlife, there is a lot of evidence that makes the verse 2-C, but we have to have permission from the administrators, I think it would be good to remove the rule imposed on the verse.
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Dragon Ball Cosmology Revision
- Thread starter Aachintya31
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this thread is not about this, we don't accepted goku's statement about the afterlife, that was brought up numerous times and was rejected, make another thread sure, but please don't derail this one with this
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what are you talking about? he speculates if it is another universe and then question if it is the future or past, nothing indicates that these are two different possibilities
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if this is the reason then it would be downgraded along with all "universes are space times" stuff
because of the timeline part, this thread is making the other 12 universes not space timesThis is the whole reason Sickle of Sorrow is accepted on his profile on this wiki as capable of cutting space-time.
Goku Black (DBS Anime)
Zamasu (ザマス?) was once the Supreme Kai apprentice under Gowasu of Universe 10, who developed a loathing for mortals as he witnessed their actions across the universe, leading him to embark on a crusade against mortals after stealing the body of Son Goku using the Super Dragon Balls, gaining the...vsbattles.fandom.com
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guys, you know what? can we stop? 4 pages already, someone sumarize the arguments against, and then i sumarize the ones in favor, and then we wait, this back and forth is exactly why this thread was created, to stop it from happening, please make a summary and then we wait
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He literally says another universe and another time period as two independent phrases, in this case as two different explanations to the rift. This is rudimentary reading comprehension dude.
And again, what you say is completely redundant semantically and doesn’t make any sense for him to even mention it like that if he meant a different timeline both times since the timelines encompass the universes by default. No one would ever see the need to specify that being in a different country means being in a different street or city.
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no, he say "is it what we call another universe? the past or the future?" he asks if it is another universe and then asks if it is in the future or the past, aka another universe in the past or future
why can't they be both one explanation?
or he is just not talking about a different timeline, but a different universe in the past or in the future
don't see how that correlates
but also let us stop, this back and forth does not help also:
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Then what is the world beyond? Also even if RoSaT being in the macrocosm the scan would still help with the case that it’s within the timeline since that’s not contradicted
Okay like I said before even if it being in the universe is contradicted it being in the timeline isn’t contradicted and if you’re claiming that its it’s own timeline that’s not inside the timeline at all when DB doesn’t operate that way and has never been implied to operate that way you’re gonna need explicit proof because the RoSaT is implied to be in the timeline in the series already and this scan proves it’s in the timeline as well
the concept of timelines did exist actually have you ever watched the Future Trunks saga?
it’s implied in the series that the RoSaT is within the timeline and my scan proves that it’s atleast in the timeline because that is not contradicted at all the reason this has to be said multiple times is because you’re like no it’s impossible for a space time to be in a space time and you haven’t shown any proof that it’s outside the timeline I’ve actually shown proof it’s atleast in the timeline and we can gladly get staff
i was explaining why goku said that even though time is shown to flow in the afterlife nothing more I was mentioning it because the question was asked
Stefano4444
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In a previous Ben 10 CRT Dimension 12, a dimension where time stood still, was used as proof for Ben 10's Universe to be 2-C.
Yes, there was more than just that but still it does show a precedent for that.
How much it was contradicted exactly? Are you referring the Saiyan Saga and Buu Saga's timeskips?
Sure in the Living World time flow normally, but there is no certain that Other World's time flow in the same way or that they had the same time?
Characters in that place are either dead, immortals or their physical body don't age, so its not like there are things that get old here.
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World beyond refers to other world/after life in daizenshuu, are you really a dragon ball supporter (don't be offended, it's just me being surprised rather than questioning something), not joking because it is quite well known dude.
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I’ve been watching db for a couple years don’t worry I don’t take offense easilyWorld beyond refers to other world/after life in daizenshuu, are you really a dragon ball supporter (don't be offended, it's just me being surprised rather than questioning something), not joking because it is quite well known dude.
But my argument is the scan still means it’s in the timeline even if it being in the macrocosm is contradicted
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Uh that's good, I thought I by mistake said something offensive or hurtful, it's just that I was surprised that after knowing this much how can this minor stuff you don't know. But anyway.
Coming to the point. It has to be proven that the scan is not referring to macrocosm but timeline when the Subspace is present in the macrocosm section, and the point that different universes weren't even established at this point, saying that this "sub space" is referring to outside universe to something else is kind.... Stretched interpretation to be taken. I am 100% being genuine, no opponent, no supporter but genuinely, it is very stretched and extraordinary interpretation.
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Can I see proof
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Pointing out: Time stood still but it's still has time as it was stated by billy that dimension 12 has weirdo time effect.
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My point is that the macrocosm is in the timeline (I hope we can atleast agree on that) meaning the scan implies the RoSaT is in the timeline since it’s referring to the macrocosm but now that it being in the macrocosm is contradicted it’s not considered within the macrocosm anymore but it should still be in the timeline unless that’s contradicted as well if that makes sense
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time standing still means that there is time there, not the same thing as time literally not existing
it doesn't, the example you gave has nothing to do with this situation
if you want to use goku's statement, then you are saying that there is no time at all, aka time wouldn't pass from the perspective of someone inside the afterlife, so goku wouldn't have to worry about the time it would take to get back to Earth in the sayan saga, and no time would have passed from his perspective when he is in the afterlife in both the buu saga and the cell saga, age is not the problem time would have been frozen from the perspective of someone inside a "non existing time" dimension
it is never said to be in the timeline, that is the whole point
wdym doesn't operate that way?
it is not implied ever to be inside the timeline, you have not given a single proof of that
timeline as in the 12 universes, back in dbz timelines where the universe, the concept of the local 12 universe multiverse did not existed, the statement cannot be talking about the timeline in this sense since it didn't existed back then
i said many times already, your scan is talking about the universe and its subsections, not about the 12 universe timeline
i specially agree with reiner here:
you haven't show any proof of it being inside the timeline, that is the whole point
ok, goku statement is still contradicted, since he said that there is no time, not that time flows differently, also as per the new standards for tier 2, time flowing differently is not enough for it to be a different space time anymore
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that is not how this works, if the statement is talking about the macrocosm, now that it is contradicted, we simply discard it
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guys can we please do this? preventing this back and forth was the whole reason this thread was created, can we please stop and let the staff evaluate?
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According to this, you need to prove that there existed alternate space-times in U7 to prove that U7 is Low 2-C.
I don’t know whether or not this dimension qualifies for an alternate space-time in U7,so take this with a grain of salt.
Btw, I know this is a staff thread, I’m sorry if I interfere.
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You say the RoSaT is never said to be in the timeline but the macrocosm is inside the timeline and even if the subspace is referring to the macrocosm and it got contradicted (Should give shenron Uni Range since one of the argument was that the wish can reach the otherworld and revive people) and even if it being in the Macrocosm got contradicted it should still be in the timeline because if it’s in the macrocosm it’s in the timeline so it should still mean it’s still in the timeline unless that is contradicted too
by operating that way I mean that there’s stuff inside a timeline and there’s nothing outside of the timeline it branches off the wiki accepts the full cosmology to be 2-B for this reason as well there’s nothing in DB that’s been outside of the timeline as a whole and the RoSaT is never stated to be the case and is stated otherwise
Timelines did exist I don’t see what your point is in the future trunks Saga it legit talks about branching timelines and how changing the past doesn’t change the future and stuff can still be inside a timeline for example the universes etc
im going to have to repeat myself again but if it’s referring to the macrocosm The macrocosm is in the timeline and if it being in the macrocosm is contradicted it’s still in the timeline until contradicted as well
We’re saying that the time flow could be so differnet from Goku’s perspective in the other world that he thinks time flow doesn’t exist you’re overthinking it
Okay? The macrocosm is still in the timeline so the RoSaT indirectly was stated to be in the timeline and it being within the macrocosm was contradicted on the wiki so it still being in the timeline is still followed unless this is contradicted too
i agree with this we should let the staff evaluate
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okay, then please write a sumary of the arguments against the downgrade, and then i will write one about the ones in favor, then i contact ant showing the two sumaries and then he tags staff
what logic is this? it is talking about the macrocosm/universe period, yes the universe is inside the timeline, but since the rosat is not inside the universe, then your whole point loses sense, if the guide says that it is inside the universe and that is contradicted, then there is 0 reason to say it is in the timeline, the guide doesn't mention the timeline at all, that guide doesn't say that the rosat is inside the timeline, just that is inside the macrocosm which is contradicted, so we can't use it, simple, if the information about it being in the universe is contradicted then this part of the guide is useless to the topic at hand
proof that there is nothing outside? the default assumption is that a space time is not inside another, there needs to be proof that it is inside, not the other way around
don't ignore the context of what i said "timeline as in the 12 universes, back in dbz timelines where the universe, the concept of the local 12 universe multiverse did not existed, the statement cannot be talking about the timeline in this sense since it didn't existed back then"
the concept of the 12 universe timeline did not exist, the guide can't be talking about a concept that didn't existed back then
if it is refering to the macrocosm, then it is contradicted and then we don't use it, it isn't refering to the timeline, but the universe, being inside the universe is contradicted, so we can't assume that it is inside the timeline because the only thing on that guide that would imply that it is is contradicted, so we have no reason to assume that it is
you would need evidence for this, since what goku said does not imply that at all
it is never stated to be in the timeline, it is stated to be in the universe, which is contradicted, the only way that guide is implying that it is in the timeline is by it being inside universe, since it isn't inside the universe, it isn't proof of it being inside the timeline, simple
no because it is never said to be inside the timeline, but the universe, which is contradicted, so we discard it
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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I agree with the thread and @Theglassman12, if physically traveling is possible and if time shenaningans affects the whole of the universes and not just the one concerned universe, then they are not spatio-temporally separate, which is now a criteria for them to be considered as a multiple tier 2 structure and not 1.
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Keep other verses out of this. Go discuss this on walls or on the Fire Force Thread instead.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 9,073
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true let me take it to his wall, edit this post to remove the unnecessary part please
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It seems like your argument relies on the fact that a space time can’t be inside another space time can you tell me why that is?
I’m not gonna keep repeating my argument but can you explain why a space time can’t be inside a space time other than that can’t happen
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it is not that it can't be inside another, but the default assumption is that it isn't, since two space times have their own separated temporal axis and spatio dimension, they wouldn't normally be inside another space time
tl,td: just that the default assumption is that different space times are separated
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This seemed like a good point to me. Any rebuttals on this?
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That assumption would make sense but have you ever heard of time rings?
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i don't see how does that relate to anything, hit creates a pocket dimension with the time he stores, how is this even remotely relevant?
yeah what about them
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Because that dimension is visibly shown to be in U7? That’s literally the whole point of this thread.
Limited Space-Time Manipulation (Was able to destroy Hit's pocket dimension)
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it is a dimension that hit creates, it isn't of any universe, it is his particular dimension that he creates with the time he stored whenever he wants to do that technique
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also can someone please do this?
it is kind of essential to have anything done with this thread
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The thing that branches over timelines making an exact replica
edit: Also that reminds me don’t we have to give Kami Dende and Shenron Universal range? Kami and Dende Universal range for the RoSaT (Universal+ Range If this downgrade gets accepted for Kami and Dende) and Universal range for Shenron via wish granting
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yeah, what about it?
probably, the scale will be done in a later thread, this is about cosmology
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There will be no demotion, this will soon be closed and they will use all tests with different space-time, as stated in the supreme admin comment above, commenting here now is just a distortion of the CRT.
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idk where did you get that, ant just gave a sugestion, this thread is far from over and we need more staff evaluation to reach a consensus, this is how things work on this site, stop trying to rush it
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the evaluation has already been closed, there was no consensus, you can see it by reading the admin's comment above, even AKM thinks the same thing as us, this topic was practically rejected.
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each branching timeline has a RoSaT
also the vote tally should have griffin as neutral and ant as agree next time that’s updated
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1 akm has given no opinion on this thread so far, ddm only showed some of his past comments on it and then i asked about them for clarity, he has work to do and didn't had time to answer, we have to wait
2 3 staff agree and 2 disagree, having no consensus means that we need to achieve one, since the note that makes the individual universes low 2-C doesn't apply anymore as of the last threads, so even if this was rejected(it isn't) it would still need a staff consensus on what the new justification would theoretically be, of course this thread would need more staff evaluation first before deciding anything
3 idk what you mean by "the evaluation is closed" this is not how things work around here, the division in staff is not big, and both sides have given extensive evidence on their side since the thread started, so with a summary both the staff that already voted and that will still vote can have a easier time evaluating this thread, since most staff are incredibely busy and don't have the time and energy to read a 4 page long thread, so a summary solves the problem
again stop trying to rush this thread, this is not things work, we need more staff
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Also AKM agrees with Universo 7 being low 2-C
https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-cosmology-revision.148648/post-5449053
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